A lot of people these days are caught up in the “left-right” political spectrum these days. They all seem to think that if the government would just “deregulate a bit more” or “offer this one free welfare” that everything will improve drastically. Of course we’ve seen in the past decades, across the planet, the complete incompetence of both the socialists and the conservatives. Most people know in their hearts that there is a perfect system, but can you prove it?
There have been a lot of people who have trouble understanding the position of Fascism and National Socialism on the political compass, so it seems appropriate to clarify what exactly “Third Position” is, and what the economic underpinnings of this misunderstood ideology are.
One doesn’t have to be on the internet for long to see that both sides of the political spectrum will use “Nazi” or “Fascist” as a pejorative against the opponent. My fellow Americans may notice this has grown increasingly common between the Republican and Democratic parties. The reason both sides are able to effectively use these terms as a pejorative is that both National Socialism (Nazism) and Fascism are “third position” or “radical centrist.” It is an ideology that incorporates elements from left, right, and center, for the sake of benefiting the nation.
I will take the liberty to make a generalization and say that the left-wing is most interested in fighting international finance or “capital,” and the right-wing is generally the more anti-semitic faction. We see in the Soviet Union a merge of both these evildoers, for the sake of promoting the Bolshevik revolution. I’m sure someone who is conscious of the history of Jews is not surprised at all that 80% of Soviet Commissars were Jewish. But something that often surprises both sides of the political spectrum is that the Bolshevik revolution was financed by several prominent members of Wall-street. Both the Jews and international finance backed the most destructive nightmare to ever blemish the earth.
It is hard to pin point what Third Positionism is exactly, but a way to explain it is to define its antithesis – its opposite – its enemy. It is easy to understand that National Socialism is focused solely on strengthening the nation, but one must also understand what it is financing. Some just say “the international Jew” or “globalism,” but as always the issue is more nuanced than that.
It was Leon Degrelle who famously said “German-racialism has been deliberately distorted. It never was anti-”other race” racialism. It was a pro-German racialism. I was concerned with making the German race strong and healthy in every way. I’m sure by now you’re aware that the enemy forces in society often project their faults onto others, and this quote sheds light on that. The entity that is framing the narrative against racialism is one that is “racist” in its own right. It is an entity that seeks the destruction of all races. This entity wants to destroy everything, and create a mundane world. A world where workers are just barely kept alive, stripped of everything that makes them a unique individual, and kept in the most mundane conditions imaginable. This “paradise” is one where the countryside is littered with apartments that look exactly the same. The populace all wears the same clothing. Religion is just a cheap gimmick, lacking of any nourishment to a person’s psyche. And flavor is of the least concern with regards to food, and food is made to be as convenient, cheap, and fast as possible. And the family is all but abolished.
The only word that can truly describe this nightmare scenario is “hyper-materialism.” The systematic eradication of beautiful things, and replacing them with instant gratification, but ultimately soulless and hollow, endeavors. What is behind this? Marxists? Capitalists? Jews? Satan? As far as the Third Position is concerned, all three are correct. This is the anti-race, the kali yuga, international Jewry, the antichrist. A morally bankrupt world full of materialism, and lack of the beautiful strive for anything greater than material gain.
Austin Moore
So we’ve established a framework where it is the Nationalists (humans) against the Anti-race. (Materialists) But many are still stuck in the old left-right dichotomy. This promotion of family, spiritual growth, wisdom, and happiness is something that both the left and the right with try to say is theirs, and then pin the hyper-materialist dystopia on the opposing side. But one doesn’t have to look hard to see the foolishness of such a dichotomy. In fact we can prove that both sides are corrupt very easily.
The Communists, according to Marx, wish to abolish the family. They wish to equalize all wealth, regardless of the amount of effort put in. They wish to eliminate national borders, which will inevitably lead to all races becoming the same shade of brown. This is a world with no family happiness, no religion, no ethnic pride, no reason for scientific advancement, and all labor is equally mundane and meaningless. And I am not even describing the numerous examples of failed Communism, no, I am describing their Utopia. This is an end-goal of creating a society where you will never feel the compassion of a girl wrapping her arms around your neck, and saying she’ll love you forever. This is a world where you will never go out into your yard and say “I built that,” a feeling that all men can appreciate. Communism is quite clearly a Materialist nightmare. A world where all that matters is the attainment of Material goods, (though even this is only done communally) and anything else in life is rendered null.
Jace Bailey
And what of the Capitalists? Surely they are better, right? Much to the disproval of many members of this amazing cause, Capitalism fails in the same vain as Communism. It disregards any higher meaning to life other than material gain. Realistically there is no reason to spend your own money on raising kids, or to donate money to a church. The only thing to take control from there is naturally material gain. Once this is accomplished, economic leverage can be utilized to effectively hijack the state. Both dictatorship and republic alike will submit to the power of the private-interests. And we have a state whose main priority is appeasing these private industries. In doing so they will naturally begin to remove things such as national borders and marriage sanctity laws. After all, women out of the home means twice as many workers. And more immigrants means cheaper labor. And lower tariffs means cheaper things to sell to those people, and the possibility of exporting jobs overseas. And don’t worry, none of these interests contradict each other. There is a very diverse array of private-interests pushing for all of these things for their own personal gain. So once again we end up in a soulless society, full of degenerates, and identical apartment complexes. And the Communists are perfectly happy to take advantage of this Materialism in order to gain control of society “The free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.” –Karl Marx
Jordan Reyes
So now it’s easy to get a clear idea of what the enemy is. And thus we can understand what National Socialism is. National Socialism is embracing one’s own race, and making them strong. It is the love of healthy families, and doing everything to promote the prospering of marriages. It respects beauty, and holds the arts to be almost sacred. National Socialism rejects class warfare, and instead embraces class-cooperation. If a man does more, he deserves more, inequality is natural in nature, but that does not mean that we cannot all work towards a common goal of improving the nation. National Socialism is the embracing of the glorious reality of human potential; it is the rejection of the quintessentially Jewish materialism snare. The nuanced economic system of National Socialism is a topic for another day. But these are key underlining principles of this movement. Fascism is a movement of the mind, body, and soul. It is the strive for something above petty material gain, and for things that a man would be proud to die for.
“Fascism was born to inspire a faith not of the Right (which at bottom aspires to conserve everything, even injustice) or of the Left (which at bottom aspires to destroy everything, even goodness), but a collective, integral, national faith.” –Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera
Sebastian Cooper
I completely agree with your position OP. However, might I get your opinion on how to combat a problem that I notice is only growing. While awareness of National Socialism (True NS not Hollywood NS) is on the rise among Europeans in both Europe and the extended Anglosphere (USA, Australia, NZ, Canada) there is I feel a significant problem accompanying this rising awareness: Not all of this attention is going in the direction we want and by that I mean people (Especially Americans and the British) are conflating National Socialism with more traditional understandings of the term (i.e. - Marxism and Bernie tier socialism) They say on places like 4chan (Yeah yeah, I was only there while this site was down so for about two days) and on Youtube comments that Hillary and Bernie's policies are like Der Fuhrers' (Calling Hillary Hitlery and so on) Basically a continuation of 'The Democrats are the Real Racists' or 'ANTIFA are left - wing fascists' instead of addressing them as they are: Communists and Anarchists. I know Americans are particularly triggered by the word socialism and believe that anything that goes against 'muh principled conservative values' is big government and thus socialism. I feel this is a problem because not only does calling commies fascists take the heat off of the ideology of communism itself and ensures that we act within a leftist dichotomy which if you are aware 'Rules for Radicals' (Which I am sure you are) is something we must avoid on principle. We cannot work within their parameters and abide by their language. Also it only stiffens resistance to our ideological positions if fascist continues to be used a negative pejorative. How do we address this?
And one more thing. Do you agree with this distinction I am making between National Socialism and Marxist (Leninist, Stalinist what have you) In Marxian Socialism there is the assumption that there are people who can't work and must be provided for by the state. In National Socialism there is the assumption that everyone wants to work and the state has a duty to help them with this goal. Do you agree with this as well?
Christopher Walker
Excellent post my friend. There is certainly a problem in America in regards to getting called a socialist for wanted to have a properly structured economy, but at the same time we shouldn't ruin the powerful asset that having an anti-socialist nation gives us. In ancient times one would have a God for various things, and these Gods would start to intertwine, and become essentially the same thing. We saw this extensively in Rome and Greece, where Rome flat out copied Greece's pantheon, and Greece borrowed many hermetic concepts from the Egyptians. What seems to be the simplest method of advancing National Socialism within the public sphere is to simply do it under a different name. Just say "Nationalism" or "Conservatism." In reality, most people won't care if you break the party line, since National Socialism so effectively speaks to the soul of every people. If you are interested in politics then avoid doing Nazi salutes or ranting about Jews and non-whites. In fact say you love them. But when you get the chance do everything in your power to hurt them. Just as the Gods of ancient times transcended name, so to can we. In action and spirit we may be fascists, but in name we are simply like-minded patriots.
And as for the difference between Marxist and National Socialism I would say that the difference is between class cooperation and class warfare. Bernie Sanders will come out an "rage against the one percent," but a National Socialist will come out and "promote a national dividend to boost national purchasing power, for unilateral economic growth." Commies just want to fight the Worker-Manager war, but National Socialists want to get the worker and the manager to work together to find agreeable compromises, and advance the interests of the producers, workers, consumers, and the state.
An example is with the North Korean Juche. At first glance it seems to be National Socialism. It has fierce Nationalism and even strict eugenics and racial pride, mandated by the state. But it fails to meet the organic requirements of fascism. Fascism seeks to achieve harmony between all classes of society, and have the government be run by representatives of every important party. Whereas Marxists will simply always act in the name of the proletariat, and try to steal wealth from whoever is the bourgeoisie of the day.
Grayson Turner
tl;dr
Caleb Diaz
I agree with your assessment about North Korea, it always seemed to as a more dynastic monarchy than either a Marxist or National Socialist state but then again that may just be because of my limited understanding of the country and its internal politics beyond what I hear in the news and read on Holla Forums.
I couldn't agree more with your explanation of the difference between Marxism and National Socialism. I can't really add more to it because you stated every important aspect but a good picture that introduces the ideological concept to people that is easy to understand and may pique interest in further study is the picture of those three guys pulling the block with Stalin on top of the block telling to what to do contrasted with the same picture but Hitler is pulling the block with his workers leading the way. You know the one I'm sure although I'm afraid I don't have it.
Jonathan Bell
I know exactly what meme you're talking about. I wish I had it on hand, that would have been perfect.
Also I believe Korean culture has grown the populace extremely used to monarchy and heridability. So the transfer of power from Kim Il Sun to Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un might have been more of a natural progression, than an ideologically backed decision. Despite their disgustingly totalitarian government, and abhorrently flawed economy policy, the North Koreans are certainly a fascinating people.
Justin Gutierrez
Not
Joshua Barnes
Indeed the North Koreans are an interesting people. However while on the subject of North Korea there is another problem I feel must be addressed: The tendency to idolize countries that simply oppose liberalism and leftism but have major flaws that are overlooked simply because of this fact. For instance North Korea is often referred to by Holla Forums as Best Korea because South Korea is a degenerate and corrupt (As was proven by Park and her debacle) country whereas North Korea places emphasis on discipline and authority. As you stated previously North Korea is disgustingly totalitarian but this is overlooked simply because of their rejection of the liberal values of the South Korea state. However this may be more meme than reality so it may not count.
But this brings us to countries like Russia. Now I don't dislike Russia (Sometimes I get angry over WW2 and their continued occupation of Konigsberg but that's the past and I have to force myself to accept the realities of this modern day and age) but many on this site, 4/pol/ and the aut - right believe Russia to be some kind of white paradise and Putin as the savior of the European races (When it's pretty apparent that Russia has only ever looked out for its own interests, not that there's anything wrong with this) but protecting the 'white race' is not there prerogative. And this goes for Poland and Czechia and other eastern European countries. I think it is important to recognize both the good and bad aspects of these countries instead of trying to push some fantasy of a white ethnostate paradise on them that really does no one any good. Would you agree with this?
Mason Lopez
...
Austin Smith
Yep, that's the one. Perfect to generate an initial interest into the ideological tenants of National Socialism and hopefully provide an incentive to research further
Andrew Ward
10/10 post
Luke Wilson
I really appreciate that you have taken the time to effort post OP but 8/pol/ nowaday rarely don't. You should try >>>/polk/.
Isaac Perez
I have made a swedish translation (with some minor changes) of your posts OP and I will see if I can get it on Nordfront.
Nicholas White
When degenerate south Koreans genocide themselves with enrichment, multiculturalism, liberalism, and materialism only one country of Koreans will have been preserved. "Best Korea" isn't a meme.
Best Korea
Robert Hill
Bump. Good thread. Heavy shilling right now, so hang in there.
Chase Gray
Try not posting Hitler if you want to someone to take seriously a Third Position.
Alexander Gonzalez
Excellent post. Worthy of an infographic, including the capitalist/socialist clash so prevalent in the USA as it's relevant.
Brody Wright
This is something that we've actively discussed back and forth for years. The reality is that so long as Hitler can be used as a spectre that both conservatives and leftists can hang over third positionist ideology, we cannot make any progress. Rather than hide from Hitler and pretend we have nothing to do with him, which is a flimsy lie that will be found out anyways, we've decided to wholly embrace it. We will embrace it, we will desensitize the normie to Hitler. We will make holocaust jokes and edgy humor funny and subversive to young people. We will overwhelm them with Hitler until he is no longer the fearsome hollywood monster. It's already working, and it's only just beginning. We've made Hitler into a subversive meme and it's spreading. We spent generations trying to hide and play the 'were not really racists' game. We should have been facing it head on from the start.
Matthew James
Can you combine these into a single picture so I can have this all together and post it as a single PNG later on? This is some really good posting and it's a crying shame it's so ignored. I'm not sure if that's a black smear against Holla Forums or not. I'd like to think it's just some heavy shilling at the moment, so I want to save this thread and its content so I can post it later when needed.
This might be getting into esoteric territory, but would you say that the NatSoc ideology, in many ways, is merely a modern, updated rendition of the natural way things just used to be among our forefathers, like Republican Rome or ancient Greece. They had as a rule much of these same moral characters and outlook on life that National Socialism advocates. However, they lacked a sort of "good of the people" mentality. While not explicitly corrupt or selfservingly oligarchic in their halcyon days, they saw giving into the needs of the lower classes with a measure of fearful disdain that would be unthinkable today. (Then again, our worst monsters today claim to do things "for the people," so maybe their fears had a strong grain of reason to them)
Wyatt Walker
First off, nice trips,
Second, I completely agree with your assessment. As has become very clear by the rise of Trump people who stand by their beliefs rather than shy away from them are more likely to be respected by both their peers and enemies alike. Trump said things that no one thought you could say anymore and when his enemies demanded he take back those statements he refused and stuck by his own words exuding confidence and strength. This is something mainstream 'principled conservatives' like Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush could never understand. Their cucking on issues to make themselves look less extreme then they really are and thus kneel before leftwing paradigms only makes the right look weak (Despite them thinking it them look like the bigger men - it doesn't) We have made such a large impact in the political sphere because we didn't kowtow to the left who don't abide by any ethical principles as it is. They have no honor and honor in battle should only be reserved for those who are willing to reciprocate it therefore the left deserves no honorable defeat. They must be taken down with the same tactics they used against us in the 70's and 80's. And we know this and have used this to our advantage quite well. The dissemination of memes and toppling of Hitler from his position as the literal Satan of human experience has had net positive effects on this movement. And I am beginning to see this everywhere. From somewhere as broad as Youtube to my own personal experiences. Five years ago my friends thought me crazy for believing anything I did and now they can't help but agree with me - the situation the world is in lends itself too easily to our point of view.
The project to make Hitler seem an object of humor rather than unspeakable evil is working and I don't want to jinx it but I truly believe that within our lifetimes Hitler's prophetic statement: 'My spirit shall rise from the grave and world will know that I was right' will really come true. So have some faith and continue fighting the good fight.
Isaiah Martin
National Socialism is great because it borrows many of the principles from civilizations often considered the pinnacle of the Western world - Greece and the Roman Empire etc. while adapting some core beliefs to suit the temporal situation in which they found themselves in. The ability of any ideology to be flexible enough to change when circumstances dictate is one which is rare but if there makes said ideology truly one of the greats. National Socialism is perfect for this as it is more than a mere ideology whether political or social like capitalism or communism, but rather it is a Weltanschauung (Worldview) a philosophy, a way of looking at the world not from a primarily economic view like capitalism or communism but from a racial view which makes everything else possible. The people of ancient Rome and Greece feared the mob because as we here know without sounding too arrogant, the vast majority of people are, quite frankly, idiots, especially when making group decisions. I would have to disagree with you about corruption and oligarchy though. The Roman Republic was extremely corrupt and was one of the reasons why the Imperial system was adopted and Greek city states like the famous Sparta were self described Oligarchies who fought against the self described 'Radical Democracy' of Athens. Now I love National Socialism for the fact that it incorporates the discipline and aesthetic of Rome while embracing the meritocratic elements of Greek city states like Athens.
For example the Adolf Hitler schools served as training grounds for a new generation of leaders cultivated with the National Socialist ideology and instilled with discipline and a dedication to their own people. This is the answer to many who say the regime would have collapsed when Hitler died because there would have been too much infighting. Unlike Rome where the emperors were dynastic leading to bad emperors like Caligula and Nero, Athens leaders were elected based on their merit primarily and dismissed when they proved themselves unable to meet the task much like NS Germany.
The difference between NS Germany and Greece is, and this relates back to your query about the lower classes, is that only the aristocracy in Greece were allowed to enter into politics. In Germany Hitler advocated class cooperation rather than class struggle as advocated by Marx. This was the understanding that although there would always be an economic, social and political heirarchy (As there should be - not everyone can be masters) that didn't mean that classes couldn't work together towards something greater. In the Adolf Hitler schools anyone could potentially be the next big leader regardless of their class if they were willing to put in the work and the sons of party officials were given no more privilege than the son of a farmer or laborer. The thing that united the German people was something stronger than class. It was blood. What reason did you have to have to hate your neighbor for having more money than you when you were both German? A victory for you is a victory for your neighbor and victory for you and your neighbor is a victory for Germany. Racial consciousness should take priority over class consciousness.
Isaiah Richardson
What ideologies (that, simplifying National Socialism to an ideology) are as third position and as good as Natsoc and Fascism?
Parker Lopez
If you can't define something concisely, it's useless bullshit, same as the way Jews make up bullshit stories and concepts.
Brody Harris
Fascism is primarily understood as the third position because it incorporates both capitalist and socialist elements while rejecting both at the same time. I would argue that National Socialism isn't even a third way but a fourth way that incorporates elements from capitalism, socialism and fascism. It has just often conflated with fascism because of its historical alliance and similar aesthetics.
Unfortunately I cannot think of any other ideologies that fit the definition of a third position let alone one as good as fascism or National Socialism. All the others (Anarchism, democratic socialism, Ancap, libertarianism, monarchsim etc. all fall within the capitalist ←> communist spectrum)
I can agree with that. I don't know much about Baathism but I am told it is very National Socialist like in nature
Grayson Johnson
but this doesnt explain how national socialism will solve any problems. Thats something I'd really like to know. Not that I have something against this third position, I just havent heard to much of it in such an easily digestible format.
Its criticisms of capitalism also seem to fall short imo. It seems the main argument is that there is "no reason" to spend your money on your kids or donate to a church. How about because you love your kids and want to see them do well? How about because you like your church and/or pastor and think they are worth paying? or maybe even your religion mandates that you must? Capitalism doesnt inherently remove these things. These things only happen when it is near impossibly to make "spending money". Which is not natural under a purely capitalistic system.
Not that im entirely for "free trade". If communist china destroys their economy and then people take advantage of them to gain an edge on some market far away, I'm not sure I can support that.
Jace Bell
More familiar with Baathism than German national socialism but to put it simply the mineral and petroleum industries are nationalized and used to fund infrastructure and social programs instead of relying on tax from the working class. Baathism and Arab socialism in general typically promotes home ownership and private businesses/free market by charging very low or no taxes and giving loans with no interest (usury is illegal), this is what largely benefits the average person.
IMO this is an issue largely specific to German NatSoc's, NS Germany discouraged inheritance and only allowed it for certain individuals and some farmers which is likely responsible for this sentiment
Ian Collins
Hasn't stopped them from amassing an army of shabbos goyim.
Bentley Sullivan
Don't worry. I hope to make another thread like this that goes in depth on the National Socialist economy. It's taken years of reading and lurking to get a good understanding of NatSoc theory, and now it is time to give back to the community.
But if you're feeling impatient I suggest heading over to /pdf/ and picking up "Manifesto for the Abolition of Interest-slavery" by Gottfried feder. "The Coming Corporate State" by Alexander Thomson. And "social-credit" by C.H. Douglass.
The National Socialist economy essentially nullifies the unchecked power of the private industry, but also gives industries, workers, and consumers an official place in the Government. It's basically a blend of Socialism and Capitalism that encourages private property, but nationalizes oil, banks, and labor unions.
Brayden Young
It's criticism of capitalism is much like that of socialism's in that it exploits the worker to profit the factory owner or capitalist. The solution however that National Socialism offers is class cooperation rather than class warfare like the Marxism. Under Hitler wages and workers living conditions went up. Unions were state controlled but they ensured that workers were treated fairly and with dignity. I'd say the main critique of capitalism is that it focuses solely on making a profit and disregards the health of the race encouraging extremely selfish behavior and the promotion of degeneracy. For example all those companies in the US that hire third world workers and import them into the US diluting the racial purity of the state and bringing crime and drugs, lowering standard test scores and fostering distrust in what was previously tight knit high trust communities is a result of giant industrialists and capitalists wanting to make bigger profits and pay less wages hence the hiring of the third world. Additionally in capitalism anything goes as long as it makes money whether it be pornography or any other form of degeneracy that severely damages the health of society. It doesn't matter as long as it makes money. Now you could say that all of this is because capitalism has been corrupted or perverted but if it was that easy to subvert in the first place then what made it so great to begin with?
Charles Gonzalez
gas yourself, back to your shitty chatrooms.
Ethan Moore
Absolutely pathetic. Here's your (You) now get the fuck out
Samuel Rogers
reported for redpill thread
This is a dubs board. Praise kek.
Dylan Collins
Thx user. Including for the recommended books. I had sort of lost hope that people would make quality OC here.
You're absolutely right that people here - especially since the election - get too caught up in the fundamentally kosher left-right system.
Jace King
Capitalism is far more insidious than Marxism in that it doesn't exactly force anything. But the reality is that it creates a society in which private business are in charge of the overall culture of a society, and so culture becomes a business enterprise. This creates incentives wherein there is a great deal of money to be made by slowly turning people away from their families, from their church, from tradition and towards an empty soul-crushing consumer culture. Destroying the family is profitable, destoring the church is profitable, and it coincides with the goals of the Jews who control the media. A capitalist liberal society is so fundamentally easy to subvert because the government is subservient to business interests, and must be. Any government that tried to fight back against them would find themselves in a losing economic war against the banks, the media, the stock market and the various jew-owned business interests.
Connor Reyes
Why was this thread anchored? I spent half an hour mulling over political theory, and trying to write it down in a simple and concise manner. Only to have it anchored? This is either an accident, or blatant corruption.
I posted it there, and got a good reaction. I think I'll have to move there since the mods anchored this.
Parker Fisher
keep posting. fuck the mods if this was anchored intentionally. This thread wasn't even moving that quickly, there was no reason to anchor our cozy little discussion.
Jackson Brown
4chan Holla Forums Administrator Skypes and Discords LEAKED. INCLUDES SKYPE LOGS!
In table talks Hitler talks about how he envisioned the selection of the head of state in the future. You should definitely read it if you haven't already. He also did not intend to be the leader until he died and that, i believe, would have created more than enough stability for the new leader to be firmly established.
I come to pol for information posts like this, but garbage threads where shills and newfags throw shit at each other for 1000 posts get the most attention.
Isaac Fisher
Welcome to Holla Forums, where shitflinging shill infested threads are allowed to stay at the top but mods bumplock anything else
Owen Hill
I'm glad you enjoyed the post, I had to flee here from 4/pol/ a few months before the election season. And I was extremely impressed by the high post quality here, there are so few places with good discussion, and it was a shame to see 8/pol/ fall into the death throes 4/pol/ went to leading up to its demise.
The mods interfered with my hopes of giving back to Holla Forums for all it has given me, but with posts like it's inevitable that the corrupt mods are removed.
