12 years

Also, TBC is objective proof that
GARITHOS DID NOTHING WRONG

I'd honestly say that TBC was a bigger blow to the game than Wrath. It introduced flying (which trivialized much of the world map since it was poorly implemented without combat or mechanics), ran roughshod over the existing lore and character dynamics, introduced a terrible new map completely divorced from the rest of Azeroth, created a plot line largely self contained away from the kingdoms of the Alliance and Horde, and started us down the train of heroes and leaders going insane so ya gotta kill them.

Wrath of the Lich King at least felt connected to Warcraft III- Draenor was just a sideshow for a couple missions with Illidan and Kael'thas.

TBC was awkward as shit and had more problems than anything with how it threw lore out the window and introduced flying mounts.
Wrath was there purely to dangle Arthas over everyone's heads in a false sense of nostalgia.
Cataclysm was shit. Except for goblins.
Kung-Fu Panda was a further attempt at catering to the furry audience as well as to those asking for a neutral faction.
Warlords was their attempt at making a Pixar movie out of Warcraft 1/2.
Legion is just full-blown fanservice, killing off big names in order to make you and everyone else the leader of a gutted faction with a weapon that was only special because it was rare or unheard of.

You mean taurens, but at least they didn't stick out like a sore thumb like the forsakens.

Night Elves should have been Horde, Forsaken should have been Alliance.

In the latter's case, you'd have a nominal alliance with the rest of the factions, but the Stormwind humans would be constantly trying to find a cure while the Forsaken try to find a way to further the plague. It'd be like a cold war, but within a supposed alliance.

Night Elves just seem to fit well with the Horde, especially since Tauren shared a lot of their outlook. The only point of contention was the Warsong's Clan's logging and that was put to a stop in the RTS.

World of Warcraft was always a shitty game, right off the bat. The series died with the move from RTS to MMO. The only reason any of you have fond memories of it is from nostalgia, playing it at a happier time of your life, and the fact you didn't have a better game to compare it to.

Guild Wars blew it completely out of the water in every regard. It didn't explode in the same way WoW did because it wasn't nearly as casual, and didn't have the advantage of being an older IP with plenty of fans already waiting around. But despite getting a late start, it still managed to keep going. It didn't destroy content, but instead added to it. The Tomb of Primeval Kings and Hall of Heroes are the greatest examples for that.

With the SJW co-opting of ANet for GW2 and the death of Guild Wars, there are no good MMOs left. They're all shit.

Mate, at the time of WoW's release, the biggest MMO was Neverrest. "Casual" at that time meant "not actually a second job."

MMOs are pretty shit, period. My first one was Runescape, back in the days of Classic.

...

I mean casual in the sense of actual gameplay difficult. WoW is easy to the point of monotony, especially when trying to grind for skills or whatever else. Guild Wars was actually the least time consuming because everything was in segregated missions or quests, which meant you could play for hours on end or just for an hour at a time if you waned to.

That's not to say Guild Wars is particularly hard. But it required coordination in order to get things done. You didn't have a raid of 25 people spamming shit based on jobs, you had to coordinate and position. Sometimes the group would be split up to get something done the fastest. Most of all, you could only pull out eight skills at once, so you had to have a synergy with your team to be the most efficient.

The importance of personal player skill versus level meant that at Level 20, while one group of players could have difficulty completing an end-game mission, another could theoretically complete even hard mode variants with just heroes and henchmen by planning everything out in advance.

you what

MMOs are objectively easy games. The only difficulty comes from coordinating unfeasibly large groups of players to do simple tasks.

That and gear checks.

There were not gear checks for Guild Wars. You could get max armor by collecting trophies in an hour at most once you hit the level cap (which you could easily hit without even taking side quests to the main story). Runes and insignias for gear were ridiculously easy to get, and most bosses would drop maxed weapons.

Group sizes were small. The largest party size is an 8-man team, save for two "elite" dungeons that had a 12-man cap instead. And neither of those were the hardest dungeons anyways. You could also select NPC henchmen and heroes to round out the party and handle jobs like healing. Henchmen were pretty useless at the level cap, but heroes were very useful as you could customize the skill bar they had. You would only ever need two real players.

This is the exact point I'm trying to make. All of the other elements you see popping up in MMOs? Guild Wars didn't use them. It was closer to a single-player game or a co-op game than it was an MMO, and as a result, it was leagues ahead of others in the same genre.

The only reason you would ever want to grind in the game would be to get vanity gear, like a pair of gloves that glowed or a weapon that was on fire. That or achievements. Most of the time, there wasn't any reason to give a shit.

I'm also sidestepping the biggest draw of the game, which was PvP. There were a lot of PvP modes available, way more than GW2, and more than any other MMO. You could create a PvP-locked character at the level cap right from the stop, and the whole goal of the game was to use the original PvE campaign as an extended skill tutorial in any event.

Team synergy was much more important. A group of eight players could keep themselves alive. If one died, you could expect a domino effect quite rapidly.

Then what's the point of playing it over a single-player or a co-op game? Especially in the early 2000s- it was much easier to coordinate over LAN or sharing a couch than over early broadband or (God forbid) dial-up.

Holiday events and competitive PvP mostly.

...

casual raider.

Raiding killed WoW.

So basically things that WoW didn't give two shits about. At least not until TBC came and destroyed that too.

If anything, casuals who couldn't raid is what killed WoW.

Sweet baby Jesus no, nelfs are the most cancerous players in wow. No way would I want them in horde. The way it should have been is 4 factions like it was in the rts, but that was way too much work apparently

I thought I was the only one who wanted that.
Also ethereals.

have i got the game for you

don't know why they couldn't have just made it like everquest where different faction players can still play together but have a hard time going to each other's cities or doing their quests.

Blizzard once made an April Fool's Day joke about introducing two-headed ogres controlled by two players at once.
After thinking about what this could be like, I decided that was a fantastic idea if both players took it seriously, but seeing as how online games have taken away more and more freedoms from players in an effort to quash griefing, I know it would never really be done right.

Still, though, the ability to create a joint-character controlled by both you and a friend, twice as large and twice and tough as other characters… That would have been magical.

They killed Cenarius, the patron god of Druids. That seems like a big deal to me.

Go play Heroes of the Storm. There's a character that's exactly that. Sure, you'd have to install that dead piece of trash game, but you'd get exactly what you wanted, right?

it's not even to just prevent griefing. the developers want every single faces to be the same and all boss fights to play out in one way, hence the focus on scripted attack sequences instead of just being big walls of hit points, because that's easier to patch.

See, and that's exactly why WoW was trash. The advantages of an online medium are the ability to gather large numbers of people at once or to have them compete from anywhere in the world. Guild Wars excelled at all single-player elements and honed in on aspects that couldn't be as easily provided to top it off. Perfect MMO.

WoW and everything it's spawned, especially GW2, are abortions that should never have been conceived.

its interesting to see the concept brought to life anyways
reminds me of that mechwarrior on the snes

No one liked to play Horde cause there were no 'pretty' characters. As such, despite having less players, the Horde side was WAY more mature and filled with good players.

Undead were the top played race cause they were the most humanoid looking. As soon as TBC came out, the Alliance / Horde demograph evened out. And both sides went to equal shit.

sever I played on, Aggramar, seriously had a like 4:1 ratio in favor of Alliance. I remember crossroads being locked down most of the time.

...

Undead were most played because they were overpowered in PvP. Their racial traits gave them immunity to a number of incapacitating conditions.

Ah that too. Forgot about that.

I thought the unded were the top played race because they looked the most edgy back then, and we know how much the internet and fagets back then went fucking crazy for being edgelords, as every "xXxSephiroth420xXx" player made obvious.

What is your fucking point? 10 races at launch and they've only added a handful since. By now they should have added a lot more races and classes, and instead they've only added them as gimmicks for new xpacs and they've fuged up the idea of Hero Classes long ago and have only added them for the same reason.

there were 8 races at launch.

I recall being fairly sad as a raider that we had no fear ward, no weapon skill human racial (combined with decent pvp racials), and no paladins.

point stands

Horde still had way racials better for raiding and PvP.
Doing BGs as an allaince warlock in vanilla and TBC made me want to stab my eyes out.

Paladins were buff bots in Vanilla. Though, fair's fair, Shamans were there for Bloodlust and nothing else.

Of course, in forty man raids, you could afford to have a quarter of the players AFK at any given point in time. Hell, Hunters would just unload their mana-bar, auto-attack, and alt-tab. Pop in every few minutes to cast an arcane shot and check position. If you were a Beastmaster, you could Feign Dead and let your pet go to work.

Raids were a mistake.

bloodlust wasn't in vanilla.

Why would we want to prevent that?

I am slightly dissapointed that there are no more good MMOs, I mean I had some fun playing WoW off and on throughought the years, but I wish that a game would come along and not be entirely shit.

Every single MMO that comes out today flops harder than a fat guy on a diving board.

I remember I won the free beta test for ESO and it was the shittiest, most grind ridden game ever. Can't believe gold farmers and bots actually used it to make a profit.

I remember seeing videos and pictures right after release of thousands of bots just clogging up every city. Pretty dumb for a game that died in a few more months.

Wait, what? Really? Then what the hell did Shamans even do in vanilla?

death approaches you better run kiddo
pssh what do u think ur gonna do with that wepon??

chain heal spam and mana tide totems mostly.

Damage buff totems

And the OP disease cleansing totem

I tried to look up things about ESO but even reading a wiki about it makes me bored. there's just something about the way that game looks that really just puts me to sleep.

Yeah, I remember trying to do the PvP during the beta, and it was literally walking for hours, seeing two assholes who were lagging like hell, then dying.

They made that the only way to actually move about terrain in any form of manner was either to grind to buy a horse, or fork them some cash.

If Bethesda never made Morrowind, Daggerfall, and old Fallout they would be one of the worst companies of all time. But they might as well be because they will never make a game that will give the same feeling and greatness of Morrowind.

I feel like that for most games, that there will never be a better game and that it is just one big downward slope after an epoch is reached.

They only made 3 and 4.

Just what the fuck are you talking about.

I mean, they're shit games, regardless, but Bethesda had nothing to do with them.

IT TOOK TWELVE YEARS TO MAKE

Fuck that.
Blood Elves were the least faggy elves I've ever seen (at least as of TFT). They had this Balkan, post-yugo defiant anger at the world.
Having them go back to Alliance after TFT would do them worse in terms of characterization than what WoW did to them overall.

Alliance should have gotten pre-retcon Draenei. Weird ass, shady, mushroom-farming, baleen-toothed aliens with a boner for killing orcs.
For all I remember of Akama in TFT, he and his alium people were fairly decent, reasonable, and had an air of somber dignity about them.
They'd fit right in, and Alliance would have gotten their "ugly" race the devs so clamored for.

from a pvpers aspect mop was the highlight of pvp next to wraith but from a pvers aspect i think the game went downhill in cata dont get me wrong raiding is still fun with friends but good luck find people in wow anymore when there all in there fucking garrison jerking off to apexis crystals, thats the main problem with the game its not an mmo anymore its a single player rpg with matchmaking

we need more ogre qts

what would happen if one head was into you and the other head hated you
like, imagine dating a hydra or something where dating is more politics than romance

one of them is bound to like buttsex

I've wondered what conjoined twins' dating like is like…

My point was that including worgen and pandas turned the whole thing into a furries fanfic vision of what the game used to be, coupled with the casualization of gameplay it was the final death-knell for the series.

Lore-wise it took a nosedive with TBC (frankly, warcraft lore took a fucking nosedive in TFT but that's another matter entirely) but up until that point the gameplay was still really good. Things began going sour towards the end of TBC with all the fucking daily quests for example but the raids were still good and yes they were good through most of Wrath as well.

Female draenei a qt tho

Technically both. The hardcore players demand content for them, then the casuals whine that they can't do the content (pressing more than 3 buttons and standing in the right place is hard!) and then they release dumbed-down versions of the content that even retards can complete, taking away the satisfaction of progression.

Speaking of, I still do much prefer pandas over fucking Blood Elves.

Raids in vanilla were pretty terrible especially early on, holy shit were there some bad decisions that went into class balance and raid design.

Still, there was incredible depth to the gameplay and raids were actually challenging, both huge factors in what made the game fun.

Raiding reduced the entire world into nothing but a set of instanced dungeons. Blizzard puts all their time into the loot treadmill instead of creating a varied world with lots of things to do.

Its fucking dead. Who cares what races they add at this po
?

Not just raiding but the fucking daily quests as well. The joy of simply exploring the game's world vanished pretty quick once you hit 70.

...

I mean class.

...

Isn't there that one girl who was born with two heads?

i like it how poorfags try to claim they played ESO "beta" and apparently game was extremelly shit so they dropped it

Poorfags you played WEEKEND STRESS TEST and you didnt "win a beta key" everyone was invited for weekend stress tests

ESO was actually the most enjoyable MMO i played in years despite having some flaws to it, Cyrodil PvP was so addicting people were doing Cyrodil more than its PvE content

So far i have seen only poorfags who pirated Skyrim bash on ESO and i can bet if ESO was F2P or piratable in some way those same poorfags would praise it as better than Skyrim.

Todd, please stop.

ESO was made by Zenimax Online not Bethesda, if Todd had any hand in ESO development nobody would touch that game even if it was F2P at launch

What we need is more porn of one headed ogres. I don't mind two heads, but one head wouldn't hurt.

Ogres have been part of the horde since Warcraft 1. And they do have their own culture, culture enough to form the Gorian Empire with it's own Imperator and Gronn, Gronnling and Orc slaves.

They could've reintroduced them in Burning Crusade as holdouts in Outland that have come through to rebuild their Empire in a more hospitable land where they can prosper, allying with the Horde out of sheer convenience.

Nah, having zero content outside of 2-3 raids is what killed it.

and the introduction of the constant leveling treadmill.

uwot?

/monster/ if you want generic animu grill with horn, now what i would wanna see is more monstrous ogre girls

Lorewise they were part of the horde on Draenor but they weren't depicted as part of the invasion force in game until WC2.

...

Also, on the subject, I'm still annoyed I can't make a Troll that's the original green. I don't see why a few forest trolls couldn't have stuck with the horde.

At least some were. Griselda started dating one and then fled with him and a few of his buddies.

I asked for a one headed Warcraft ogre female, don't act like I asked anything different so you could bring up the monster girl board.

Lorewise there are forest trolls with the horde like the Revantusk tribe. You can't play one because fuck you.

What's wrong with Blood Elves again?

You know a two-headed monster game would make fun co-op experience.

Too pretty for the Horde.

i also much prefer the original draenei. Why did they feel the need to make another Light Worshipping race when they already had Humans?

because Metzen has a corruption fetish

AS ABOVE SO BELOW

Also you only get to play as the shitty Auschwitz trolls

This pains me to no fucking end, why are people still fine with wow expansions making old content irrelevant and essentially replacing it instead of actually EXPANDING the game?

Why do I keep hearing autists complaining about WoW being dumbed down as if it wasn't already a dumbed down piece of shit to begin with? WoW was literally the League of Legends of its time. Or the Overwatch of its time, as that seems to be the new thing you autists love to hate.

…you want them to have two vaginas/buttholes?

I like the trolls but jesus have they been underutilized as fuck.

i brought the board up knowing most wow ogre art looks just like fat or fit human girl with a horn

Don't worry, now you get the warchief that you always wanted.

Could you have picked lighter lined images?

Slutvanas ain't my warchief, she barely part of the horde.

I'd have rather had ogres instead of undead, wretched blood elves instead of normal blood elves, and pandaran replaced by the scourge as the neutral faction that lets players join either horde or alliance..

hay, its what i got for 1 head wow ogre

saved

you need to calibrate your display or get off that $10 panel m8

I would've resubbed if they had made murlocs playable.
Now it's too late.

Having blood elves in the horde was the biggest POS ever.
I guess that's because horde was ugly as hell, so they wanted to give them top tier waifus too.

Only the men and all the Tauren.

silence knife-ear savage

Are you retarded? Do you think the shape of the ears are the only reason people don't like elves? Or are you just blindingly stupid because of your tauren furfaggotry?

Your tastes are shit, as expected.

just look at those troll ears, they look the same if not worse than night elf ones

Oh, so you are just plain retarded then. Good to know, opinions discarded entirely.

...

"I am braindead": the post

...

Don't engage him, he just wants to furfag shitpost.

Trolls are literally African elves.

Did i trigger your shit taste too much?

And here's you reply, and wouldn't'cha know, it's my last! Enjoy it.

...

You are retarded, it is a fact.
You don't even understand why we are calling you retarded and that is just proving the point even more, even with this answer you ill still think we are "butthurt" because your mind can't understand why we are calling you retarded, and that makes you even more retarded.

be more butthurt knife-ear fetishist

Took the Tommen way out.

In warcraft elves and trolls are actually the same species.

Haha, wow!
Not surprised those. LotR did it first

Stop engaging them. To give them the excuse to be the retards they want to be.

Jesus christ you knife eared faggots can't help yourselves.

Nah that's orcs and elves you are thinking of.

I meant its a very similar premise.

Yeah I get you. In warcraft's case though it's elves that are mutant trolls.

in vanilla alterac valley troll NPC directly confirms it, he says how night elves want to exterminate trolls and ask you get him night elf heads, he continues saying the night elf plan will never happen as night elf came from trolls and trolls are more numerious

...

...

...