Why do comic book fans have such weird taste in movies...

comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/30/justice-league-zack-sndyer-directors-cut-does-exist/ vid related in article, DC fans are frothing over Justice League

Love is a strong word. I would better classify Holla Forums's feelings toward the MCU as "no reason to hate it". Marvel tends to have more respect toward fans and the source material, while DC holds nothing but contempt.

The best example is how the MCU and the DCU used the work of Jack Kirby. In the MCU, there's an actual attempt to bring Jack Kirby's art to life. There's at least some respect for the man that made Marvel. Contrast this with the DCU which used elements of Jack Kirby's magnum opus, THE NEW GODS, in Justice League. They took some of Jack Kirby's best work and reduced to fucking generic video game looking shit.

Zack Snyder makes a damn good movie though, gotta admit that
Justice League was a major disappointment for me, it looked awful and the story was shit. I'd love to watch a 3 hour documentary on what went wrong. They should have followed Zack's lead on MoS and BvS and not have given him that awful script to work with.
Not that Zack isn't responsible for some of the mess. I could list off 10 paragraphs just of things that baffled me with the art direction. Like that scene where Steppenwolf takes the cube from the Amazonians. That scene I actually liked but it still looked terrible in a fascinating way. I feel like it was on the verge of being the greatest scene in super hero cinematic history but there wasn't enough money that went into the effects and the colorist fucked it up making them look even worse.

The only real issue I had with MoS was the constantly jumping around in flashbacks to Clark's upbringing. Everything else- all the weird shit on Krypton and the big set-piece battles toward the end- I actually found enjoyable. I understand why people don't like seeing massive-scale destruction in a Superman film, but in context (both Supes and Zod not knowing how to control their full strength under a yellow sun) it at least made some sense.
I wouldn't call BvS or JL "good", but I do find DC's films to be consistently more interesting than anything Marvel has on offer.

I wish I'd saved it, but somewhere an user had posted comparisons of certain shots as they appeared in trailers and as they appeared in the finished film. It looked like after Whedon took over, a lot of scenes that previously had an overall cool palette had their color grading redone to have this distractingly saturated red-orange lighting.

There are plenty of reasons to detest the MCU. Constant ironic jokes or snarky quips, forgettable/bad villains, bad changes compared to the comics (Civil War, which wasn't great to begin with removing all paper-thin political allegory to become five faggots fighting six faggots in a parking lot over nothing, for example), pointless winks and nudges to make people who know cursory information about comics think they are masters of the lore or some shit, poorly done side characters, continuity that builds to nothing, inexplicable recasting between movies, and watering down the genre to be completely devoid of any original vision. Compare Raimi's Spider-Man to any of the MCU films and the difference is night and day between a (somewhat) original vision of a superhero's adventures and generic formula garbage. I would much rather have no superhero movies at all than have Marvel continue to shit out two generic boring movies per year.

those scenes were great, arguably the best part. The child actor they got is the best I've seen, weird he hasn't blown up yet.

They were boring as shit, overdone and frankly unnecessary.

I'll concede they were unnecessary and from that standpoint they shouldn't be there, but from my view which is I wouldn't have minded if it went on past 3 hours i enjoyed every minute of Man of Steel.

(checked)
I should have been more specific, the scenes did a pretty good job of building up the character. It's the jumping back and forth that I didn't care for.

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People disliked those movies because they were bad, not because they were dark.

They're bad because of there's no fucking substance behind the edge and divergences. The Kents have less of an effect on Clark's moral compass than the crystal ghost of Jor-L. Lois is literally just a means to move the plot. Batman being so crazy that he's easily manipulated into trying to kill Superman. Superman spent so much of BvS moping around, looking pissed, and brooding that he was more of a joke than your average MCU quip. Both movies are so contrived that there's almost no sincerity in them, which makes the approach being taken with Justice League all the more insulting.

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You wanna know why the Raimi Spider-man trilogy is probably my favorite series of capeshit movies? It's because they were campy. They weren't completely silly and ridiculous, but they had a lightheartedness and vibrance that gave them flavor and heart. When I say lightheartedness, I don't mean quips or jokes, I just mean that they should be made to let you hope. They should have some modicum of love put into them, and that's just not in these newer films.

That's what makes these movies bad. They're superhero films, and yet they throw away what makes these people superheroes almost as if they're ashamed. Someone like Superman shouldn't be so flawed. He's the Man of Tomorrow, his moral compass and integrity are huge parts of who he is. Having some darkness in your movie is fine, but there has to be some light at the end of the tunnel that overcomes that darkness, otherwise what am I supposed to feel? Superheroes aren't meant to be carnival mirror criticisms of their own medium, they're supposed to lift us up and inspire us. They're supposed to be people that you root for.

I agree. I liked both films, but they have the same glaring problem where Superman inspires no hope. You could say his sacrifice is supppsed to be that, but it's such a sombre note that is more about remembrance than optimism.

If there's anything I liked about Justice League, it's that the scenes with Superman drastically improved his character in that regard.

Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman were bad because they were shit movies with glaring plot holes which crapped on Superman to make other characters look better and makes him someone who is not really a hero so much as a guy who was forced into the "Superman" business. He's stupid, he's incompetent, he's not cool, he gets kicked all over the place and he's flat as board because Henry Cavill is not permitted to show off any charisma lest he upstage everyone else. I can live with a dark and edgy Superman, I refuse to live with a loser Superman in a crappy movie, made by a guy who clearly fucking hates Superman and would've made Superman an evil bastard in Justice League if it wasn't for WB stepping in.

Being optimistic has nothing to do with it. Superman was Reeves 2.0 in Justice League and he was still just as flat and boring in there as he ever was in the other DCEU films.

That's part of it too, I agree. Cavill's Superman is not able to be the true Man of Steel or Man of Tomorrow not only because he doesn't have the integrity and character he should have, but because like you said, he doesn't have the competence he should have. Even if they were to give him that competence, it's simply been ruined by earlier showings in his continuity. It's a damned shame, too.

I know that feel, the "house style" of the MCU just grates on me so bad. DC's movies are usually an odd mix of great and bad, both MCU and Fox's stuff are room temperature all the way though.

I keep hearing that, I remember when everyone was so sure Batman would be the real hero of BvS. You know who actually doesn't like Superman? Bruce Timm, there I said it

I know I'm on my own here but Batman Begins fucked up Batman worse than MoS ever thought about screwing up Superman, and everybody just ignored it because it was a "dark Batman" coming off a pair of Joel Schumacher trainwrecks. I don't mind a frowny Superman who's learning the ropes as he goes, but a drifter Batman who doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up and has all his tough science thinking done by Lucius misses everything appealing about the character and turns him into a generic ninja guy. Compare to the way he's set up in Mask of the Phantasm, Baleman seems like such a loser. They pretty much ignored the characterization they'd established him with in TDK (saving the Joker for example) and so much the better. David Goyer just sucks, even when he's the writer on a decent movie the script is always the worst thing about it.

most of these arguments are based around preconceived notions of Superman how how it's a betrayal of your comic lore. Why can't you just see this as a standalone series of movies? Superman could be evil and I'd be fine with it because I don't give a shit about comics

I'd argue campiness vs. seriousness is personal preference and irrelevant to the final product. Snyder does serious movies, yes, and that's not what DC fans seem to want, but his execution is flawless
this isn't true for a lot of the people bitching about the movie. I've seen countless times people saying they needed more time exploring his vulnerabilities. And having the Martha bit revelation in BvS wasn't enough. People instead threw a hissyfit pretending they didn't understand why that alone would be enough to stop Batman from killing him. People jizz all over that scene from Age of Ultron halfway through where the plot comes to an awkward halt at Jeremy Renner's wife's house. That's what they want, They want human character interactions from the 'Man of Steel', a beacon of virtue that's not meant to have flaws in a human sense, he's an ideal to strive toward. Snyder executed Superman as an idol perfectly, not just in Man of Steel but in BvS. Being an ideal doesn't mean he can't show that ideals are false. The whole 'false gods' narrative of BvS was all about showing the reality of a Superman that I don't think hardcore DC fans were willing to accept, even though Zack never broke Superman's character in order to do it.
DC fans will never be satisfied. They don't want anything genuinely stimulating they just want to be coddled in a warm opioid embrace where they get to turn there brain off and watch Superman punch a nazi.

I have no idea what you're even referring to. Maybe BvS "crapping" on Superman making him out as a murderer in the eyes of Batman? That wasn't devaluing Superman as a character, it was more of a thought experiment and by the end of the movie we're meant to see through that.

Hey pointdexter, they're shit movies, lore wise or not. Remove the iconic characters used and reviews would've been worse, and Synder would've been put on a never hire blacklist.

Now this is some autism i haven't seen in a while. Holy crap how stupid are you?

everything's autistic to you. How about explain your argument.

If it's a standalone series then why the fuck is it using established characters instead of making its own universe?

i tried watching MoS recently and I couldn't even sit through it long enough to get to the fight at the end. It is hard for me to articulate exactly what is wrong with the movie. It just doesn't feel good. Words that come to mind when I think back to watching it are "awkward, sterile, fake". I couldn't find any of the relationships genuine, not between Clark and his parents or Clark and Lois. There a lot of things in the movie that I get on a logical level, but they just don't work when put the screen.

The two positive things I can say about this movie is that I want to impregnate Faora and Snyder can realize believable DBZ-like fight scenes to live action. I'd much rather see him adapt something that is more style over substance, like Cashern or 8-Man.

why is there ever any revisions of Superman/Batman then? Why not keep inventing new characters?

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Revising them a little and doing something new is fine, but you're going to get criticized if you change them into something shitty.

Batman having all his tech stuff done for him by others has been a staple in comics for years before Batman Begins and unlike Man of Steel, he does eventually decide to proactively become Batman, as opposed to Snyder's Superman, who is cool just sitting at home drinking beer after Jor-El's talk until Zod arrives. Hell, that was the single most offensive thing about Snyder's Superman. He learns to fly, learns his origins, gets his suit, Jor-El's implores him to go out there and inspire people…and then Clark just fucks off back to Smallville and would've probably stayed there if Zod and company didn't invade Earth.

The worst thing about Nolan's movies is how they make Batman into a killer while having Bruce whine about his no-kill code every chance he gets. Oh sure, you won't kill Joker but you're totally cool killing hapless ninjas in an explosion which also probably took out the guy you were trying to save in the process, unintentionally were responsible for the deaths of all the goons at Wayne Manor you knocked out and left to burn, left Ra's al Neeson to die in a train crash and killed Harvey Dent a mere five minutes after you stopped the worst terrorist in Gotham's history from turning into red past on the ground.

Batman wasn't the real hero of Batman v. Superman? The entire plot revolves around his character's development. All Superman does is be a complete idiot by falling into every PR trap Lex Luthor makes for him, mopes around about people hating him instead of trying to fix his image, gets his ass kicked by Batman and then later gets thrown around by Doomsday before dying in the most retarded way possible. Snyder's Superman isn't a character, he's a fucking plot device.

Good for you, people went into Snyder's movies wanting to see the characters they love in a good movie.

Jesus Christ, no wonder you came here to shit up the board, even Holla Forums would laugh their asses off at your shit taste in movies. Come to think of it, they did, that's why you came here to get some validation, right?

In your imagination, maybe, everyone fucking hated that shit, along with most of the rest of Age of Ultron.

You don't give a shit about comics, yet you spout out bullshit like this like you're some kind of fucking expert?

Wait…Hack Snyder is that you? Has WB kicked your ass out yet for losing them credibility and money ever since Watchmen?

People shit on the Martha scene because it was a moment that tried to be serious but was undercut by how ridiculous and contrived it was. Superman had so many times ask Batman for help but just waits until Batman is about to harpoon him to plead for his mother's life with just her name. You don't need to care about the comics to see how fucking silly that looks in live action. And Zack didn't break Superman's character because he never bothered to give him any in the first place, and the movies suffer for it greatly.

For somebody claiming to want a sincere discussion on Snyder's films, you're pretty eager to talk about how wrong people are for having certain expectations for superhero movies.

you keep telling yourself that bud

from memory he was getting beaten to a pulp and confusedly blurted out "Martha" because that's what he was thinking about. It wasn't awkward or forced, you're just basing your opinion off a meme you heard on the internet like everyone else.

also I don't go into movies with expectations, but that's just me. I'd be pissed off if a film required me to read 100 issues of some childrens comics to appreciate it. Again, just me.

Not when you're doing superheroes. If you refuse to have camp in capeshit, you've fucked up. It's inherent to the genre, and refusing to have any of it just shows that you hate the genre, and makes the whole world less believable because it needs to be clear the world is inherently ridiculous.

I probably would have liked 2 hours of the opening bit with Kypton.

Not him, but I did like the bit with Hawkeye's family, but I'm always a suckers for seeing scenes in superhero's lives when they aren't punching supervillains. And on top of that, the whole movie was annoying and awful, so a dramatic change in pace that did something coimpletely different would have been well recieved by me regardless.

archive.is/qRUer
archive.fo/iqIxl
Wait a minute, you're that faggot that constantly has those meltdowns over at Holla Forums, this shit's been a bait thread since the very beginning. Archives provided for reference
What do you think about the dub of dragon maid?

It bothers me that they keep tagging in these unproven no-name directors to work on live-action anime movies, then they give them no budget, and they force a bunch of dopey, talentless actors on them.. But then they give Superman to Zack Snyder and he makes some of the most well realized live-action animu fighting ever put to screen.. but it's a goddamned Superman movie.

Honestly, I used to think Zack Snyder's action scenes were cool but ironically, Man of Steel changed my mind. He tries to use a lot of slo-mo trickery and shit getting smashed to pieces and blowing up to replace the lack of good combat choreography but it really shows with something like Superman, where stuff blowing up and getting smashed to pieces and slow-mo is a given, so Snyder can't use it to get a free pass on having Kryptonians just tackle each other into buildings fifteen times in a row without any visible impact on the characters.

They've always been visually impressive, but Snyder blows dick at creating the emotional weight for fight scenes. He's done a terrible job with the DC movies because he's banking on the fact that these characters have almost a century of history to create the emotional weight for the story, instead of making a movie that actually does it's job.

Ok here's my opinon.

interesting ideas very flawed execution. The script needed more refinement. I don't like the film though I can understand why others do. It has good moments in it like when Pa Kent reveals to Clark he is an alien and Zod's reaction to seeing the hologram of Jor El. Sadly, they are contrasted by stupid moments and it doesn't mesh well as a whole. It feels like there's a lot more they could have done but they just stuck to a generic alien invasion story. I like Zod's background and his relationship with Jor El. I wish they explored it more and maybe they could have done a father figure thing like they did in Batman Begins where Ra's acts as a father figure to Bruce where he's hard but doing it for Bruce's own good to toughen him up. The scene with him learning how to fly was probably my favorite scene in the film. I don't like how Superman is incompetent with his powers.

Completely retarded. Superman is still incompetent and stupid with his powers instead of being actually competent. Lex was awful. I get they wanted to update him as a tech mogul but he should've been more like a Steve Jobs than a Mark Zuckerberg. Seriously, I think Lex is genuinely autistic in the film. The plot is standard but its the overall aesthetic and weird moments that ruin it for me.

As for Marvel they're cookie cutter but watchable. I actually kind of miss the Sam Raimi Spiderman films where they had a heart to it and tried to be a movie rather than just insert random stuff for comic references to please the online crowd.

Here's my issue with the whole "MoS is shit! Fuck Zack Snyder" meme. When MoS came out yes there was bitching from comic book nerds, but people still acknowledged in was an amazing film. You can look at most overly obnoxious MCUfag Movie Bob for evidence of this. He gave it a negative review but openly admitted it was the most visually stunning and expertly crafted super hero movie he's seen. His only criticisms were "I don't like what they did with my Superman!".
Go back to 2013 and watch the reviews from MCUfags. Christ Stuckmann is another example. When everyone wanted to throw Zack Snyder under the bus the bus for Man of Steel it became obvious that they adopted all of the meme opinions from Redlettermedia, whose review perfectly sums up every internet "nerd" reviewer's opinion on Man of Steel. Quietly changing the narrative over 2-3 years until everyone was parroting the same opinions like a fucking retard.

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People were saying the exact same shit about TFA immediately after release. Hell, even your favorite scapegoat RLM gave it a positive review and yet many people have still come around to acknowledge it was shit. People's opinions of movies are always way higher immediately after seeing them until the novelty wears off.

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If TFA is The First Avenger, then I must say the movie is still crap. They needed time to get on the current level.

he's talking about The Force Awakens and it's a shit comparison

they literally copy RLm criticisms point for point about the movie. None of which appeared in any other reviews at the time. It's the same thing that happened with the Phantom Menace, and no I'm not a prequelfag. People like to parrot their favorite youtube idol's opinions because it's comforting to them spouting the same shit as if they're speaking from authority, because if X said it it's factual. In this case Mike and Redditlettermedia.

Oh no, its retarded.

I hate Movie Bob's opinion on everything, meanwhile you agree with him on everything to do with MCU and DCEU except you're les enthusiastic about it, because liking what you like is soooo uncool and your edge only allows you to say they're "passable" meanwhile you watch every single Marvel movie when it's released and hate every DCEU movie. Just own the fact you agree with im.

You really are a special one aren't you?

you hate movie bob because he's a liberal faggot and he's open about being an mcu fanboy. not because you disagree with him on super hero films. nice dodge though.

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What do you think about the dub of dragon maid?

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you're confused, aren't you?

Well the thread was made by a redditor who supposedly hates us, so its no surprise its cancerous as hell.

Coming from the guy who constantly defends moviebob, nah. Thread's beyond dead at this point.

ironic you'd call me autistic. Cool meme btw.

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dude you have literal aspergers. You've been misinterpreting every post I've made. You just posted the fucking 'awoo' meme and in the same post called me reddit. Just cry some more and give me another (you) you dumb faggot. Meanwhile the reply count on this thread dedicated to a 2013 movie is soaring while you're quivering your nuts "d-dead thread h-haha". Not that it's my intention, I'd rather talk more in-depth and seriously about the movie and Zack Snyder like I was yesterday. Either way your replies are appreciated :)

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You want a serious answer? Let's go.

To discuss BvS, we have to discuss Dark Knight Returns. The confrontation between those two characters was based largely on the same confrontation in the DKR comics, so it's useful to look at the similarities between the two and why one is great and the other a hot mess.

Both are much darker than a standard comic book featuring these two characters. Both could be considered alternate timelines from the mainstream comic book one, as neither follows the comic storyline exactly.

But DKR does not take place in a vacuum. There are hints at a history much like the regular comic one, only with some slight differences and an added 20ish years of more stuff happening.

These are two friends who haven't had a falling out, who aren't operating under mistaken beliefs or deceit, who are not acting in response to a singular event. They are working out a conflict that goes to the core of their personal belief systems. It is a battle of ideals with each of them representing a way of looking at the world.

And they don't want to kill each other. Each is trying to prove a point. And at the same time, neither can let themselves lose, because it's too important.

And in the end, it is settled in a compromise; albeit one orchestrated by Batman.

What do you get with BvS?

Strong Guy fights Smart Guy.

That's it. There is nothing deeper going on. These people don't know one another. They are each beating on the other for reasons best described as "confused". And they want nothing more substantial than to kill the other one.

And in the end it just ends. I was going to say it ended by deus ex machina, but that does not do justice to the subtlety of the classic deus ex machina. It just fucking ends "because".

And no amount of visual spectacle can make up for the fact that because of that, it's dull. It doesn't matter. It has no meaning or context. It is soulless.

How many fucking (You)s do you need before you leave?

Hey reddit

user I'll reply later tonight but thanks for the post

not even here for (you)s. And I plan to keep this thread alive at least a few more days. Hopefully I'll have the energy to rewatch MoS tonight and I might make some webms. + I'm planning on rewatching Justice League, this time in Imax later in the week. You're stuck with me.

Even more reason to report

What do you think about the dub of dragon maid?

Comics are stupid

Man of Steel was okay.
You could argue (or at least I say that), that the movie was awfully long, his foster dad died in a dumbass way, Superman is a really boring expressionless character and once you see it, you can't unsee the overuse of sped-up zooms. It is a cool effect, yes. But not every 2 minutes. I don't even care that Superman destroyed everything while fighting (that's a really retarded argument anyway, especially since all those fat comic geeks should fucking know it's a setup for Luthor conflict). And I don't care that he killed Zod… it's actually that dumbass family's fault that didn't simply get out of that laser's range.

But compared to Man of Steel, BvS had actual, inexcusable shit in it. I went to see it for Batman, and batshit crazy Batman was the best thing for me in the movie. But holy crap:

The only actually good things:

Zack Snyder just isn't a great film maker in general. Most people will agree that Burton and Nolan Batman worked (some people will be butthurt that elements of comic lore were changed, but those people are silly and we ignore them). They were the right kind of dark.

How is that relevant?

Then leave.

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So it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. You just want to drag out a past discussion that has already been finished months ago.

The reason why the Raimi Spider-man trilogy are the best 'marvel' movies is because they're are the most like DC films

No, it fucking isn't, Superman 9/11ing Metropolis and Smallville is barely brought up by Luthor in Batman v. Superman. The whole shitfest with niggers in Africa is Lex's main trump card, as retarded as that is.

Do you REALLY want this thread to be spammed with nigger dicks and scat porn so that mods are forced to delete it? 'Cause your thread is dead as it is.

SAGE

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No, it fucking isn't, Superman 9/11ing Metropolis and Smallville is barely brought up by Luthor in Batman v. Superman. The whole shitfest with niggers in Africa is Lex's main trump card, as retarded as that is.

Do you REALLY want this thread to be spammed with nigger dicks and scat porn so that mods are forced to delete it? 'Cause your thread is dead as it is.

==SAGE==>>947081

He's a tard, there's no real way to argue with him, also don't forget to sage.

come on now, this is by far the most dramatic entry of a Superman in cinema and Henry Cavill is more than capable of channeling his emotions.
As for the zooms I understand why some people see them as a 'gimick', but it doesn't bother me and if that's how Zack wants his movie to be envisioned then that's how I want it to be. I could say the same for a lot of directors and their quirks. Jean-luc Godard's Breathless was originally panned for it's unorthodox editing and continuity-breaking jump-cuts, but as time went on and he built up a reputation that 'gimmick' has become one of the main attractions of the film and it's seen as one of the most beautiful films of French cinema from the 60's.

Overall I can't find fault in your criticism. I very much enjoyed BvS but you're right that their reasons for fighting were primarily plot-driven rather than a battle of two philosophically incompatible personalities, although their were definitely elements of that there. Particularly from Superman's perspective. I'll have to rewatch BvS to think more on it. That said, I'd much rather a well-executed movie like BvS where the thinking is more in the subtext rather than a cringey face-value "From my point of view the Jedi are evil" tier movie with competing ideologies complete with forced story-stopping character-interactions where motivations clearly and awkwardly laid out through unnecessary dialogue, which in my opinion is the most obnoxious method of story-telling.

that's not even what samefagging is, and I don't plan on bumping my thread if no one's interested

I'd hope the mods here aren't assholes and they'd ban the real troublemakers
kek

not sure where you're making a connection that I'm that guy. I don't even post like that guy and I actively discuss my opinions while being cordial, never stirring the pot unless someone
asks for it.

it's weird because for a couple years I'm sure I remember everyone I knew hated Batman Begins and then suddenly when The Dark Knight was so hyped after Heath Ledger's death everyone changed their minds. Was that anyone else's experience?

why argue with me instead of having a conversation?

btw I didn't rewatch Man of Steel tonight so no webms for a few days at least. I hope this board has sound enabled.

No one cares, attention whore.
You really are fucking retarded.

thanks for the reply letting me know that you don't care user. As always your cluttering my thread with replies is appreciated. See you tomorrow.

The reason Rami's Spiderman 2 is the best of the Marvel movies is because it has a reasonable villain who the audience can relate to. A villain who is just evil becomes cartoonish. That's the same reason the first 2 X-Men movies on are the high end of the scale. In the first X-Movie when Wolverine says Magneto is right, the audience can't disagree. In Spiderman 2, we can understand that Doc Ock's obsession cost him everything, so he becomes even more dedicated to his pursuits, because it's all he has left. That's a genuine human emotion.

And for the Marvel movies, this has been and continues to be their greatest weakness. But DC is putting no effort into being better about this sort of thing. I have no clue why Lex does what he does. Steppenwolf and Doomsday and so much trash. Even with all it's virtues Wonderwoman's Aries barely has a personality and has no motivations a human could understand. He may as well be Cthulhu. That could be the superhero movie motto for all villains "might as well be Cthulhu".

Funny how quite a few of the arguments you've had here boil down to:
Apathy =/= Taste, user.

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Hey Holla Forums

OP stop talking to yourself.