I don't think we (leftypol and leftists in general) put enough effort into normalizing communism/anarchism...

This will backfire because they've seen the effects of direct democracy in 🍀🍀🍀certain internet communities🍀🍀🍀 and well…

human nature bro!!!!

Your obsession with internationalism. No group of people are ever going to thank you for shilling for their dispossession.
So long as most of you still cannot get it into your heads that race not only exists, but matters hugely to the vast majority of people (for good reason) then you are doomed to be little more than unwitting mouthpieces for global capital acting AGAINST the stated wishes of the people whose interests you profess to have in mind.

The only way any form of socialism could ever work is within an homogenous society. In multiracial societies, (which are inherently undesirable and full of fracture points, anyway) socialism means that productive groups end up keeping unproductive groups. This is clearly already the case as far as the welfare state is concerned. Best of all, people like you actually pander to the incompetent groups and admonish their keepers for daring to even exist.

The only reason you can pontificate about any of this is because you live in a highly advanced society that was traditionally homogenous and built by Europeans. Your multi-ethnic kumbaya bullshit is not only reliant entirely upon the people to whom you deny any right to exist and not be swamped by envious/malevolent foreigners, but is actually in lock step with the forces of global capital and utterly reflective of the all-permeating decadence of the modern west.

How can your brains tolerate such contradictory sentiments as anti-imperialism, on the one hand, and globally enforced communism, which respects no borders or the inherent tribalism of the people therein, on the other?

For as long as you keep singing from the decadent, selectively hyper-moralist, globalist song sheet then you can expect the broader mass of people, who's greatest concern is their nation being destroyed by foreign tribes (that are shilled for aggressively against them by bourgeois leftists AND international capitalists), to view you as being, at best, irrelevant, and at worst, traitors.

The 'open you mind, man - can't you see we're all just humans?' nonsense is precisely the toss that ever increasing numbers of people despise ALL leftists for: yet on the evidence of this site, genuine communists still espouse it liberally (on a board that is supposedly 'politically incorrect': you can't even get that right) with no concern for anyone who objects: simply writing them all off as 'racists' or people who simply haven't been informed that actually they love multiculturalism.

Holla Forums and the general milieu it represents will continue to grow, as greater numbers of people become willing to express their pent-up hatred of the open borders, nation-hating, tradition-sullying, white man-baiting ideology of the super rich and their useful idiots (you).

tl;dr

Jesus you're still here shilling?
There has never been any European unity. Most people do not think of "Race" first, they think of where they're from, which if anything relates more to Stalin (hey, it ain't shit, regardless of what you think about Stalin later) and his words on nations (i.e in the sense a Chinese person would use the term Nation, not an ameriburger); which is a shared economic interaction, and a shared geographic region/area.

How does that, say, compare to Europe and "The European"? Oh, we were all killing eachother. A lot. A hell of a fucking lot. We didn't share any fucking economy.

Everyone in today's world would be considered "White", but back then? Nobody said "White". Where are you from.
What's your family lineage. What village your from. Etc.

Blow me.

We share no fucking "racial" unity. We do share an economic unity, the one you ignore. The only fucking "tool" for the capitalist here, is you, as the focus you want to insist on making the only one is precisely that which has you allying in unison, disregarding economic class, with the very same people that comprise the "global capitalist elite". You fucking, absolute, total moron.

Well, I tried to help you….
Worry not, effeminate leftycuck, soon your greatest wish will come true, and you'll actually get to be p-p-p-p-p-persec-c-c-cuted.

Haha what a faggot.

Just do what mummy says: curl up in the corner, fingers in ears and begin the incantation:

Meanwhile, on planet not-a-cuck, niggers are committing a massively disproportionate number of crimes, jews are bankrupting, brainwashing and facilitating the colonisation of a whole civilisation, chinks are memorising white-men-facts and all non-white groups on earth are defending their ethnic interests.

No no no. This would be preaching to the converted.

First go for the outspoken free-marketeers. Post on the pages of CATO institute and the likes. Be obnoxious here, but don't get too deep into theory as you'll lost people's attention. Eventually somebody more mainstream -not necessarily free-marketeer- but somebody who kinda likes capitalism will intervene. If they have a lot of followers move the conversation away from the excesses of free-marketism to a more general critique of capitalism. Keep hammering home the emotive bits (third world exploitation, income disparity the socioeconomic factors that show how blacks and other minorities are more likely to be poor (this is just for the low hanging fruit, but if you can get some BLM mouthpieces speaking in your language you've dun good). The key thing is to wait for one of {{{them}}} to bite on their terms then to school them for all of twitter to see. Do this loads and some of their followers will be converted. Also memes. On the twittersphere, a slightly smug image can be much more effective than a thesis that nobody will read.

People who stand for my political (actual commie) belief have been persecuted and killed pretty much since the dawn of industrial capitalism. You seem to think I'm some sort of SJW promoting person?

And no, race doesn't exist on the level you claim. Or rather, the genetic differences that do exist do not equate to a different "race", but "race" has many different definitions to begin with. What you seem to purport is that "race" is the same as a "nation", a "nation" being a shared community amongst a gathering of people in a region in which their shared economy, that they all partake in, has dominance, over.

That's the root of most "race" solidarity thinking, and it has zero to do with genetic race. The fact that some of these places, that would account to a nation, share genetic traits stem typically from tribal very low amount of people pretty much having to breed with whoever was there, and available, for copulation.

As time progressed, travel and modes of transportation progressed, "ethnic" backdrop and genes became even more mixed. There really is no race, just various strains that have slight difference, none of which in any way relate to complex human behavior, cognition and the constructs of societal "evolution" (which is merely being able to congit, and record said cognition, and engage in a debate, typically attempting some sort of scientifical approach, but always clouded by the economic structure that they reside within (for instance, if you're a king and you write a treatise on the economic relations of the world and the society at large - you would have to find some way to justify why the fuck you are a king, no?).

Add that on to most literature of the past, after solid recording of said history, being written by the most economically advantaged to begin with - as literacy was not pursued for the masses. In essence all of history is mostly written by the elites of the world, at the top of the economic structures they were the dictators of. But yea that's going off on a major tangent.

My point is, there really is no fucking race, and if you went back to the Viking age, walked up to a farmer in the Scandinavian territories, and said "I'm white, you're white, we're allies!" they would probably look at you confused as fuck. First of all, asking what the fuck you meant by "white".

your problem:
lack of populism
which topics are having memetic momentum?
whats the communist stance on those issues?

the "alt right" gained recognition through shitting all over popular topics and eventually it attracted flies

to conter those we have to attack mainstream issues and give them a communist perspective instead

we have to force the memes harder and shove them into everyones face all over the internet

mesaging has to be simple, make it repetative and catchy and spam it all over
you wont get people into reading further into it if they don't even pay attention in the first place
be obnoxious attentionwhores, be more radical and offensive than everyone else

This guy gets it.

Hell there's even a prime target about right now in Gary Johnson. Shame. I agree with his social policies (to the extent I am aware of them), but his support for free trade shit (TPP/TTIP) and neo-liberalism in general, plus his support of mass migration makes him an easy target to hit from a left or right perspective.

Nobody will take seriously until you have in your ranks revisionists and gulag-apologists. You can't offer some cheap humanistic critique of capitalism while praising regimes which treated its population like dirt.

let's do this then
get a sticky thread with the following task for Holla Forumsetarians to find for each week:
one topic, target and one catchphrase to adress it with

what is race .-. ?

yeah, it's more likely to achieve socialism by adapting capitalist slander against any attempts on it
you totally got it figured out
here's a place for other people likeminded that you should have an in depth talk: >>>/suicide/

This is simply untrue. Unless you draw random borders with a ruler like it was done for Africa at the Berlin Conference, borders of nations were organically shaped through environment and cultural commonalities during history besides economics and wars.

pic related. Nations do an acceptable job in representing genetic ancestry.

Can't you read?

Addendum: keep in mind, a "nation" in this context is not a nation state, and the abstraction of race in which you're engaging in is precisely trying to establish the same style of solidarity which might exist within a nation of a peoples - a community, but with none of the underlying mechanics (i.e no shared economy, no shared geographic location), and tie it solely to genetic markers that are but chance and inconsequential to all the greater philosophical, economic and political-economic traits and creations of culture in which you wish to reside within.

...

What is a nation .-.?

This is no answer ._.

I ain't doing shit. I'm your resident stealth Holla Forumsack. But I'd love nothing more than to see SJW cancer BTFO and if bringing the focus back to traditional leftism does this then you have my memes. Cause I sure as shit can't help you with the theory side. TTIP memes would be a good bait to lure them in.

Those people who look like you do, which makes you feel all fuzzy and warm inside~~~

slightly OT.

Nation is just a grouping of people with shared history, identity and culture.

A nation in the sense that I'm using it, and in the sense that the racialist person I've been replying to is using "race" and trying to push it towards race-genetics, is a group of people living in a region in which their shared economic system (whatever it may be) has dominance over said region. In other words, it's merely whoever lives somewhere, has lived there to the point where they see themselves and those around them as belonging to their "own" culture, and has seperations occurring with other "nations" and competing economies. Most of them obviously being related to feudalism, and later capitalism, but the cultural output and the weird little quirks that might arise within each of them are still identifiable and not necessarily something to be derided. (nor worshipped and romanticized)

They're entirely victims of history, and always subject to change. They are not however, rooted in genetics or racial theory, as that's putting the cart before the horse - any genetic trait or racial traits are coincidental. (and usually the result, primarily, of inbreeding, to put it bluntly. Many villages of old were essentially just one large family, literally)

I put little weight in nations, but it's a historical fact, whereas what I'm arguing against is the further abstraction trying to remove all material conditions that lead to it - away - and tie it all into mystical "racial differences", which is what I'm arguing against in this thread.

alright, i'm not gonna do shit either tho
this board sucks and i'm not exhausting myself in any attempts of promoting actionism

I might get involved just for the bantz but you'll want people who actually can into economics and lefty theory to lead the way.

a are you my nation ?

...

kek

You asked what a nation is. The expectation that you should do anything for the good of the nation is nationalism. It's my opinion that nationalism serves my interests. I'm not going to be the first to volunteer to die in the desert for the benefits of super-rich assholes but I do support measures that will protect the parts of my nation that I value.

Huh? Buzzfeed style journalists go your route, mystifying race, ignoring the material conditions and taking the other side of the idpol coin. I'm specifically talking about the conditions that give rise to what you seem to holify, ignoring economic conditions. Ignoring exactly the same shit buzzfeed and 'liberal media' et.al also ignores… while also glorifying the abstractions.

Like you are.

Faggot.

I'll admit, your post is amazing and makes a lot of sense and it is true that the worst capitalists are promoting the mutlikult message in order to line their own pockets by diluting the workers with cheap labour. But it is unfair to categorise everyone like that.

No. But if you live within the region in which their economic shared system dominates, and their culture and language dominates, and you then indoctrinate yourself and partake in their shared culture, and economy, then yes. Do you live in Sweden?

...

I love it when you go full retard.

This analysis of what a nation is, is accepted globally, and by the way the communist analysis of it which I'm referencing here was initially written by… not trotsky. Not soc dems. Not modern lefits, guess who? Stalin.

To me, leftism makes sense because it is in your own best interest.
To me, nationalism also makes sense because it is in your own best interest.
But I cannot combine these things, so what do I do?

...

Social Nationalism? What's that?

There's this wicked ideology called Not Socialism you may wish to look into.
I'm guessing you were actually baiting this answer though, and I'd agree that, in those terms, Not Socialism makes perfect sense for you.

Nat*

No, you were completely right with the "Not Socialism" part, as nat socialism most certainly is not socialism nor in the benefit of the lower classes whatsoever.

There is nothing as National values "i love these values because the group that some asshole but me in have some nice things to say about something"

I myself take my values from philosophy and thats more than enough we should destroy all cultures and give philosophers the task of forging a new universal culture tbh

So i need the following
1-learn Irish English
2-lern the Dublin culture
3-Ready my ass for capitalism
4-engage with the fags there
i live in the hellhole and tbh Dublin>Sweden
my favorite non German speaking writer was born there

Would consider retards racial or national identity ?

Sounds pretty sweet right?

Yea, it does, I'd call that civic progress via struggle within a nation and finding solidarity amongst the group (nation) of which you did it with.

I was mostly replying because I figured it was a nazi that typod Not Socialism. Well clobber me dead with a frozen whale, I was wrong.

Apparantly as per my last post (the last linked, there), there's a word filter in place. So my posts are moot. You didn't type 'not socialism'. It filter n.at s.oc (or full typed out variations of it), into "Not Socialism", nevermind.

I got no problems with you board owners, but sometimes word filters can get in the way of proper shitposting and drunken arguments. That can be kind of annoying.

There are cultural norms in any given society. Somebody who grows up under these cultural norms will likely inherit them.

I grew up somewhere that values rationalism, real (scientific) progress and ostensibly liberty. I think these values are for the betterment of humanity as a whole, and as such want to see them protected and promoted.

...

What I think we should do first is to attempt to improve our image with the rest of Holla Forums by fighting Holla Forums misinformation about the board. I mean for fucks sake from what I've seen the rest of the site sees us as a threat equal to Holla Forums whose sole purpose for existence is to fuck up other boards and the site in general.

Just today while I was browsing /tg/ I noticed a thread talking about shared interests between certain boards such as Holla Forums and /tg/ itself, the discussion there eventually came to the Holla Forums & Holla Forums split where the regular users were talking about Holla Forums as a balancing force to counter stormfaggotry and that we left because of biased moderation while Holla Forumsacks just basically practiced historical revisionism and claimed that they were always right and their arguments basically boiled down to "leftists got BTFO every time and made their own board as a safe space to protect themselves from muh dissenting opinions."

Just hold your nose and jump into the shitshow that is 4pol. Massive userbase, autism to spare and a lot of them are getting sick of Trump (and the alt-right by extension).

I didn't even know what Holla Forums was before Holla Forums.

I tried to explain socialism and communism to a conservative who was interested but as soon as I crushed their misconceptions they deleted my last comment and didnt reply back saying they didnt want the world to see them having a discussion about capitalism vs socialism.

Everything about this paragraph is complete bullshit. There is a rise of reaction in Europe, for sure, but don't be fucking retarded and give credit to imageboard dweebs and refer to these guys as "alt-right". They aren't.

So natural it has to be shilled 24/24 on media. >Muh Black community
The whole political discourse is totally biased in favor of racial and gender identity rather than class, the closer we got is rich vs poor and it's very approximative to say the least.
For people bragging about seeing through the bullshit the MSM is spourting, you're quick to gobble their underlying narrative.

Jesus Christ I thought that the video was just failed ironic humor until the user decided to give a "refresher" on Russian history.

Go home fascist. We know it's you. You're just here trying to start an argument and turn parts of the working class against each other.

what is the difference?

Fascists are workers.

Some of them are.

Some socialists are neets.

Yeah, workers of discord, reaction, hatred, and evil.

Remember:

There is enough variant of socialism,communism and anarchy to get the discord, you can argue it's all a reaction to the capitalist revolution over the old society, do not pretend it's hate-free and evil just depend of the point of view.

At this point, socialists with the nationalist sauce are not this far away.

I personally think that any degree of nationalism beyond supporting the rights of people to guide their own affairs disqualifies you from being able to call yourself a genuine leftist, of any stripe.

The reason why nationalism rose to prominence is because the right wing managed to bring it out of the abstract theory that the left (and myself included) love to jerk off over. The nation was brought down to a level even the dumbest of village idiots could understand, because even the village idiot understands that he is a part of a village. The jump from family -> nation is not that great of a leap tbh.

This.

Also, stuffy like, that is general exposure helps, at least when people are listening to arguments: youtube.com/watch?v=JsZL1qYl9fw&feature=youtu.be

This is why I consider debating ancaps instead, but otherwise, I would argue Max Stirner is one of the 'mascots' we have. He would fit right in a show like Rick and Morty.

To me SJW reactionary idpolers are the most immediate threat. They are today's aristocrats if you think about it. Thing is, we should keep pointing out this shit is in fact funded by big porkies, and the fact they already are the mainstream….Which is why we need to spread info/memes.

You can't as long as you claim credit for everything that doesn't crash into a fireball.