I've got one big complaint about Dwarf fortress and it's not the (lack of) GUI...

I've got one big complaint about Dwarf fortress and it's not the (lack of) GUI, and I think it is the reason dwarf fortress isn't more popular (which on the whole might even be a good thing but hear me out anyway).

the game has too many variables of degradation.

I know this is often seen as heresy, but let's compare DF to minecraft.
in minecraft, there are two ways in which your game can "degrade"; that is, stuff that needs your constant attention; those are food, and enemies.
first, every once in a while you have to eat something to not starve, acquiring food is really simple and this task can be trivialized almost as soon as you start.
second, there's the enemies; enemies can spawn anywhere, even if the area has been explored and closed off, so unless you light every area you want to be "safe" you'll have to deal with enemies constantly, however, in the end, this too can be made a non-issue.

back to dwarf fortress, degradation permeates almost every single feature, from dwarf depression, through vampirism, hygiene, constant sieges, 2cat, etc. and only a few of these can be trivialized or made non-issues.
whenever you're not doing anything, you're slowly getting closer to doom.
this, for most people, clashes with the creative aspects of the game, which should be the focus (at least in my opinion, unless you thing spreadsheet simulators are fun).

opinions?

Dwarf Fortress is an unfinished piece of shit played exclusively by tryhard autists with too vivid imagination.

Still, your complaint sounds faggy as fuck.

No, literally the only thing wrong with DF is the clusterfuck that is the UI to do anything.

If it had that fixed it would possibly be the perfect game.

The fanbase doesn't want that fixed because it's a barrier that keeps the game from getting too popular and they like their sekrit club circlejerk.

Wich is fine, that's just how things are i suppose.

I don't think that this is the thing that is bad.
The GUI and the graphics usually turn off most people.
If you're not a retarded faggot you can easily take care of everything.
Depression?
Nice dinnerhall
Hygiene?
Put a 2x2 pool at the entrance of your fort.
2cat?
Don't be a fucking retard.
Most of those can be trivialized and made non-issues.
vampirism is fucking gay tho

No, the graphics are fine.
You see the fanbase is retarded because they think the GUI is keeping casuals out, but what really would keep the unwanted elements out is keeping the ASCII graphics forever.
That's the real barrier that would keep all the people that are loud and superficial out, they would never be able to adjust to it regardless of how well the game played.

Forgot to add.
Sieges can be reduced to rubble using 2 squads of danger-room soldiers.
Or you can wall yourself in and get trees from the caves.
The only thing that is a problem and will forever be a problem is candy spires and clowns, but if you get that it's your fault.

For one thing, the game is about two thirds of the way of a thirty year alpha. We're literally years away from the beta. For another, not everything about a game should BE a non-issue, otherwise what's the point of having the features in the first place?

Again, there are features that NEED to be changed, but they probably will sometime down the line. The biggest flaws are in relation to the UI and the ability to control your environment and Dwarfs.


Vampires do suck, literally. The problem mostly has to do with the fact that they're nothing but a random hindrance- if there were more ways for the player to deal with it or channel it towards productive ends, then vampires would be fine.

I have no idea what you're talking about OP. If anything DF is too easy. I'm crap at the game and i can still keep all my dwarves happy enough, I rarely get vampires (hint: it's always the fucking mayor), hygiene is never a problem just make some soap, if you don't want sieges then don't get rich and if you can't help it then just turtle like a good wuss, and butcher the cats.

Basically just play the damn game.

Figure out who the vampire is.

Make them the bookkeeper.

Set them to keep all counts accurate.

Wall them in their office.

Immortal always-accurate bookkeeper, and theoretically-invincible fortress, for as long as one dwarf remains, migrants can come.

While you're right about using it as a bookkeeper, that kind of thing always rubs me the wrong way- it feels too cheesy for my tastes. Bookkeepers having to constantly update the books will probably be added later on.

it provides alternate modes of play that a player can opt in, in the same way a player can choose to go to a bonus dungeon and have an easier time later on, a player should, say, be able to choose whether to put effort into giving dwarves happy thoughts and have an easier time or not and have a harder time, but both paths should be equally fun and somewhat similarly viable.

You idiot.
Minecraft is a construction and survival game with no real objective.

Dwarf Fortress is a city builder who's objective is 'don't lose'.

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There are multiple ways to build a fortress, though. You can build an aboveground fortress with soap bars and survive reasonably well provided it's not an evil biome. For the most part, the game is actually pretty easy if you're willing to engage the cheese.

Hell, the only risks you take are voluntary- just seal off the interests and live off of plump helmets for eternity. Sieges can't get through walls, yet.

That's one of the primary design tenants of the game, though. I'm sure you've seen "Losing is Fun". Without the rapid degradation it's not the same game anymore.

If you really think it's the gameplay and not the interface putting people off then you're either blind or retarded.

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I make hallways two wide- one space for each dwarf.

it's not about difficulty you insecure dweeb, it's about clashing game mechanics and the viability of multiple modes of play, see below.

compare this to stealth games, in good stealth games like thief and MGS, playing well at the main game (sneaking by everyone without being detected) is fun, but getting caught and having to fight for your life is also fun.
when being caught in a stealth game results in a boring combat encounter with terrible mechanics or no chance of victory we say the game is badly designed.

That sounds like retarded "everyone is a winner" philosophy. Games can have multiple ways to play but they are not obligated to hand you fun for being bad. If you fall in a pit in a platformer, the game should not put you on the platform you missed and give you a pat on the back while saying "Nice try."

This community is cancer.
Losing is not fun.
Building a long lasting and influential fort is.
Getting the monarchy and becoming the capital is.
Megaprojects are fun.
Losing is not and will never be fun.
mainly due to the fact that when you lose you also lose a large amount of time

it's not "everyone is a winner", take sonic advance 2 for example, most maps consist of multiple levels, and if you miss a jump on a higher level, you end up on a lower one, however you can still lose if you fall from the lower one, and it is more rewarding to finish the game from a high level than a low one.

But it is. Usually, the process of losing is more fun than the normal operation of the fortress.

That I have to agree with. Most megaprojects are aesthetically pleasing and don't really serve a purpose. Some are neat and show a mastery of the game, but most could be done just as easily with geometric shapes and a tablet.

"Losing is fun" was coined to encourage people to not get frustrated when just starting the game and, well, losing a lot due to still learning the basics of keeping dorfs alive. Don't sweat the small stuff, etc.

But some people do enjoy building a huge sandcastle just to knock it down. That is the essence of a sandbox, after all, isn't it?

It's about learning from your mistakes. Aren't those things you mentioned more rewarding when they're harder to accomplish? Why don't you just make a mod to stabilize it to your taste?

I don't know about you but I would feel just as accomplished in my daily life if some of the more boring aspects of it were to be taken away, like taxes.

That would ruin half the fun of the game though.
Sure, megaprojects are neat, but what's the point of building a giant, dick-shaped lava cannon if nobody's going to fire the thing in a fit of psychotic rage toward the countryside?
Did you never once go to the beach and build a sand castle at low tide, then laughed as it was washed away by the tide coming in?
Because if you didn't you're a fucking faggot.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be opposition, I'm saying that managing the consequences instead of the root cause of the player's problems should at least be somewhat fun and engaging.

Whats the deal with vampirism? Back when I played DF I dont remember encountering anything like that.

Aren't there mods to change that? There should be.

if there are, I would absolutely like to know

Sometimes you get immigrants that are secretly vampires. They'll randomly kill dwarves and drink their blood but they're stealthy and hard to catch, and also immortal and powerful and can't be drowned, and have shit-tons of skills from their long lives including combat skills and social skills that usually end up making them the mayor.

speaking of gui, rimworld got it down pat.

i'll keep the df ascii, just gimme that dank gui

is this some DF mod or something else entirely?

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Its a game inspired by DF, its in a science fiction setting