Nioh rats BTFO. Tecmo is dumping the game after survey

After the survey results They're going to.
They made a good game and ruined by listening to players.
archive.is/2Sle9#selection-1537.0-1541.41

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=HPmUPfN33a8
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

We'll see I guess. Who knows, maybe some of the tweaks will make the game better?

Fucking casuals and betajournos man. Im still buying it.

It was pretty shit to begin with.
Now it goes full LOTF.

eh, I'll agree with some of those changes, the durability stat was kind of wonky mainly because the game threw so many whetstones/glues at you after the initial segment that it became worthless.

So real question is, why are you so mad that something was good?

Honestly most of those could mean more balance to the hard side. Things like tips for a boss don't casualise the game, because the internet already does so for walkthroughs.

I don't think that they will make the game "easy", "hardcore" games are selling well at the moment and japanese dev's are at the forefront of the market.

Ironic, overall the worst feedback they got was from asia, however, there's no breakdown on what the asian market didn't like about it.

This was exactly the point of this Alpha, are you retarded?

Underagefags are so used to Alphas and Betas being demos they get confused when they see real ones.

Two more things to add.

1. Remember jap dev's don't trust western journo's at all, biased emperor famously chewed out kotaku for calling out Jap standards and then later on for Zoe Quinn shit.

2. Make sure that a culture of listening to an audience doesn't change completely. Ironically game culture used to call out dev's who didn't listen to their audience and now the same culture is bagging dev's for doing so.

It would be wise to not make an unwinnable situation for game devs. And it starts with not making threads that start with "They made a good game and ruined by listening to players."

Agree with this one.

Now this is absolute shit.
Now this is casualizing it.
You mean easier.

Tecmo, why?

This one was forcing players to get gud and the enemies were getting tired too just like the player which made the game fun. The change could fuck the game since the weapons, skills and stances are based on this and now they're changing it because of shitty players.

didn't ninja gaiden get harder when playtesters said it was too hard

op stop being a faggot


only worth while thing mentioning is that on the survey results website, Asia is extremely fucking casual and really hates the difficulty

well they could change it to slightly less time when out of stamina or change it so that if you hit 0 you'll do it as opposed to your next attack on 0 Ki.
That wouldn't screw the balance that bad.


I don't recall ever running out of durability you should be replacing your weapons often enough at the start and then you get billions of glue/whetstones hurled at you.
I see nothing wrong with removing durability

Stamina management was a big part of getting around the map, yeah.


Weapons deteriorated way too fast. I don't think they should remove weapon deterioration, just adjust it a tweak so you don't have to either switch between weapons all the time or hoard weapon repair items.

I had the exact opposite experience. the only time I had a weapon shout it's warning "I'm degrading" message while I was out of whetstones was when I was trying to get a non horrible connection in phantom mode for Nue

Itagaki isn't on the company anymore faggot.

There are item like holy water to increase stamina and the balance was just fine. Making it easier will break the game. They shouldn't remove weapons durability and should've made white stones much harder to get to force players to change weapons and we don't know if upcoming maps are much harder.

But all that would do is force you to carry slightly different weapons around and just break out the good ones for bosses.
It wouldn't really change much with how the current equipment system.
Whetstones get harder to find? well thank god I'm tripping over near equivalent weapons every 12 odd enemies

Honestly I found the opening area back in the demo extremely grueling my first shot at it. But that was just because Nioh enforces its own kind of play style and systems I was just figuring out on my own. I think maybe making it a slight and tiny bit easier is an okay idea. Give players who might and most likely will be used to ds mechanics a short time to adjust.
Otherwise wise lets be honest its at least removing item durability is less casual than entirely removing mid rolls from ds3. And I will agree with you directing people straight to boss areas is bad, but I think they'll handle it as a suggestion rather than a full blow definite choice.

uhh why?

I know why

Why? The amount of drops you get is insane. If the armour doesn't degrade you'll be walking around with 50 of the same item for no good reason. I can see a reduction in the rate that equipment deteriorates because it was really fast but removing it is completely unnecessary.

I just want it to get rid of diablo style loot. It's annoying as fuck to sift through a million armor pieces.

Rather than having a million different weapons with different levels they should make a few but with diverse movesets.

Asia confirmed casual scum bringing down the quality of video games.

Good, the important part is participation and experiencing the content. Not restricting finishing to the elitist losers.

How did the West look?

Has any game ever managed to do durability right? If so, I haven't played it. It either kills the fun or is just a mildly annoying chore, but never a challenge that adds to the game.

Swordcraft Story pulled it off well because you can humiliate a boss by breaking his weapons.

Nothing to see here.

...

At least user plays video games. What are you doing besides being a grumpy fuck?

It's fun to get many drops that some of them are rare also you can offer them so you need many drops.

You get lots of drop so you can offer them.

playing shadow warrior, hard reset and emulating psp wipeout

We have gotten gud.

Yeah man playing games on HARDCORE DEATH MODE sure is fun. I love having the same exact same enemies but just with 1000x more health!

John Walker on suicide watch.

The problem is that games make durability strictly point based instead of "save" based. Look how pen and paper RPGs do it. If you're attacking a normal creature with a sword you don't have to worry about durability but if you do something like try to use the sword as a pry bar or try to bash open a stone door or attack something with an abnormally hard capapace. If you do you have to roll to save and if you fail only then the weapon takes the appropriate amount of damage.
Why games don't use this system I'll never know.

I'll enjoy buying this second-hand, so as to let the devs know that I don't buy games like this on console.

Having to pick between graphical fidelity and frame-rate? Fuck off.

Where does it mention anything about graphics or framerate?

It was pretty fun in the demo, it was like playing ninja gaiden
but ninja gaiden isn't a household name
dank souls is

In the actual fucking demo.

They're settings, you dink

even the rare drops were boring as fuck.
Make them truly unique and I don't mind.

meant to reply to

Valkyrie Profile sorta did that, breakable weapons didn't have limited durability, just a small chance of breaking on every use. The result was that unless you already knew exactly where and when you needed to use that breakable sword that was extra good against dragons or whatever, you just never ever used them. I sure didn't.

Personally, I'd take set durability over random breakage as the lesser of two evils no question. I'd much rather know I can use the item X amount of times as opposed to having no idea if it'll break next time or in a hundred uses.

With that said though, I think the best use of durability is as a challenge to overcome. By which I mean that one way or another, the goal is to eventually get hyper durable equipment that's either unbreakable or lasts an extremely long time. I don't know why games with durability never do that though. I think it'd be a great solution for how if the game is long enough, I always get sick of repairing stuff well before anything else. Plus, a lot of games end up with nothing to do with money late-game. In that case, making durability upgrading really expensive would kill two birds with one stone.

Well there goes my potential collector's preorder.

Watching pensively still, but I have to wonder why the fuck they do this garbage and then publicly announce it as if its a good thing, especially after such a vocal and positive public reception.

Its like they want less sales. What the fuck Tecmo?

Yes, and if I was playing on PC I'd be able to have both.

summer has started already

All companies should do what Itagaki does when a tester tells him their game is too hard. Make it harder.

Maybe corporate told them to make the game easier and the team released the results like this so that players would cause a backlash against it?

its cause they went full angry birds over a decade ago.

they're casual(ty) is what makes games get dumbed down hard

Well, they have no effect over western games yet they're piss easy. This is gaming wide problem. I saw many dumb western youtubers about how the game is hard and should be dumped down especially dark souls fags. Like this nigger.

It's funny when you think about it.
I guess that explains how one can be both proud of his heritage and hate himself at the same time.

They need to two simple things:
1. Make it more Ninja Gaiden knock-off, less Souls knock-off
2. Make it hard.
2. Make it so you actually have to fight more than one enemy, again like Ninja Gaiden, instead of the stupid Souls mechanics, where you can just infinitely kite guys away from their pack and then poke them to death.
4. Actually, just make Ninja Gaiden.

Forget it, it's fucking dead on arrival. I just wanted a new Ninja Gaiden. A good one this time.

its because japan's populace (besides the old people) is a bunch of wageslaves and students who never stop studying. america has a similar problem, although not as bad yet. people have 0 time and its only getting worse so people play shitty mobile games, during their commute or at work.

...

I know this is a troll, but come on.

This is very generic, could mean anything.


This is a bad change, the current punishment for running out of Ki was good and made combat more tactical and players focus more on Ki management.


Ok sure, convenience is always welcome.


Like the first point, it could mean anything, from total nerfing to slight adjustments.


If it's how long they pursuit you, then yeah, it was a bit ridicolus, could use some tweaking.


Tweaking on this is always welcome but in the test it seemed pretty fair, they would only get a lot of hyperarmor during certain attacks, very telegraphed attacks usually, i don't think this was all that necessary, they sorta nailed it the first time, definitely WAY more than From with the poise/hyperarmor mess on enemies that is DaS3, that's for sure.


Again, this could mean anything.
They were extremely strong and smart in the beta but i liked them like that, we'll see.


Good.


That's fine i guess, they were pretty obvious already, doesn't really impact the game much.


Didn't have much of a problem with this, but whatever.


This is a HUGE change, it changes THE ENTIRE GAMEPLAY STRUCTURE AND PACING, the entire thread should be nothing but discussion about this single change, it's fucking huge.
This changes the game completely, i have no idea how it's gonna play now, and most importantly this brings us to the next change:


Since equipment doesn't have durability anymore, than that COMPLETELY CHANGES how loot works in this game.
If there's no durability but you have 500000000000 million drops like in the beta, then you can just sells anything you're not using.
It's a massive change, this could very well destroy the game, or instead make it more fun, it completely depends on how they overhaul the loot system to accomodate the removal of durability from gear.

Underrated post.

Way of the Samurai 1-3 durability is a "heat" gauge that stops spam faggotry

Swordcraft Story essentially made it an extra health bar the refill between battles.

If they're going to do something this major I'd like to see an updated demo since this means the experience we all had is going to be different fron the real game.

Will whetstones and glue even exist in the full game?

Here you go fam, sorry for delay was watching the NASA speedruns.
West is pretty happy with Nior overall.
Appears that the main issue people had was with the UI.

We're not gonna have a second "beta", i think.
But perhaps we will have a small proper demo before the game itself is released, there's actually still a lot of time before the releae proper, this was the perfect moment to make a change this drastic.

Look i'm not gonna say that this was a good, or a bad change, i don't know, it depends entirely on how they rebalance the entire game around this change.
However, it was smart to change this NOW, instead of later, if you have to change such a core gameplay component is better to do it now when you're still essentially building the meat of the game instead of 1 month before release when you're rushing the fuck out of everything else and there's no time and you end up doing a botch job (may i bring up again DaS3 horrifically fucked up poise/hyperarmor system).


Everyone, even on Holla Forums, agreed that the UI needed a massive overhaul to make everything easier to access, faster and more convenient.
It's the one thing i made extra sure to point out in my survey report, seems like many other people did as well.

Either we have finally surpassed the Japs or the rest of Asia is dragging Glorious Nippon down.


One possible thing that could save the durability issue would be if they implement durability as a buff/debuff, i.e. your armor gets a "broken" debuff or your sword gets a "dull" debuff that can only be removed with the consumables.

One thing I did notice from the demo was a referenced to "tainted" equipment (or something like that) that would be dropped on death along with you amirita.

...

This has been going on for quite a while now.
Jap devs are good (usually) compared to western developers but Jap players are fucking shit now on average compared to westerners.
Sort of a funny situation if you think about it, they're mismatched.

I blame the surge of esports & mobile gaming over there.

Do Australia and New Zealand come under Europe or Asia? Is Asia even more casual than it appears due to whitey holding them up a few points?

Probably, but I wouldn't say Australia and New Zealand can ever possibly account for >10% difference.

I'd be curious to see the numbers on how many players got the Mark of the Conqueror from various regions.

durability is a shit meme and every game ever made would be better without it. what is the point in going to a vendor and spending money clicking things in your inventory to make them usable? it's a boring time waster that only belongs in hard RPGs (not arpgs).

Games that pretend to be "hard" to massage the player's ego are very popular right now, huh?

Well, let's see.
Sounds like marketingspeak, unspecific and could mean a lot of things, though I liked the "fuck you" effect the first outlaw you met had.

From what I gleaned, getting exhausted was triggered from overexerting yourself, which apparently also included merely moving around after having a flashing red bar.
I'd very much like to hear specifics on that, because KI management was a very engaging and crucial part of combo building.

Perfect, wonderful, excellent, 4 slots were ridiculous and meant you had to set them up before every bigger engagement.

Charts, please.

I hope that doesn't mean they stop after 30 metres, their merciless pursuit meant you had to keep your wits about you at all times.

Needs more context. Stagger was given to you in rather conservative amounts, though those unstoppable Bandit Warlord axe swings were annoying.
Made me git gud at parrying and low-stance spear combat though.

Revenants had the tendency to go full vegetable and were largely oblivious to environmental hazards. I hope they are referring to that.

Harbour village was interconnected enough, Temple's first part was a bit too long in my opinion. I wish they would give examples.

That's just stupid. Minimap and level design were obvious enough, I hope they give you the option to disable that stuff manually.

Retarded, as well. If you repeatedly die to the fires in the village you've got to have some kind of brain damage.
My guess is that they wanted to stop players from abusing AI path-finding.

Alright. Durability was pretty much only another way to punish bad players by not progressing and engaging situations with a bad stance/weapon combo.
A capable player would never run into those issues in the first place, so the durability thing was merely a minor annoyance.
I hope that doesn't mean I don't get to be atari while offering trash loot any more.

The games throws stuff at you like crazy. I liked the typical ARPG-specific endorphin rush you get after slaying a big adversary and the loot just starts gushing from its corpse, but if they tone down droprate from normal enemies, so that some brawny lowlife doesn't drop three different items anymore, I'm okay with it.


Leave the knife for once, Holla Forums. No wonder nobody likes to party with you.

yeah, man, it's like almost all of modern Japan actually aren't video-game obsessed NEETs, and only bother with mobile games to relieve stress because of their shitty jobs that would make an underpaid McDonald's employee cry after a week.
crazy, huh?

You fucks should know exactly what this means, it went through the "I got stuck in a loop halflife 2 tester" and the "I got stuck because the guard told me I couldnt go upstairs".

LGTSS

Way of the Samurai is the only one with a not-shit durability system because it was designed to play into the core of each fight as opposed to just being a long term number you have to refill every now and then.

When you break it down, WotS Sword Heat was basically like it's own stamina system (in reverse) in lieu of not having a more straightforward stamina variable. Too many attacks or too much blocking in a short amount of time will put too much tension on the sword and it will crack it. Each crack reduces the size of the bar, making it easier to chip even further until the sword eventually snaps off.

It's a travesty that WOTS4 got rid of it.

Given that it already has Stamina/Ki, It's for the best that Nioh just drops the Durability variable and lowers the drop rate of gear to make finding something good more rewarding.

Muramasa has a similar system.

Yeah the revenants were kind of dumb.

All I want them to do is make the subtitles and menu fonts bigger. It's too goddamn small. I can't read shit.

I actually really liked Monster Hunter's way of doing it. the idea of sharpening your weapon before battle, and bouncing that sword off a thick hide or the rock-hard scales of your target dulling the blade, actually makes a lot of sense to me. even though now that I think about it that has nothing to do with durability

I think how durability worked in the alpha needs to be explained at this point, to make people understand why some are pissed off right now:

In the alpha, all your equipment had durability.
Your stuff didn't repair when you sit at a shrine, but only when using whetstones and glue, consumable materials, dropped by enemies.

However, the game showered you with new equipment at every corner, and you could sell any equipment to get, if you were lucky, a whetstone or some glue.

So that meant that the progression system, while unusual, had it's own pacing going on that made you scavenge for new eqipment all the time.

Instead of using a specific piece of armor or weapon like in a souls game, here you would focus on TYPES, a certain TYPE of weapon and a certain CLASS of armor, so moving fowards if you liked katanas you'd get the next katana, and if you liked normal weight class armor, you'd focus on slapping onto yourself the next piece of that class of armor.

Was it polished?
No.
Was it clunky?
Yes.
However it was a different system than the one souls games use, and it had it's own thing going on that, with some polish and balancing, could've worked to give the player a constant sense of progression.

To remove durability, is to undermine this entire structure, and something else will have to take it's place, and if that something is closer to the system souls games use, then it's a shame because it robs Ni-oh of an unique element, something that the game desperately needs to set himself aside from the competition.

Not only that, but turtling wasn't very viable in the alpha specifically because your weapon would break down if you blocked all day, so they'll have to balance something against block heavy players too now using some other solution.

spearfag here, I distinctly remember one of the unlockable attacks being a guard-breaker that I literally never used because you never really got the chance

...

Rip

He's not doing too well on his own. Team Ninja and Itagaki need each other.

ITT: sonyggers in denial

I had a hell of a rough time getting through the alpha, but it was a trial by fire that I can't say I'll forget for a long time.

I think the game could benefit from a tutorial though. I didn't even know about parrying until after I beat the first boss.

How many exclusives does it take for mustards to get over the butthurt?

It's a new thing and people just need to adapt to new things.

When DeS came out people didn't know how to iframe, iframing was considered skilled as fuck.
Everyone shielded, didn't know how to manage stamina, everyone would die all the time and some people couldn't even get past 1-1.

Ni-oh is the same, it needs the players to adapt to it's systems, not the other way around.

Nice

...

You know exactly what he was saying, he was talking about this game but you just had to be a nigger and turn it into a sweeping generalization

...

Lol, what did they expect? Consoleshits think that locking on and strafing is the height of difficulty

Maybe if you're a casual faggot who never heard of Monster Hunter.

DeS came out in 2009, MH Tri came out in NA and EU in 2010.

So yes, most people weren't familiar yet, while it obviously already had a fanbase, it was nowhere near as big and common everywhere as it would become shortly later on.

There's such a thing as historical context.

Because they threw this guy into the trash.

I knew I would regret it if i missed the demo….and I did

Nigger Monster Hunter has been around for literally over a decade.

There's MH games before Freedom Unite 2?

The impact Tri had in terms of popularity and subsequent titles made MH explode in the west afterwards, comparatively speaking.
You can ask in any MH threads right now and they'll confirm this.
Sometimes i think people here need reading glasses.

And I think you're talking out your ass. My own first experience with it was the PSP version that came out in 2006 or 2007, and I know a tremendous number of people who are in the same boat. There were nonstop threads for like four years about that game anywhere you looked

Just because Tri brought in a lot of new players, and I'm not arguing that, saying that Tri was the first time people took note of Monster Hunter is both disingenuous and kinda retarded

The elite jap meme (and it is a meme) is from the era when gaming was domestically a niche pasttime but a point of national pride, and globally a siphon for fat american bucks into their country. Japanese gamers were a small group of adults, americans were a huge group of children getting their boxed victories as christmas presents.

Now gamers are manchildren and hipsters all around because those groups now play video games instead of watching sitcoms on the TV. All normal rules of market group size apply, and jap is so much smaller.

If it's optional and doesn't bother skilled players then I see no harm in allowing a hint system to be put in place.

Durability is a shit mechanic in almost every game it's implemented in.

Taking it out of Fire Emblem certainly didn't improve it.

Shamefur dispray from Tecmo

Vancouver's Vahalla?

do you mind listing some true PS4 exclusives, sonygger?
I need a reason to buy a PS4

This entire thread is the result of Dark Souls' PC release and cancerous marketing.

And millenial culture.

I feel like I have this problem a lot lately in games. I can rarely play modern console games now because text always looks so small on my tv. I wonder if my eyesight is just going to shit.

How the tides have turned!

Its either too hard for them or too easy for them it.

Due to the ambiguity of the changes, they might not necessarily mean the game is going to be casualized. But given history and the boss hints change, I'm not hopeful.
God dammit.

How many of those are Russian and Chinese?

It's always the baka that speaks truth in the forest.

skewed by niche audience target in west.
but still
WE GAT GOOD

I remember a GBA game (Swordcraft Story 2 I think) that gave you a bigger incentive for doing it that breaking their weapons gives you materials to craft their weapons for yourself, plus a drill weapon-type focused around charge-attacks and doing high durability damage to make it easier

pick one, retard

any footage of a better nioh player? this guy is trash

MAKE IT STOP.
DARK SOULS WAS A MISTAKE

Reminder that people here pre ordered and hyped Dark Souls 3.
Reminder that the community was never good.
Reminder that AC fans are comfy guys and hate Soulfags

Ace Combat fans?

I really hope you're not talking about assassin's creed

Kind of unnecessary but alright. Really, just toss us better starter equipment and we're good. The mariner's set that you start out with has 0 defense. As soon as you get the bandit armor beside the axe wielder by the water, each hit becomes a tickle.

This is bull and I don't understand why people kept complaining about this. It's like they never learned to ki pulse. Which was actually the case for a few of them.

If it means making it easier to access at least one item without having to let go of the analog stick, this is okay.

Bull. It was fine and once you get a few levels, you become way too overpowered.

This is good. They follow you everywhere and the only safe space is a shrine.

Potentially bull. It was fine as it was.

Potentially bull. Revenants were easy if you had the slightest idea on how to duel.

As long as there aren't too many shortcuts, this is fine. More exploration elements is usually a plus. I liked how we could go down a cliff to get to the house and avoid the ambush for example.

Bull. Absolute bull.

No idea. I avoided fire as much as possible.

Complete bull. Equipment dropped at a crazy rate that you can easily use throwaway equipment to save your good stuff for actual danger.

No idea. They dropped so often that I got tired of managing them after a while. Maybe since durability is gone now, they'll make the drop rates rarer.

youtube.com/watch?v=HPmUPfN33a8

Monster Hunter sorta does that. It still has the point based thing, but given that every enemy you fight is generally something with scales, bones, or other such defenses, it kinda makes sense. And if you hit a particularly durable spot, ie. a monster's club-like tail, or horn, it will often bounce off and take a ton of durability damage.

They also made sharpness a measurable and upgradable mechanic, with some weapons having very high damage but require pinpoint accuracy to a targets weak spots in order to do proper damage, or lower damage weapons that are razor sharp allowing you to high wherever you want and thus control the flow of battle more.

this is pretty frustrating because i really enjoyed the demo and mostly just wanted the menus to be cleaned up

now i have no clue what this game is going to deliver

Nah, my guy, he means Assassin's Creed. Little known fact, From Software developed the first Assassin's Creed game, but Ubisoft won the code (along with the dev kit used in the making of the game, it's not as if they planned on making different games.) in a legal battle given that From's contract with their internationally hired devs had a clause that allowed them to give over their code to inferior publishers without credit if the employee was certifiably French.

:^)

Color me surprise

it used to god damn be, it was the "oh god this game is so hard because it actually pushes back at the player" of its time

Ill wait till its out before passing judgement.

Source?

if we learned anything from recent years, player feedback is one of the worst thing devs can get these days, just as bad as focus groups

So basically Dark Souls is the Ninja Gaiden of RPGs

I can agree on that but I'm still gonna wait.

Hopefully we can still talk about this game when it comes out.

If it's changed for the worse I will personally slaughter every other Jap PS4 owner.

Ninja gaiden for the xbox was, ninja gaiden 2 was already casualized. Didnt bother with 3 because it looked absolutely horrid