Brazil/Latin America general

Well you could start with Venezuela not being socialist

how would you describe the venezuelan gov't?

a mixed economy run by someone with a tenuous grasp on economics, private industry has still been dominant over socialized and nationalized industry for the majority of chavez's rule, it's not really socialist

on top of this while chavez's policies exacerbated the situation the 2008 financial crisis really hurt venezuela due to falling oil prices (of course again, chavez exacerbated this by increasing venezuelan dependence on oil exports and introducing measures afterward that resulted in shortages and inflation)

more socialist than burgerland tho. how can we justify why burgerland is rich and venezuela is not. political hegemony? imperialism?

Look at its population. It's hopeless.

It depends what you mean by "more socialist". The vast majority of workers in Venezuela do not and have not owned the means of production. Also just comparing Venezuela and America ignores the specifics that lead to Venezuela's situation, two major issues being Chavez's poor policies and Venezuela's over reliance on oil exports.

In any case Norway is a social democracy with more nationalized industry than the USA, unions and collective bargaining are more prevalent than in the USA, income taxes are higher, and Norway also has a higher GDP per capita and less poverty issues.

Granted social democracy isn't really socialism, but it's what the average con's idea of socialism is.

seems that there's a better argument for why latin american socialist countries fail than "brown people are stupid". i don't doubt that lack of education plays a factor, but boy does uncle sam like to meddle.

brazil is going to be free and you leftists are going to be killed ;^)

So you're saying that the jeitinho and malandro lifestyle that is valued by the culture is screwing the country over in all aspects?

you're fucking retarded fam

I will just leave these here…

Chile is currently going kinda lefty, they're shitting on everything private right now.

You negroes in favor of reunification? Here's how I would do it-
What I have doubts on is Mexico, Central America and the Andean regions (plus Argentina). Unifying Central America and the Andes but not Mexico seems kind of arbitrary. Can someone who lives in one of these regions tell me if they're very culturally different or whatever? Another factor is the climate- Mexico's is very different from Central America's, but Central America's is similar to South America's.

...

I'd say unify specific areas first (restore the USCA, bring together the South Andean peoples, bring Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chile together etc) in order for a larger South American Union to happen. The drive is there, the people in the Andes want cooperation as far as I know

Urgayan with no clue of urgayan politics here, what do you think of the goverment of this country?

Pepe was a really cool guy and i don`t really know much else but you guys are small enough to do some interesting experiments like legalizing weed.

you're retarded

...

That's exactly what I was proposing.

Ah, sorry. I thought you were proposing to unify South America as it is now, then divide the continent into administrative regions lebensraum style.

I think a Latin American Union would be EU-style and not state-style, even in the long run. Too politically different. The regions I suggested could be states or smaller unions, but they should really be states.

ＮＯＲＤＩＣ ＭＯＤＥＬ

Brasil was better under the Integralists

Brazil is one of the largest countries in the world, full of natural resources, probably even the richer in the question. It is also the country that could hold more influence in Latin America. So, what went wrong? Why isn't this country a super-potency? Well, everything went wrong, every chance we had to not fuck up we fucked up..

Here comes the self-hater…

Our elites did not leave us any choice besides underdevelopment, my dude.

i think that if venezuelans had to choose, they'd rather be raped by a new person than by a group that has been raping them for almost two decades

empujoncito
youtube.com/watch?v=BkhBDAsIkVE

...

Nordick here, the children who grow up in poverty aren't poor. Their parents are just bad with money, when these people are interviewed, their have bad material conditions becuase their parents are wasting their money on other stuff, useually drugs, sometimes fashionable clothes, gambling etc. I suspect that a neighboor I grew up besides would be classified as a poor household

I was surprised to find an anonymous board in spanish that wasn't full of alt right memers.

bienvenidoainternet.org/

It's pretty slow (200 posts/day on average) but I'll take what I can.

Es por qué es demasiado weeaboo además de ser tablón de texto.
Esta bueno pero no tienen nigun board donde me pueda acomodar.

...

Eso es lo raro, los weeaboos generalmente son fachas.

He's saying that they have a decent income, but they waste it on useless shit.

Are you blind?

...

Brazuco friends, is it true that ancaps are starting to pop up in Brazil?

The next generation that is coming will be super pro-capitalism because of PT's fuckups. When the pendulum swings..

jajajajjaa

larepublica.pe/politica/774275-cajamarca-detiene-universitaria-por-dibujar-la-hoz-y-el-martillo-en-cedula-de-sufragio

el-nacional.com/politica/Ex-ministro-Chavez-Maduro-chavismo_0_923907601.html

De este mes no pasa :^)

They already are. Horseshit like the Mises Institute are more popular here than anywhere else in the world.

This is truly our darkest hour

It's a complete disgrace considering how strong our Far-Left (Actual fucking commies, Anarchists and MLs alike) organizations once were, Che liberated the wrong fucking country and Khrushevite opportunists only cared about nukes.

Interesting, I've long had that impression but no actual figures, do you have a source?

Organize locally, Lolbergs (hopefully) won't defend Federal intervention against peaceful self-sufficient SocDem States, the people will fight back in time. Just don't let your town, family and friends be influenced by Coxinha thought coming out of São Paulo, Brazil is still a Federation, fight central government.

Well that is certainly worrying. I just hope they don't spill over to Argentina. Best of luck fighting those fags.

What's that supposed to mean?

google it faggit
**Coxinha=yuppie*

I googled and it came up with some sort of dish.

Bump

It's a dish and a slang for "rightist reactionary".

Dude, we can't even make Mercosur and Unasur work right. Here in Brazil we still haven't elected our Mercosur delegates.

I didn't expect this coming from a tankie. But yeah, I've been thinking recently how weak is the Brazilian ideal of nation state, starting with our "nation building historical events". Our independence was bought by a rebel prince to secure that his family would still have command over the country. Our Republic Proclamation was only achieved because the emperor lost support of the most reactionary sectors of society (the military, the church and the landowners) and we ended up with that semi-feudal period known as The Old Republic (which by the way still has effects in our current society). As much as I don't like to admit, the contemporary Brazil really started in 1930, with the Revolution of 30 and the Vargas Era, with a strongman which often flirted with fascism and chased down communists, but which the Brazilian Left supported because he instituted some sort of National Syndicalism and because the other alternative (UDN) was the fucking worst. Then we have the short-lived Populist Era, which was aborted by a ultra-reactionary military dictatorship, succeeded by a New Republic which now seems to be falling apart. All of our popular revolutions failed, even the liberal ones in the Empire era. For fucks sake, even our flag preserves the colors of the imperial family.

I think that the fact that the dictatorship only ended because the military fucked up the economy really bad, decided that they couldn't manage things anymore and kinda "gave up" (instead of for example, being overthrown by a popular revolution, like the Carnation Revolution in Portugal) has something to say about the moment we are living. Our transition to a liberal democracy was conceived to be as conservative as it could (we didn't even had direct elections to our constituent assembly and our first post-dictatorship president), which muh privileged MDB (the "opposition" that the dictatorship permitted) and their successors, PMDB and PSDB (the first which has been in all of the governments of the New Republic and has had three presidents since, none of which was directly elected by popular vote).

I don't know, being from a lesser state from the northeast, I always felt "left out" of any kind of "Brazilian national identity", which always seemed to muh privilege the center-south (especially São Paulo, Rio and Brasília), while being subjected to semi-feudal oligarchies. Back in the 90s, the PT represented a resistance against those oligarchies, only for them to sell out to these same oligarchies to gain support for federal elections. Which is kind of interesting, how "mainstream" political parties (AKA those who dispute presidential elections) base their discourse on national level issues, but forget completely legislative elections, enabling the legislative branch to be flooded by local and personal interests. This "focus on national issues" and a lesser regard for local issues also has impact in local elections, with the left often focusing too much in bigger cities (Rio, São Paulo) while in small towns they are "outsourcing" their candidatures to supportive oligarchs (PT, PDT) or just entirely forgetting them (PSOL). Rio has Freixo, Jandira Feghalli and Molon, São Paulo has Haddad and Erundina, here in my city we have nothing.

(cont.)

(cont.)
There is something fishy about the "anti-coup" movement. Where the fuck are the popular assemblies? As far as i remember, didn't we have a "parallel parliament" organized by PT during the FHC government? Even if I know we all need to work together to defeat the Temer government and the right-wing reaction, everything seems like just cheap discourse to reelect Lula in the next elections. Worst of all, PT is still in coalition with coupist parties in hundreds (maybe thousands) of municipalities for the next local elections. The Temer government seems weak, if you push he might just fall, why isn't the left REALLY organizing? Everyone seems to be just hoping that the revolution might fall from the skies (or not even this, everyone seems to be satisfied with just a petty electoral reform) or that a "great leader" appears from somewhere. Some seem to be even content with a "eternal position of resistance" idpol lifestyle. Also, everyone just seems to care about elections, WERE THE FUCK ARE THE ASSEMBLIES?

I'm curious about the recent reappearance of anarchists in Brazilian political landscape since June 2013, the last time I heard of Brazilian anarchists was about their participation in the General Strike of 1917. I think our left needs to learn a bit with them about horizontal organizing, local participatory politics and skepticism towards bourgeoisie elections, but just a bit. We still need some form of nation state and central organization, I've been thinking about Rojava lately.

I read something about how Irish socialists (especially Sinn Féin) did some sort of socialist reinterpretation of the history of Ireland, I wonder how something like that would work in Brazil. Palmares seems like a good start.

Brasília was an error

That's why I'm promoting merging culturally similar states first like this. Brazil is already unified, but the Pacific coast (save Mexico) and the Caribbean coast (and the islands therein) could unify.

Suriname can gb2 the Netherlands (the other Dutch ),and the Caribbean-bordering English-speaking territories can form their own union, which Puerto Rico can be an observing member of. The only thing I have no idea what to do with is Haiti, I know they have strong independence currents there and would not favor gb2ing France.

If you unify countries that already have a lot in common first it's less states for a Latin American Union to handle. If Haiti, Puerto Rico (for language/administrative reasons more than anything- a lot of Puerto Ricans like myself straight up don't understand technical language in Spanish because they always use the English words), and Mexico remain their own countries this would make it a union of 8 states max (three of them European), which is naturally going to work better than for example the EU which I think has something like 23 members or Mercosur/Unasur which have a similar amount. A good example is the Community of East Caribbean States, which also has about a half dozen members and is quite stable.

Armed struggle when

Organizing when.

Don't tell me y'all are content to just waiting for next elections and electing daddy Lula.

Speaking of elections and seeing current polls, second round will be probably Lula vs Marina Silva. Any hope for pushing a possible government of hers to the left or at least impose some progressive reforms?

lol

Top fucking kek
Those are the people who complain that "they're all corrupt"
tse.jus.br/institucional/escola-judiciaria-eleitoral/revistas-da-eje/artigos/revista-eletronica-eje-n.-4-ano-3/voto-nulo-e-novas-eleicoes
That shit isn't being counted you fucking idiots!
I swear to god, we have so many fucking parties and people are this big a bunch of downers.

Alternatively, you could always hope for a Duterte type leader who will try to clean the corruption in the government from top to bottom.

Recommend me some anti-capitalist reggaeton, /lat/

No es posible, el capitalismo es feka como la mayoría de los regetoneros.

atrevetetete salte del closet destapate quitate el esmalte

CALLE 13 NO ES REGUETÓN!1

Who?

FIRE IN PUERTO RICO, 1.5 MILLION WITHOUT POWER

I gotcha fan

Kinda late, mate

Coxinhas are delicious though

Alejandro Ordoñez, national prosecutor. He became infamous when his agenda to persecute opposition and protect crooks because too obvious for his own good.

wow lefty pol cant even come up with their own memes, and have to disingenuously define "muh not true socialism". toppest of keks

Name one original Holla Forums meme.

I know, a nation having to meet the criterion of the system they're proclaiming to be is a foreign concept to Holla Forumsyps.

...

Why is it that Brazilians don't have good protest songs?

...

Ron Paul, and it's actually from /new/.

tell me again about how ashkenazi jews aren't white, Holla Forums.

euronews.com/2016/09/22/no-referendum-until-2017-says-venezuelan-election-board

%%~DEMOCRACIA~%%

I disagree tbh

youtube.com/watch?v=CmC-o7Z_6OM

It has become somewhat cliche tbh. And it can't be sung in the top of your lungs in a protest, for example.

Apesar de Você works well for this.

youtube.com/watch?v=33-bMTOlvx0

nao.usem.xyz/93n0

Great, now we have our own version of COINTELPRO

youtube.com/watch?v=t60xR1hwOQM

Just leaving this video here. Sorry, it's only in Portuguese.

I've been using the internet since 2005, and venezuelan internet communities have always been 80-95% opposition, 20-5% chavista, even in 2006, where Chávez won with 62.84%.

Does this happen in other countries too?

Peru here. Most of the people in the internet are right wingers as well, and some have been exposed to Holla Forums propaganda about jews as well. The rest are free market nuts.

Yes. Porkies and their sympathizers, by and large, tend to have better access to PCs.

Also, I'd have to go to a really poor neighborhood to see any chavistas. It's like chavistas that are (in 2016, were) lower middle class and above never existed.

Wouldn't that be obvious? They were the most benefited by Chavez and above them, the ones that felt robbed from their rightful throne. If anything, I want Maduro to stay in power for as long as possible, just to spite those fuckers.

Si mamagüevo, que viva la revolución bolivariana, gracias al comandante eterno hay menos diferencia entre la clase media y la baja. De verdad ha beneficiado al pueblo venezolano.

Pajúo

I don't speak spanish. Translation?

He's insulting that guy and saying (with sarcasm) that it's a good thing that there's a smaller gap between the lower and middle class (obviously saying that everyone is now part of the lower class)

Por gente como tú es que el país está como está.

"this guy that had more money than me stole my girlfriend in the 80s, i'm glad that he's eating shit as much as me now, thanks maduro"

The middle class disappeared, now most people are poor but the rich are still rich. What an improvement.

The middle class is useless anyway

there isn't a single center-right party in venezuela holy shit lmao

the only "center-right" thing there is a small political movement

And, well, the old COPEI that everyone knows about, but they don't even have one seat in the national assembly. They were popular before, now they're dead.

noticiaaldia.com/2016/09/detenidas-387-personas-en-primer-dia-de-operativo-en-las-pulgas-contra-acaparamiento-y-especulacion/

RIP Las Pulgas

Hope that this doesn't make guavas cost more

venezuela only shows how socdems are backstabbers

Aren't the old right-wing parties grouped in MUD, together with a bunch of social democrats?

Convince me Primero Justicia and Voluntad Popular aren't Ciudadanos-style center-right

Only relevant parties (ones considered for the presidency) are Voluntad Popular (Leopoldo López), Primero Justicia (Henrique Capriles Radonski), and Acción Democrática (Henry Ramos Allup), though nobody would even have considered AD if Allup wasn't president of the national assembly.

empuxxonzito

ok

The only chavistas were:

a. Public workers that think that everything that they have exists because of Chávez. They got a paycheck thanks to Chávez, they could convert their bolivares to the massive amount of three hundred U.S. dollars on electronic purchases every year* thanks to El Comandante Supremo, and they obviously wouldn't have been able to buy a laptop with their $120/month wage* if it wasn't for Hugo Rafael.

b. Corrupt people that benefit from government guisos and would die if PSUV wasn't in power.

c. Poor uneducated people that are satisfied with the really cheap chinese HDTVs given to them by the government* when their beds are falling apart, and would sell their vote for half a bag of rice.

d. Children of people that worked in PDVSA (even if the parents weren't chavistas, they had to pretend that they were chavistas).

e. "Anti-imperialist" retards too stupid to realize that the enemy of your enemy isn't your friend if he's always fucking you and everyone else over as much as he can.

* = no longer applicable

A and C overlap often

Venezuelan government still refuses aid, and chooses to save face by saying that they don't need it: nytimes.com/2016/09/28/world/americas/venezuela-refuses-us-aid.html

Lilian Tintori (Leopoldo Lopez's wife) took 25 boxes of medical supplies to a Venezuelan children's hospital latino.foxnews.com/latino/health/2016/09/27/opposition-wife-takes-25-boxes-medical-supplies-to-venezuelan-hospital/

Fucking brilliant.

I'm not sure I blame them, it's fucking American greens. It's got conditions whether they're agreed on before or imposed after money actually changes hands. Not to mention America has traditionally worked against Venezuela and there's no reason for that to change (other than maybe more SOESHLISZZEM DUNNAE WERK, SILLY SASSANACHS! memeing)

Am i having a stroke

Só eu sinto que toda semana eu leio a mesma merda de texto no Facebook?

Acho que já o terceiro ou quarto textão do mês que tenta explicar pra nós, ingênuos Marxistas sem noção da realidade, que um "trabalhador negro é ainda mais oprimido que um branco, caaaaara" to casando dessa porra já.

A esquerda brasileira é uma desgraça. Só sabem usar Marxismo pra adicionar slogans pseudo-revolucionários a idéias progressistas que são altamente senso comum e mainstream.

Recommend me some latin/BR books and authors about local economy, preferably from the marxian standpoint.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Veins_of_Latin_America

1964 BEST YEAR OF MY LIFE!

I like how that book's autor shits on it later, saying that he was young and didn't know shit about polítics when he wrote the book. I guess that political views really do change with time.

I'm not very fond of, but Caio Prado Junior's Economic History of Brazil is a classic, might help you start. Heard some nice things about Cladio Katz(argentinian marxian economist), although I'm not sure if he is translated, do you mind some works in Portuguese?

Municipal elections today, the left in my city is more dead than ever and I think I'm going to vote in someone from PSTU for the legislatives. She's from MAIS (which had "split" from PSTU because the later adopted a position of "OUT WITH EVERYONE" in the eve of Dilma's impeachment), but still officially affiliated to PSTU because they couldn't register the party in time for elections, nor register in another multi-tendency party such as PSOL) and the PSOL candidate for mayor. I have hope for neither.

Second round will be probably PSDB vs PMDB. Fuck you Maceió.

...

venezuela is next

Fuck Venezuela, I'm worried about Uruguay.

And i know we will never have a united left front or anything like that. They will squabble until the bitter neoliberal end.

No, feel free to post every recommendation that you have.

What do my fellow brazilians think of PCO and PSTU?

Trotskyists that somehow want to be Marxist-Leninist. For them, everyone else is petit-bourgeoisie except themselves. A cult of Rui Costa Pimenta and his family. His international political analysis are ok-ish, though.

Do you know that stereotype that Trotskyists always do everything to mess up movements and promote splits? That's PSTU, which speaking of, just split again to form MAIS (or how Rui Pimenta dubbed them, "The Happiness Crowd").

Not that Rede was leftist tbh.

Mais alguém aí no Brasil sentindo uma sensação de impotência completa?

Não sou muito ligado a política partidária, e nunca fui o tipo de pessoa que associa a "causa da esquerda" com políticos ou partidos, mas a derrota após derrota que a gente tem sofrido nesse plano tá me deprimindo um bocado.

Não só isso, mas parece que a direita tá avançando em todas. Eu ando completamente sem saco e energia pra debater ou discutir. Eu entro no Facebook ou Twitter e já desanimo com a quantia de lixo direitista que eu vejo. É tanta propaganda que levariam anos pra desmentir. Eu pisco e já tem um novo think-thank conservador com graninha americana e um novo Bocó Pela Liberdade #82917 nas redes sociais fazendo a cabeça dos jovens aqui. Parece que a esquerda ficou uma década e meia comendo mosca, deixando eles acumularem todo tipo de recurso, e agora não temos opção a não ser recuar.

Tá foda, vontade de nem esquentar com política por um tempo mais.

Koreans have a word for that: Haan, impotence in face of injustice

É o que eu estou fazendo.