So what WAS wrong with Starcraft 2? I haven't played it yet (though I did play the original)...

I remember there being a video that showed a scene from SC1 how Raynor says that he will hunt down and kill Kerrigan no matter what it'll take him for what she's done, and then one from SC2 where he fucking forgives her.

Can't find it anymore on jewtube though, but it really showed that the writers for SC2 had no proper idea how the characters related to each other.

The Kerrigan parts of LotV were obviously complete garbage, but the story of Artanis rallying the might of the remaining Protoss and fighting to reclaim his homeworld is fucking fantastic. Then he gets defeated and travels throughout the galaxy to recruit the rest of the remaining Protoss again with the same ultimate goal of reclaiming Aiur. Very courageous and awe-inspiring quotes from Artanis throughout the campaign.

The story could have done without the SJW undertones of "we can only win by overcoming our differences and embracing diversity", but they weren't too in your face about it.

probably outdated, but
dramatically broken things fixed? sure, maybe one hotfix between expansions
the tweaks and tweaks and tweaks, not so much
while that makes me the angriest, the below is the real shit
iconic and niche units butchered or removed, this hit toss the hardest
axed toss airgame, simplifying it to "void rays and ground blobbing" with no hopes of well-made corsair and carrier sieges or surprise reaver-into-army drops
zerg got hit the least but just feels wrong
you don't really rush, you don't feel the rush, etc, and the lack of defilers/queens makes it pretty monotonous and braindead to play zerg
in general that was my issue, especially in just the base game
heart of the swarm improved some shit and made everything else worse and it was never really the same game or community ever again

Well fuck me but LotV trailers and cinematics before release were the most epic thing to ever were in gaming.

The worse parts started with the campaign not only with SJW bullshit that wasn't as bad, it was mostly stuff that would considered to be proper before all leftist bullshit.
I will ignore SC1 but I believe there are no female toss in it, I only stopped near the end of toss campaign in base game.
It is always bad to make aliens human and Blizz went all out with this in Lotv. Now toss have beards, females and shit. This race would have been so much better if they all were literally clones with different personalities now they made them merely humans but with no mouths and khala.

Also posting all of cinematic because I couldn't find the first one alone and I saged accidentally.
Watch rest if you want but know it gets progressively worse.

terran getting shafted with every expansion
swarm hosts
protoss…

David Kim
who was also the reason Dawn of War's expansions had absolutely shit balance

No custom maps.
Seriously - no custom maps.

What Blizzard believed is that a strong pro scene makes people want to play to be more like pro players. However, that approach only works if a player can imitate the pro player; trying and failing to be pro makes players give up. You can see this with Dota, where a strong showing of a hero in a major tournament leads to that hero appearing more often in pubs, and the more difficult of those popular heroes will have poor pub winrates and fall out of pub favor. Pro techniques in Starcraft (1 & 2) are almost always technically challenging, so the average player has no chance of imitating the pros.

Yet SC1 remained much more popular than SC2 because of custom maps. Those maps can lower the skill floor and provide fun distractions, so players will be playing the game even if they aren't skirmishing. Map styles rise and fall quickly to give a stream of new content, allowing the community to fuel itself. Blizzard eliminating custom maps from SC2 meant new content was locked to their production cycle - which was in turn locked to the pro scene - making SC2 have long periods of stagnation while a new patch or expansion was in production.

And motive of Hybrids being false xel'naga not being in any way developed as xel'naga is nothing more than space walruses.
And shit tone of other shit I won't mention.

Say what you want Toss was always easy to play but shit to do anything.
There is no base unit like marines or over powered but counter-able unit like swarm hosts use to be. Death balls are result of not having anything as opposed to everything being good.
Most matches I remember I had is just swarming my opponent.

But really to not just start race war here. SC2 was absolutely full of bad design decisions on every step, for every race.
Maybe besides allowing Zerg to stack inject larva but Blizz at the same time hit Mule and Chrono Boost with no reason so it still managed to be shit update.

I wasted good over 30h of my live on Night Special Forces and over 10h on Poker Defence, I still remember defending in The Thing with 5 different people.
But yeah while I cannot agree on no custom maps. I must agree SC2 and user maps are extreme stale, even now with proper browser it is kinda shit.

My problem with Starcraft 2 primarily was how they turned the Zerg from the "all-consuming alien menace" they were to a race we're suppose to feel sympathetic towards. I may be talking from experience from playing the original Starcraft, but I liked it better then because the Zerg were a thing to be feared, not pitied, because they were badass. Now in the storyline I get the feeling of them being more like endangered animals than a race that threatened the whole sector at one point. As well, they try making you feel sorry for Sarah Kerrigan, and they add in this whole "I have to kill millions of people if I'm to save millions more of people" edginess to her that I just didn't approve of. Again, I liked it back when it was the original Starcraft with the Overmind that just wanted everything besides the Zerg dead or consumed. Or even Pre-Starcraft 2 Kerrigan who basically thought the same way.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is they basically neutered the Zerg of their badassness and replaced it with sympathy, which is something they shouldn't have. Give the sympathy to the Protoss, they lost their goddamn homeplanet for god sakes.

I also think the ending of LoTV where you kill Amon in his Xelnaga form forever was rushed. Only 3 missions for something like that? Seriously?

Actually the reason it fell apart was because this obsession with gook click means the game is held back by trying to add in "clicks" even if it bloats gameplay.

sirlin.net/posts/sirlin-on-game-design-ep-13-starcraft-2

...

Emo Zerg killed it for me.

I hate SJWs and Libtards, but this is really a stretch. Not everything has a sjw theme to it.

This is something I don't quite understand, could you elaborate more for me? In what way is SC2's gameplay often with winners based on how fast you can click different from SC's macros, how does it bloat gameplay?

Didn't they split the three species campaigns into main game + 2 paid expansion packs, while the first game and its expansion had full stories for all 3 included?

Also

The esport thing was entertaining…when it wasn't fucking Protoss v. Zerg all of the fucking time.

To be fair the campaigns in the original and Brood War weren't very long or complicated, I think it was just 10 straightforward missions per race while 2 did at least 20 main missions each with metacampaign stuff like unit upgrades between missions. I still don't think the end products are worth being three games.

They just add things to do that raise your APM and try and make it look like the player is doing a lot of important stuff.

Notice how lots of streams have a shit ton of weird ass selecting of units for seemingly no reason?

You mean like how the queens can't be set to just place their larvae, you have to tell them everytime

Terran a shit.

SC2 was designed for koreans not western, Blizzard even spent millions of $ on advertising it in Korea massively even paying huge loads to paint some Korean commercial airplanes

All incorrect. I'm assuming you're Gold at best.

4pool was the strongest and most prevalent strategies in BW.

Not really. Just because something hard-counters something (which exists in pretty much every competitive game ever) it doesn't make it exclusively 'rock-paper-scissors'.

Stutterstep and harassment is a lot more interesting than build-order losses.

Exactly right about the kerrigan thing. I remember in one of the missions in Hear of the Swarm she goes to an ice planet and theres a toss colony there and they ask her to leave because they dont want to fight they just need a colony and she keeps attacking.
eventually they tell her they are gonna cal the golden armada because shes murdering them and she literally says something along the lines of
"Oh since you are threatening me I guess I have to kill you all"
and then she literally kills the refugees as they try to run. But its ok guys shes just misunderstood

I think they were looking at MOBAs and thought they could make it more interesting to watch by making the player have to do a lot more.

SC2 is meant to be fun to watch, not fun to play.

Thats the exact definition of Rock-paper-scissors…

No, not really, because there's not only three units per race.

can you backpedal more?

He's talking about the units. And he's right about marine rush to diamond, I did it myself. It wasn't until I started to play the game in more advanced ways that I started to suck and I realized it's a lot better to just marine rush than try and learn how to actually play the game.

Can you miss the concept of 'rock-paper-scissor' any harder?

I'm not saying he's wrong rushing was/is strong, I'm saying that rushing was ALWAYS strong, even in BW.

And I know he's talking the units, which is why I specifically said "because there's not only three units per race".

He wasn't saying rock-paper-scissors means there's only three units. He's just using it as an example that there are units that will pretty much always win against other units.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the fact that a lot of games are decided by if someone can figure out what the other person is building and just counter it. If you have the proper build against your enemy, your micro and battles don't matter because the units will do everything for you, though you still have to babysit them and look like you're busy.

Nigger the whole fucking concept of rock-paper-scissors is hard counter, you got proven wrong now keep backpedalling

And you dont even need only 3 units for hard counter comparison, even in WC3 you have rock-paper-scissors where for example 1 unit counters 4 others and 2 units hard counters 5-6 others while still having a weakness to certain unit or unit type WHICH IS THE EXACT CONCEPT OF ROCK PAPER SCISSORS

You said in your previous post that all his points were wrong, are you denying that now?

Jim, I… I understand now.

That's not really 'rock-paper-scissors', because again, there's not only three units in each race. Yes, units do hard-counter eachother, but not as hard as you think. For instance, Banelings technically hard-counter Marines, but not if you micro them well enough or don't engage in obviously bad situations. Yes, if you a-move your Marines into a bunch of Banelings they'll all most likely die, but that's not how Starcraft 2 works.

That's true to an extent and it has always been an issue in SC2, however it's uncommon that it gets to decide a match. It's more common, for instance, that some guy rushes the other and just outright wins because the opponent didn't scout his hidden Gateways.

I didn't get proven wrong at all. You keep saying but that doesn't make it the truth.

HUUUR UR WRONG AND I'M RIGHT STOP BACKPEDALLING

Don't bother replying if all you're gonna do is repeat that.

Read above.

Perhaps you re-read the chain of replies. He claimed that rushing being too strong was only a thing in SC2. I said rushing is indeed strong in SC2 but so it was in BW.

Are there ant mods that fix the gameplay?

There's Starbow which makes it more like SC1 by adding in stuff like dragoons, lurkers and defilers

so this isn't you saying all the points in this user's post are wrong?

hey backpedaller read this one

Either admit you are wrong or keep backpedalling like a retard, its still amusing how you are even backpedalling in that other argument

i think he is just shitposting now, he got proven wrong in all his arguments but he doesnt want to back down because his ego might get bruised

Blizzard should go back to writing corruption instead of redemption.

Wings of Liberty campaign is still pretty fun though.

Which part specifically are you talking about? Do I need to break it down for you?

Person A (the person I'm arguing to) claims rushing was a viable strategy in Starcraft 2 and claims it can carry you to an average league (yes, Diamond is average at best, if you think otherwise you're an obvious shitter), and then implies that wasn't an issue in BW.

Person B (me) implies that the first part is right but the last isn't. Rushing is strong in SC2 but it was also strong in BW.

Shut the fuck up, kid. It's pretty obvious you just learned the term. That's not what backpedalling means. Open up a book once in a while.

Don't bother replying.

Please go back to your safe space, you're clearly triggered. *hands you a pacifier*

Not only you dont know the definition of hard counter and rock-paper-scissors concept you are accusing others of not knowing what backpedalling means while doing so, your butthurt is amusing indeed

Either admit you are wrong or keep backpedalling.

Not an argument.

...

I'm not surprised that people in this board don't really know how this 'arguing' thing works, but the idiocy in this board really amazes me.

I could bet my anal virginity you're also a low plat shitter who thinks he's hot shit because he got there with 4gatting/Marine rushing/6pooling.

Also not an argument. Why bother replying?

This is true. It's also true that Diamond's been anywhere from the top 10% to the top 7% of players in the world.

So as much as I love Starcraft, that makes me ask a pertinent question - how is a game where reaching Diamond skill level is essentially _meaningless_ because the skill floor is so high going to succeed globally? The answer is it won't.

SC2 didn't (and won't) die, but it's super-ironic that the reason it got knocked off its e-sports throne was Blizzard's own obsession with difficulty = competitiveness.

Rock hard-counters scissors

Scissors hard-counters paper

Paper hard-counters rock

Rock-paper-scissors is the very defintion of HARD COUNTER

Now keep backpedalling like a retard instead of just admitting you are wrong and walking away

just stopping by to call you a faggot

That's almost literally meaningless, because SC2 has a free edition, and lots of people just try out Ranked a couple of times and never again.

The reason why you could reach Diamond by just cheesing back then was because the player pool was much larger, and there was a lot more newbs. Rushing is MUCH weaker in LOTV (partially because of how faster the game is) however, and that has to do with how smaller the playerbase is.

I'm not here to argue whether SC2 is dead or not. It depends on your standard.

If you spent all the time in coming up with witty insults in actually improving your arguing skills, you perhaps could refute my arguments. Lucky for me though, that's not the case.

I never admitted I was wrong and I never walked away, so I have no idea why you wasted your time typing that.

I'm gonna say it one more time. If your reply has nothing to do with the original discussion, then refrain from replying (or don't, because you're obviously not here to argue about SC2, but rather to attempt to nitpick flaws in the opponent's arguments and then attack them for it).

Hard-countering in SC2 does not make it rock-paper-scissor because again, there's more than three units per race, and like I said, you don't have to always engage with an unit that gets hard-countered by the other, and if you do, you can potentially micro your away around it, as opposed to in a game of rock-paper-scissors, which is obviously something only scrubs use to describe SC2.

Now shoo shoo to your anime threads.

i refuted your arguments from the start, it seems you are too retarded and full of yourself to admit you are wrong, instead of acting like an adult you keep backpedalling and shitposting which just proves my point of you being a little kid with bruised ego

Hard-countering is ROCK PAPER SCISSORS, by claiming it isnt its like saying water isnt wet.

The entire argument has been you saying hard-countering is something and I saying it is something else. Why don't you go look the term up on Google instead of wasting your time with someone who's obviously childish and retarded, and let me keep arguing with the people who are actually interested in SC2 discussion?

...

...

...

...

...

I almost get a boner when I see greedy zergs (read: 95% of them) get punished. It's not enough that almost all SC2 maps are fuckhuge, it also has to be wide open.

Got any past 7?

...

...

Sure. I made them all.

...

i dont know how someone can be so stupid and have such big ego like you, you are literally refusing to believe water is wet, thats how fucking retarded you are while backpedalling

You should make webm of Has's cheese.

You made me check the thread for replies. Aren't you a double-nigger?

For me. the multiplayer is not fun to play at all. Every single time I played a ladder game all I felt was stress the entire time. Even when winning I wasn't having fun. I liked Broodwar even though I was pretty bad at it. I don't know how they fucked things up so badly. Another major flaw was the Use Map Settings games were terrible.

He's saying that it's not really hard counter because there are various ways to use the same unit.
Like his example up above, Marines and Banelings. If you control the Marines well enough you can avoid getting all those Marines being obliterated but if you just let them sit on their ass shooting at the Banelings they'll explode them the fuck up.
That means there are possibly two outcomes in a Marines vs Baneling clash. Banelings practically soft counters Marines because when you assume the Terran player is dogshit the Zerg player would rough him up, but the skills of the players affect the outcome. Thus, it's practically not hard countering but soft countering and not a rock paper scissor.

Nothing, it just wasn't marketed properly.

Starcraft II is not really a video game. More of a Korean educational tool. That's it.

This. Kim is behind the gameplay design and balancing.

keep backpedalling kido

whats with all the backedallin in this thread
jesus

Both of your moms backpedalled into my dick lol

kido is still butthurt and in denial

You're still wasting your time attempting to troll me when it's pretty clear I'm not falling for your cuckoldry

Forgot to post this.

go back to Holla Forums underage kido

Yes, if you are a fucking 10 year old that likes it when every unit screams it's most common line at the screen.

...

David "no fun allowed" Kim.

Honestly I think Starcraft (and quite a few other RTS games) are more fun the less skilled you are. The more you focus on build orders and micromanagement the more tedious they become to play.

I played the everloving shit out of Starcraft as a kid, playing 1-2 hour skirmishes against the AI and not even being aware of the concept of micromanagement or build orders. But as I got older and learned about this shit I just lost interest in the franchise.

I think I'd rather a focus on macromanagement honestly.

Don't mind us guys. We just put muscles all over everything.
Muscles are cool, right ? You liked them in wow so we put them in here too.

WoW's art style is the worst thing to ever happen to video games.

...

nigga what. Nobody could play for 24-32 hours anyway because of EA's shitty servers.

blizzard is whats wrong with it.
i dont know about anyone else, but i didnt play starcraft 1 for the gameplay. it was clunky and unintuitive at best if you werent a pro who played 16 hours a day. the story on the other hand was intriguing. it was basicly an inofficial 40k spinoff.
Starcraft 2 wasnt a huge step forward in anything but unit pathing and graphics(and a huge step backwards in terms of balancing) and the story felt like a cheap rehash of everything bad from diablo 2 to world of warcraft.

Mercy….

I knows that feels, bro. D3 and SC2 killed the franchises for me.

Remember how it ended with kerrigan turning into a literal god with the appearance of an angel made of fire and she won everything forever before fucking off with jim to seed every planet with life because destiny is destiny and this truly was the final fantasy XIII?

Quality game.

in Legion expansion Illidan becomes the exact same thing only instead of angel of fire he becomes angel of gold

That's retarded but at this point very possible.

...

You've got to be shitting me

That could easily be a fan mock-up.

Where's the proof that its legit?

But its pretty obvious that in this expansion they're going to turn Illidan back into being a "hero."

its basicly copy pasted plot from SC2 with Illidan here being Kerrigan with redemption story and all that and Illidan will prob go from planet to planet seeding new life after they defeat Burning Legion

Like poetry

Is it legit? Source ?

I just googled for released spoilers.

They give him a fucking halo. The hack writing has reached an all time new low.

it doesnt get any more official than this

Elune apparently is Omnipowerful God of everything and everyone who created Naaru during the Light and Shadow conflict aka creation of universe

Thats Chris Metzen for you

Yah but in the past metzen was at least clever enough to rip off well written stories.

It's like he isn't even trying anymore.

i dont know what you refer to past but ever since he was given the important position in Lore deparment he was only producing literal shit and retconning great old lore and replacing it with his own retarded shit

Not to mention he tries to self insert everywhere, in Cata he forced devs to change Thrall's model to bald head claiming "Thrall has forsaken his warrior ways he is spiritual monk now thats why he shaved his head" while the truth is he started losing hair few months before that.

feh

Perhaps wow was the beginning of the end of wc3 wasn't.
They just can't write stories.

Vanilla WoW had interesting storyline and didnt have really big bad retcons, there were few retcons but not that drastic like TBC and next expansions

Imo they should have canned expanson ideas and just focus on big patches content, Naxxramas could be considered big patch then few smaller patches then add Emerald Dream big patch (Nightmare Dragons were added and those portals were supposed to teleport raid to 1 out of 4 parts of raid wings), add few more smaller patches then release new zones like zone north of Stormwind or north of Swamp of Sorrows and add Hyjal raid etc etc

Possibilities were endless but they choose to focus on cash grab expansions

if* wc3 wasn't

They're making Warcraft 4 and it's going to continue WoW's story.
Prepare to buy the same game four times now, fuccboi.

On a side note, they'll be releasing a new balancing patch for Warcraft 3 and that game is very much alive, although the custom maps are all bloody tower defence.

there are some people who still play melee maps or fun custom maps like Arena or Dragon Ball Ultra Tribute but yeah majority is Tower Defence

this is a problem?

...

because it wasnt her fault and they unbrainwashed her?

Entire Broodwars was about how much of an unredeemable "Queen Bitch Of The Universe" Kerrigan became once completely freed of Overminds "suggestions". She was never fully under Overminds control and her "Cerebrate" (Player Character in Starcrafts Zerg Campaign PC) wasn't even fully sentient.

Matriarch Raszagal has a prominent role in Brood War. She's the leader of the Dark Templar.

...

The story/plot.
The expansions.
The current state of multiplayer.

Are you being ironic with those filenames, bruv?

Gameplay, the game is perfectly fine. A great way to build upon the gameplay that existed in the first game. I have no problem with it.

In the story, as all that has been said before in this thread probably is the biggest fucking problem. Which is a shame because the way they crafted the actual gameplay of the campaign was really fucking good.
Starcraft 2 is basically like a really well done movie on a technical level with a super shitty script.

Anyway, the whole problem with the Campaigns, all 3 of them, is that they all rely heavily on Kerrigan. Kerrigan is the main focal point and focus of everything. I think they were trying to build off of what BroodWars left off with but it just doesn't seem right and it doesn't flow organically.
This actually makes itself all naked and known by the very start of the Heart of The Swarm campaign. It is a weird thing too because it feels like if you removed Kerrigan, you could keep many of the events the same and it wouldn't feel like such a cluster fuck. So she's the focal point of the story and yet you can easily tell 90% of that exact story without her because it is the 10% that requires Kerrigan that causes the other 90% to become garbage.

The other problem was the evil XelNaga guys. There was no need for that. You don't need an enemy like that to be outright evil. Starcraft was a game about 3 different races all struggling for dominance of the Korpulu sector. The Zerg who were primarily interested in absorbing the Protoss to make themselves more complete/perfect, the Protoss who were trying to avoid that at all costs and if they could, exterminate the Zerg infestation, and the Terrans who were woefully caught inbetween.
You don't need evil XelNaga, all you need is them to come back and decide that they want to be the ones to combine the protoss and the Zerg to create an entirely new being and of course this would destroy both Toss and Zerg in the process. They also want to try to experiment on humans or maybe just find them so inferior they'll wipe them completely out.
Does this mean you introduce a 4th and possibly playable race? Yeah. But you eliminate all the cringey bullshit about ancient prophecies and other fucking horrible retarded garbage.

I'm sorry..just..it was clear there was some sort of direction on where to go in the beginning of Wings of Liberty, but then it seems like shortly after that, and spanning the entire rest of the game, they just fucking made it up on the fly. Shoved some old drafts of Warcraft 3 in there and just changed the names.

It's the only thing Blizzard can do now, they did it to Diablo 3 as well.

They are?

The worst thing about it is that it spills to other video games.

i didnt like how they handled the custom maps
although part of me wonders what we even missed out on. the same community would be carrying over from warcraft 3 and things were already kind of set in stone on what maps they wanted to spam

I'm pretty sure that I read a real announcement, but this was the best that I could find right now.

cinemablend.com/games/Blizzard-Reveals-We-Can-Expect-Warcraft-4-78167.html

Unless it's some sort of alt-history that retcons the entireity of WoW as some sort of bizzare fever dream by Illidan, this will likely be a trainwreck of the best kind

They could also age of sigmar it and kill off and replace everyone with a total universe reset.

Where do you pull these from? Just random VODs or is there a jewtube channel dedicated to high level cheese?

Like I said, it's supposed to continue the story from where WoW drops it.
Unfortunately, I can't find the source which states this at all, so maybe they even dropped that idea.

If anything, they ought to try to continue from where TFT left off and not fuck everything up for the sake of having raid bosses.

If they're making a Warcraft 4, I'm expecting it to be another hit and miss only fanboys will love like SocialJusticeWatch.

The last thing Warcraft needs is the Age of Shitmar treatment. Do you know how much Shitmar is tanking? Stores are pulling that shit off the shelves* unless they have die-hard GW fanboys (who are becoming an endangered species)

*At least tthey're being pull out of shops in my area. Shitmar models and spin-off games are too expensive, and the actual game is even worse than Pre-Shitmar Fantasy.

...

Blizzard plans to wrap up Warcraft story in expansion after Legion, Illidan becomes Kerrigan aka destined superhero who will seed life on all planets ruined by Burning Legion and Azeroth will prob become some kind of sanctuary where orcs and humans are holding hands while Green Jesus transcends into Elune's husband position (they retconned her aswell in Legion)

so making Warcraft 4 RTS after WoW has done its thing will be more than disaster, not only the story is ruined but you wont have anything to continue the story on

How would Blizzard handle the lore if Metzen were to die, do you think?

I am sad to say but even if Metzen dies WoW lore is already too damaged, only way i can see Warcraft 4 being any good lorewise with 2 options:

1: if they try to pull Alternate Universe scenario (with new writers ofc) that continues the story of RoC/TFT with new characters and locations added

2: they set the game in past like WC4 would be set between TFT and WoW since there is a 4 years gap (originally the gap was 10 years) between events of TFT and WoW vanilla

All wrong dont listen to this fucking faggot.

This is basically it.
It all sounded good on paper but it broke some of the essence of the game. To be honest it is still a great game but it is just not as good as it could have been.
Compared to BW its a several steps back and forth.

To be honest Metzen gets a bunch of shithe doesn't deserve(also a lot he deserves). But he was behind pretty much all of the best that blizzard ever came up with. However the biggest problem is that, instead of doing universe driven narrative they started doing character driven narrative. It completely broke his stories, because we as the player, no longer had to fill in the blanks ourselves instead we now get a putrid shit covered hollywood inspired cheesy character driven miscreant that no one actually likes.

That's the only way to salvage it. But they won't allow it, and even if they did the new writers would be under such pressure from the rest of the team that it would be the same shit. Hell, I doubt they'd even hire anyone who isn't in love with everything Metzen does.

Retconning all of WoW would be the best way to go for sure.

The "alternate universe" nonsense would only serve to sell Warcraft 4 while maintaining WoW.

Nah, Metzen deserves all of the shit he gets. You know he was responsible for some of the really shitty art out there, right? He also enforced the sjw bullshit behind the Wow lore and SocialJustticeWatch with a straight face (Yea, I know he wasn't involved with SocialJusticeWatch, but I'll blame him anyway).

He also deserves all the shit he gets for making Heroes of the Storm such a sleazy Moba. Fuck him for being a greedy douche bag.

Mmo-champion is that way —-→

MMO Champion's mods are hilarious because they're some of the biggest faggots out there. I think they gave up with giving me infractions when I made fun of them and fanboys.

I refuse to believe mmo champion posters are over 16 years-old (don't read any posts about news, current events, or politics. Your head will hurt).

No it is not.

youtube.com/user/exp/videos
youtube.com/user/AfreecaTV/videos

I only watch Code S.

they are scum recruited to moderator status so they could push political agendas

RTS is dead and Blizzard is the one that killed it.

You can't take away what he has already created. Next time read through the whole thing you imbecile.

just pack your shit and walk away Metzen fanboy

...

...

Stop being fucking ignorant.
Credit where credit is due.

...

Just what i would expect from a metzen fanboy mmo-champion shitposter

when did you get 12 starters outside of campaign?

newest dlc lotv

changed multiplayer to a total shitfest where you start with 12 workers and no tec witch just effectively removes "rushing" by removing the option to build economy before building military. making everything a rush.

not to mention micro heavy blob units like never before.

since warcraft was originally being developed as a warhammer fantasy game before losing the license, it's fairly impressive that they managed to salvage it so well AND turn it into a lasting property

additionally starcraft's similarity to 40k could be considered rather inspired:
the Terran faction was inspired largely by 1st edition 40k lore (with the space marines being largely comprised of drug controlled hive world murderhobos) and while the zerg are often called ripoffs of the nids, they had better designs than what GW was running at the time (pic related)

Why are you surprised? Most of the mods and posters aren't even 21 yet, and think anime-lol-blizzard-mixed banners are awesome.

For some reason I'm still not banned from pissing all over shit posters over there.

Those look like Necron gauss rifles or whatever they're called.

I also agree that Blizz did a great job popularising their games, not just by copying and inserting their own ideas into them but also by making consistently good games where each sequel improved upon the previous one.
This is especially true for the Warcraft games.

Modern ActiBlizz is cancer that either needs to die or go back to making decent games again, although I fear that they simply no longer have the people who can do that.

Diablo and Starcrafrt are fucked at this point. Reaper of Souls had so much potential, but then season mode and the last few patches made D3 horrible once again (ruined armor sets, bringing back crafting items to justify the shitty cube, Jay Wilson-like ideas and dungeon layouts, etc.). Even if they make Warcraft 4, it's going to be a disaster.

Have fun enjoying SocialJusticeWatch shoved down your throat while Hearthstone becomes more of a Pay to win game (no one gives a fuck about Heroes of the Shitstorm).

I never played D3, but from what I heard they really dropped the ball with that one, which is a shame since I actually liked the previous games.

Hearthstone I know nothing about except that it's a card game of some sort, but those don't really interest me.
The Heroes assfaggots is somehow even worse than everything else available right now and they were really hoping to force it into becoming an esport.

Which is retarded as all hell seeing as how every such attempt, from Evolve to SC2 failed miserably (just take a look at any tournament and see how many people there are and where the contestants are playing).

And now we have this Overwatch which may or may not turn into a disaster.

I was deeply disappointed that even in this game, humanity is to involved with their own petty civil wars to get majorly involved with the greater galactic conflict happening literally on their doorstep.

I mean, I knew they weren't and shouldn't go full 'Humanity, fuck yea' because you don't want to piss of the Protoss and Zerg fans, but to deliberately avoid the delicious dramatic irony of the Xel'naga getting fucked by the race they didn't make and actively ignored in favor of their 'pure creations' is just…bad writing. I mean, you couldn't have set it up better and they just ignored it.

Ok I drunk posted my previous posts so ignore the most epic in gaming part but alien design part still stands.

Look this is shit people use fucking every time.
I still don't give a shit, what I said still stands.
Making alien human is shit. It was in original game, it only means they already fucked up back there.

how about the fact that the bad guys just randomly threw units at you as part of a multicultural gang bang rather than having actual fleshed out factions to fight?

Idiots keeps calling Starcraft 2 a Real Time Strategy when there's literally no Strategy.

It has pre-made maps which you can learn, and so already know what you're going to do, where you're going to go, and what the terrain's like before you've even loaded in.

There's very barely any base building or management. Occasionally you'll want to migrate your worker units, but for the most part the only thing you need to worry about in your base is how many of Building A you can spam so you can spam Troop A.

There's almost nothing in the way of defences. The game does not like you to build like a regular strategy game. It wants you to rush.

In most cases, Games are won by the gook who turret-rushes, or the guy who wins the first spam rush and can continue to pile on the troop spam. Even at the "high ranked" korean matches, there are people who turret-rush as if it's a strategy.

StarCraft is not a Real Time Strategy. It's a Real Time Shitfest. A Clusterfuck of a couple of unit types that are spammed until one team gets more numbers than the other.

git gud, faggot
learn to anticipate/scout and block the rushes

Explain the strategy in spamming tier 1 units in a line to the enemies base, which you don't need to scout because the maps are pre-set and you already know where they are and where they'll try going?

confirmed for never playing the game seriously
you scout to determine what he's gonna do based on his worker count, the time when he erects his gas building and/or tier1 unit factory

So your point is that any game which has anything that hard counters anything else is rock paper scissors?

i am glad you got proven wrong so now you need to resort to ID hoping to continue shitposting

I really liked it. I still think it's the best RTS right now. I just got bored with the genre.

I'm glad you're so paranoid that you think that everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.

Yea paranoia because rock-paper-scissors isnt about hard counters, right kido?

I was browsing Holla Forums and decided to read through this thread, and I ended up seeing two retards, one who was more correct than the other.
The implication from the first post that mentioned rock-paper-scissors is that any game with rock-paper-scissors balance is lazily balanced, but since you're arguing that any hard counters means a game has rock-paper-scissors balance that every game with any hard counters at all is lazily balanced. Is that true?

yes its a lazy design

Well then the problem becomes, what constitutes a hard counter?

If a game has an air unit that only hits ground, and an air unit that can hit air, is that considered a hard counter?

Are all games with elemental weaknesses poorly designed as well?

Because Blizzard.

Do you really need a better reason in *current year*?

Here is why it failed

1. Single player competitive games have never ever really been popular in the West because people here are fat lazy fucks who don't want to improve their skill level, admit they made faults when they lose and build upon them

2. MOBAs started to appear which are similar in some respects to RTS, the difference is you play with a team, so losing is never really your fault. MOBAs ushered in a wave of casual gamers who could stick with a competitive multiplayer experience because they had teammates to blame on their own shortcomings.

This is also why many FPS shooters like CoD and CS are popular with many people, because you often play on a team, where someone better can do the work for you, and someone worse can be blamed when you failed, meanwhile Deathmatch games like Quake, Fighting games (after Street Fighter 2, when stuff went online and became more hardcore), Starcraft in the West, never gained popularity at the same scale as they do in the East or compared to MOBAs because casual players can't account for their own mistakes

When I first saw Torbjorn in Overwatch I thought he was some special crossover with WoW

and now over watch doesn't even point out the fact that you fucking suck. just shows a reel at the end of people being "awesome"…. and it shows in the "game play" of op moves that let you be "bad ass" every 5 min while the rest of the time you are dealing with gitting you ass handed to you while the 5 fucks on the other team rotate thew their ults.

Shit like "this giant cannon deals 100 damage to armored units but only 30 to light because magic". SC2 has plenty of it.

vikings vs banchies vs marries

those are "hard" counters for the most part. 1 viking can kill all the banchies it wants without taking damage while marries can kill all the flying vikings until they land but even then they are going to get wreaked. while the banchies even when they are cloaked can destroy fucking Marines. especially when they where supposed to do splash damage like in the campaign but it was too much of a hard counter to massed light ground units but they removed that because it was tooo Haaaaaaaardd for scrubs to build a few fucking vikings to cover their MMM ball.

But the difference is that in sc2 most of those counters can be worked around. Especially since you're not forced into building only one unit the entire game. Your army composition should either be hard to counter, or you should be able to respond to the counter.

Like someone mentioned earlier, if you just run banelings and marines into each other the banelings will win, but if you micro marines then the banelings no longer hard counter them.

Also, does a ground unit that can only hit air units count as a hard counter to an air unit that can only hit air units?