Are these three movements on the left...

Workers controlling the means of production has nothing to do with totalitarianism.
Tankies belong on Holla Forums.

No all of them didn't even try to give the workers the means of production, not just that Stalin the shit head instead went full state capitalism "it was needed to transfer into communism after capitalism" but i think it was better to use markets instead of state monopoly, If anything the USSR is 100% Keynesian instead of Marxist

The Nazis hunted down the socialists Useful Idiotites all though they were nationalists just like the Nazis, they didn't give the workers the means of production instead they started a war economy as a method of economic growth and nationalized most of the industry

On fascism i don't have enough info or proofs to say any words, they are outside of my expertise

so no means of production for the workers, and no dismantlement of capitalism

But I've heard that despite the companies being private, all the demand, quantities and logistics were set by the government, leaving the management only to private citzens.

So, Fascism is in essence corporativism? I know that under Mussolini dictatorship the carta del lavoro was created (dozens of labor rights).

Useful idiots is filter word

who i meant : youtube.com/watch?v=Y0AjHeTyuxg

State ownership or control isn't leftist. Worker control is.

Whats the difference between the state and the worker control? Is there any scenario where the workers would control anything without legitimate(government) use of force?

The difference is in how the state is structured and who is in control of it. True worker control can only come out of a horizontally structured governmental body. In both fascists states their was a distinct separation between the party and the people and capitalists interests were still at play.

The only scenario where that would take place is in communism.

Then why is every nationalist party suppressed in every capitalist country. Why does the capitalist press slander them? Where is the Geroge Soros of Fascism?

Franks will defend this

it looks like they must have had a pretty easy time defending it.

Palmer?

It isn't their ideal form of government. If the choices are socialism or fascism they'll take the latter, though. It's also highly stigmatized. Being openly fascist is a great way to ostracize yourself from society.

Because nationalism limits markets, which limits profits. As soon as socialist become a threat and the people become disillusioned with capitalism, as is often the case, then the capitalists will jump on the nationalist bandwagon as it protects their interests.

The capitalists are nothing if not pragmatic - that much I agree - but they more readily find modern-day leftists to be useful than the nationalist right. This is why corporate media employs lefty shills, funds lefty orgs (BLM, antifa, any open borders group), and furthers lefty propaganda in their advertisements.

They fund anticapitalist propaganda and groups? News to me.

lefty or liberal? This is an important distinction that people who make the "left is the establishment" argument fail to make. The line is blurred somewhat intentionally. I know this board generally doesn't like chomsky but I think his point on the liberal bias in the media and the establishment is pretty spot on. When the public sees the media, universities, the establishmen as "left-wing" they're going to see these institutions as the border which you do not cross. You can't be more left-wing than the liberal media in this country without every single "rationalist" meme man on the internet calling you a "regressive leftist." Anyone to the left of liberal is seen as a crackpot

Being openly socialist used to be great way to ostracize yourself back when it was a revolutionary movement. It has long since been co-opted into a safe, trendy false consciousness pushed by media, academia, and every other capitalist institution.

it still makes people uncomfortable once they find out you don't mean social democrat

Being openly communist will still get you ostracized.
Trust me.
Socialism is seen as social democracy right now, so libs are willing to tolerate it,(see Cenk Uygur)If you tell them it's actually about dismantling capitalism, they'll probably lose their shit.

Fair enough but I don't think it can be denied that the normies have been conditioned to hate us more than you. It's because 🍀🍀🍀they🍀🍀🍀 fear us more than you.

Interesting but I don't see it working that way. The overton window has not been fixed in place but constantly moving left for decades, especially in Europe, which was preceded by a leftward shift in media and academia all of which facilitated by capitalist power.

Just because we'd both like to put a bullet in your head, Liberal, doesn't make us the same.

“Stalin will never make socialism; rather Mussolini will.”-Nicola Bombacci

Hitlerism abandoned the socialist economic policies of the NSDAP. Also Goebbels criticized Hitler for not being a real socialist

Once again it depends on how you define "left." And most people who make this argument define "left" as liberals and leftists but mostly liberals. Yes, socially, we have become more accepting of black people and women and shit, but at least in the US there has not been any sort of real criticism of capitalism for a long time now. I'm at uni right now and I can tell you that all that bullshit about feelings and equality that they preach in the gender studies courses and black studies and queer studies and whatever else doesn't actually carry over into economics and business courses. The people who will actually be shaping this world (business, econ, and poli-sci majors) have been worshipping the God of the free market in school for several years. The starbucks baristas with the popular twitter accounts where they post all their snarky critiques of conservatives and funny beyonce reaction faces XD are going to have little to no effect on society. The base structure is fundamentally controlled by people who are not critical of our system. The buzzfeed kiddos and nu males do nothing to challenge this. They live in the spectacular world of the pseudo-left.

I've noticed this as well about a decade ago. Great emphasis is place on the "struggles" of women, non-whites, deviants, etc but I rarely ever hear anyone talk about the working class anymore. The only leftists I've met with a philosophical foundation in economics were white men. It's no doubt why B████'s supporters were mostly white men. Others merely operate on tribalist instincts. Hillary panders and promises more gim me dats and the African falls in line. Her supporters admit this when that say that only white male leftists would vote third party because their muh privilege allows it - because they're not dependant on the system. Non-whites are the new lumpenproletariat and the first allies of capitalism. There can be no brotherhood between the races and so inter-sectionalism is completely non-threatening to the present order. Only the bond of shared blood and shared racial identity can bind people together tight enough to break capitalist power.

meh. I mean there are certainly leftists who take it that far in the name of "anti-idpol." I'm a brocialist by reddit standards, but by leftypol standards I'm probably an SJW. Class comes first not because racism and sexism shouldn't be addressed but because material wealth and political power remains what enforces all these other types of oppression. You can't fix racism and sexism by speech-policing. Some reform at the moment couldn't hurt, but ultimately the bulk of the change when it comes to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc will have to come during and after the revolution. You can't change institutional power with petty liberal speech-policing movements.

I didn't actually read through the end of that speech very carefully until just now. That's some serious edge, nazbol. Be cautious.

There is a consensus. It's just there is also a fair amount of propaganda.

Fascism (be it Italian or German) is Right - simple Capitalism, stripped of all pretence. Socialism (Soviet) is Left.

Workers can control the state via Direct Democracy and have a lot of power invested in decentralized power structures.

It is not suppressed.

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