Batman's Detective Problem

Carson Murphy
Carson Murphy

You know, this trailer made me realize something about why proper detective stories will continue to be a rarity in Batman media as long as DC keeps on forcing him into the standard "superhero vs. supervillain throwdown of the week" mold.

Detective stories thrive on mystery. Batman vs. Joker or Batman vs. Riddler or Batman vs. Scarecrow Round 23157 render this almost fundamentally impossible. You effectively have to keep on coming up with new antagonists on a weekly basis with their own unique dastardly plots and scenarios to throw Batman into in order to preserve the detective element in a proper fashion.

Gotham By Gaslight is a case in point - the detective element survives by virtue of mystery about the Ripper's true identity and motives.

All urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=XbsDvGtTRWU

Jace Campbell
Jace Campbell

Long Halloween, Dini's Detective Comics run and Black Mirror, to name a few, are Batman detective stories done right.

Henry Garcia
Henry Garcia

Well with hush was a good way to make detective story. Then they made it muh family shit tier…..

Christopher Powell
Christopher Powell

There were a couple of good ones in Batman: Black and White.
I still think the Denny O'Neil/Neil Adams run was the apex. With an honourable mention to O'Neil's work with Marshall Rogers and Norm Breyfogle.

Thomas Carter
Thomas Carter

Batman's Detective Problem

Batman was "co"created by Bill Finger, a writer with a near limitless love of trivia. He kept journals where he cataloged all the interesting bits of information he came across. Nothing was too mundane or pointless to escape his notice. He then used all that trivia to write fun Batman stories.

Considering that from the eighties onward, the caliber of talent involved in cape comics has declined, then it's no wonder Batman's detective abilities, which relied heavily on trivia, also declined. Modern writers simply aren't nearly as well read as Bill Finger was, nor do they see the use of even the smallest bit of trivia. The result is Batman reduced to plots that are easy to write and lack any real detective work.

Ian Thomas
Ian Thomas

Batman's detective skills are represented by making him BatGod who can beat all theJustice League and blackmail Darkseid and rival Lex Luthor in science stuff.

Samuel Sanchez
Samuel Sanchez

Its the Sherlock problem. Sherlock holmes whilst an impossible badass, would always list how he solved the thing.

Now the modern Sherlock from BBC just tells you how awesome he is.

Isaiah Lewis
Isaiah Lewis

I still think the Denny O'Neil/Neil Adams run was the apex.
100% agreed.

Isaac Gutierrez
Isaac Gutierrez

Are they going to portrait Jack the Ripper as the kike he was or are they going to make him a white man?

Ethan Baker
Ethan Baker

But if batman is going to do actual detective shit instead of doing it off screen or having the batcomputer do it for him it's going to take away time from edgy brooding and kung fu shenanigans

Gabriel Thompson
Gabriel Thompson

It's pathetic what passes for trolling for these days.

Brody Russell
Brody Russell

God the BBC Sherlock is so shit with that. I remember this one time where Sherlock got information the audience didn't have and solved the mystery off-screen.
Writing a good mystery requires autistic attention to detail, something very few people have naturally and almost nobody wants to develop.

Adrian Diaz
Adrian Diaz

Writing a good mystery requires autistic attention to detail, something very few people have naturally and almost nobody wants to develop.

Id say worse, id say JJ abrams pioneered the new kind of writing:
Explain it later writing.

People keep falling for the promise of later.

Easton Bell
Easton Bell

reddit spacing
That aside, what you say is still true. It seems like the only thing BBC Sherlock even tries to do at this point is build intrigue.
It's very profitable because you will get people to come back just to get the payoff to all that intrigue, meaning the content doesn't have to be good. People are coming back for something that is promised, not something that was actually there in the first place.
Eventually people go "I've spent a lot of my time and money consuming this media, and I think of myself as having good taste. I wouldn't have spent all that time consuming this media if it was bad, therefore this media must be good".

Levi Kelly
Levi Kelly

reddit spacing
It's a personal problem honest. It's more to do with my reading problems so I space out my text, then reddit.
point is build intrigue.
Also: "ITZ ABOT DA CHARACTERZ"
Its such a mindless consumeristic reductionist viewpoint of characters. "I just wanna see these characters fuck around and do their shit even if it doesn't make any sense because I want gratification NOW"
Or in a Nutshell:
BAZINGA
*Laughtrack*
I feel like instead of just consuming shitty Sitcoms, people want shows with ongoing stories to BECOME sitcoms. These streams of never ending character quips and quirks. Where every once in a while the music gets serious and you pretend that the callback to that moment 20 episodes later means something.

They want the illusion of being smart whilst eating this never-ending stream of burgers until they vomit them all out, and then focus on finding the next stream of burgers to eat.

Dylan Howard
Dylan Howard

i don't know if it is "sunk cost fallacy" or if there is some other more precise term for it, but the whole, "I've invested time and/or money into this, I had an emotional reaction to psychologically manipulative stimuli, therefore what I just experience must be good" is rampant. Especially with seeing movies in a theater. If you polled people just as they left a theater, ratings of movies would be 2+ points higher on a 10 point scale.

Lucas Gomez
Lucas Gomez

Cognitive dissonance also applies, or rather what happens when your brain tries to reduce cognitive dissonance.
Funnily enough it's the same technique used to get people into cults. Well, one of the techniques anyway.

Liam Evans
Liam Evans

What used to bug me about Law & Order: Criminal Intent was how Goren would just get them to confess by telling them how they did it. If he can hypnotise people into confessing, why do any detective work?

Jeremiah Taylor
Jeremiah Taylor

the real identity is not known
is suspected to be either the prince or the family medic of the royal family
he was a kike
/pol/ you really should take your Meds and stay in your echochamber

Liam Taylor
Liam Taylor

Long Halloween was good user, what are you smoking? Was a nice trick on figuring out who was killing mob. If was Dent, calendar men, Sofia or the wife of Dent that in don't remember the name

Jeremiah Lewis
Jeremiah Lewis

They learned that Jack the Ripper was a Czechoslovokian last year, so he was white.

Ayden Morales
Ayden Morales

Czechoslovakian
white
Was a polish kike (((user))) therefor not white
/leftypol/index.html

Lincoln Jenkins
Lincoln Jenkins

/leftypol/index.html

Not an argument.

Levi Taylor
Levi Taylor

the prince or the family medic of the royal family
who is Aaron Kosminski

Jacob King
Jacob King

basing yourself from kikepedia
even so three paragraph above clearly says was unknown
totally believe a (((DNA))) test made from the blood on the scarf of the victim
never mind both the old and the new test have been compromised

Isaiah Martinez
Isaiah Martinez

Send help.

Ayden Evans
Ayden Evans

You guys realize it's going to turn out that The Joker is Jack the Ripper right?

Isaac Williams
Isaac Williams

If I recall in the original story it was Bruces uncle.

Chase Richardson
Chase Richardson

The animated films aren't exactly faithful to their source material. I'm still banking on the easy cashgrab that would be having The Joker as the ripper.

Xavier Hill
Xavier Hill

It's actually the joker disguised as Bruce's uncle.

Noah Gomez
Noah Gomez

What was that one animation called where Batman fought bane with her nunchucks?

Aaron Campbell
Aaron Campbell

his*

Luke Nguyen
Luke Nguyen

Some of the cartoons like Batman: The Animated Series and Beware the Batman do attempt to put more detective scenes, but even those rely on shortcuts here and there.

Michael Turner
Michael Turner

I had an idea for a Batman movie where he's been doing his thing for a year now and he's damaged the mob bosses but one day he encounters the Riddler and would have to use his detective skills to find him. It would be a cat and mouse game. Honestly, I would like to see that.

Noah Phillips
Noah Phillips

Batman Shanghai.

Gabriel Murphy
Gabriel Murphy

"I'm not a butcher, I'm not a Yid,
Nor yet a foreign Skipper,
But I'm your own light-hearted friend,
Yours truly, Jack the Ripper."

Logan Parker
Logan Parker

The Yorkshire Ripper's tapes were all genuine too…

Ryder Russell
Ryder Russell

he doesn't realize that he is living through the death of Western civilization
he doesn't realize that the death of western civilization means the death of all civilization
he doesn't realize whites will soon have nothing left to lose in life
he has no idea what's coming
I pity you.

Isaac Ramirez
Isaac Ramirez

Its more a wannabe try hard from /tv/ than anything else, just report for derailing and ignore.

Daniel Brown
Daniel Brown

he realize all this
he shitpost on a Chinese carpet picturing place anyway
I pity (((jew)))

Hunter Nguyen
Hunter Nguyen

I wonder (((who))) is behind this post.

Jacob Watson
Jacob Watson

Hey /tv/

Elijah Foster
Elijah Foster

Hey /tv/

Sebastian Rodriguez
Sebastian Rodriguez

Hey /tv/

Cooper Wright
Cooper Wright

Judging by the trailers, it actually appears to be Harvey Dent. Or at least, that's what they are kind of strongly hinting at. Probably gonna be some kind of Jekyll and Hyde thing, where Two-Face commits the murders but Harvey has no clue what's happening.

Wyatt Phillips
Wyatt Phillips

(((Warner Brothers)))

Dominic Thompson
Dominic Thompson

That would be interesting though from what I remember of the graphic Novel Jack the Ripper was the Joker.

Angel Jackson
Angel Jackson

Jack the Ripper was the Joker.
Aaand my interest is gone. If you're gonna plug Batman, at least plug better villains. I am sick and tired of seeing The Joker in every fucking DC animated movie.

Tyler Evans
Tyler Evans

The other day a friend of mine was bitching that Affleck's Batman wasn't 'detective-y' enough. Of all his complaints, that's the one he came up with. I told him Batman isn't really a detective, and he told me how he was advertised back in the day as being 'the world's best detective.'

Given the guy clearly doesn't really read comics considering that Batman's not been like that for a long time, but it did get me thinking about how far he's come. I think he's just completely incompatible with mystery at this point, honestly. Some one-shots and stuff is fine, but overall Batman and all the lore and stuff they've built up is just… It doesn't work.

Christian Adams
Christian Adams

You remember wrong, in the graphic novel Jack the Ripper was Bruce's uncle. Joker wasn't even present in the story in any form.

Brody Cook
Brody Cook

Batfleck had plenty wrong with him but yeah, not being a detective isn't a particularly strong point to make. The "World's Best Detective" moniker to Batman is what "The Last Son of Krypton" moniker is to Superman, neither of them hold true anymore.

Noah White
Noah White

At least as recently as the early-to-mid-90s Batman did a fair amount of detecting in his comics. Investigating crime scenes, analyzing evidence and crime patterns in the Batcave, interviewing/interrogating people for information…

Cameron Torres
Cameron Torres

take a comic whose best feature is the Mike Mignola art style that helps to enhance the Victorian setting
give it the same watered down Bruce Timm art style all the other DCAU movies
Goddamnit it's already bad enough that virtually all comic book movies these days look the exact same, but now the cartoons ?
Fuck that shit

Call me when they have a The Doom That Came to Gotham adaptation that looks like this
youtube.com/watch?v=XbsDvGtTRWU

Carter Richardson
Carter Richardson

You're right. The closest thing to the Joker was a cameo in the beginning where Gordon mentions a widower killing all the women he married and then trying to kill himself with strychnine only to give himself a permanent grin.

Jackson Thompson
Jackson Thompson

Aamzing Screw on Head
That would've been an awesome series.

Kevin Torres
Kevin Torres

Bruce Timm art style
You've clearly never seen Bruce Timm's art

Josiah Cooper
Josiah Cooper

How do we bring that back?

Mason Young
Mason Young

The pilot was neat, but I feel like they'd have run out of ideas pretty quickly.

Jason Robinson
Jason Robinson

Some of the cartoons like Batman: The Animated Series and Beware the Batman do attempt to put more detective scenes, but even those rely on shortcuts here and there.
Both used the lazy CSI Miami zooming the camera detective work. The thing is BtB wanted to hammer in the whole detective angle by having Batman talk a lot. My problem was the whole using Soultaker sword as bait plan was retarded and incredibly immoral. It is just because the BtB keeps telling us that Batman is really smart.

Dominic Wood
Dominic Wood

We don't.

Jose Thompson
Jose Thompson

Beware the Batman had a really bad habit of trying to make Batman seem smart by either having him pull deductions out of his ass that he should not be able to make without going through a whole series of logical steps first or else defeating their goal by having Batman come up with really retarded plans that they pretended were actually brilliant.

Cameron Miller
Cameron Miller

In eternal it took him almost 50 issues to released gordon from prison

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