Overrated Villains Thread

Adam Kelly
Adam Kelly

literally just a big brute who smashes his way through everything yet is pimped as some master fighter
is supposed to be incredibly smart yet most of his master plans rely on heroes being positively braindead
introduced in Knightfall, one of the shittiest, most infuriatingly stupid comic events of the 90's
has some of the most insane fanboys around who get mad if Bane isn't winning 24/7 against everyone and whinge about it being PIS, causing writers to repeatedly showcase grand stories where Bane is some kind of super-mastermind who wrecks everyone

Seriously, fuck Bane. How this stupid wreck of a character managed to become so popular is beyond me.

Christian Brooks
Christian Brooks

Gee, I wonder who's behind this thread

Zachary Morales
Zachary Morales

There's no need to be like that. If you wanted a bait thread why didn't you just say so?

I'll start: King of the Hill is shit

Jaxson Wright
Jaxson Wright

Admirable but mistaken.

Isaiah Reyes
Isaiah Reyes

/hothead/index.html

Grayson Wright
Grayson Wright

Big brute
Yes he takes a drug that gives more strength agility and muscle mass as side effect, so what?
is supposed to be incredibly smart yet most of his master plans rely on heroes being positively braindead
They practically are
introduced in Knightfall, one of the shittiest, most infuriatingly stupid comic events of the 90's
It was fine, fucking overrated
has some of the most insane fanboys around who get mad if Bane isn't winning 24/7 against everyone and whinge about it being PIS, causing writers to repeatedly showcase grand stories where Bane is some kind of super-mastermind who wrecks everyone
Because he was a good match for Batman, only second to Joker, you expect him to not just be reduced to an ogre like idiots who don't understand like you do.
How this stupid wreck of a character managed to become so popular is beyond me.
Because he was the most memorable person to beat Batman.

Matthew Harris
Matthew Harris

Bane?

Ryan Baker
Ryan Baker

This thread didn't fly so good.

Kevin Williams
Kevin Williams

fuck bane
But it would be extremely painful.

Aiden Kelly
Aiden Kelly

You are big guy.

Dominic Diaz
Dominic Diaz

Were not for the only memorable scene of that shitty movie, all of you faggots would have agreed with OP.

Adrian Carter
Adrian Carter

OP looking for a hill to die on
Bane
OP: Good enough

Bentley Jones
Bentley Jones

Lot of loyalty for a hired user.

Christopher Sanders
Christopher Sanders

meh, killbane was pretty decent in sr3, one of the more memorable villains of the series.

Isaiah Myers
Isaiah Myers

If I pressed LT would he die?

Grayson Powell
Grayson Powell

It would be extremely painful to play SR3 instead of SR2 or 4

Camden Gomez
Camden Gomez

If I like Bane will you die?

Kayden Perry
Kayden Perry

Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot an user, before throwing him out of a plane?

Ryan Perez
Ryan Perez

Somebody get this hothead outta here!

Joshua Wood
Joshua Wood

SR3 was the best game in the series though.

Xavier Turner
Xavier Turner

posts a fact
says it's bait
Huh?

Nathan Peterson
Nathan Peterson

2 is a 9/10, 3 is an 8, 4 is a 6.

Lincoln Reyes
Lincoln Reyes

I need edge in muh Saints Row

Hey Yahtzee.

Wyatt Morris
Wyatt Morris

Wouldn't Joker count? I like Joker but he gets over used and they have edged him up since the 80's.

Aaron Morris
Aaron Morris

OP tried to trash-talk the big guy
Thread derailed with no survivors
I mean, what else do you expect ?
Fucking hotheads…

Luke Diaz
Luke Diaz

ITT: baneposters demonstrate why they are a cancer that must be purged from existence

Henry Phillips
Henry Phillips

SOMEBODY GET THIS HOTHEAD OUTTA HERE!

Levi Hernandez
Levi Hernandez

talk shit
get hit
act like you didn't get hit and talk more shit

Jackson Brooks
Jackson Brooks

Was getting asshurt part of your plan?

Nicholas Foster
Nicholas Foster

most of his masten plans rely on fags who constantly jump around in latex suits and never kill anyone to be heroes
Whoa that sounds specific

Caleb Evans
Caleb Evans

Harley Quinn is such a pile of shit and always was. Joker never needed a sidekick and now that they're meming her into being female deadpool it's somehow even worse.

Ian Myers
Ian Myers

I used to like Harley but she's only bearable in small doses. Most of the time she's annoying as fuck and ruins other characters who are dragged into her shit (Joker, Poison Ivy). She really needs to just be killed off for a decade or so.

Leo Peterson
Leo Peterson

Do you feel in charge?

Jacob Smith
Jacob Smith

The problem isn't the character so much as the writers. DC made Kevin Smith a promise that only he would be allowed to write Onomatopoeia. What they should have done is make a similar promise with Dini and Harley Quinn

Jaxon Butler
Jaxon Butler

Don't need edge, I just prefer it being grounded, makes the wackier shit funny, but when its wacky 24/7, it loses it.

Evan Davis
Evan Davis

This is my favorite design. I don't know why they kept messing with Bane's mask or why they don't give him that pimp-ass jacket.

Jacob Jones
Jacob Jones

Poison Ivy

Whose idea was it to make her a dyke anyway?

Brandon Phillips
Brandon Phillips

But Onomatopoeia was in Teen Titans #13/#14 and Kevin Smith's name is no where in the credits..

Jordan Watson
Jordan Watson

Knowing fanboy Smith he probably cucked out later, but that was the initial arrangement. He was Smith's character and only Smith could use him (which thankfully meant his appearances were sporadic).

Samuel Wilson
Samuel Wilson

Wasn't Onomatopoeia supposed to show up in Arrow when Kevin Smith was going to direct an episode? That would have been hilarious, this Michael Myers/Rorschach type killer running around saying "pew pew pew POW SOCK stab stab stab bounce bounce bleed bleed bleed". What happened, didn't the fans chase him off or something?

And how come DC are honouring their promise, and not Frank Miller's similar arrangement with Marvel over Elektra? Oh yeah, Smith has a lawyer.

Bentley Wright
Bentley Wright

Paul Dini.

Ethan Barnes
Ethan Barnes

And how come DC are honouring their promise, and not Frank Miller's similar arrangement with Marvel over Elektra?
You answered your own fucking question. They're different companies. Miller even said DC respect him more

Samuel Gonzalez
Samuel Gonzalez

Dini's. I wouldn't really hate the change so much if it didn't lead to Ivy's character getting completely bastardized in the long run.

Jaxon King
Jaxon King

Wasn't it turned out that Poison Ivy is now seeing Dr. Alec Holland and the Ivy we see in New Adventures is a construct.

Matthew Cruz
Matthew Cruz

would have been better if he had his original identity. He was originally going to be Cyrus Temple under the mask, working to take down the syndicate from the inside.

Adam Jackson
Adam Jackson

Dini never made her a dyke

Isaiah Martin
Isaiah Martin

Didn't Dini write the Batman Adventures comic where it was first implied, really heavily, that Harley and Ivy were more than friends?

Hudson Gray
Hudson Gray

'Really heavily' implies they all but dyked out. All they did was share a cheap ass hotel room with one bed in it.

Furthermore, pretty much all the Ivy centric episodes written by Dini involve her using her sexuality to get what she wants. In 'Pretty Poison' she gets Harvey Dent to go out on a date with her, wherein she poisons him with her lipstick. In 'House and Garden' she marries her doctor and keeps him tied up in the basement whilst she uses his DNA to create clones of him so she can steal stuff

I dunno what they've done with her in recent comics but I suspect people are conflating 'femme fatale' with 'full blown lesbian'

Lincoln Gonzalez
Lincoln Gonzalez

Pretty sure Paul Dini said that the only reason he wasn't more explicit with them was because they didn't allow it in a children's cartoon. As for what DC are doing today, here's an excerpt from an article from 2015.
A popular duo, fans have oft-speculated if there’s something more going on between Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy than just a close friendship, and during a special Twitter event last Friday where Harley Quinn writers Jimmy Palmiotti and Amanda Conner were taking questions over the official DC Twitter account, one fan took the liberty of asking, “Are Harley and Ivy girlfriends? Please confirm this.” Later, the official response came in loud and clear: “Yes, they are girlfriends without the jealousy of monogamy,” confirming a relationship between Harley and Ivy, and hinting that it may even go on while Harley is with the Joker.

Ethan Myers
Ethan Myers

Pretty sure Paul Dini said that the only reason he wasn't more explicit with them was because they didn't allow it in a children's cartoon.
And yet, when he had a forum where he could make them full-blown lesbians, he didn't. Someone else, with no idea what 'subtle' means, did it instead.

Levi Morris
Levi Morris

Again, New Adventures comic where Ivy has been with Alec Holland while the Ivy we see in New Adventures turned out to be a plant clone..

Kevin Thompson
Kevin Thompson

Also from that New Adventures comic? Joe Chill jumping off a building because of him seeing Batman unmasked…turns out dude was paranoid, seeing Bruce Wayne everywhere and he thought he saw another hallucination…and the funny part is? Batman doesn't even recognize Chill.

Logan Phillips
Logan Phillips

literally just a big brute who smashes his way through everything yet is pimped as some master fighter
Blame Nolan for portraying Bane as some military commando and turning the character into a meme.

Aaron Cook
Aaron Cook

I don't have a problem with military mastermind Bane since that was apparently the idea behind the character…the issue is that Bane isn't portrayed in a way consistent with it. For example, Bane: Conquest which constantly tries to sell me on the concept of Bane as some super-criminal-badass but then has his "genius" boil down to just smashing and brute-forcing his way through everything.

Then you have his fans, who are completely fucking insufferable which leads to shit like Bane making a joke out of guys like KGBeast and Killer Croc in a straight-up fight, despite the fact that either of them should be able to make mincemeat out of him in a direct confrontation just based on their showings. You can't bitch about writers portraying Bane as a dumb brute when that's what writers who apparently "get him" like Dixon also do.

Oliver Gomez
Oliver Gomez

Good times, good times.

Benjamin Carter
Benjamin Carter

Didn't Bane lose to Croc a little while back? He managed to beat him by cutting open his veins and draining the venom out of his body.
Banefags were pissed.

Carson Jones
Carson Jones

wrestling was popular in the 90's

John Kelly
John Kelly

Well, mid-90's at least…when was the NWO angle again?

Joshua Smith
Joshua Smith

BUENO

Sebastian Morgan
Sebastian Morgan

Tell that the still existing WWF and ECW faggots.

Caleb Sanders
Caleb Sanders

Purple Man. Someone who got his ass kicked by a blind man will always be a bitch, no matter how OP his power is

Sebastian Price
Sebastian Price

Early and mid 90's it was popular as hell, it was the mid 90's when it hit rock bottom
And it hit rock-bottom again after Benoit killed himself

Jose Reed
Jose Reed

They cancelled the idea when they realized it would be exactly as stupid as you're describing.

Christian Rivera
Christian Rivera

Bane

He was just a regular villain, like those ones from Iron Man.

How this stupid wreck of a character managed to become so popular is beyond me.

Beause the last movie, that is why people give a shit now.

Just wait when somebody make another movie with other regular villain like Killer Croc.

Logan Morgan
Logan Morgan

But I love Baneposting and I agree with OP

Landon Anderson
Landon Anderson

the issue is that Bane isn't portrayed in a way consistent with it. For example, Bane: Conquest which constantly tries to sell me on the concept of Bane as some super-criminal-badass but then has his "genius" boil down to just smashing and brute-forcing his way through everything.
90% of the Batman villains who are said to be geniuses are just ordinary or dumb characters with excessive plot armor who act "smart".
Bane is an overpowered 90s villain who defined himself by being able to beat the shit out of people. That's all he has. That's why his fans are so obsessed with him being infallible and bitch whenever he loses to someone or is rightfully pointed out as a gimmicky has-been. The only difference between Bane and Doomsday is that no one tries to pretend Doomsday is an actual character.
It makes more sense even when you know Chuck Dixon created Bane as an evil Doc Savage, and Doc Savage himself is one of the most insufferable Mary Sues in fiction (the term didn't even exist when he was created but it absolutely defines what he is).

Not that my dislike for Bane as a character stops me from Baneposting.

Chase Rivera
Chase Rivera

The only difference between Bane and Doomsday is that no one tries to pretend Doomsday is an actual character.

Gavin Morris
Gavin Morris

It never ceases to baffle me how does this piece of shit non-character has fans

Noah James
Noah James

Hush was such garbage.

Sebastian Ortiz
Sebastian Ortiz

Just wait when somebody make another movie with other regular villain like Killer Croc.

implying a movie with batman hunting cajun killer croc in the bayou wouldn't be GOAT

Alexander Allen
Alexander Allen

GOAT
I don't it means what you think it means user

Easton Hughes
Easton Hughes

I see your Hush and I'll raise you: Black Mask.
They are both practically the same character right down to the same retarded backstory involving a hamfisted connection with Bruce Wayne (except at least Roman went crazy due to being bitten by a raccoon where as Elliot killed his family cause lolsoevil).
It pains me that this hollow excuse for a villain is now considered a "classic" Batman villain and has swept superior gangster villains like Penguin and Two-Face and Scarface under the rug, but it pains me even more because when I actually read Doug Moench's original stories I realized that this character could have actually been really awesome.

The original Doug Moench Black Mask had an look more reminiscent of the Dick Tracy and pulp villains that preceded Batman's rogues and served as a almost needed throwback. And while his backstory was pants-on-head retarded, the character still had interesting things about him like his relationship with Circe, his absolute fixation on the power of masks and the moments where his persona cracks and his insecurity comes through, and I still think the False Face Society is a fantastic idea that could have led to awesome stories if pushed further. It's abundantly clear that Doug Moench absolutely loved his character and wanted him to be the next big Batman villain (even introducing him as "Crazier than the Joker and more dangerous than Ra's al Ghul"), and while this was a terrible idea, the character had potential.

But instead, when he was brought back after No Man's Land as Catwoman's villain, virtually all of these ideas were completely scrapped and instead he was reduced to the edgy Kingpin clone most people know him as (and apparently like for some reason). They completely changed his design and made him a skull-faced man in a suit, and now he was just defined as a big boss in Gotham who really liked torture and absolutely nothing else. And somehow, he stuck around to make substantial appearences in War Games, Nightwing, Under the Hood and other sagas.

I have a triple dissapointment with Black Mask.
Dissappointed that he is such a one-dimensional, pointless and edgy character who actually has fans despite having, in his current version, absolutely nothing interesting about him that other generic thugs couldn't do.
Dissappointed that he resembles in absolutely no way, shape or form the original Doug Moench creation who is far more interesting and entertaining.
And dissappointed that he still managed to spawn a worse clone of himself in the form of Hush.

Caleb Cooper
Caleb Cooper

dissapointment
Dissappointed
what are you doing

Blake Brown
Blake Brown

something really, really good

Brandon Mitchell
Brandon Mitchell

I kinda liked Doc Savage..the fact that he lobotomizes crooks that he caught kinda makes him an evil Superman. Then again, pulp era heroes have no qualms about killing their foes…except it kinda got difficult that you can't reuse villains because most of the time, they died in their debut story.

Hudson Foster
Hudson Foster

Lets be honest: Killer Croc is just another regular villain as Bane, unless you're hard fan (or read some comics), nobody knows who is.

Today Bane is "popular" now just by a movie, nothing more.

Juan Sullivan
Juan Sullivan

I kinda liked his origin that the mask he wore isn't to hide his identity, it's to show who he really is..because his parents are dicks in private but in public they wear this "mask" showing that they are really nice folks.

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers

Or you remembered Croc's infamous "I THREW A ROCK AT HIM" from B:TAS.

Eli Anderson
Eli Anderson

Nigga it wasn't even Killer Croc but Batman disguised as him in that episode.

Benjamin Reyes
Benjamin Reyes

the fact that he lobotomizes crooks that he caught kinda makes him an evil Superman
I actually think this is absolutely fucking horrifying and it only makes me more incapable of liking him despite being a huge fan of pulp characters.
I get that it was a different time and back then nobody really understand how brain medicine worked, and that as far as most people concerned Doc was just magically fixing their brains with the power of science.
But that shit absolutely does not fly today and it's an aspect of the character most people have to try and ignore. It's only made worse by the fact that virtually every Doc Savage story drills into your head that he is the most moral man on the universe and whenever he has crossovers with The Shadow or whatever, he is treated like the person with the absolute moral high ground just because The Shadow kills criminals and Doc doesn't.
(And The Shadow actually had a prison colony of his own, but it was an asylum run by a professional criminologist and close friend of his who took in willing criminals and helped them through psychology to become better people, with no fucking brain surgeries involved. And yet he is depicted as a blood hungry sadist while Doc is the perfect boy scout.)

Then again, pulp era heroes have no qualms about killing their foes…
This has far less to do with them being violent characters and more to do with how things were back then.
The pulps were from a time before Miranda rights and the emphasis on burden of proof and criminal rights. Batman would not be allowed to let the Joker get away with blowing up school buses 100 times in a row back then (and he didn't initially, Bill Finger protested the idea of bringing Joker back too many times).
Not to mention, they were released during the period of the Great Depression as well as early stages of World War 2. A costumed vigilante shooting a bad guy in the face in cheap literature really wasn't a big deal then and people had far bigger concerns.

Christopher Jackson
Christopher Jackson

Wasn't he the one who was supposed to have tortured and killed Stephanie Brown, in one of Bill Willinghams' trademark "reality ensues" moments?
But that was PROBLEMATICAL, so it was retconned to, well, I don't know, what kind of torture with a power drill and a hacksaw can you do that leaves the victim looking like a Playboy bunny? An exfoliation?

Willingham always shat me, he's a one-trick pony, he uses all the cape tropes, and then kills someone and calls the reader a nerd for reading comics.
Like the time in Elementals' letters page where he goes off at a reader for asking why Morningstar can't use her fire powers to fly, he says a log doesn't take off because it's on fire! Yeah, yeah, Bill, that's so unrealistic compared to a woman who is a walking flamethrower.
You're so much better than Marvel, you're such a grown-up, all those sex issues that come pre-bagged really turn me on, let me suck your dick, nom nom nom.

Jace Lee
Jace Lee

Moar liek

Henry Ramirez
Henry Ramirez

Phillip Jose Farmer's "A Feast Unknown" had Doc's (or at least his expie, Doc Caliban's) sidekicks discussing how brain surgery doesn't actually work to remove someone's criminal tendencies, that we now know it's environmental factors, and wondering what he's actually up to…

Christian Jones
Christian Jones

I appreciate Phillip Jose Farmer's works and the Wold Newton project even if they are absolutely insane.

Robert Ramirez
Robert Ramirez

Prison colony? I thought the only rehab criminals get from the Shadow is either from his M1911s…or the Shadow just happens to rescue a criminal and said criminal is in the Shadow's debt for life.

Adam Carter
Adam Carter

That's the idea the recent comics and Razorfist love to get across, that The Shadow is a cold sociopath who enslaves agents with blood debts and wants to murder every criminal he can get his hands on. And unfortunately far too many versions of The Shadow prefer to write him this way
But if you go back and read the pulps you'll see a character who's far more empathetic, human and downright playful, while still being the mysterious and impressively capable master of darkness. The pulps humanized him via his interaction with agents and the way he pulled them from despair and gradually gave them purpose. The idea that his agents are slaves and that The Shadow is a sociopath couldn't be further from the truth.

Like in The Salamanders when The Shadow throws himself into a furnace to rescue his agent Harry Vincent, personally bandages his hands, puts him to rest and then dashes off when learning that hundreds of civilians are in danger (and the narration outright states that to him, protecting Harry is more important than taking out the criminals)
Or all the scenes where he as The Shadow continuously plays tricks with Joe Cardona like giving him written tips with dissappearing ink, only to praise his competence to the Commissioner as Lamont Cranston and help him whenever needed.
Or when he and Lamont Cranston team up to take down criminals together (like in The Hydra) and demonstrate to be on good terms even despite their weird relationship (which is a stark contrast to the post-Chaykin comics which depict Cranston as a coward who hates and fears The Shadow)
Or scenes where The Shadow has to actually rely on an agent to help him get out of trouble (usually Cliff Marsland).
Even scenes where he just unexpectedly trips on something or has to pause amidst an escape to catch his breath while the narration explains in detail the complicated efforts he goes through to pull off his stunts (Gibson was a professional magician and this showed a lot in his writing)

There's plenty of times that the only reason the villain died is because they were a moron who tried to escape/attack at the last second, and otherwise would have been turned over to the police. The Shadow Laughs (the third pulp) ends with the murderous villains killing themselves in a car crash and their accomplice (not guilty of murder but still a criminal) being turned over to the police and instructed by The Shadow via notes on how to explain his involvement and serve time. Give Kings of Crime, The Radium Murders, The Broken Napoleons and especially Road of Crime a read too, those stories have a good emphasis on The Shadow's redemption of criminals.
Obviously the

Part of what made The Shadow interesting is that he portrayed himself as being this cold, invincible, inhuman force of nature, and he had the skills to back it up. But the stories also showcased him miscalculating, being foiled by lucky henchmen, and abandoning undercover operations to rescue hapless agents, and being incredibly thoughtful, and eccentric, and proud of the people who dedicated their lives to him.
There is so much more to The Shadow than the guns and laughter and detective-ing that even fans often reduce him to and so little of it ever got past the pulps.

Levi Jackson
Levi Jackson

I always figured that Hush was popular with 90's kiddies who were too young to get exposed to Batman comics as children and thus were completely oblivious to the existence of Black Mask, Ra's al Ghul, Hugo Strange, Bane and probably a dozen other Batman villains who were doing the "childhood friend/knows Batman's true identity" shtick years before.

The problem with Moench's original Black Mask is that he was kind of a loser and a laughing stock who failed at pretty much fucking everything he ever attempted (although that may just boil down to Doug Moench being a hit and miss writer whose intentions don't often translate that well to the page). While the whole fixation with masks and identities angle was pretty cool, I can see why DC wanted to reinvent the character.

Austin Young
Austin Young

The problem with Moench's original Black Mask is that he was kind of a loser and a laughing stock who failed at pretty much fucking everything he ever attempted (although that may just boil down to Doug Moench being a hit and miss writer whose intentions don't often translate that well to the page)
It really is mostly due to Doug Moench being a weird writer with cool ideas he doesn't really know how to translate a lot of the time. I like him a lot and find him much more interesting than any of DC's current writers, but I prefer him as a Moon Knight writer.
As I said, it's obvious Doug Moench desperately wanted this guy to be the biggest baddest coolest Batman villain ever. You pretty much have to be desperate when you introduce a character promoting him as crazier than the Joker and deadlier than Ra's al Ghul (another character who really stuck around mostly because of immense author shilling, although it helps that Denny O'Neil was just really good at writing Batman).

But I think being a loser and a failure was actually one of the sole interesting things Black Mask had going for him then. He was a pathetic sociopath who tried desperately to be something larger than himself via the fixation on the masks and the status he wanted to achieve as Black Mask. I'm not saying he was a greatly written character, not even really a good one. But like the best Batman villains, the character at least had a dychotomy to him that brought him closer to Batman and gave room for future writers to expand on.
And in general, for as much shit as they get, the Batman villains who are losers (Penguin and Riddler in the 70s, Killer Moth, Kite-Man) are still more fondly remembered by fans than the Batman villains who are invincible, unlikable edgelords (Dr.Hurt and Hush), even if it takes a while. Unfortunately, DC didn't get the memo.

John Morales
John Morales

the fact that he lobotomizes crooks that he caught kinda makes him an evil Superman.
Is this where Timm & Co got the idea?

Dominic Sullivan
Dominic Sullivan

I only like Bane because of the Plane Scene.

Bentley Diaz
Bentley Diaz

Ra's al Ghul

Basically Dennis O'Neil trying to write a James Bond story with Batman. I also found it hilarious how hard he tried to shill Talia al Ghul as Batman's great love. I wonder how he feels over her character basically getting all but destroyed by Grant Morrison.

Black Mask

I think Black Mask could be great if DC fused some of his modern "Kingpin" aspects with his classic character from the Moench days. Then you'd have a pretty threatening mob boss with some really fucked-up mental issues that elevate his character above and beyond.

Dr.Hurt

I don't think anyone likes Dr. Hurt besides a bunch of hardcore Morrison fanboys who think everything he shits out is gold. Doesn't help that much like every other Morrison creation, he's less a character and more a plot device. Same reason why everyone outside of Morrison either writes Professor Pyg as a cheap Mad Hatter knock-off who talks like a demented schizophrenic or else tries to reinvent him with cheap gimmicks (Beware The Batman, Gotham).

Connor Smith
Connor Smith

Yeah, probably.

Aaron Flores
Aaron Flores

Never really did like Dr. Hurt..sure, he's the guy who's been playing Bats like a fiddle…but then he goes down to the ol' Banana Peel gag. And Morrison having to retcon a lot of Silver Age stuff so that it actually happened (Robin Dies at Dawn and such..still doesn't explain whatever happened to the original Batwoman and Batgirl though..) is commendable, especially since he just slotted in Hurt to be the doctor who helped Batman with the experiment…it just feel a tad forced though. I mean, retconning Thomas Jr. to be Hurt all along?

Luis Turner
Luis Turner

lobotimized Scarface but not the ventriloquist

every time

Connor Lee
Connor Lee

I think Supes know that the real terror is Scarface and not Wesker.

Jayden Reyes
Jayden Reyes

Yeah but for fucking videogames
GOAT=GAME OF ALL TIME

Cameron Hall
Cameron Hall

game
It's greatest

Caleb Russell
Caleb Russell

I also found it hilarious how hard he tried to shill Talia al Ghul as Batman's great love. I wonder how he feels over her character basically getting all but destroyed by Grant Morrison.
As someone who's never really cared for any of the League of Shadows stuff in Batman, and always found Talia to be one of the most boring Batman characters ever conceived, I still feel sorry for whoever liked her. She did not deserve to suffer such character assassination by Grant Morrison.

Same reason why everyone outside of Morrison either writes Professor Pyg as a cheap Mad Hatter knock-off who talks like a demented schizophrenic or else tries to reinvent him with cheap gimmicks
True. And I actually like Professor Pyg for how nutty he is and how he's allowed to do shit villains like The Joker would not.
Dr.Hurt was little more than a Villain Sue who overstayed his welcome and had nothing but cheap symbolism as his character.
Grant Morrison fanboys praise him for "breaking Batman" and coming "closer" to beating him than any other villain and completely neglect that characters like Hugo Strange and Deacon Blackfire had done the same thing before and better, because Morrison loves taking credit for originality that isn't actually original.

I think Black Mask could be great if DC fused some of his modern "Kingpin" aspects with his classic character from the Moench days. Then you'd have a pretty threatening mob boss with some really fucked-up mental issues that elevate his character above and beyond
That's fine and all but I wouldn't want DC to do that at the expense of the other threatening crime boss with fucked up mental issues in Batman's rogues gallery who is a far greater character than Black Mask: Two-Face.
Doug Moench's Black Mask almost felt like an attempt to recreate Harvey Dent but with a slightly different and less complicated gimmick, saying he wanted Black Mask to be a film noir type of villain for Batman, writing him as a childhood friend of Bruce with a more personal connection to him than other villains, and even incorporating Circe into his Two-Face saga (and yet he was terrible at writing Two-Face, go figure).
I think DC should instead play up the cult leader and pulp villain aspects of Black Mask and instead make the False Face Society the primary cult in Gotham, and Mask himself more of a crazy religious leader and extortionist.
For all the problems that show had, I think Gotham had the right idea when it comes to Roman's character and how to try and make him a unique part of Gotham.

Dylan Garcia
Dylan Garcia

I wonder how he feels over her character basically getting all but destroyed by Grant Morrison
Morrison didn't destroy her. Rucka did. Rucka gave her a 200 year old Russian half sister with muh holocaust as a backstory, and made Talia Batman's enemy. If Morrison subsequently shit all over her, it's because Rucka built the outhouse.

Hudson Hughes
Hudson Hughes

introduced in Knightfall, one of the shittiest, most infuriatingly stupid comic events of the 90's
Okay, I'll bite…
Were you born in 2000 or something?
No Man's Land
Death of Superman
Superman Red/Superman Blue
Maximum Carnage
The Clone Saga. The fucking Clone Saga
Spider-Man Post-Clone Saga
Eric Masterson Thor
Heroes Reborn (especially Captain America and The Avengers)
Zero Hour
Were all far worse and far stupider than Knightfall. In fact, KnightSaga, with its ample set-up and clear five act structure is one of the best events of its kind

Kevin Gomez
Kevin Gomez

There is no villain in existence (other than maybe the Joker) who is more overrated than Dr.Doom

Nathaniel Scott
Nathaniel Scott

Nice try, Richards.

Jose Morales
Jose Morales

shitting on DOOM
I want richardsfag to stay away from here

Brody Powell
Brody Powell

Doom is a cuck who thinks niggers are "superior physical specimens".

Leo Miller
Leo Miller

Hitler didn't want blacks competing at the 1936 Olympics because they outmatched all the white competitors

Josiah Adams
Josiah Adams

being used always for hard work
used in burger football since it's all about physics
even romans used them just to row boats since they had to do muscle movement
He knows they are stupid and they are only good for do heavy stuff /leftypol/ stop trying so hard to fit in reported

Brandon Edwards
Brandon Edwards

yes leftardpol, we know how much you love to suck nigger cock

Liam Parker
Liam Parker

Yes yes, let me guess, he was also a scat fetishist and had sex with his niece. Before and after having one of his testicles bitten off by a goat. Top propaganda, my ally.

Joseph Stewart
Joseph Stewart

samefagging
Pity user, I have just pity for you

Jonathan Sullivan
Jonathan Sullivan

Not actually overrated…just overused and most writers write him less of a villain but more anti-hero with a villainous streak. Except when Reginald Hudlin wrote him…then he was a racist prick.

Jack Martinez
Jack Martinez

implying SR2 wasn't a better GTA game than most GTA games now
implying SR4 isn't the crackdown sequel we needed but didn't deserve
SR3 didn't know what the fuck it wanted to be and suffered for it.

Evan Gomez
Evan Gomez

No Man's Land
shit

Them's fighting words, nigger.

Benjamin Butler
Benjamin Butler

It was. It was like The Clone Saga except that it knew where it was going. The idea came from one of Denny O'Neil's assistants and because Denny O'Neil was getting old, he deferred most of the work to them and the inexperience shows. It also gave us cancer like Devin Grayson and Greg Rucka. So yes, No Man's Land is shit and I will fite you.

Anthony Roberts
Anthony Roberts

Since Joker, Bane, and Hush are out of the way, it's gotta be Apokalypse. He is just another boring overpowered villain with genius intellect and who wants to take over the world and have the fittest survive. Despite all his amazing powers and being alive for 4000 years he didn't do all that much, and makes retarded mistake one after another. Apocalypse's underlings are more interesting than him, and best stories involving Apocalypse are ones where he isn't in.

Gabriel Gomez
Gabriel Gomez

And he keeps coming back again and again…heck, pretty sure Kid Apocalypse did a heel turn even after all the care given to the guy..because we gotta have Apocalypse. And somewhat related but damn if Apocalypse is the easiest boss in the MVC series.

Parker Gutierrez
Parker Gutierrez

godlike mutant that could have easily conquered the world and wiped out ancient mankind
<instead goes to sleep for thousands of years because "lol mutants can rule the world without me"

Nolan Peterson
Nolan Peterson

Is there a more all talk villain that Apocalypse? A villain that is supposed to be feared simply because we're told to fear him.

Aaron Morris
Aaron Morris

Is Apocalypse even all that popular? I get the impression that most X-Men fans don't really like him or even outright hate him.

Jaxson Walker
Jaxson Walker

As with a lot of shitty characters, he's popular with normalfags. Most shitty 90's X-Men characters are popular since the X-Men were at their height in comics and with the cartoon. Prime example is Gambit.

Jacob Cook
Jacob Cook

But nobody really likes Apocalypse except for the cartoon version (and even the latter it's mostly due to phenomenal voicework and his badass talk that he unfortunately can't back up)

As someone who's generally not an X-Men fan anymore it still upsets me how Apocalypse was wasted over the years. I think he could have been a really awesome villain.
He's someone who actually personifies the "survival of the fittest" rule and who, from the natural perspective, should rule the human race as the apex. And his backstory and concept promises a character who is an unapologetic survivor waging a war against the entire world who has never known anything but war since infancy and spent millenia trying to fight for what he feels is his (and can even be considered right from a survival of the fittest angle where the weak get eaten by the strong).
And unlike Magneto, he's not a sanctimonious asshat who gets far too many get-out-of-jail free cards and has a "Muh Holocaust". Instead, Apocalypse's concept promises a character who epitomizes the idea of the X-Men were as a franchise, a different take on superheroes based on exaggerated biological evolution and the consequences of it in someone's life.

Of course, all of this is what Apocalypse is as a concept of what he could be.
As a character, he is a sadly anti-climatic and generic supervillain who's been outclassed far too many times for his concept to hold up and for his personality to have any believability to it. He is one of Marvel's top jobbers and for as much as we complain about Doomwank, Apocalypse has sadly the opposite problem.
I feel like Vandal Savage has a similar problem of being far more talk than action but Vandal actually does do shit on occasion and he's a better written character (arguably because writers have managed to integrate his shortcomings into his personality and made him feel slightly more three-dimensional).

I disagree with the idea of Apocalypse is overrated.
I'm not call him underrated either.
But there's a part of me that really, really wishes this character was as great of a villain as his concept promises and wasn't just a silly perpetual jobber.

Joseph Morales
Joseph Morales

He's not as popular today, but from what I remember he was popular among X-fags throughout the late 90s and early 2000s, and was even considered one of the Marvel's great villains. Any place related to comics was infested with X-fags jerking each other off over Age of Apocalypse aka The Best Event Comic Ever and "mature and complex" narratives of X-men comics in general.

I disagree with the idea of Apocalypse is overrated.
I suppose he is not as popular anymore. I fell out of touch with Marvel Comics soon after Dark Reign. However, there were plenty of people excited about recent X-men film when it was revealed that Apocalypse will be in it.

Grayson Cooper
Grayson Cooper

Yeah, nothing beats the 90's Apocalypse voice…even loved the quotes. "I AM THE ROCK OF THE ETERNAL SHORE…CRASH UPON ME AND BE BROKEN!"

Jaxon Edwards
Jaxon Edwards

I AM AS FAR BEYOND MUTANTS AS THEY ARE BEYOND YOU

Matthew Young
Matthew Young

Dr.Doom is a really fucking good villain. He's overrated because people fawn over the series where he's poorly written, but as a concept and in his best stories, he's one of my favorite villains.

I love that he's as confident in the things he does as the heroes are in what they do. At Doom's best he doesn't stand around justifying the things he does, because he doesn't give a fuck whether people think it's justified or not. He knows it is, so he does it. As much as it's wanked over I love the Doomwar session with the Panther Spirit because it showed off that Doom backs up his talk with actions to match.

That's part of why I think Darkseid is overrated. Pages like this are really fucking good, but then they fall flat when you realize everyone and their mother has kicked the shit out of Darkseid. He's beloved by redditors but writers keep whoring him out and having him beat by people he should be wiping the floor with. The guy's a fucking New God strong enough to go toe-to-toe with Highfather, at least let him beat Superman around for a page or two before Superman takes him out in one punch.

Jaxon Jackson
Jaxon Jackson

Dr. Doom being a humanitarian is the best Doom, only because there is a VERY good chance he's only being a humanitarian just to subtly tell Reed he's fucking useless.

Brandon Brown
Brandon Brown

Doom was best when Reed wasn't "I can do anything I want at any moment with science".
I liked when Doom was able to cure Ben Grimm but then chose not to just to prove to Richards he could do what Richards couldn't. I like the Doom who hates Richards so much that he wants to save the World just to make Richards feel like a dumbass

Ayden Powell
Ayden Powell

I like that Darkseid wears 501® Jeans.

Jaxson Phillips
Jaxson Phillips

And unlike Magneto, he's not a sanctimonious asshat who gets far too many get-out-of-jail free cards and has a "Muh Holocaust".

Speaking of Magneto, he's probably top of the fucking list when it comes to insanely overrated villains.

I feel that Dr. Doom kind of has the Hush problem in that his origin and motives are insanely fucking stupid. Part of the reason why I think Doom's best stories are where he's not perpetually obsessed with fucking over Reed Richards for petty shit.

Speaking of which, Reed has to be one of the most boring and unlikable heroes who nevertheless has everything a man could want. Marvel really needs to do a story one of these days where Richards gets royally fucked by life front, back and sideways just to see his character when he's not being perpetually amazing.

That's part of why I think Darkseid is overrated. Pages like this are really fucking good, but then they fall flat when you realize everyone and their mother has kicked the shit out of Darkseid. He's beloved by redditors but writers keep whoring him out and having him beat by people he should be wiping the floor with. The guy's a fucking New God strong enough to go toe-to-toe with Highfather, at least let him beat Superman around for a page or two before Superman takes him out in one punch.

Darkseid's problems really began with John Byrne when he decided to turn him into just another generic super-villain for Superman to beat up, thus culminating in the damage to the New Gods' mythos to the extent where Wonder Woman fans were recently throwing a hissy-fit because Darkseid beat the shit out of Zeus. Hell, even before that DC basically flanderized Darkseid by turning him into the Ultimate God Of Evil, thus killing all of the mythological themes and surprisingly layered depth of Kirby's Darkseid. That last story to come close to doing Kirby's Darkseid justice was, ironically, Justice League: Gods and Monsters.

Jace Scott
Jace Scott

I AM APOCALYPSE! LOOK UPON THE FUTURE AND TREMBLE!

Charles Watson
Charles Watson

Honestly, I do like the DCAU version of Darkseid..the fact that Superman can barely take him down even after he cut loose really says something about Darkseid.

Carter Smith
Carter Smith

I feel that Dr. Doom kind of has the Hush problem in that his origin and motives are insanely fucking stupid. Part of the reason why I think Doom's best stories are where he's not perpetually obsessed with fucking over Reed Richards for petty shit.
Couldn't disagree with you more on that one. I like that he's motivated out of many things, but most grandly out of sheer hatred for Reed Richards. Like he would never save the day, unless he was able to make Reed Richards look like a shithead while doing it. A guy whose intentions are based around one-upping Reed Richards is funny to me especially because Reed is such a cunt, that you find yourself rooting for Doom half the time. His pettiness is what humanizes him and endears him to the reader because while he's in the middle of a grand scheme he will forego larger goals if he can just make Richards look dumb
And I like that he's so confident. He doesn't have breakdowns or beg or fear, he is so supremely confident that he'll win that he's endearing for it.

Jacob Perry
Jacob Perry

Darkseid arrives
Batman actually helps out in the fight
You'd think that would be a minor complaint but somehow almost every story that involves Darkseid and Batman, Batman somehow actually help punch him.
he would never save the day, unless he was able to make Reed Richards look like a shithead while doing it.
Doom would absolutely save the day, but he would do it in a way that still fucks over everyone. He would stop the hackers from launching nukes at the population centers so that way he could control the nukes instead, He won't cure the retrovirus, he'll make it dormant and re-activate it if necessary.

Cooper Allen
Cooper Allen

When did he say that? Was that in Black Panther?

Brody Gonzalez
Brody Gonzalez

Same reason why everyone outside of Morrison either writes Professor Pyg as a cheap Mad Hatter knock-off who talks like a demented schizophrenic or else tries to reinvent him with cheap gimmicks (Beware The Batman, Gotham).

I think Arkham Knight was the only time they got Pyg correctly, but even then, he feels like such a one-shot villain. I completely get why they wanted to revamp him as either a hedonistic Dr. Moreau or as a mercenary helping a master ruseman.

Henry Wright
Henry Wright

Nigger Slaves contributed little to America's success.

Reminder that Niggers have won far less gold medals than Whites.

Zachary Anderson
Zachary Anderson

Hating niggers so much that you become delusional about reality
You're just the opposite version of "WE WUZ KANGZ"

Nathaniel Howard
Nathaniel Howard

Nigger Slaves built America
A luxury item that only a small minority in The South let alone the rest of America had was somehow able to be productive enough to build a country like the USA
Niggers won as many gold medals as Whites

Can you even name a time a Nigger ever won a gold medal for something that wasn't about running in a straight line?

Julian Young
Julian Young

Can you even name a time a Nigger ever won a gold medal for something that wasn't about running in a straight line?
This is a phenomenally stupid statement considering that, in addition to track and field, the Olympics include basketball, boxing and a dozen other sports that black people generally excel in

Carson Roberts
Carson Roberts

A luxury item that only a small minority in The South let alone the rest of America had was somehow able to be productive enough to build a country like the USA
Slaves built the White House. This is a documented fact

Ian Brooks
Ian Brooks

Can't name any

Tell me where all the Nigger gold medalists in not running through straight lines are and how come Whitey still wins more.

Only Nigger Slaves built the White House with no immigrants or Whites taking part

Ever notice how the South is more squalor and less accomplished filled than the North despite the South's slavery?

Gabriel Brown
Gabriel Brown

Next you'll be saying Niggers have ever had great civilizations.

Justin Cook
Justin Cook

Ever notice how the South is more squalor and less accomplished filled than the North despite the South's slavery?
If only there was some possible reason for that, like having the entire basis for their economy getting ripped away from them while at the same time having their infrastructure raized and destroyed.

Brayden Edwards
Brayden Edwards

The Civil War wasn't over a century ago
Other former slave holding countries like Muslimland aren't just as bad as the South (at best) when accounting for oil money

And how pray tell did they get steamrolled unless they were behind the North?

Landon Miller
Landon Miller

Because the north's economy was based around industrial shit, like making weapons, and no other countries would trade with the South. Pick up a fucking book ffs.

Ryan Gutierrez
Ryan Gutierrez

The South was behind the North thanks to slavery

Remind me how Niggers built America again?

Austin Johnson
Austin Johnson

Tell me where all the Nigger gold medalists in not running through straight lines are
Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay). Won Gold in boxing at the 1960 Olympics
Joe Frazier. Won Gold in boxing at the 1964 Olympics
George Foreman. Won Gold in boxing at the 1968 Olympics
Leon Spinks. Won Gold in boxing at the 1976 Olympics
Lennox Lewis. Won Gold in boxing at the 1988 Olympics
Anthony Joshua. Won Gold in boxing at the 2012 Olympics
The 1992 United States Olympic basketball team included Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Karl Malone, Clyde Drexler. They won Gold
The 1996 United States Olympic basketball team included Charles Barkley, Shaquille O'Neal, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen, Reggie Miller, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, etc. They won Gold

You're a stupid motherfucker
and how come Whitey still wins more
The Olympics consist of about 28 different events including many sports, such as Equestrian, where black people don't ordinarily compete. Then there's the Winter Olympics, which favours Europe and parts of Asia, you know where there's actually snow for them to practice and compete on, and disfavours Africa, where there is no snow

The track and field events are the only ones people really care about and black people dominate them

Adrian Williams
Adrian Williams

WE

David Brown
David Brown

So, blacks are good at Running, Beating up other people and basketball….there's a joke somewhere…

Landon Carter
Landon Carter

Norman should've stayed fucking dead. He's been nothing but a haphazard mish-mash of bad and worse ideas since his return as Marvel tries to figure out what the hell to do with the guy.

Alexander Bennett
Alexander Bennett

Heck, folks in the Marvel Universe voted him as President…the known insane felone with a killstreak a mile wide. Fuck, at least Luthor kept his hands clean in public.

Ethan Wright
Ethan Wright

Norman was overrated as shit even in his pre-revival appearances.

Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley) was much better

Jayden Thompson
Jayden Thompson

muh boxing

Try MMA. Or military accomplishment.

The track and field events are the only ones people really care about and black people dominate them
they don't count now

List all the Niggers who win gold medals in swimming and weightlifting.

William Bell
William Bell

Try MMA. Or military accomplishment.
Neither are in the fucking Olympics you goalpost shifter

Brandon Wilson
Brandon Wilson

where is my gold? where is my story? Both times gets BTFO
Being so much of a delusional faggot that try to move the goal post
Wow /pol/ you really are out of touch

Chase Lee
Chase Lee

This. Roderick is best Goblin.

Problem with Norman is that he did something huge, killing Gwen Stacy, and when Capcom saw how popular The Joker was, they wanted to have one singular big enemy for Spider-Man to try and make the public fap all over, and Doctor Octopus was too calculated and smart, and I guess they figured Venom who was already crazy popular was too new that it'd hurt the "legacy" or some stupid shit, so they revived Norman and tried to make him into Joker 2.0. Or sometimes Lex Luthor. Because they can't make up their fucking minds.

Levi Campbell
Levi Campbell

so they revived Norman and tried to make him into Joker 2.0. Or sometimes Lex Luthor
He was already both of those things before they killed him.

The problem with Norman is, much like Gwen Stacy, there was no where really for him to go. The appeal of his initial appearances was the mystery of who Green Goblin was. Then they solved that mystery. Then the appeal was that he was seemingly normal but could snap back into being the Goblin at any minute. Then he killed Gwen and Conway knew that there was no way he could just kill Gwen, snap back into sanity and Spider-Man would let him get away with it, so he got killed off.

At least with the Hobgoblin, while the initial appeal was, much like with Green Goblin, the mystery behind his identity, had they not fucked that up Kingsley would have had more longevity because unlike the Green Goblin, he's not actually insane but rather methodical and devious and therefore lends himself more readily to villainous plots than Green Goblin, who just has psychotic episodes and goes on crime sprees.

Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips

Even though it took like 10 years, I'm glad they did the retcon to establish Roderick as Hobgoblin, because he really is an amazing goblin. Probably my favourite Spider-Man villain overall.

Jordan Price
Jordan Price

He was already both of those things before they killed him.

He was more of a prototype Carnage that anything else.

In terms of business acumen and planning, his pre-resurrection version was hardly Lex-Luthor-level, more like "average asshole businessman" level. And as another user mentioned, most of the time his "evil schemes" boiled down to him losing his shit because of the Goblin formula and going on a "MUAHAHAHAHA" crime spree rather than being methodical and having plans upon plans like Joker does.

Camden Wilson
Camden Wilson

Capcom? Since when Capcom bought Marvel? But anyways, problem with Norman Osborne is that..they should've just let him die but keep Harry alive. I mean, would've been a great story that Harry now feel trapped in between of avenging his father and not trying to kill his best and some say only friend he has. And then there's jamming Norman in the Clone Saga…just so they can bring Peter Parker or Sins Past where Norman fucked Gwen and somehow has two illegitimate kids. Hell, Norman Osborne after he came back from the dead is a mess.

Eli Richardson
Eli Richardson

And if they're trying for Norman to be like Luthor, they forgot that Luthor knows to keep his hand clean in public, making sure that all his crimes will never link back to him in one way or another and how the public loves him. Meanwhile, pretty sure Norman Osborne has been in prison plenty of times..and his identity as the Green Goblin has been well-known, doesn't even have the Hobgoblin excuse too. At least Kingsley had multiple fall guys.

Jason Martinez
Jason Martinez

The problem with Harry is that JM DeMatteis did the definitive for all time Harry as Green Goblin arc and not only did that story have to end with Harry being killed but if he'd been left alive there would be absolutely nowhere left to go with him.

Easton Watson
Easton Watson

Another words..it's too damn good that to follow it up would just be terrible?

Thomas Gonzalez
Thomas Gonzalez

Well, yes. There's nothing you could do with him that wouldn't be a retread at best.

Blake Adams
Blake Adams

lol, sorry, was watching Street Fighter while typing. Obviously meant Marvel, not Capcom.

Nolan Morris
Nolan Morris

Hey leftypol. Where all the Niggers who outperform Whites in the Olympics and how come the South is still far more squalor filled than the North despite over a century has passed since slavery ended?

Still waiting for you to list all the wars Niggers won against Whitey and Achmed.

Christopher Martin
Christopher Martin

being this new

Isaac Jones
Isaac Jones

The track and field events are the only ones people really care about
im-fucking-plying

Ian Watson
Ian Watson

I want this false-flagging retard to leave. The only thing worse than /pol/ and /leftypol/ coming and shitting up threads are people who pretend to be them shitting up threads.

Evan Torres
Evan Torres

implying it's not leftypol Chimpingout

Every politicial shitpost war here was started by Lefties for the past few weeks.

Mason Bell
Mason Bell

The thing about Darkseid though is that he isn't supposed to be fighting anyone. He is not a noble warrior like his son Orion, but a cowardly backstabber who runs at the first sign of danger.

His arena is scheming and plotting, not fisticuffs.

Nathaniel Richardson
Nathaniel Richardson

I used to like Darkseid just fine before DC started shoving him into every major event they have.

X-Men in general have a problem with most of their villains being shit, wasted potential or any good ones being basically forgotten.

When was the last time you saw the U-Men being used, for example? Minus the John Sublime evil bacteria shit, they're a concept ripe for exploration.

Hunter Cooper
Hunter Cooper

Bane was an evil Doc Savage
Wow I never knew that.>>958149

I wonder if you could do a story with him where his identity is a mystery and it's hinted to be Roman but his mask gets burned onto his face and when Batman goes to confront Roman he sees that Roman's face is ok and normal looking. Later on it's revealed that the regualr looking face was a rubber mask he wore and his mask had become his real face or something. Could add a layer of symbolism I suppose. I don't know I was thinking of something like how Spectacular Spiderman cartoon handled the Green Goblin's identity.

Awesome song.

The comparisons between Savage and the Shadow come off like a fucked up version of Superman and Batman tbh.

Wow I never knew that. Thanks for the history lesson.

Really, I thought the black competitor for the US said that the Germans treated him better than the Americans and that back in America he was still forced to sit in the back of the bus.

This is why i loved the Spectacular Spiderman version of the Green Goblin so much.

I know he's supposed to be a manipulator but I never saw him as a coward.

David Parker
David Parker

Really, I thought the black competitor for the US said that the Germans treated him better than the Americans and that back in America he was still forced to sit in the back of the bus.
Hitler was gracious in public. He actually shook Jesse Owens' hand whereas FDR and then Truman didn't even give him any acknowledgement. But privately he said people whose antecedents came from the jungle were primitive. Their physiques were stronger than those of civilised whites and should not be allowed to compete.

Nolan Anderson
Nolan Anderson

U-Men

Nice to see that I'm not the only one that thought they are a cool concept that got wasted.

Jonathan Carter
Jonathan Carter

The comparisons between Savage and the Shadow come off like a fucked up version of Superman and Batman tbh
They have been written as such on the occasions where they crossed over and the stories replicate the Superman-Batman dynamic where one guy is a golden boy scout who can do no wrong and inspires people and the other is a more scary, ruthless and grim vigilante acting as an ideological opposite.

But as I said here , I disagree very strongly with the notion that The Shadow is (or at least was intended to be by his creator) a violent and sadistic murderer without compassion, and I also object to the idea that Doc Savage is even 1/10th as kind and moral as Superman is.
I think this comparison does a disservice to Superman and The Shadow and I'm sick of comics playing up The Shadow as just a murderous Batman (like the new series which goes out of it's way to ensure viewers see Batman as the most moral man in the universe and The Shadow as a monster who's borderline unredeemable).

Ayden Mitchell
Ayden Mitchell

Yeah, the Batman/Shadow and Shadow/Batman seems to come off as Shadow being more like the Punisher than anything else. But it's been awhile since I've read the DC run of the Shadow (there's 2 of them if I recall and that one had the Shadow be placed in a giant robot body. The other one is The Shadow Strikes..which also has the crossover with Doc Savage as pictured there)

Blake Myers
Blake Myers

hi

Jordan Evans
Jordan Evans

the Batman/Shadow and Shadow/Batman seems to come off as Shadow being more like the Punisher than anything else
Unsurprising since that's how Dynamite also treated him plenty of times and any vigilante who uses murderous force is inevitably written like The Punisher when he's put next to Batman so Batman can maintain the moral high ground on his no-kill rule.

As someone who really likes Frank, I truly hate when writers treat The Shadow like he is The Punisher meets Purple Man. It makes him so much less interesting and it doesn't help that since RazorFish made his vlogs on the character parading him as "The Punisher with a dick", that's what many new fans want The Shadow to be.

Connor Torres
Connor Torres

Here.we.go!

Grayson Morgan
Grayson Morgan

leftypol

The winners of Olympic weightlifting competions are overwhelmimgly European or West Asian. Not Niggers.

Michael Cook
Michael Cook

Joker. I dunno why or maybe I do but after Mark Hamill and Nolanverse to say i've been fucking tired of the Joker is prob an understatement. I'm not saying that the character wasn't interesting before nor am I saying that he wasn't a damn good foil to batman but honestly if DC's gonna make Harley go all INDEPENDENT than godddammit they should at least try to give Joker that same chance too. As of late it's the otherworldly counterparts that interest me more than the original, because the original version isn't even original anymore, it's redundant and frankly I want to see that kind of character archetype changed up a little or at least not be the fucking reason Supes goes all edgy
Have we started the fire?
Daily reminder your own apprentice turned against you and basically sent you to hell to a point where you were basically dead and had to work with your previous apprentice who ALSO turned against you
also that's not Red X :^)

Aaron Robinson
Aaron Robinson

and it doesn't help that since RazorFish made his vlogs on the character parading him as "The Punisher with a dick"

Razorfist can be amusing but he has some really shit taste when it comes to comics. I did agree with him when he recently posted a video about how Dick Grayson's fans are the character's worst enemy that want him to be in perpetual stasis, stuck in Gotham-But-Shittier Bludhaven and fighting the Cheap-Kingpin-Knock-Off Blockbuster.

I wouldn't say Deathstroke is overrated (though he skids dangerously close to it at times) but he is certainly overused.

Owen Barnes
Owen Barnes

No it's not faggot

Owen Anderson
Owen Anderson

Shads was pretty well behaved the first couple of times they met. Apart from trying to bring Batman over to the shooty side.
sneaking a gun into Batman's hand without him noticing

Julian Jackson
Julian Jackson

I thought Razorfist criticized The Shadow being written like the Punisher. Or at least when Garth Ennis wrote the Shadow.

Blake Carter
Blake Carter

He did but Razor seems to view the Punisher as a brute with no refinement while the Shadow is supposed to be some kind of vicious, murderous mastermind. So, he really only criticized Ennis over trivial details while stating that the guy came the closest to "getting" Shadow out of all modern writers.

Josiah Collins
Josiah Collins

The thing is that I often find myself agreeing with him when it comes to comics, I wish he talked more about them instead of videogames or politics.
But it frustrates me to no end that he ended up reviving the character's popularity substantially and at the same time because of him the fanbase now has far too many teenage edgelords who want The Shadow to be a ruthless gun-toting psychopath.
Razor projects a lot of his own beliefs into the character which is why, when he addressed the awful Dynamite series, instead of ranting about how the series was falling into the same pitfalls of depicting The Shadow as a monster as well as it's misguided statements on superheroes and how The Shadow compares to them, he instead made it into a rant about "muh objectivism" and using clips from THE MOVIE as an argument, which thus leads to people like who can't know better perceiving the character as always having been a tyrannical murderous madman.

He only criticized it in the sense that he thinks The Shadow is more calculating and elaborate than The Punisher when it comes to killing criminals, which he is, but that's besides the point, and besides Frank is not the gun-loving simpleton critics brush him off as.
And as this user explains , he still has the gall to state Garth Ennis came the closest to "getting" The Shadow out of all modern writers, even though everyone on the groups will tell you the only modern writer who seems to actually get The Shadow is Matt Wagner.

Jordan Lewis
Jordan Lewis

This is part of why the first crossover between The Shadow and Batman was so great and so much better than those who came after.
Denny O'Neil had a great understanding of both characters and how they both ended up sharing different beliefs on vigilantism, without making Batman morally perfect or demonizing The Shadow.
Batman rejects The Shadow's guns, not because The Shadow is a psychopath (like he is in the new series), not because guns are evil and all life needs to be protected, but because he doesn't need them. He is his own man. And The Shadow, instead of calling him a fool or a child (like in the new series), instead respects his decision after helping him overcome his trauma.
He shows the same thing in his own Shadow series, where The Shadow is still scary, still frightens his agents a little and may even punish them by discharging them of service if they fuck up too bad (like he did with Shrevy), but who still greatly respects and values them (and they do likewise), still has a solid moral core even when he it comes to the act of murder and still values fairness and justice above all

Luke Jackson
Luke Jackson

The Best Event Comic Ever
That's the Beyonder BattleWorld event, though.

Eli Russell
Eli Russell

I don't think either of them are dumb. If there's any problem with his characterization, it's that the whole Doombot excuse makes it harder for someone to get a bead on his kind of personality.

And I agree with you on the best stories of his not involving him taking on Richards. Emperor Doom, Triump and Torment, the story where Valeria is first introduced, as well as the What If? he had the Infinity Gauntlet and Doom 2099 (up till about the halfway point). That last one is a bit more controversial, granted, but imo it's the other 2099 title that was worth picking up.

As for Richards being royally fucked, there was a bit of an issue where he acknowledges his own hubris. Pics related.

Benjamin Thomas
Benjamin Thomas

liberal_draws_gun.png

Samuel Sanchez
Samuel Sanchez

Never forget

Jaxson Allen
Jaxson Allen

Is that supposed to be a reference to TDK?

Josiah Nguyen
Josiah Nguyen

Could be. Batman uses a sniper rifle in the actual story

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