>2017

Oliver Martinez
Oliver Martinez

2017: The Year Almost Everything Went Wrong for Marvel Comics
archive.is/Z0pN6

All urls found in this thread:

archive.is/Z0pN6
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jimzub.com/how-do-i-break-in/

Ethan Barnes
Ethan Barnes

Going into 2018, Marvel faces significant challenges, from reversing sales slides to convincing disillusioned fans that the company remains committed to diversity.
Their commitment to 'diversity' is the reason they're in such shit to begin with

Aaron Morales
Aaron Morales

Is called backpedaling my dear son.

Justin Wilson
Justin Wilson

Journalists are now trying to coopt what is making things fail.
the reason why Star Wars is failing is because it doesn't have ENOUGH diversity
same with Marvel Comics!!

I don't think they are trying to convince Disney and Marvel so much as middle ground onlookers.

Jason Evans
Jason Evans

SJW comics are not selling.
Is because there's still too much evil whitey comics on the shelves.
I can almost hear the gun next to his head.

Joseph Sanchez
Joseph Sanchez

Marvel's "diversity" is just a shitty coat of paint on the same tired cape formulas. It's diversity in name only.

Of course, they're likely being paid by them.

Really, the complaints about "diversity" are a smokescreen to obscure terrible business decisions. Marvel's failure is because they dumped a ton of books on the market, many of poor quality, and are now reaping the rewards of their over saturation.

Lincoln Moore
Lincoln Moore

Marvel-chan walks in, spray-tanned orange.
"Is-Is this good enough now? Am I racially diverse enough?"
"NO. Not nearly enough, and now people hate you because of it."
"But maybe it's because I did this and it had an impact on the quality of writing that I-"
"HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SUCH A THING! YOU'RE JUST NOT GOING FAR ENOUGH! HERE, TAKE THIS BUCKET OF TAR AND BRIGHT RED WAX LIPS!"
"But-"
"NOW! I WANT YOU TO LOOK LIKE A NIG- RESPECTABLE PERSON OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN DESCENT. ALSO, YOU CAN'T BE SEEN WITH THAT Holla Forums-TAN ANYMORE, HE'S FAR TO CIS FOR YOU TO BE HANGING AROUND!"
Marvel-chan walks away with the bucket and oversized wax lips, tears in her eyes. She wonders how DC-chan and Holla Forums are doing. She hopes they're both doing well.

Gabriel Nelson
Gabriel Nelson

It's been said before, but the new "diverse" comics were poorly written and expensive comics with the depth of a twitter post. The fact that they're trying to market their product as "inventive and revolutionary" is hilarious considering that >90s Xmen existed and did diversity better.

Those "new" characters suck because they're not designed to be inclusive, they're designed to stroke the frail egos of arrogant journalists, activists, and comic book writers. The most they can do is frequently lie, claim that their opposition is nuhtzees, and pretend that their comic is flawless. Unfortunately for them, numbers speak the most. Go ahead and burn that money.

Thomas Carter
Thomas Carter

Holla Forums-TAN

Who is this "Holla Forums-TAN" you speak of? I have never encountered him before.

Justin Perry
Justin Perry

I don't think they're trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just straight denial. They'll never accept that 'diversity', or rather, their idea of 'diversity' doesn't work or that people in general are quite turned off by their attempts at empty, half-hearted pandering and virtue signalling.

Ryan Thompson
Ryan Thompson

90s Xmen existed and did diversity better.

Thank you for stating the truth. Everything they're pushing today was done better in the 90's. Gays, Women, Blacks, Transsexuals, all of them.

Modern stuff is just hashtag garbage.

Luis Murphy
Luis Murphy

Diversity is neither the problem nor the solution. The problem is Marvel is publishing 80+ books a month from their main line alone.

How the fuck can you expect comic retailers to buy all that shit? How can you expect resources and quality control to stay stable?

Jackson Richardson
Jackson Richardson

Their diverse comics don't sell well at all and they bought the diverse comics in bulk.

Wyatt Nelson
Wyatt Nelson

Actually, the opposite problem is happening. Marvel ships way too many comics with orders, as "freebies" for the readers, but it fucks over the distributors who get charged for the shipping and handling.

Aiden Butler
Aiden Butler

The diverse comics don't sell because they're empty hashtag bullshit nobody can get invested in. It's not that people don't want diverse characters, it's just that the "diversity" we got appealed to a niche audience of shallow twitter junkies.

They're literally MEME books.

Jacob Jackson
Jacob Jackson

Marvel must now find a way to make money while making the same exact mistakes that lost them money
Wew lad. Here's to hoping 2018 is the year they burn to the ground.

Wyatt Hill
Wyatt Hill

I want more Captain America
<What's that? You want AMERICA? YOU GOT IT! #Resist #RefugeesWelcome
God fucking dammit Marvel that's not what I meant

Brody Martinez
Brody Martinez

You are a beautiful brown babe, user. You are a bruja.

Mason Bennett
Mason Bennett

¿¡Brujas!?
¿¡Dónde!?

Carter Taylor
Carter Taylor

That the majority of series confirmed to be ending feature female leads or men of color didn’t escape the notice of many fans, with discussion of a boycott of the publisher soon following.
If these people were a significant market segment, those books wouldn't have been cancelled in the first place. Them threatening a boycott is a joke.

Ayden Walker
Ayden Walker

Marvel caving into them is the bigger joke

Jordan Sullivan
Jordan Sullivan

Ummm, we speak English on this board, mister.

Jaxson Taylor
Jaxson Taylor

I'm sorry my child of god. I'm just an inquisitor looking for witches.

And jews.

Luke Howard
Luke Howard

It wouldn't even be that goddamn hard to make the existing characters decent. It's just that they write these characters with no flaws and refuse to give them any struggle that's even partially their own fault.

Moon Girl
Never skipped a grade or got into college because meanie adults always had full seats and she could never get in
Mean adults just don't understand her because she's tooooo smaaaaart
Smartest character in the entire Marvel universe because… Who the fuck knows
Has never even fought a real fight, her brain constantly fails her but it's never shown to be her own fault

If they just made her a character who had no motivation because she was too smart to care and caused problems for herself specifically because she was such a genius, rather than it being everyone else's fault, I'd like her much more. Imagine her getting taken under a real genius' wing and eventually coming into her own with some struggles along the way where she thinks she's smarter than she is and has to be reminded she's just a kid (without proving people wrong about it).

But that's the whole thing. They don't care about flaws, or pay-off, or a good story. They want the diversity and they want the attention for being diverse NOW. They can't dare just have a good fucking character.

Kevin Ortiz
Kevin Ortiz

Cockeyed
I wonder if the artist noticed

Christian Jackson
Christian Jackson

I dunno know about that, but I heard Veronica Lodge's dad is a Freemason.

Nolan Moore
Nolan Moore

As one user suggested, Moon Girl would be a far more interesting character if she was smart in comic book terms.

"The theory of evolution is wrong! Mankind didn't evolve through natural selection, but was forcibly advanced by a race of cosmic beings called the Celestials for some unknown experiment!"

The class would then laugh at her and she would set out to find some Eternals to prove those idiots wrong.

Landon Kelly
Landon Kelly

Fray Francisco.
Bring me the torch.

Wyatt Perez
Wyatt Perez

Damn. That's fucking clever and fun. I can see why it never would have occurred to anyone at Marvel to do that.

Ryder Fisher
Ryder Fisher

So this Moon Girl is basically the brown Lisa Simpson?

Christopher Gonzalez
Christopher Gonzalez

Marvel's too obsessed with memes to pull off an idea like that.

That's actually what makes Gwenpool such a bizarre outlier. It should've been another meme book, but instead it was a solid meta book. It's something I would expect out of DC, not Marvel.

Connor Perez
Connor Perez

Hit monkey

Henry Lee
Henry Lee

God, I love that old Kirby ancient astronauts stuff.

Aaron Cook
Aaron Cook

I still take a lot of issue with Moon Girl for a variety of reasons, but having her be smart in that "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE™" way, where she does shit like trying to quote the theory of evolution at her teacher without citing evidence or studies, or pretending the working with lego is the same thing as mechanical and robotic engineering.. I can't think of a bigger insult to the audience, especially while they are trying to push her as the smartest person in the Marvel universe. Not to mention that her fucking power is being able to bodyswap with a fucking t-rex, which does nothing to add to her abilities as a wacky inventory. Or that time they had her show up in that awful America chavez book to bitch about how no one trusts her because she's a kid (and not because she's a colossal fuckup who thinks she can fight crime with rollerskates and toy gadgets).

If they simply wrote her like a smart comic book character instead of trying to use her to preach to the audience, they might be able to defend themselves. People wouldn't have to be angry because she'd just be a mediocre character, but she's not. She's the author's mouthpiece, so they can live out their wet dream of being an oppressed niglet who gets to prove how much better she is than all the dumb straight white males who she's trying to replace.

Hudson Peterson
Hudson Peterson

#Resist #RefugeesWelcome

It's cynical to claim any of Marvel's diversity books are "political". None of them actually stand for anything. When pressed, whatever perceived political message evaporates and you're left with a bizarre pantomime that vaguely references things.

Also, AMERICA is a staunchly anti-refugee comic. The closest thing AMERICA has to an arch-nemesis is a colony of space bugs that wander the galaxy eating planets. If that's not a clear anti-refugee/immigration message, then I don't know what is.

Levi Stewart
Levi Stewart

One thing I found funny about the whole thing was that Moon Boy was an ape and Moon Girl is a black girl so I don't know if it was intentional on Marvel's part regarding comparing black people to apes.

Kayden Sullivan
Kayden Sullivan

They were so eager to recast yet another male character with a minority that they failed to consider the implications of digging up such a relatively obscure character.

Isaiah Smith
Isaiah Smith

If they simply wrote her like a smart comic book character instead of trying to use her to preach to the audience, they might be able to defend themselves. People wouldn't have to be angry because she'd just be a mediocre character, but she's not.
Case and point would be the current Green Lantern book. It stars a muslim dude and spic chick. No one complains. Probably (never read it) because the author isn't using these characters as a soapbox or a self-insert. You look at all the worst offenders of the [current year] writing at Marvel and see how most of these authors just read a wiki about a character and then just focused on the characters saying their opinions or live out their fantasies. There's no depth or imagination.

I always saw it as just another case of liberals being racist/sexist/whatever but somehow it getting a pass because it's "progressive". Like Rucka with his lesbian fetish.

Nathan Perez
Nathan Perez

Rucka
He was the one that turned Renee Montoya into a lesbian didn't he?

Charles Bennett
Charles Bennett

Yes. I didn't mind her becoming a lesbian hot lesbians are hot, but it bugged me that he changed her characterization so much. In the cartoon, she's a very by-the-book, upright police officer, specifically to contrast with the rough, ends-justify-the-means approach of Bullock. Then Rucka puts her in Gotham Central and has her getting into fist fights at bars with bent cops to illegally get appropriated evidence, and liking it. Meh.

Jaxson Morris
Jaxson Morris

Rucka is an absolute fucking faggot. He basically tossed out everything that had been established about Renee Montoya up until that point, including disregarding Chuck Dixon's material (who had to toss away a story he had been writing up about Montoya's marriage to accommodate Rucka's retcons) and made the character virtually unrecognizable. Seriously, try reading/watching stuff featuring Montoya before and after Gotham Central. It's like two different characters, night and fucking day.

Rucka's Batman run was probably one of the lowest points of the 90's and early 2000's Batman comics, the only reason he doesn't get as much shit as he deserves is because his run was followed up by even bigger garbage in the form of Hush.

Easton Scott
Easton Scott

Couldn't he have just called her bisexual and used to be married? I'm sure the LBGT scene doesn't talk about how bisexuals are the biggest since they don't help with the Born This Way Narrative, but I imagine doing that for her and other ones like Iceman would do better to fit with them being established as interested in the opposite sex.

Justin Long
Justin Long

I can hear the sweat projecting from his brow between those two paragraphs.
We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against.

From a purely business perspective, nothing that he is saying should trigger people because hes simply relaying a market response to their product. Somehow people got so fucking upset that he was simply reading market trends that he had to clarify (see: completely change) that statement.
…and let me be clear, our new heroes are not going anywhere! We are proud and excited to keep introducing unique characters that reflect new voices and new experiences into the Marvel Universe and pair them with our iconic heroes.

What a fucking cuck.

Sales regarding these new characters is bad, very bad.
but we'll keep doing it because we know you really DO like the new characters!
Marvel is fucked.

Carter Perez
Carter Perez

ITT: USI
this outdated distribution method for comics that's been, is continuing to die
it hasn't been dying since the 90s crash from spamming Mecha-Ultra-Special Editions and nobody's mum throwing them out due to a moral panic, which is the only thing that made old comics valuable or rare
it's not being buried by manga either
it's because the writers disagree with my politics and the fans all agree with my politics
it's definitely not because the two factions have made the shit they're fighting over a wasteland of shitflinging and dogwhistles and everybody who isn't rabidly aut-right or SJW doesn't want to deal with rabid autrights and SJWs
you like to watch other men fuck your wife for even suggesting the possibility that it's that

Nathan Young
Nathan Young

I always thought TV Supergirl's Maggie Sawyer would have made a better Renee Montoya.

Andrew Rodriguez
Andrew Rodriguez

The issue is that Rucka felt the need to make her a carpet muncher in the first place because of his lesbian fetish and not because he had a proper story to tell. He does that FUCKING EVERYWHERE, even in Rebirth Wonder Woman the first thing he did was establish that Diana had tasted pussy. Because that was so important to her character and the story. I'm not even gonna mention how he ended up turning Two-Face into a retarded strawman in the very same story that "outed" Montoya as a lesbian.

As for Iceman, same. What exactly was the point of having Jean Grey repeatedly insist that he was gay until he "accepted" it? Brownie points for Bendis. And unfortunately, with Marvel's current setup, there's no chance that some non-retarded writer is gonna come along and retcon that shit back out of existence. Or even risk incurring the wrath of the screeching harpy brigade by attempting it.

Jeremiah Gutierrez
Jeremiah Gutierrez

Rivera
Quinones
Rivera
Rivera
Villarrubia
How many wetbacks does it take to make a decent comic? We're not close to finding out

Charles Johnson
Charles Johnson

Her interactions with Bullock were some of my favorite parts in No Man's Land, along with Catwoman and Alfred.

Kevin Jones
Kevin Jones

Rucka's Batman run was probably one of the lowest points of the 90's and early 2000's Batman comics

Oh yeah, the run which introduced Sasha Bordeaux, a super competent bodyguard love interest that donned a costume and fought crime with Batman. Because Rucka needs his action women.

He was also instrumental in Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive, which is one of the worst Batman arcs in modern history.

Jace Powell
Jace Powell

Oh, they're going to keep doing the "diversity", except it's going to be in a small ghetto away from the other books. I expect they'll keep the better sellers going, like Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl, and maybe do a few more books, but it won't be as prevalent as it was before. This will be doubly true when the X-Men return.

If I were Marvel, I'd make a team book with all of these Hashtag rejects ala New Guardians. Consolidate the twitter audience onto one book and see if it breaks 40,000.

Leo Peterson
Leo Peterson

If I were Marvel, I'd make a team book with all of these Hashtag rejects ala New Guardians. Consolidate the twitter audience onto one book and see if it breaks 40,000.
Isn't that exactly what the current Champions run is?

John Lee
John Lee

I wasn't aware Iron Heart joined the team, but yes, the Champions would fit the bill if they replaced Mark Waid with a brown twitter junky.

Ideally, The Champions would be a dumping ground for all of this shit. That way Marvel can clean up their mainline and still say they're pushing "diversity'.

Ayden Ortiz
Ayden Ortiz

He was also instrumental in Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive, which is one of the worst Batman arcs in modern history.

Seriously, how do you fuck up "Bruce Wayne is framed for murder" as bad as he did? It could have been stuck onto any competent mystery story and turn it into something memorable, yet he wrote that.

Elijah Barnes
Elijah Barnes

Seriously, how do you fuck up "Bruce Wayne is framed for murder" as bad as he did?

Well, first off, you run with the idea that Bruce actually murdered someone.

William Ramirez
William Ramirez

With Wonder Woman I thought there was some issue of Powergirl in the 80's where she hints that she fooled around with the other Amazons on Themyscira when she was younger or something?

And regarding Jean Grey and Iceman my headcanon is that she forced him to be gay with her powers.

She looks like Spoiler for some reason. He included some action girl in his Punisher run didn't he?

Jesus Christ that art is awful.

Zachary White
Zachary White

I can hear the sweat projecting from his brow between those two paragraphs.
Damage control is pretty obvious. Few months ago they used to claim that Marvel has no problem selling comics, and that new titles are doing absolutely great. Only examples used to support that claim were Thor (always mentioning her strong sales for debut issue while completely ignoring that it happens with most relaunches and that sales plummeted afterwards) and Ms. Marvel. Articles also mentioned that most of new titles sell very well digitally and through things like Scholastic. Unfortunately digital sales numbers are not released publicly, so only Marvel and stores themselves know the truth.

"Sales are good" shit stopped flying now that most diverse comics are cancelled. In December alone half a dozen were confirmed dead while future of few others is still unknown. Bloggers have no choice but to acknowledge shitty sales and spin it in their favor.

Carter Diaz
Carter Diaz

Did the person who wrote this talked to Joe Glass? Because this is like a Bleeding cool article.

Camden Green
Camden Green

Graeme McMillan is old SJW. He used to run a blog called Fanboy Rampage and would bitch about things that were un-PC at the time, among other things. Funny enough, Marvel and Bendis were some of his bigger targets, because Quesada and Jemas definitely had more of "boys club" feel to their Marvel. And of course he slobbered over Gail Simone.

Wyatt Perez
Wyatt Perez

That would be plausible if the big two were publishing anything that ran counter to the liberal point of view. The distribution model is terrible, you're right about that, but pretending that the political angle isn't completely one-sided is a fantasy.

Camden Thompson
Camden Thompson

Their shitty distribution model just means they aren't bringing in new readers. It has nothing to do with the way they're alienating the readers they already had.

Daniel Hughes
Daniel Hughes

How can you expect resources and quality control to stay stable?
If the hiring practices for their editors are like Heather Atnos situation (had to serve as an editor on ONE project before hiring, which was her friend's Kickstarted magzine) then their quality is pretty low.

Dylan Ortiz
Dylan Ortiz

Be Marvel
be this delusional and out of touch from reality that you keep pushing a diversity quota despite instead of giving people the stories they want
keep pandering to a non-existent demographic of fans while telling long time ones to suck a big one
News media tells you to "remember to be (((diverse)))
Has there ever been a more pathetic company to ever exist?

Xavier Roberts
Xavier Roberts

They have The Champions comic book, but in issue #5 they featured Gwenpool and she slammed the whole premise to the ground when she kept pointing out how boring the comic was.

Jackson Thomas
Jackson Thomas

Baz started in a pretty bad place and they side-lined him for over a year, if memory serves. Now, he's just another Lantern that they've brought back into the mix, and they're trying establish him as something other than "the brown guy that the justice league thought was a terrorist who stole a green lantern ring that one time"

Xavier Howard
Xavier Howard

If you wanted to have the Bat family have to solve the case without Bruce's help, literally all they had to do was have Bruce explain that while he can easily evade the cops and be Batman till the case is solved it will still leave Bruce Wayne wanted as a fugitive for fleeing. Could also be added to by having him say something about how not submitting to the justice system to be proven innocent invalidates everything Batman is for (why he doesn't just kill everyone beyond "muh code"). After telling his family they need to find the real killer he turns himself in.

Then Bruce's role in the story is either
a: Bail is denied after the prosecution points out he's so good at traveling low key his own board of directors can't keep track of which country he is in. He then has to survive in jail while learning just how corrupt Gotham's systems are on the inside. If you wanted to really make him active, the whole thing was orchestrated by one of the non-crazy bat villains he put away, like a Falcone boss that wants him out of the picture because his charity work keeps disrupting their operations, and they want to make it miserable for him on the inside too.
b: Him under house arrest and actually staying, bonding with Oracle.

This story writes itself and Rucka fucked it up.

Nathan Evans
Nathan Evans

Hush was better than Rucka's work. Hush was unpretentious. Sure, the mystery was obvious and Hush himself is a bland, unremarkable, overrated and now overused villain. But the story itself didn't really pretend to be anything other than a beautifully drawn all-star cavalcade of Batman heroes and villains. It celebrated instead of shitting all over Batman, like Rucka did with his pointless additions to the Bat family and constant need to virtue signal at every available opportunity

Nicholas Richardson
Nicholas Richardson

keep pandering to a non-existent demographic of fans while telling long time ones to suck a big one
long time fans
comics

You know the reason Marvel took the risk on diversity shit was because those "long time fans" are dying off with no new fans coming in to replace them.

I'm being completely serious about the "dying off" part. Comic companies had to factor in heart disease as a threat to their bottom line.

Jacob Gutierrez
Jacob Gutierrez

I thought they kind of blew the "daredevil in prison" arc, too. I mean, it could have been epic, it could have been fucking Story Of Ricky, but it just kind of farted out.

Leo Miller
Leo Miller

you've always been a fucking cuck, you've been saying the same horse shit here for at least three yeas, and your non-stop taking the dildo up your ass in this Holla Forums helped ensure this place slides down into 0 UID land

Ian Ross
Ian Ross

long time fans are dying off with no new fans coming in to replace them
comic companies had to factor in heart disease as a threat to their bottom line
<hey here's an idea: lets try and atract feminists and trannies
<one group has one the largest suicide rates this side of a nation on the verge of bankruptcy
<the other one is even more obese,whiny and niche than our current dying demographic
<bonus round: both groups never had an interest in comicbooks to begin with whatsoever
<bonus round 2: Marvel currently has a succesful capeshit movie franchise based on the stories from their comicbooks that their new audience seems to be rejecting as archaic and obsolete,what will happen to that when they try to take material from their nu line of heroes and incorporate it into the cinematic universe i wonder?
BRILLIANT

Gabriel Price
Gabriel Price

Almost
What didn't? Is it because they didn't fuck up hard enough to be forced into only selling their old shit?

she would set out to find some Eternals to prove those idiots wrong
Didn't Marvel kill them all off when they had the Fantastic Four reset the universe?

TV Supergirl
That show's still total incomprehensible garbage?

Didn't they pull off the Bruce Wayne on the run story, two times in the cartoon?

They really should have pulled a hard 180 when their movies ended up doing so well.

Lucas Foster
Lucas Foster

Don't blame Mexico. All those trash are American born and raised

Christopher Wilson
Christopher Wilson

That is some of the best animation I've seen on that show.

Carter Allen
Carter Allen

Didn't they pull off the Bruce Wayne on the run story, two times in the cartoon?

Bruce Wayne: Fugitive wasn't a fugitive story. It's a "BRUCE WAYNE IS THE MASK" story. The entire escapee incident doesn't matter at all since Bruce decides to become Batman full time. He doesn't even try to prove Bruce Wayne's innocence since he doesn't exist anymore.

If this sounds stupid, that's because it is, and we're not even getting into the convoluted as hell plot or the vile consequences of it like Sasha being in jail FOREVER. I don't know why mainstream comics need to keep revisiting basic stuff like Batman's identity, but it's dumb as fuck.

Also, I was avoiding this, but I can't ignore it anymore: Ed Brubaker is just as responsible for Fugitive as Rucka. He wrote some good Batman comics, but damn did he screw the pooch with Fugitive.

Lucas Turner
Lucas Turner

Also, I was avoiding this, but I can't ignore it anymore: Ed Brubaker is just as responsible for Fugitive as Rucka. He wrote some good Batman comics, but damn did he screw the pooch with Fugitive.
Whose idea was it?

I find it quite hilarious that Gotham Central went to shit almost as soon as Ed Brubaker left

Brayden Wood
Brayden Wood

They're still the same faggots.
A fish rots from the head down, etc.
hes simply relaying a market response to their product.
any character that was diverse
He talks like a codepink. If this sounds normal to you, well, it's a nice "Normal Person" t-shirt.

Dominic Brooks
Dominic Brooks

Silly user, space bugs are totes a reference to white invaders who eat our country that was always black/mexican:^]
I have a feeling marvel movies have hit their peak in a way. I know black panther will bomb but people will avoid mentioning it because NEWSFLASH: chinks hate niggers more than /pol/ and kikes.

William Jones
William Jones

I know black panther will bomb

I hope so. But then again, some people said the same thing about Spiderman Kikecoming and it became a box office success.

Jackson Reyes
Jackson Reyes

I have some bad news for you: China might not even be a factor.

Remember Deadpool? It was the fifth highest grossing movie of 2017 and it didn't even open in China.

Brayden Anderson
Brayden Anderson

That's because Deadpool was fun.

Jonathan Russell
Jonathan Russell

As someone who spent the better part of the early 2000's trying to break into comics as a writer, let me see if I can offer a unique perspective on what happened. During the early aughts, both DC and Marvel made a substantial change to their submissions policy. They stopped accepting unsolicited submissions. There was no feasible way for new writers to actually get their work in front of anyone at the big two. Artists had a hard go of it too but for writers it was especially difficult. Unless, of course, you had connections in the business. Given that this was the time they were just beginning their big diversity push, you also had to have the right politics.

So if you wonder why the industry never got its next generation, the weird new minds influenced by guys like Morrison, Moore, Claremont and Ellis, the same way they created the 80's/90's wave after having been influenced by Lee, Kirby, Colan, Steranko, etc, that's why. There's an entire disaffected generation of comics creators out there who got completely overlooked by the industry, able to only watch incredulously from the sidelines as every purple haired she-twink with a tumblr page got pushed to the head of the line as some exciting new voice. Today's comics fans have been cheated. Who knows what great new characters and story arcs people would be raving about today, replaced instead with Squirrel Girl having a retarded conversation with a demigod about gender pronouns.

tl;dr– It's the same thing i've always said. Nepotism is a self-correcting problem. Fill up enough prominent positions with unqualified family and friends (and fuckbuddies) and eventually your organization collapses under the weight of its own stupidity.

Google the Mark Waid/Devin Grayson controversy for example– Literally Who before Literally Who. Not to single them out though, this shit was rife throughout the industry

Grayson King
Grayson King

They have The Champions comic book, but in issue #5 they featured Gwenpool and she slammed the whole premise to the ground when she kept pointing out how boring the comic was.
Bullshit. No way. I don't believe you. It's too perfect.

Henry Perry
Henry Perry

Holy fuck, storytime, nao! Nevermind, i'll do it myself.

Parker King
Parker King

Try this again.

Jackson Cox
Jackson Cox

Botched last page, not that it'll make much difference.

What a shit comic. All these superpowered beings and they're in a stereotypical 80's bigot town chasing after muh evil drumpff rayciss's.

Jesus Christ, is everyone asleep at the wheel. I heard the rumors about Mark Waid being terrible nowadays, but I had no idea things were this dire. This is absolute dreck.

Jacob Cox
Jacob Cox

Goddamit, wasted enough brain cells on this shit story.

Oliver Green
Oliver Green

This is what fans of Marvel have to deal with

Alexander Morris
Alexander Morris

let's keep hiring writers and artists who taunt our loyal fans
this'll work, surely this will work!
Sad thing is that Marvel is so fucked up that even if they got their shit together I still wouldn't go back. IDW is about there, and DC is close to that line.

Ian Sanchez
Ian Sanchez

EVS can take this guy to court right?

Noah Young
Noah Young

let's keep hiring writers and artists who taunt our loyal fans
this'll work, surely this will work!
picrelated.jpg

It's kinda like having someone you considered a close friend say they always thought you were a worthless piece of shit.

Even if they apologize, you can never really look at them the same way.

It really feels like they want all old comic fans to fuck off, on some calculated gambit that there's a legion of new fans lining up to take their place, fans with the right politics. It's a fool's gambit from my perspective– comics are far too expensive for casual hobbyists, and much too esoteric, you have to be a dedicated fan to even begin to try to penetrate comics. Like that Champions story– Why is Cyclops a kid now? Why is he with the Champions and not the X-Men? Why is the adult Cyclops still in X-Men? Why is the Hulk in Champions? Oh wait, that's not Bruce Banner Hulk? Who the fuck is this guy? W..Wait, that's Ms. Marvel. Well, who's the lady in the new movie? You have to be a goddam Rhodes scholar to keep up with this shit.

Caleb Howard
Caleb Howard

It really pisses me off that these same people will watch a movie/show that tries to teach you about the cycle of revenge and how the only way to break it is forgiveness, and they'll sit there and nod their head and say, "That is SO wise" and then do this shit.

Jace Long
Jace Long

They stopped accepting unsolicited submissions.
To be fair, submissions have never really been a way to "break in" since they're just another slush pile most editors never bother with. DC and Marvel doing away with dealing with unsolicited stuff was inevitable in that sense, plus it's redundant when publishing by yourself has become easier if not sustainable for everyone. It's no real secret that anybody looking to "break in" has to figure their own way in because there is no one door.

busiek.com/site/2009/06/21/breaking-in-without-rules/
jimzub.com/how-do-i-break-in/

Gabriel Collins
Gabriel Collins

how boring the comic was.
oh shit here we go again!

John Nelson
John Nelson

The difference is Deadpool was good.

Jaxon Reyes
Jaxon Reyes

One of your keys is jammed user.

Jose Williams
Jose Williams

It's not because the characters fans were invested in for literal years were replaced by new, less-interesting versions of what is fundamentally the same character at the same time that highly successful movies came out about the original characters

Connor Parker
Connor Parker

If I'm being as negative as possible.

Comic books have a multitude of problems currently, with the SJW agenda pushing simply being the most prevalent and observable. And while I will get into that I want to start out with the long standing poison that has been killing the industry. That poison is the refusal to move forward with characters and stories outside of some genera defining work that is universally praised. After any given run is done, you can more or less expect the next run to throw away any and all character development to start up a new story. This way of story telling isn't necessarily a problem until you've been doing it for decades and because of the way you run your business discourage the creation of any new characters. Titles like Amazing Fantasy no longer seem to exist, largely eliminated by the drive for profitable books while not re-investing at least some of that money into churning out interesting new characters. There's not enough guts to look at a fairly popular character and rather than milk them forever to say "He's had a great run over the years, lets bench him in universe and let him rest or retire for a time and push a new character."

This trend of stagnation has made the SJW takeover of the industry all the more apparent. So for decades Marvel seems to go out of its way to ignore as much character development or change in the status quo as possible only to suddenly introduce the Burger King Kids Klub on crack? You had a problem, and rather than use medicine it seems that you've been talked into using holistic treatments. And just like holistic medicine and other faith healing, it feels good to do. It satisfies some emotional need for validation to do these things. To replace old characters with new characters and finally 'progress' the story. But just as with those fake treatments, you don't cure the problem, only mask it and ignore it. You introduced a bunch of characters that nobody likes because you can't challenge them. Hell people have been screaming at you the exact phrase, "These characters are to perfect and never falter or fail or are shown reaching a low point." For years at this point and yet I've still yet to see anything happen. But why would you listen to your doctor about your health, you've seen the voodoo priestess and she explained that you'll be fine as long as you keep doing the same thing. You've simply replaced beloved characters that at least had incidental development and familiarity with new characters that you dare not attempt to even challenge for fear that you may upset someone in the audience.

Getting into this further. You are hiring impossibly aggressive people to do this. Little Lisa Simpsons who think that their rigidly held consensus viewpoints are somehow counter culture. As if anyone cares about women or a minority being a character. I mean hell, even the people saying 'we waz kangz' are just shitposting to get under your skin and don't care. You think in this day and age, with the economic realities people are facing that they are going to devote any effort whatsoever to hating someone because of something like that? But you do think it. You think it, and you think that by just saying 'here's a woman version of X' or 'heres this character as minority Y' that you're blowing peoples minds. You aren't, nobody cares, and your writing sucks because you're so busy putting up a sign advertising your views that you never sat down and thought 'what kind of story can I tell with these characters' outside of 'I can explain to a western audience that being mean based on skin color or gender is wrong, the same way they've been getting this message for the past 30 years.'

One of my first comic books, and the first that I was able to read myself as a child, was Captain America 407. A book in which he was turned into a werewolf and had to foil a crazy cultist who wanted to use the self help movement to lure people in, indoctrinate them into his cult and turn them into werewolves, and then use them to take over the world. To this day I still love it. Do you know why? It presented a villain, it gave you his plan, and the hero worked to stop him. The messed up thing is, the things you put up on the shelf these days can't even do that. One of the ONLY positive marvel memes in the past few years is Sauron saying "But I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs." It's very obvious that this genera centers around heroes doing things nobody else can do to save the day, but you're constantly striving to show that the day isn't worth saving, so why should anyone care? Is your 'deconstruction' of basic story telling so important that you'll sacrifice other peoples passions to make your point?

Sorry for wall of poorly written autistic screeching, but this stuff builds up over time and sometimes you just have to get it out.

Nathaniel Miller
Nathaniel Miller

Oh, and the TL:DR-

Your shitty writing is just making a problem even worse. And rather than being abrasive to fans, maybe you should think up some new foe for these characters to fight so we can get behind them, like were-dinosaurs or some other bullshit.

Anthony Phillips
Anthony Phillips

Almost everything
Then what went right, exactly?

Bentley White
Bentley White

Unbelievable Gwenpool and Immortal Iron Fists were good.

Liam Clark
Liam Clark

gwenpool is good for doing the same fucking thing every comic has done since the 1970s

Jonathan Kelly
Jonathan Kelly

Can't argue with those sweet dubs.

Ryan Barnes
Ryan Barnes

How many times has she fucked Norman Osborne?

Oliver Jones
Oliver Jones

No, Gwenpool is good because it has solid writing, good art, and interesting characters. Comics don't have to reinvent the wheel to have any of that stuff.

Then again, as so graciously illustrates, you probably haven't read the comic and think it's MEME-POOL Gwen Stacy. Sad.

Henry Roberts
Henry Roberts

HOW MANY TIMES?!?!?!

Angel Richardson
Angel Richardson

None. Gwenpool is a pure, virginal, autist.

Which is why her book is getting canned this month.

James Hall
James Hall

None. She's not Gwen Stacy. She's Gwendolyn Poole

Cameron Peterson
Cameron Peterson

Aside from actually making the book good and tying a decent writer and a great artist to it, not having her be Gwen Stacy was incredibly smart.

Jace Turner
Jace Turner

But she started as just a Gwen Stacy alternate.

Nathan Long
Nathan Long

But in the actual comic she's not. Wolverine was originally a fucking Mountie. But arguing that he's not an X-man would be retarded.

David Hernandez
David Hernandez

Just give it up, its obvious you didn't read the fucking book why are you trying so hard to avoid the answer?

Kayden Brown
Kayden Brown

And they wonder why Marvel sales are so bad.

Brandon Mitchell
Brandon Mitchell

And if I went into Victoria's secret, they would assume I'm buying for my girlfriend. There's nothing wrong with understanding demographics.

James Fisher
James Fisher

How long do you spend on twitter harvesting these screenshots, user?

Brody Robinson
Brody Robinson

He isn't from around here, $10 he copies and pastes them from cuckchan.

Carter Myers
Carter Myers

What is it with their need to invent stories where they're 'discriminated against' in comic book shops. I've never been in a comic book shop (or any shop) where the sales assistants didn't pretty much leave you alone unless you wanted to know where something is or until it was time to pay

Jeremiah Anderson
Jeremiah Anderson

That would explain why this thread suddenly jumped to the front page after three weeks of inactivity.

Gavin Cox
Gavin Cox

A lot of weird shit has been happening ever since Clover got 8ch functionality. You can tell it in the Anons too, we got overly moderated retards, more spammers, niggers who can't spell for shit, more crappy reddit short-speak….etc..

Bentley Carter
Bentley Carter

The patriarchy is only as real as they allow it to be. They need it to be real to justify their politics and that means there must be a first-hand account of its effects on women

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