How is bunnyhopping supposed to be fun?

...

i'm pretty much bad at old school shooters and still know you're full of shit if that kills your thumb

It takes skill and it's quick enough that it doesn't interfere with the speed of the gameplay and doesn't feel clunky. It's the equivalent of doing a Hadouken motion in Street Fighter.

What I also like about it is that there is also varying degrees of skill. Even if you figure out how to do it and can do it consistently, you won't automatically be as good at it as everyone else, since many of them have smoother mouse movements and such to maximize their speed. It feels really really good to finally get the motion down and be rewarded with that boost in speed and knowing that you still have more to learn. If you could just "hold button to bunnyhop" then it would kill all that and make it boring. The skill needed and the possibility of failure is what makes it so fun.

...

...

i dont see whats special about it, you are just jumping around while shooting

casuals fags get mad because some cant even move and shoot at the same time

Its not hard to do, that isnt the point, the point its that its just dumb and repetitive after a while.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT

I can put out 1,000 Hadouken inputs in a row without failure.

Bunnyhopping is NOT that simple.

...

pretty much this

opinion discarded
youtube.com/watch?v=sSbiQZndXto

Jumping with mouse makes the mice feel tiny

Bunnyhopping is the wavedashing of first person shooters. Prove me wrong.

OI EM LAUGHING

OP didn't ask "what's fun about going fast and shooting people going fast?", he asked "what's fun abotu bunnyhoping?"
If the game removed bunnyhoping and simply increased everyone's default movespeed to the triple or more, would the game be different in any meaningfull way?
If the entire point of bunnyhoping is to go faster than everyone else, that's just saying you want an advantage over other people and you want it as a reward of whatever autistic movements you make with your mouse (or scripts, LOL). You are not interested in playing on an equal field with your oponents, you just want to pubstomp.

Here's a good mental exercize. Imagine that everytime you want to shoot, before you LClick, you gotta press R first. If you don't, you don't shoot at all. This adds nothing to the game and doesn't even make it any more interesting but it still requires a little bit of skill to time R and LClick to maximize your firing speed.
If that's too simple to you, then you gotta press R, F and V in that specific order with less than 0,5 seconds between each keypress before you can fire as well. That would require somewhat more skill than simply pressing the mouse button but it still doesn't add anything to the game or makes it more fun or interesting.
Do the same exercize but instead, the result of correctly inputing those keys is triple damage. You can still cause damage with your guns but if you press this combination of keys in a certain order and time before you fire, you deal 3 times the damage you normally would!
It rewards skillfully inputing an attack command so it makes sense, no?

At the end of the day, bunnyhoping is not fun. Going fast is. And if bunnyhoping is a requirement to go fast in your videogame, a lot of people will dump it for games where they can just go fast from the get go.

Streamlining every mechanic from a game is cancer user and lowering the bar just makes players lazier and games shallower.

With bunnyhopping you change elevation, and it's fun to see yourself clear obstacles with well timed hops

Also it makes you harder to hit, and all enemies harder to hit because a jumping target is harder to hit than one moving in a straight line because the arc is a fun mechanic to account for with the momentum of it.

If you bunnyhop into knee-high obstacles because you're hopping incorrectly, you'd just have a far less entertaining game than having to jump when you reach the obstacles.

Also you made a fucking argument for getting over the challenge of having to press "R F and V to shoot", which in my opinion, would be fun if everyone had to do it - meaning the game would be really fast paced and stressful, inducing fun.

It really is.

Here's a classic.

And overcomplicating them makes for better games?
There's both a lower and an upper limit to how complex you can make a game while still keeping it fun and interesting, not to mention there's different ways to make games more complex but also more fun instead of simply more complex but not more fun at all.

4X games often feature different types of terrains that give your units some kind of bonus. Increasing the amount of terrains adds variations to the game and increases the amount of options you have, making the game more fun.
But if instead of a "Forest Tile", you make 256 variations, each for a different type of tree and all have a small difference to them, that's just being obtuse. You're still adding complexity to the game but not making it more fun.

That's a good argument for high speed and jumping around, but not a good one for why the first should be limited by the second.

Most people don't play games to be induced into stress. Much on the contrary.

jumping should totally fuck up your aim in every FPS so this shit wouldn't be viable.

Bunny hopping is by no means complicated, at it's core it is just timing jumps to carry momentum. Any retard can figure that out and with a little bit of practice do it.

CS zombie modes had bunny-hopping while crouching
This ruined all human spots since what would be a slow crawl for the zombie was a 3 second jumping with barely being slowed by bullets.

I'm talking more among the lines of rocket jumping or any sort of advanced movement mechanics FPS have, not pointless clutter like your trees example.
If you remove rocket jumping and anything hard from TF2 you'd end up with crap like Overwatch.

I want you to consider something really quick here. The person you are answering asked "why people like bhopping".
Assuming there's 10 people per server, you just posted a video about 1 guy having fun with bhopping at the expense of the other 9.
Meaning only 10% of people on that server actually enjoy bhopping.

If that was a server where EVERYONE was doing it, I'm sure everyone would enjoy it, but it wasn't. The other 9 players all expect everyone else to move with a certain speed and their ability to predict someone else's position depends on that knowledge. And the 10th guy completely screwed it all.
This is the equivalent of someone joining a Chess match and playing with Checker rules.

The question here is not how hard it is but rather how fun it is. I had some fun in Painkiller thanks to it but I never though the mechanic that gave me that speed was fun, it was the speed itself that was fun.

If it's that simple to do, why do people need scripts?
If it's that simple to do, why do people claim it's "skillz"?
If it's that simple to do, why have it in the first place?

Overwatch has rocket jumping

Knowing the fact that i have to share this board with casuals like you makes me sick.

You see user, fun is subjective. So what I might think is fun you may not. And there is no understanding we can come to.

As for if it's simple shit. Why not add extra depth to your game, even if it means adding a simple mechanic? Why do you NOT want depth in your games? Do you want shit like pokemon go where that is absolutely no depth or substance to the game at all but is massively loved by normalfags?

Oh please. In a game that only featured soldiers, that would be neat but in TF2 where other classes simply can't compete with his mobility, it's a terrible mechanic. It just makes the second toughest class in the game with the biggest burst damage potential the fastest one as well.

And yet again, the same question remains. Is the autism with angles and crouching on air fun? Or is flying into the air and shooting rockets from above that's actually fun?

Both, getting better and better and perfecting your skills and watching yourself improve is it's own reward, you can just skip it if you want to anyway not everyone out there is a bunny hopper in pubs after all.

I want depth in the right points, not some mockery of depth so the game can pretend it's actually deeper than it really is.
Counter Strike isn't deep, all guns are a revolver with different levels of accuracy, damage and firing speed. Speed is irrelevant expect to get the drop on someone else since the entire game revolves on seeing someone before he sees you and killing him before he can react. This is why instant kill weapons take the spot or why bunnyhoping stops the moment you see someone.

On the other hand I have UT2K4 where every gun has it's use and time (yes, even the BioGu- okay, maybe not all), it has 2 different fire modes and movement is about prediction and map awareness, not keyboard fondling.

it may be a bad mechanic, but nerfing things as to strip down a competitive player's advantages is a bad game.

Bunnyhopping is fun because it is one of the only ways that a video game has captured the feeling of mastering the motions of one’s own body.
Bunnyhopping goes well with fps’ specifically because it is very similar to the skill required to accurately hit people. Pointing in the general direction and firing is equivalent to running, and estimating where enemies will be and aiming for their heads is equivalent to planning a route and bunnyhopping. The more advanced plays both have a larger payoff and are more risky to do. You don’t see people complaining about having headshot multipliers to reward more skilled players, so I don’t get why people complain about bunnyhopping.
If your argument against bunnyhopping is that it is unfair to people who can’t do it, then you might as well give every player an aimbot so that the people who can’t aim can have fun too.

You know user, you can summarize every game up to make it sound dumb and depth less.

I could easily say all UT2K4 is killing the other guy first by seeing him first and then camping armor and the good weapons so you can keep chain killing them. Also there are plenty of ways to instagib someone in UT2K4.

And for my last bit before I go off to bed, I will say this. Depth prolongs a game and builds a community. A lot of people play pokemon, however 90% of them fuck around in the main story portion of the game and then stop shortly after beating it. The autists that keep playing the game, that talk to other people about t heir interest and bounce ideas off of each other and play each other.

This goes for countless games, fighting games, melee, GS games, old arena shooters, amongst others.

If you want a game that is popular for a little while after launch and then dies off you invest everything into presentation and marketing. If you want your game to be played 20 years from now by die hard hands you add depth and reward skill. However, it's okay to not invest your life into these games, you can just play your pokemon casually, you can just play your story mode in fighting games, but asking for removal of features KILLS game in the long term. Look at melee vs brawl, brawl was dead 2 years after it came out, melee is stronger than ever 15 years after release.

Phoon would be disappointed in you, user.

You can still kill people in games that use headshot multipliers without shooting the head though, and learning how to land headshots a good chunk of the time both takes less time investment and has a greater return on that investment than dissecting a map to find bhopping points, then mashing a button/rebinding a button to your scroll wheel to compensate for the weakness of the flesh.

Save us all some time and just admit to your pubstomping addiction.

TF2 rocket jumping was good when it was a trade-off between positioning and health.
Valve broke it to hell with the current state of the katana/conch/black box combo that makes soldiers able to fly around for as long as they want since they can just regenerate through all the self-inflicted damage.

The depth in Counter Strike doesnt come from the guns, it comes from the maps

maps and teamplay strategy.
Depth from quake/unreal comes from map control ,amazing reflexes and 'reading' your opponent.

Stay mad, you just can't kill them because they're bad

Also what the fuck, do you think they're actually invincible because of these weapons? Because you're talking like it. And if you say they ARE invincible I'm going to laugh.

you're bad*

...

Scroll wheel is reserved for shooting, ya dummy

you gotta go fast

Mastering an exploit is not mastering the game.

Especially if you have an ass like pic related

I guess that explains why I only ever saw them in payload and plr servers.
I also haven't played the damn game in 3 months, so there's that too.
I also play pyro because I like to burn things in vidya, and regen just shits all over pyros.

For starters, there is absolutely no reason bhop shouldn't be in every single player game. Most people won't even know it's there, but those who will would appreciate it. It makes for more dynamic gameplay, less boring walks and exciting speedruns.

As for multiplayer it shouldn't be left overlooked. If it's too easy to pull off it will be mandatory (look Team Fortress Forever, they even capped the max speed). If it's too hard people will bitch about bhoppers, but to be fair the skill gap between them usually is already so big that they would get their ass kicked even through "normal" means.
Personally, I think it should be hard, so it is just another skill. If I remember, L4D2 was hardest to bhop, pre updates that cucked bhop CS:S being second. People rarely hoped there.

TL;DR devs cucking that skill cap so kids don't cry. Look how there are no CSGO players that stand out now. Because the game doesn't let you.

I'm going to just throw my opinion into here. I was a nintendo babby for most of my life, and I didn't get into computer games until I moved out of my parents' place. First game I played with bhopping was Fortress Forever, and let me tell you, it is possibly one of the most fun experiences I've ever had with movement in any game ever. The feeling of precisely controlling your character to achieve insane acceleration is like no other, combined with conch and rocket jumps I feel like a god. It's like my speed is my powerlevel, and every well placed rocket or grenade jacks me up another supersaiyan form. You're on the edge, because if you deviate from course or make a mistake, you could potentially lose all of your speed. I've played other games with the "simplified movement" that you're talking about. Overwatch is a good example. Pharah's jet jumps and automatic flying are not nearly as fun and versatile as a well placed rocket coming off a perfect crouch jump. I don't feel like I've done anything beyond pressing a button. Same deal with Tracer's warps. Yeah you go fast, but it's not the fast that makes it fun, it's the risk you're taking by putting your skill to the test in order to harness FAST. You're argument is the same as
Which yeah, it would be simpler, but that's not the fun of it.
One other thing I would like to mention is that bhopping is not nearly as hard as you make it sound. I was able to learn it in less than an afternoon, along with other advanced movement techniques like rocket jumping. You're way smarter than you give yourself credit dude, people no smarter than any of us are flying fighter jets and controlling missiles with precision to make top quake players blush. I think you just lack something that turns a lot of people away from high skill competitive games, and that is lack of drive and aggression.
Isn't that the point of a game? To gain an advantage over others? Next you'll tell me being able to aim properly is cheating.

My guess is that this is a similar dilemma to people who played MGR, but hate Devil may Cry because it requires more time and effort to get good at it. Yeah they could maybe do something basic with dmc, but they dont want to play it for hours and hours to find tiny details and strategies that only the most obsessed of players would even employ.
It perfectly justifiable to say that you dont want to put in the time and effort to actually get good at an advanced technique for a game. (Even though bunny hopping is fairly easy and not too hard to fuck up.) My problem though is when they complain about it. If your complaining about people beating you out because of something like this and yet you've resigned yourself to not trying to improve; your the problem, not them. Although as a counter point I think we can all agree bunny hopping does breed some cockiness when your doing well with it. And that will cause some people to get pissed off if a player is just being a dick.

To put bluntly to you.
Something like this adds a skill gap to fps's. A genre where the skill gap is actually a pretty short climb with any extra climbing to become a master just being some extremely trivial or offer up only a tiny advantage.
Saying bunny hopping doesnt add depth to an fps is like saying sauerkraut doesn't add to a hot dog. You might not like it, but it certainly is good.

It's shit

...

...

Why the fuck should one gimp themselves because "other people weren't having fun"? Should everyone just win? Should they all get participation trophies too? Oh wait, they DO get participation trophies in a form of skin crates!
Id's jezd a gaym, why yu heff to be mad?

I've never learned to bunny hop (yes, I'm a retard), but I was still pretty decent with my aim and reaction time and I was reportedly reported for "hacking" more than once. Does that mean I have to stop being good and stop checking all the corners just because somebody else is a salty lil' bitch?

Go play bowling with bumpers, you sissy little bitch.

Does it? I know it has mine jumping, but I don't think I've seen Pharroh do it, since she has a jet pack.

Should of read the whole thread before replying. Son, I'm afraid you may be retarded.

She has a concussion blast which knocks both you and other players around. You can only use it every 20 seconds though and since the jetpack decelerates you none of that momentum can be carried very far.

because it allows you to go fast, and i *like* going fast

depth doesnt always make for good games. they could come up with a more interesting movement system than something born out of a glitch. it looks and feels stupid

says you

tribes did it

The Skiing in tribes was actually born out of a glitch. Bunny hopping would make players move at frictionless speeds so they made it a thing in later games.

The sprint button in most modern shooters is more depth than bhopping, since it's an actual decision to make(give up shooting to go faster), rather than an unnecessary dexterity check.

There's none of significance.

so they refined it and made it an actual mechanic. id like to see something like that done with bunny hopping.

...

A jontron reaction video isn't really helping your argument user

That may subjectively be true, but you can't deny the double dubs, friendo.

It's gay as fuck in most games that are going for some level of realism. I dropped Heroes & Generals when I realized it was largely a bunch of bunny jumping eurotrash. Otherwise it's fun as fuck if jumping is employed properly like in UT.

I much prefer having an involved method of going fast then just press a button and hold w

Well. I guess in a very general-ized way if your think into the vast possibilities of situations that can happen in a fps, sure. Maybe. But your still dramatically over thinking things. is right here. Jontron video aside.

decision making is interesting game design, bunny hopping takes away more than it adds.

How is it a decision? You're either not in combat and sprinting or are in combat and not sprinting.

You wanna maybe cement your argument instead of just throwing it out there?

as I have already said,

bhopping is a a stat check to pass: can you, or can you not do it.
There is no depth added to the decision making process or any additional options presented to the player(unless it opens a new path, which usually requires you exploit the geometry), you just gain an advantage based on dexterity.

sprinting in a modern shooter is a decision to make:
do I forgo the ability to shoot in order to move faster?
when do I make that trade? ect.

obscure/complex inputs are not depth

...

meanwhile youve presented complicated" execution as depth with no explanation, but sure. it all but removes the element of positioning and circumvents a lot of intended game design. everything must now revolve around this dominant mechanic, cutting the game in half

...

Your dick is stupid and you are a gay.

bhopping is an exploit in the vast majority of games it appears in, so it's not a 'fundamental'

yes, holding shift has more depth, because usually, it forces you to lower your gun, or consumes a resource

there isn't: if you can do it, you do it, there's usually no drawback
any additional decision points you gain are based on compounding the exploit of unintended movement with exploiting level geometry you're not meant to use(which requires the geometry to be there in the first place)

what the fuck?

These are the most retarded posts I've seen on Holla Forums in a long time.

The thing is that if you bind bunnyhopping to just one key as if it were some kind of sprinting function, it loses all its versatility once it becomes hardcoded. While the act of repeatedly jumping in itself is as simple as it gets to the point where games like Xonotic just do it for you for bonus speed.

Bunnyhopping might be easy, but actual CONTROL and turning while bhopping takes timing and exercise to pull off correctly. There are no 'press X to strafeturn' buttons in Xonotic, it's all pulled off using basic FPS movement keys. Though I suppose everything you see in this video is not depth at all.

meant for

I think bhoppers are faggots but why not? It's a technique like another

It's not. It's about exploiting a something that gives you an advantage at the cost of your keyboard. This coming from someone who "mastered" bunnyhopping. I first learned how to do it in half-life, even then I thought that it was a shitty movement boost. It's not a skill, let alone a essential one. It's just pointless keyboard fondling to go faster than people who aren't autistic.

...

Never minded bhopping. Just made it easier for me to lead the spastic little fags on a lot of games.

ah so you want rpg elements in your shooters too?

Bunnyhopping isn't an ingame skill you can master, it's keybinding. You bind crouch and jump on the mouse, you call that skill?

What?

Again, watch this video.

well if youre going to use false equivalence as your entire argument i figure i might as well play along

The other 9 should grow a set and learn to bhop as well as guy #10

What?

git fucking gud

Why you shouldn't?

Have you played games that doesn't give you speed boost from actual jumping? So you jump only to keep momentum, and airstrafe to gain it.

That guy you replied to reminded me of some screenshots from halfchan mods or something, stating that fun shouldn't be had at expense of others.

...

What, quake? I'm not talking about games that depend on you knowing how to bunnyhop. I'm talking about games that don't need it yet somehow have it. quake is an exception, because you fucking need it. In something like HL deathmatch it was a borderline exploit.

My point is that it doesn't introduce any depth to the decision making.

My entire argument is that bhopping is complexity, rather than depth, not that it doesn't offer an advantage.

This user makes a persuasive argument. I agree.

You mean the multiplayer mode where people zipped across half the map through taujumping?

The very same maps that aren't made for bhopping yet people still did it. Tight corridors and open spaces are not made for bhopping, because you would have hit a wall if you didn't strafe away from it, but if you strafed you lost momentum.

Rocket jumping in tf2 is a gimmick that has to be learned too. With gunboats you practically don't loose significant amount of health. I'm not even talking about beggars…

Holy god the summer is hitting hard. I know it's usually just a "cancer of the week" kind of thing, but this place used to be better.

you move at a higher speed, but it makes it harder for you to navigate and aim
sure, a fun exploit that ANYONE can do with enough practice; there are plenty of bunny hopping tutorials and even servers dedicated to train bhopping, alongside servers that forbid/disable bhopping
bullshit, because it ADDS the element of spacial awareness, which is key to positioning. You have to know where you'll land, you have to know where you'll wind up, you have to know where to look when you zip past a certain doorway, etc… Unless, of course, you're saying that bunnyhoppers are kicking your camping ass. Camping is not "positioning" in vidya. It's sitting in a spot and using only one hand to play the game by standing still.
if it's built into the game, intentionally or otherwise, and you don't need any tools other than your hands to perform it, it's a skill.

You people are fucking retarded, honestly.

theres decision making involved, youre paying with health and ammo and in the case of gunboats a weapon. its not just free mobility

This entire thread should have ended with the first reply being
GIT GUD

but it doesnt take it away does it?
this is an idiotic point. why would you not know where youre going to end up? spacial awareness isnt a thing, you already know the map like the back of your hand.
the entire game is changing to accommodate a glitch how is that not cancer?

You wouldn't know about it, unless you saw someone else do it, or you found it by accident. It depends on your fucking keybinds being easy to spam continually. It is not something that takes skill to master ingame, it's something that you learn how to do in under 2 minutes.

You are fucking retarded, honestly.

What decisions making?
I'm not talking about just rocket jumping on people heads, I'm talking about flanking - the only potential game changing decision to be made. Because ether you rj or bhoping, if you are in front of people they will be expecting you (at least they should) no matter whether you move around quickly or slow. The only place they expect you not to be is their back and that's where game braking comes from. You can rj across open map at no cost (see badwater), most enemy team can do is send people back.

You don't gain any advantage from bhoping/rj'ing in combat itself, you gain it with positioning. If you play against decent players they will take you down fast, no matter if you go fast or slow.

no, and you don't teleport around the map, do you?
can you not?

It does take a while to learn and even more time to master. It's not impossible to learn, so it's not a binary "speedcheck" nor is it easy enough to just start doing it from the get go.

You people are making up arguments just to not feel so fucking casual.

...

youre the one using spacial awareness as part of your argument

how in the name of god emperor is spacial awareness casual?

you said bunnyhopping adds the element of special awareness which is nonsense, nothing changes in that regard. you are making up arguments

bhopping doesn't have to be fun, it's just a matter of skilled movement

you never played any arena fps have you? It's like any other way of getting better at the game: you get better results if your skill is higher and you can pull off what other's can't.

There's nothing to it, you're either better than most or not.

20XX.jpg

Which 20XX, the Early Access title or what

You are moving at a higher speed than usual, you need to know the layout of the map and every edge/physical object on a new level. Plus, when you're playing against other bunnyhopppers, you have to account for their speed as well.
You have to GIT GUD to KEEP UP.
So step it up.

cheeky cunt

is bunnyhopping allowed at the professional level?

Sasuga JoJo scum.

yes

oh you dont say

yes, I do
what of it?

I will never get over how stupid wave dashing looks.

I like and use bunny hopping, but it started its life and an exploit/glitch in quake, and most games never even do anything really interesting with it outside of modders and custom maps. I can only think of one series that actually look it to its logical conclusion.

Isn't that game suppose to be a "realistic shooter".

Thats looks like an exploit man.

I mean, if there was money on the line, and there are no tournament rules against it, I would do it, but as far as design wise, I would patch that shit.

i bet you couldn't even bunnyhop, could you?

i'll fuck up both you AND your team after i'm done bunnyhoping, fag.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Lad…

...

I have a hard time believeing that they ever intended that.
If they did, they did a terrible job.

realism is a theme dontcha know

On the PC, they're CS players
On the XBox, they're Halo players
On the PS4, they're Halo players

This whole thread is just:
"bhopping is not fun. Going fast is fun but autistic keybinds isn't"
"nuh-uh, you're just a scrub that can't do it"
"I can do it, I just don't find it fun or interesting"
"nuh-uh, I bet you can't really do it"
as well as:
"bhopping is very easy to do, anyone can master it in a few minutes"
"but it's also a very difficult skill to master and it means the difference between good players like me and scrubs like you".

It's constant denial, assumptions and double-standards. Bhopping isn't special, anyone can do it. It's just not fun for the great majority of people and the fact that you can pubstomp with it doesn't change anything.

Or alternatively

Hey, you can have fun any way you want, just don't go complaining later that nobody wants to play with you. Autism is your problem and others don't have to put up with it if they don't want to.

It's because they're exactly as retarded as you can see by reading through this thread. They will mindlessly bitch that any developed game doesn't have enough content, yet still spend hours and hours mastering something exactly this fucking stupid.

Then they'll flip out if you explain the hypocrisy and spampost:
As if everyone on Holla Forums just happens to, in groups, pile onto specific retarded opinions and never ever comes across any of the threads which contradict these opinions.

The Holla Forums poster is a cattle, truly.

...

Why do you read posts you haven't read or that are written above a reading level you can actually understand? Wouldn't it be better to just not respond rather than display your dearth of comprehension?

...

Git Gud

Nigger you're all playing the same game with the same rules. Git gud you god damn shitters.

By that logic, if a game features cheatcodes, it's perfectly okay to use them if you want to win the game.
Is impulse 101 a skillfull game mechanic now?

Surely you have the mental capacity to differentiate between a CHEAT CODE and a skilful movement mechanic? Right?

Of course I do, the questions is, do you have it as well?

And one more thing:

We need an instant headshot button in FPS games. If the entire point of headshots is to kill faster than everyone else, that's just saying you want an advantage over other people and you want it as a reward of whatever autistic movements you make with your mouse (or scripts, LOL). You are not interested in playing on an equal field with your oponents, you just want to pubstomp.

What are you implying?

Bunnyhopping is a core part of the game experience built into the game engine and is the same for every player by default. Cheat Codes and console commands are not, if you had to use Impulse 101 to finish Half Life 2 then you didn't finish Half Life 2.

Sure, let's see you get close to any time record on a defrag map.

There is an official Bunnyhopping tutorial in Quake Live, as well as Rocket Jumping. They are both offiical aspects of the game, you're just mad because you're bad.

Because it makes me instantly better than you.
I don't like learning new rules or playing against people who know how to play the game. I prefer the game have a nonsensical fiction-breaking barrier that new players need to be taught to create a rank of players who cannot feasibly compete against me.

When games have a way of going fast that anyone can instantly understand, it takes away the only thing that separates me from the bottom of the barrel, and I refuse to fight anyone who isn't beneath me.

Quake Live has autohop it should be exempt from discussion.

Games need more skill based movement and casual faggots like you are ruining it.

The autohop is also inferior to doing it yourself. It's like the difference between automatic and manual transmission in most racing games.

This is an argument against special moves in Fighting games.

Autohop is too easy. I don't want to learn faster or more aggressive routes to beat new players.
I want to see them fuck up their hop, so I can grab my weewee and cum on my cat.

They should have a button in Racing games that automatically puts you on the ideal racing line. Racing lines are bullshit that autists use to get an unfair advantage against anyone who doesn't know them.

They should have a button in RTS games that automates the perfect build order. Build orders are bullshit that autists use to get an unfair advantage over anyone who doesn't know them.

Remember how in Diddy Kong Racing there was a glitch where you go faster if you mash the gas button?
That is what this is like. It is a nonsensical, fiction-breaking glitch that completely breaks away from any natural competitive intuition and ruins the game.

They should have a button in RPG games that automatically gives you the perfect stat and skill progression. Optimal stat and skill choices are bullshit that autists use to get an unfair advantage against anyone who doesn't know them.

So I got Civ V during the summer sale and finally got around to playing it. And I have to say, I prefer Endless Legend way more. I don't understand the appeal I guess. Am I missing something or do i have to play it longer to get "into" it?

Endless legend is just way more comfy and fun to me.

4x Thread since I didn't see any other.

See:

Bunnyhopping as well as rocket jumping was left in Quake intentionally by the way, look it up. Also, maps in Quake III are built around those two mechanics (vid related is the most famous example) and despite being almost 20 years old people still play the game to this day. You're just mad because you are bad.

And then they added autohop to make the controls better, but then new players could at least make from one end of a straight line to another as fast as you, so it's instantly shit because FUCK learning to actually navigate the map in aggressive and thoughtful ways.

Actually, you can STILL go faster than a newb in quake live in a straight line because acceleration comes from properly aiming your straing.

Niggers like you are why there are participation trophies.

autohop is way slower than manual though, you can only reach 600ups at max speed, which is the equivalent of one manual strafejump. You don't even understand anything about the game you are trying to discuss that isn't surface level. This is the equivalent of a braindead flowchart Ken player from SFIV thinking his opinion on anything is worth jack shit.

Here's some movement tips for TFC and most Goldsrc games.

You ain't missing shit.
I tried to get into Endless Legend, but I just couldn't. May have had something to do with it not running very well on the living fossil of a GPU I was using back then

The thing with all your examples is that they all have a measurable tier system, so there's more grades than just "proficient" and "not proficient."
To use your build order example, there's plenty of area between "12-year-old making decisions based on flavor text and unit pictures" and "Korean Starcraft pro."
The problem with bhopping, at least in Source engine games, is that there is very little area between "knows how to bhop" and "sanic the CT."
This is the same sort of thing that made embed related the first result after typing "demoman" into youtube.
High skill floors aren't fun, especially when faggots confuse them with high skill ceilings.

That is wrong. Nobody who figures out bunnyhopping will be as fast as those who have been doing it for years. That isn't even touching on map knowledge, which is just as important for bhopping as it is in racing games. There is still a massive gap in skill once you get the hang of bhop, that's part of what makes it interesting, it isn't automatic, you can fuck it up completely, you can do it terribly, okay, amazing, etc, there is a huge potential for failure. Compare that to "hold button to win" which is so unbelievably boring and mindless in comparison. What you want is "Press button: something awesome happens. Button. Awesome. Button. Awesome". You seem suited for modern Bioware games, so fuck off and play those instead of trying to ruin a genre of games you don't even fucking like. Not every game needs to cater to you, get over yourself.

jojo is that you? Back to the halo threads you filthy casual

...

Wait a minute, what's the source behind this one?

It's funny to me that you mention that because no person in the FTG complains or brags about inputs for specials. It's not even something worth of discussion. Wanna know why? Because it's nothing compared to everything else. To the positioning, the timing, the probing, the teching, the shuffles and all the techniques and mind games involved.
Because perfoming the input to activate a move is a negligible part of the game compared to everything that comes before and after that move.

No one in the FTG will brag about how well they can perform their hadokens and how many they can pull per second. They care more about performing it to disrupt the oponent or to force him into the air so they can follow with a shoriuquen. They care more about the actual depth the game has than literal autism.
Meanwhile, FPS "pro" players like to pretend that inputing your jumps in this specific way to gain speed is somehow "depth" to the game and interesting at all.

By the way, I still don't have an answer here, which is it after?
Is bhopping something simple that anyone can learn easily and therefore has no excuse not to use?
Or is it a very difficult technic that takes years to master and only proleet players can use it perfectly?

Is it only a simple technic when you are trying to convince scrubs it's not hard at all to learn, they are just that bad and need to gitgud?
Or is it only a very difficult and masterful technic when you're the one performing it?

If it's that simple, why are you bragging or praising it? Do you brag about aiming and walking at the same time as well?
If it's that difficult, why are you requiring every player to learn it before they can play with you? And why are you complaining nobody wants to play with you afterwards?

Which is it, niggers? :^)

I like that video a lot. My favorite part is when he shoots that guy.

They should have a button in Racing games that autodrifts for you. No possibility of spinning out at all, no need for countersteering or proper throttle control, it will automatically stop the drift when you are lined up with the track again as well. Proper drifts are just bullshit that autists use to get an unfair advantage against anyone who doesn't know them.

Nice binary mentality you have there. Anything more extreme than 2 possibilities is just too complex for you to handle, thanks for revealing this bit of info about yourself to everyone.

"easy to learn, hard to master"

Have you ever heard of this before? Is it too hard for you to figure out by yourself? Would you like for me to walk you through it very slowly?

The point of racing games is to race, the point of shooters is to shoot. All other mechanics in their respective genre are secondary. No matter how important they are, they should never replace or outrank the main one.

You are just posting a false equivalency, the equivalent in a shooter to autodrift is an autoaim.
The equivalent to bhopping in Mario Kart is a way to get double or triple the powerups other players get. Powerups should never replace actual racing but if you constantly have one up, at some point they become more important than actually racing, defeating the original purpose of the game.

I don't see it treated in any other way by autists, though. Everytime someone can't bhop, he's a terrible scrub that should unistall the game. And everytime someone can bhop, he's a god and we should all suck his dick. Direct your insults to the ones doing the binary thinking please.

Bunnyhopping is cancer and I'm glad games don't do it anymore.

...

...

Nice bait, friend. :^)

There you go with your immensely simple minded mentality again.

Bunnyhopping doesn't replace or outrank the shooting. Bhopping better than anyone in the entire world won't mean jack shit if you can't hit anything.

By going fast, which is a huge part of classic FPS.

This only happens when said person gets butthurt about his failure and whines about bhopping being a broken shitty glitch despite being an official part of the game. Again you oversimplify because any semblance of complexity makes your head hurt.

The only time I see people going this crazy for someone who bhops is for those insane Defrag videos, which do deserve some respect. Again you oversimplify because any semblance of complexity makes your head hurt.

Read up on bunnyhopping and rocket jumping, both were discovered during game development and both were left in the game despite being easy to remove. also:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill

Thanks, friendo. I see you are stilling learning about what the word irony means. :^)

There you go, overcomplicating things in an exercise of sophism, thinking you can get away with false equivalencies.

Never said it did, did I? But it offers you a massive advantage, giving you better positioning, map control and you are a much harder target to hit.
If it did not made it harder to hit you at all, it would be mostly redundant but that's not what happens.
In fact, some kind user was gracious enough to give us an example here:
You gonna tell me that the other team still has a decent chance to hit him except by blind luck while he is moving at that speed?
You gonna tell me that bhopping didn't completely replace the rules of engagement the rest of the players was expecting?
You gonna tell me that going that fast doesn't invalidate the rest of the combat in that game?

What part in FPS implies speed or movement at all? It's first person and you shoot things, speed need not even be a thing here, or movement for that matter. Railroad shooters in first person exist after all.
It's a huge part but it's never (or rather should never) be more important than the whole "shooting" part.

:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^)

I've never seen more buzzwords in a single post in my entire life

Such us? Honestly, I'm curious now. If you think sophism is a buzzword, that would be ironic

Why would I directly reply to such an autist?

Yes, skills tend to do things like this, nobody would use a skill if it offered no benefit.

I literally burst out loud laughing while watching the video. THAT is what you consider impossible to hit? THAT is the speed that you think invalidates the rest of the combat in the game? It is SLOW AS FUCK. Even rookie Quake players would have no trouble at all hitting him moving at that speed. Are you a literal geriatric or something? Oh my god man.

Here's a vid showing the real power of bunnyhopping. Hell it doesn't have to be a Defrag vid either, any tournament level Quake III play would do. You've shown that you have a very simplistic mentality (which is also probably why you can't bhop), that you don't actually understand the game you are criticising and that you have the reflexes of a goddamn slug.

Because you just did, again.

Speedrunning is a thing.

Also:
As I said before, what is irony? Becuase I'm finding that you don't know what it means yet. And while we're at it, let's throw in hypocrisy while we're at it.

do you not know what the word 'directly' means?

You sound like a fag tbh fam.

is this a melee thread?

I guess it takes one to know one, tbh fam.

You replied directly to him, Autismo. You may have not answered his question, but you still replied directly, again.

you just need to get better or something

do you have brain damage or something?

Why would you ask this while directly replying to me?

Do you? You did it not once but twice.

ebin bait, is this the birth of a new copypasta? sucessfull troll is sucessfull! :^)^)^)^)^)

This is a thread where whiny cunts try to convince us a mechanic they devoted large amounts of time to master was truly worth the investment so they can use it in servers with no players because nobody else can put up with their autism.
So yes.

But that's not the point I was making. Literacy is also a skill and somewhat important to play most videogames. But you'd never advocate for literacy to be more important than aiming because that's not the point of the game. Properly lining up shots is more important than reading how much health you have left.
Why is it such a difficult concept to apply this to movement as well? It's important, yes, but it shouldn't be more important than aiming.

Amazing. Let me just grab a video of a pro athelete running at the speed of a train so I can mock you for not gitting gud at marathon.

Thankfully however, that video wasn't about Quake, it was about CS. I have no idea what you hoped to prove with that.

Says the fag that keeps thinking every videogame ever is Quake.
Neither of those players in that video where playing Quake or expecting the kind of speed that's regular there. BHopping was the odd element, not the rule. But you don't understand that because you can't possibly fanthom that some videogames don't feature high speeds or even no bhopping, and yet you'll still say others have "simplistic minds". :^)

If you did not had a "simplistic mind", you'd be able to make your case without resorting to "you're so beneath me" style or "here's a video of someone doing some cool shit, be amazed and shut up".

Jesus christ sometimes I'm amazed at how many retarded people are here, funnily enough I never was actually capable of bhoping myself but at least wasn't retarded enough to think that it was cheating .

autism

It's a part of the game, there's code in it that allows the code to work. Why shouldn't you be allowed to use it?
Because it's not fair? :^)^)^^)^)^
The other player can cheat too! :^)^^)()^(^)

autism

that's YOU dude

did you forget to id hop?

soiled it

SOILED IT

...

Thread should've been closed after this.

It's not more important than aiming. Like I already fucking said being a master bhopper means nothing if you can't hit shit.

I posted it to show just how incredibly fucking slow your supposed "broken" bhopping vid is in comparison. People have no problem playing Quake at the speed present in the video. In other words, you were dead wrong.

Adapting to new situations on the fly is integral to being skilled at video games. Fighting games at their very core are based around "adapt or die". They were just really shit players. I've already shown people have no problem at all playing games at a far far faster pace than the slow as shit garbage you tried to pass off as broken, the fact that it was CS changes nothing.

...

Only reason I don't like it is because tons of fucking faggots use scripts to do it.

I never said you can literally bhop your way to victory, I never even implied you didn't had to aim anymore. But an increase in your ability to hit people requires an extra effort on your oponent to aim and at a certain point, there's more effort involved in aiming because of bunnyhopping then because the default game mechanics. At that point, bunnyhopping became more important than aiming, despite aiming still being a core part of the game.

Got it. When you finnaly realize it's not about the absolute speed of the players but rather the difference between them, the delta, if you'd prefer, you can post moronic videos again.

AYYY

as far as I can tell from taking the time to learn it and do it just now to shut you guys up, bhopping is a some anons here have said, a skill check.
it opens a few new things however, so it does as a small amount of depth to the game as well as an assload of complexity
in the majority of the games its in it is not only not intended but also it overshadows most of the other aspects of the game, so csgo isnt an autistic metagame hitscan instadeath military shooter, its a bhop instadeath military shooter.
it similar to guitar hero or the autism inputs on street fighter or whatever, the main difference is that it cant be bound properly because the mouse seems to be quite integral.
you could also compare it to a "sprint mode" where you cant shoot, it similar because the mouse is being occupied by bhopping so you cant use it to aim.

my conclusion is that in games it was not intended in the original intent of the game is lost (this isnt necessarily bad, for example the idea of counter strike is irredeemably shit and bhopping makes it slightly better) and in games where it is intended there is no real reason to have included it except autism.

Technically, you can still fire while bhopping. Provided you are using hitscan weapons and they are something similar to a railgun, all you gotta do is pass your cursor over someone while bhopping and fire in that moment.
You don't lose your speed, you kill the other guy.

However anything else, miniguns, rocket lauchers, shotguns, plasma guns, all of that does kinda require you to stop and aim.
That's mostly why phoon in that video is using the Deagle and the Awp, guns that kill in a single shot. After he fires them and the other guy is dead, speed is no longer a factor since the fight is over.

Sugar coating a turd. The game should be dead, if bhopping is what keeps it alive, that's just another sin to add to it.

Such a damn shame about that glitch. It's such a fun game to excel out without it.

Oh lol you haven't got a clue. People complain about overly complex movements that only serve as time sinks all the time. Another good analog is the FRC timing window in the Guilty Gear XX series. There's never really been a good reason for the window being so small except to force people to spend hours in training memorizing it. Skills that translate to something you do all the time with no variation are not real depth; they're just barriers to make yourself feel better than other people simply because you had more time on your hands.

Honestly I think the real reason why this thread seems to rustle so many jimmies is because FPSfags actually have to come to terms with the fact that their genre is incredibly shallow.

Git gud

You move fast and it's fun. Not everything is black dicks, you homo.

Oh, I'm aware there are a few expections. I've seen some outragerous shit like Tager in Blazblue having his Instant Kill move needing 2 360 rotations on the sticks before doing it.
And Potenkim in Guilty Gear wasn't much better either.

However, fortunaly those are exceptions. I actually like the concept of masking inputs and how most of them actually make some sense on how they are executed. I even got very good at pulling Dizzy's \ Justice Cannon input in less than a second.

I've never played with the FTG, just with AI on the hardest setting but from what I've seen of videos, most games revolve around spacing and mixing air, mid and low attacks to increase the mental stack of your oponent while diminishing yours.
It's certainly it's own brand of autism, but it sounds a lot more interesting than bhopping.

rustled alright.

Nobody disagrees that moving fast is fun, user. It's quite possibly the best part of those games.
But that doesn't mean bhopping is good, it's result is. Doom didn't need any of that shit for you to go fast and people love it.

Git gud

At what?
You didn't specify this, is it a wildcard type thing where anyone can pick whatever they want?
I think I'll gitgud at RTS or 4X. Or maybe tactical shooters instead. And seeing the dwindling population of bhopping games, I think a lot of other people are gitting gud at other games too instead.
The more's left for you, right? :^)

Git gud

How is drifting supposed to be fun?

How is dribbling supposed to be fun?

Scripts used by faggots aside are cheating, not a actual reason to discredit a mechanic.
Its hard to see it as a bad thing, if it isnt out of place in a simulation or realistic shooter. Since it can bring complexity into movement and combat, principally if the map design is done with this in mind.

In games where bunnyhopping is a thing that is incorporated into the mechanics (and not just there because of the engine) it's about out maneuvering your opponent, in Quake the guy that doesn't bunnyhop will be too slow to get the powerups and the players who do bunnyhop will only have to worry about which powerups that garruntee map dominance. Actual accuracy is secondary at most since the powerups carry you through. For SP it's about easter egg hunting and getting to secrets designed with bunny hopping and rocket jumping in mind (or in Doom Archvile assistance).

Neither and both.

Unlike special move inputs in fighting games, bunnyhopping is something you can do better or worse. It's not a matter of just consistency, it's that some people can actually bunnyhop faster than others, because they can do the inputs more cleanly. It's sort of like hitting the just frame dauro with ramlethal every single time, or getting the clean hit sidewinder with Sol many times consecutively. It's like aiming with higher accuracy with DPS weapons, and if you watch quake tournaments you always hear the announcers remark on how someone's lightning gun fire is practically stuck onto their opponent. If you stick perfectly without wavering you obviously get more damage.

Bunnyhopping is something you can pick up on a basic level in minutes, but it's also something that needs to be finely trained to get the maximum possible benefit out of it.

It's also something that shapes how you move across the map, because you need to time your jumps in different spots to get more or less acceleration to make future jumps and keep up speed.

People brag because it takes intelligence and dedication to bunnyhop well on a master level. Fighting games have a large number of difficult inputs on various characters too, and special moves as simple as shoryuken are the topic of entire threads on this board, bitching about how hard they are to perform. Not to mention that people brag in fighting games about being able to do difficult combos. Combos are not hard to perform, but there are harder ones that are very difficult. Bunnyhopping is much much less mandatory to learn in order to play. It, much like many forms of execution across games, are not necessary to winning on a basic level, only at the highest levels of play. Different players have different skillsets that can compensate for defficiencies in some areas.

Learning crouching MK into fireball is about as easy as learning to bunnyhop on a basic level. Doing combos on a master level is comparable to bunnyhopping on a master level. Games contain various skills that people get better at and grow to compete with each other.

There's no difference. Bunnyhopping is implemented in all games that feature it the same way, through the way the engine limits acceleration based on a vector projection of the current velocity vector onto the desired movement direction versus the maximum movement limit. Bunnyhopping only exists in Quake engine derived games and games built in engines that copy the quake engine's acceleration code. It is either implemented in that one specific way or it isn't.

"incorporated into the mechanics" comes up a lot in these discussions and it doesn't mean anything. It's no more "incorporated" into quake's mechanics than say half life, rage, or counter strike.

Also there's an error in comparing the results of pro matches to more amateur matches, since in pro matches both players will be bunnyhopping, and wins can be more easily predicted by just powerup pickups. In lower level matches the same trends might not hold true and players who bhop less might not strictly be the losers and those who bhop more might not strictly be the winners, because of factors like accuracy and so on. Not to mention that accuracy isn't the only important statistic, because one player might shoot more, or land more damaging shots.

I see you don't see level design as being part of incorporating a game mechanic which is what I am talking about, but since you bring up engines bunny hopping is implemented in two ways the earlier Quake 1+2 where you only needed to push the w key once then just use the a and d keys and strafejumping where you can only really go forward and requires the w key to be held down is more limited movement in Quake 3. Bunny hopping is incorporated in Quake subtly by making the powerups that matter strategically timed and place on the maps designed in such a as to be impossible to get both.

Wrong and I said accuracy is secondary not "unimportant", there are no other factors that matter in Quake multiplayer besides movement and reaction speed, powerups and weapons, finally accuracy in that order. Players who don't bunny hop win because they zigzag, which is what bunnyhopping is an evolution of. You'd lose a lot more but if you didn't at least do that you're superior accuracy means jack shit because the other players move around better then you did and got out of the way. You only need to hit reliably half the time while moving and avoid getting hit while moving to get the best powerups for full map control.

You just described reaction time and accuracy in that order.

...