Thoughts on the Kurds?

I almost joined them but then my friends all talked me out of it.

Still regret it too this day and now I am in a position where I cant leave.

You know what they say, at the end of your life its not the things you did that you regret, its the things you didn't do.

Black Lives Matter.

illegalism

Black lives matter isn't leftist, its pure identity politics. Also it has no clear agenda, or organization, and is just about as cohesive as fucking gamergate.

Its a hashtag movement that anyone and their dog can claim to be a part of and anyone who takes it seriously is either seriously naive or is genuinely a bad person who is trying to push black nationalism and sees this as a jumping off point.

Except it fights against white oppression, fool.

These guys are doing much more than your "leftist" ass is doing here.

Kill yourself or at the very least take your identity politics somewhere else.

Agreed bro, fuck those muzzies. They're beyond repair. We should just nuke the middle east and be done with it. If you disagree you're a weak liberal

Black lives mattter hasn't even managed to get body cams on police they are fucking useless and have achieved nothing.

BLM has done more to fight the white establishment than any of your little fatasses ever did.

Now that you have restated your original point in different words with no examples or evidence it has now magically become correct. You sure showed me.

I hope you meant to say capitalist establishment m8

They have spoken up about black oppression more than you ever did.

Same shit.

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White people=capitalism

Yep. All those god damn West Virginian coal miners sure are oppressing you.

They have rioted, they have protested and they have even killed pigs. What did you do?

Sure they did, taking away jobs black people can do instead.

Two thirds of people killed by cops are white. While blacks are overrepresented, this is not a problem they exclusively face, and if people like blm didn't make it into a race issue maybe it'd be more successful

I didn't know America was under Apartheid.
Look on the bright side, at least white people don't kill Albino people due to superstitions as they do in some african countries

Albino Lives Matter project when?

That's because there are lesser black people than white people.

Put them into percentage, and black people still get oppressed more.

America was under fucking slavery, dude.

They killed jews though!

We need a jew lives matter!

You misspelled "looted their own communities"

None of those protests changed anything and have only served to make their organization look worse. Need I bring up the "What do we want, DEAD COPS!" incident.

A guy who claimed to not be affiliated with any groups shot a few police officers who had litterally nothing to do with what he was mad about in a community that had recenty adopted community policing measures in a city with one of the best community police relations in the country and was then denounced by practically every single black lives matter """"""""leader"""""""" in the country.

Oh so you are a nazi, good to know.

So what? Is this fucking oppression Olympics? If cop brutality is not an issue exclusive to blacks, what can you possibly gain by making it a racial issue?

Im on your team but you are being a shit with your statistics. Black people make up a smaller portion of society are are disproportionately shot by cops but they also commit way more crime than white people.

Oh great more white apologist pig.

I hope someone who isn't totally a BLM leader will snuff you.

Oh wait, you aren't worth that shit.

BLM will be all over the world, in US, in UK, in Israel, then in France and Japan and Germany, while you shitpost on the internet.

Well, to a European it sure looks like it is. All America has done since day one is fuck over black people.

THE AMERICAN JEWISH HOLOCAUST?!?!?!

WHAT!?!?!

Are you like 13 or something?

Cuz they attack more black people than white people, percentage-wise?

They are overrepresented, yes. But that doesn't make it a racial issue.

Well, I never heard AFRICAN-AMERICANS massacring albinos in AMERICA, have you heard of it?

Just admit that you are a black Nazi.

Our president is black.
An apartheid this does not make.

No but I hear about them massacring each other all the time.

Percentage wise, black people commit more crime. So maybe I should make a group called stop black people. Do you get my point or not

You are a white oppressor, you deserve death, scum.

But you are a small fry, so we kill you later.

Racist!

Racist and racial profiling!

Ah yes

Solidarity with my kurd brother, but BLM is a bigger movement!

Oh never mind you are a troll, no human could ever be this stupid.

"stop white cops" isn't racial profiling?

We kill black cops too.

Uncle tom deserves no mercy tbh

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oh my god fucking kill youself

What a racist troll!

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Kurds are yet another group of nationalist revolutionaries who will be kicked around and eventually destroyed by the power players in the Middle East, from Russia, Syria, US, Israel and Turkey. A pointless waste of time and effort on their part, and on the left's as well if we choose to bog ourselves down in supporting every single ethno-tribalist conflict that the world has to offer.

Syria is a blasted desert Iraq is a blasted desert and they have the hearts of pretty much everyone but Turkey.

Don't be surprised if they get an independent state. And at that point they are untouchable.

Time to sign up for your local BLM chapter, user.

Plz no more

help is inbound

Join if you want to survive in the day of GLORIOUS BLACK UPRISING, whitey.

fuck you

first gotta fuck them kurdish Nazis

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hey
turkey now shelled the shit out of them
if only there were some better organized stronger military power that could protect them

the USA is probably on it already :^)

actually it's a secular multicultural baath social democracy
unless of course you want a seccesion and become a NATO bitch, then of course assad is the most evil thing, kek

a bit of shelling north of manbij is literally nothing. They're attacking jarabulus to establish a buffer zone, not the ypg

kek

bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171995
Turkey is sending their army into Syria, and have said that unless the Kurds retreat to the east of the Eurphrates, they will be dealt with the same way as ISIS will be.

twitter.com/BBCBarbaraPlett/status/768448489017802752
Biden has said that the US will not support the Kurds unless they retreat to the east of the Euphrates.

The Kurds have been betrayed again.

Oh god, why do communists always suffer this fate?

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over US imperialist domination and clerical fascists anytime, yes

but of course anarkiddies never learned shit out of spain
because apparently everyone else has to accomodate them, otherwise it's "unfair"

the delusions already begin
i wonder what you'll be whining about when the YPG is wiped out

when will you ever learn, kek

How is that in anyway what I said? Of course turkey isn't ok with it, but that's not going to stop the US supporting them going into AL-Bab. Mark my words, they'll just fenangle something with the SDF so it doesn't actually look like the YPG is doing it on paper. The turks have only about a dozen hundred FSA people fighting for them, they can't do it.

That is what they've said they're going to do, but it means that all hope unifying the Cantons, creating a Kurdish Corridor, and having an upper hand in negotiations with both foreign powers and the Syrian Government. When all sides eventually sit down to discuss an end to the war, the Kurds now have no hope of getting their demands for autonomy. They will be relegated to possible recognition as an ethnic group and moderate control of their territories.

In essence, the Kurds just lost any hope at doing anything important in the region for the next 20 years.

COMMUNISM BTFO YET AGAIN

who would have guessed.

kek

they're already rolling in with government troops
US wont back them against the turkish
and they wont give a fuck what flag your Nazis will wear

turkish nationalists fucking up kurdish nationalists
at least this war has something good to it

I wouldn't be to sure, the war is far from over.

20 lbs of liberalism and ass

pew pew

this is exactly what i was talking about
anarchists and kurds
too fucking retarded to realize the deals and coalitions they make, the moves they do, it will only and always lead to them being fucking anihilated before really setting foot

and they will yet again not learn anything
they never do
at this point tragedy became comedy and i'll just watch the show and have a good laugh at retards doing stupid shit

Wtf is your movement doing? What? It's fucking useless either way.

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I never said anything of the sort. Where the hell have tankies even tried to do anything?

the communist party is in the national front government with the baath
they have criticized assad and argue for needed change - after defeating clerikal fascism and US imperialism
if the YPG so choses, they will be grinded between turkey, SAA, russia and now even the US, their saint and protectors :^) if they don't step back
i fucking love it, anarchists bfto yet again

most funny thing is, i'm not even in favor of Baathism or Assad, but not being a retard i know which parties are going to use the right strategy and get out of this victoriously

of course, the anarchists favorite Nazi troop did everything to drive themself into a position that will kill them off and drive them further into irrelevance

good fucking job. if only you had listened.

I don't know in what world you think you're living if you think tankies can do absolutely anything. You're as fucking delusional.

The war is not over, but it's getting there. Most fighting that is not directly against ISIS is in the hopes of gaining territory so that factions can have more negotiating power at the table. Even against IS, that's been the goal for a while. ISIS is getting fucked hard from every angle, and it's a matter of time until they collapse. Now, instead of the SDF getting the majority of the land and credit(and with that bargaining power) for defeating IS, it will now go to the FSA and Turkey. The only hope the Kurds have of staying relevant is taking Raqqa(which is within their new jurisdiction). If they are able to do this, they have some hope, but most likely, in the coming years as the war winds down, the Kurds will go back to the way things were before Kobane; irrelevant and forgotten in the eastern desert while the FSA/Turks battle it out in the cities of the West with the Syrian government. Maybe they will get autonomy, but the chances of that happening have just been drastically reduced.

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Weren't you supposed to be about practicality? You think Assad will support socialists? You think he's let tankies do anything?

You're spot on.
twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/768451832368754688

Do you think the SDF Arabs will desert and join the FSA, fight them if the FSA attacked them, or will they be left to their own devices?

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twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/768475215898828801

That explains what happened in al hasakah yesterday.

wow did i really hurt your feelings that much?

the communist party will gain popularity out of it and use the momentum of their movement
i know, long term thinking isn't your strength

baathism is socdem, get over it faggot
your ethno-socialist Nazi project has driven itself into shit yet again

We'll see tankie.

I'm beginning to think that socialism can only be implemented if it's the first world.

Like in Sweden?

it would be much easier as you wouldn't have to go through the whole construction phase as the soviet union did
"third world" nations always have a shitty industrial bases

Well according to the tankie in the other thread, we already have socialism.

Back to school soon, kiddo.

Kurds brought it on themselves.

Actually supporting Assad and the Syrian government is the only rational choice for a communist. The Kurds are a tool of US imperialism and are really just imposing the USA's fascist hegemonic will onto a poor defenseless state. Supporting Russia and Assad actually alines with marxist anti-imperialist ideology, as anything that stands against imperialism helps the cause.

*cough* *cough* *slurp* *Deep breathing and gagging sounds*

Oh sorry, I couldn't stop myself from giving my tankie ideological meat rod fellatio. *cough*

Are you kidding me? Of course it is possible to oppose US imperialist policies while supporting the Kurds. But there is a clear difference between the al-Nusra Front/Free Syrian Army and Rojava. And if you are going to claim that taking aid from the capitalist system to gain power for workers is impossible, then you are basically copying the capitalist argument that socialists are hypocritical when they use phones to spread a revolutionary message (like during the Occupy movement). Sure the Kurds may be following their own brand of socialism, but instead of openly supporting Assad how about at a bare minimum you give them the benefit of the doubt and just observe them.

Hate the break this to you but the Syrian conflict is about as revolutionary bankrupt (save for the Kurds) as Ukrainian conflict, in that all the major actors are liberals/right wing. Russia and the USA are both porky bastards fighting with puppet states run by porky bastards. "Oh but the USA is a autocratic state that has world hegemony." Yeah obviously, but that doesn't de facto lead the the conclusion that you must back a less powerful state that is equally autocratic.

That being said, should the US be in Syria? No, it is just a struggle for resources and political power. Does that mean we can support revolutionary movements birthed from the chaos? Yes clearly, solidarity.

Kurds will be wiped out by the US once the US is finished with them, we already see this happening. It is an absolutely retarded move for them not to align themselves with Russia instead who is at least tolerant of communism.

I don't see the Kurds succeeding in this struggle but it strikes me how hostile some people are towards them as if they were deadly enemies and revile at what they see to be their coming fall. What kind of fucking solidarity is that?

I despise idiots that easily could have gotten what they wanted and made a case for how socialism can work and instead make mistakes that should be obvious which dooms them.

What was that ya'll were saying about the kurds getting btfo?

I can't read the legend can you explain

The fact that they will let their children starve, the youngest girls go first, if there isn't enough to eat kind of disillusioned me on them. Fuck'em.

Red is turkey, black is isis, yellow Is ypg/sdf, and green is Turkish backed fsa.

You do know that Turkey just invaded Syria? Like today? And is now attacking the Kurds?

Do you not know what that map is of? The YPG are advancing against the turkish backed rebels.

I hope Turkey gets kicked out of NATO and absolutely fucking liberated into the ground by Russia, tbqh.

So is Turkey actually invading or using proxy agents?

Both

The Turkish army is in Syria but the Western Media will not report on it yet because things are developing too quickly.
The past couple of years the Kurds have been receiving lukewarm reception from American media, but with this new development, corporate media doesn't know what and how to report it.
Turkey is a key NATO ally and the Kurds simply are not. There is very little tactical reason for the American Empire to continue to support the Kurds if that will mean losing the Turks as an ally.

There is clear tactical reason, they are the only friendly force capable of taking Raqqa. The turks are no where near positioned to do that.

Reuters is the most up to date, to my knowledge and they are still about two to three hours behind. It takes time for more established organizations to validate information.

True, the Turks will not help the American funded forces take over Raqqa, even if the YPD is removed from the equation. However, regionally speaking, the Americans are looking at the power dynamics in the region.
They're already getting a lot of shit from their relationship with the Saudis lately. Even with the war crimes Erdogan is committing against the Kurks in the South East of Turkey, he is much more palatable to Liberals than the Iranians or Saudis.

The coup purges and media crack downs have damaged him in that regard.

The point is, the number one domestic pressure right now is to destroy ISIS, turkey cannot and will not help towards that goal. Obama doesn't want to have to deal with the middle east at all, and there are growing numbers of people in his administration that have grown impatient with erdogan. If turkey presses against the SDF too hard, I think the US response wouldn't be pleasant for them.

twitter.com/24Aleppo/status/768510845240369152

Case in point.

Erdogan is the worst Turk.

PRC, emplace kurd upon the region.

What the fuck am I reading? Is this an actual Assad shill?

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I can't believe that they started anarcho_nationalism

WHY WHY why they still fall for the muh nation meme ;_;

this liberal faggot is to the left of our anarchist ethno-"socialist" Nazi YPG pro US-interventionist faggot faction
youtube.com/watch?v=_3Tu73xY7a8

anarchists are literally NATO shills and want to base their "socialism in one region" on ethnicity
hitler would've shed tears of joy

this post is some of the biggest autism I've seen in a while

wew, who would have guess

So, is rojava kill? or this just means they won't be able to conect the cantons?

They can still connect the cantons, but now its a race against the turks. Right now they are clashing north of jarabulus, considering how Turkey's army has been weakened and how good the YPG has been at holding territory, I'm not sure who's gonna win out.

its disgusting how you defend a democidal dictator that brutally slauters his own people, becuase muh amercian imperialism.

without US aid they're dead motherfuckers eating dirt

they're done

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mental gymnastics, everyone.

socialism in "one country" (soviet union = country? kek) is managable

saying it isn't while supporting rojava faggotry is the joke you retard

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youre the one deffending al-assad

Conveniently forgetting that Assad is backed by the just as imperialist Russia.

Face it, you're choosing between two imperialist forces. I'd rather choose the ones who have been fighting for leftist causes for decades, currently have a system of governance inspired by anarchist traditions, with reasonable demands, and who face imminent genocide.

It's not like you got any fucking stake in this.
Calling the Kurds nazi's is doing nothing in your favor when we have all fucking seen the documentaries and read the articles from foreigners visiting, it carries no weight when it's so obviously false.

Why the fuck would you support the
meme when you could be supporting actual socialists?

Yeah Turkey the holder of the American nukes pointing at Moscow will get kicked out of NATO anytime soon.
If anything happens to the Turkey NATO relationship, it will be either Turkey making the move or it will happen after the situation has cooled down.

We got a couple of them. Probably the same people sucking DPRK cock.

They're in the middle of a fucking war you idiot.

yeah fuck the tankies do you think the kurds need men now?

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Jesus fucking christ

ITT: A stalinist defending ethno-nationalist social democrats(AKA the very definition of fascists) that murder their own people becuz MUH ANTI-IMPERIALISM

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cute
kek, here goes the NATO shill into full retard mode

kill yourself

faggot, kek

>>>/faggot/

What do you tankies think of the SSNP?

A country of fertile plains, high mountains, and deserts, Syria is home to diverse ethnic and religious groups, including Syrian Arabs, Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Circassians,[8] Mandeans[9] and Turks. Religious groups include Sunnis, Christians, Alawites, Druze, Mandeans, Shiites, Salafis, and Yazidis.

Since you're the one presenting dissenting opinion, bring the evidence.
Source me on the "communist party syria" being actually able (meaning having right theory and big enough public support) to implement socialism in post-war syria.
Source me on the Kurds being ethno-fascists.
If you can convince me on these two points, I will accept that it's non-obvious to be in support of the Kurds as a leftist.

The rest of your points are just as the retarded as everything else you've said this thread. Nobody would blame anyone for accepting US help when you're in a literal war, assuming (which we kind of have to do, since no info afaik) that it comes with easy to appease demands/no string at all.
Who cares about popular support.
Russia is definitely pushing their own geopolitical agenda in Syria.

If you are truly interested in what DC plans on doing next, read this blog led by a World Bank front/think thank.

washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/rojavas-sustainability-and-the-pkks-regional-strategy

do social democrat murder people for speaking out against the government

I read it, I'm not entirely sure what Washington's going to do based on that info

Washington? Not much. Various ravenous capitalists? They'll sure as fuck try to buy out that sweet oil supply should the Kurds succesfully form their own stable State.

Yeah, it's home to them.
Doesn't mean that the Syrian state is not Ethno-nationalist.
Turkmen, Turkish and Kurdish, for instance are illegal languages and you will get arrested for speaking it in public. Also a whole lot of individuals belonging to these minorities are denied citizenship, up to 500.000 kurds.

Also, Baathists translated Mein Kampf into arabic, and do not support class-based socialism or class-struggle.

It is really hard to argue that they are not fescists.

I dunno, the price of oil being what it is it might not be worth it

If anything, making sure that oil does not hit the markets immediately might be beneficial in the long run.

YPG comrade!
Can you answer some questions about the geopolitical situation of Rojava?
In the other thread about the Kurds offensive in Hasaka, I were wondering what the Kurds were looking to gain by attacking regime forces. Isn't the regime the only real hope for getting kurdish independence/pseudo-independence?
If they make an enemy of Assad, it seems like they'll just surround themselves with enemies, making them dependent on US support, which isn't a good sign. Especially now that the US is demanding they abandon the corridor.
I know the Kurds are not in any way fans of Assad, but the way I understood it they would be accepting of federate conditions.

Different poster. The regime doesn't desire kurdish autonomy, but they will work with them if it means defeating ISIS and the other rebel forces. Once these two threats are dealt with, there's no reason why assad won't try to retake the autonomous zones. As far as I'm aware, Assad provoked the kurds into a conflict.

checked
Yeah, that's how I understood it as well. But somebody told me that Assad had said at a earlier point in time that he'd be okay with leaving Rojava somewhat alone. Which does makes sense as Rojava places a huge amount of pressure on Erdogan through the PKK.

Rojava turning on Assad forces makes sense in the light of Turkey trying to fix relations with Russia. But I'd be surprised if Assad would make any serous concessions to Turkey.

I doubt you can trust anything the regime says. Assad might be willing to make concessions at the time in order to maintain friendly relations, but I see no reason why he would keep that agreement when given the opportunity to turn his back on it. Remember, Assad expelled the PKK from Syria when faced with the possibility of a Turkish invasion. This lead to the string of events that ended with Apo's imprisonment.

Makes sense, but if the alternative is war with everyone, it seems like a choice between genocide and subservient living, I know which one of those I'd chose.

I doubt it will result with a war with everyone. The Kurds will be useful to the US for a while, especially if the Turks do turn towards Russia. I see the Kurds might cooperate with the US, but the fact that they have to rely more and more on these proxies is evidence of the US's weakening power. Remember that the Roman Empire had to rely more and more on barabarian tribes to maintain it's power. I see the Kurds in a similar light. They may serve in a similar fashion as these tribes in the short term, but in the long term the Kurds will undermine the interests of US as they (The US) become more dependent on them, just like the barbarian tribes of Rome.

Your point being that the US depending on the kurds, rather than putting boots on the ground, is a sign of their imperial power weakening?
I don't see it man. The reason NATO isn't putting boots on the ground is because public opinion is very very slated against more interventionism in the middle east. We've been fighting there for 15 years without pause.
The US isn't really dependent on the Kurds. They're the major power in the biggest military alliance the world has ever seen. This is a proxy war to them, they're showing that they won't let the Russians bully neighboring countries into pro-Russian regimes.

If push comes to shove, then the US won't stand in the way of Turkey, Russia and Assad. This conflict is just not important enough to risk destabilizing relations with Turkey and Russia.

The US is only able to it's project it's power through proxies though. It's reliance on these proxies is the reason for much of it's woes over the years, since inevitably they come into conflict with them. The worsening public support for direct intervention, as well as the US's foreign policy in general, is merely more evidence of it's weakening power. In order to maintain it's influence, the US has no choice but to use proxies. In that sense they are dependent on them. To simply give up on their proxy would mean to give up their influence within the region. Relations with Turkey and Russia are already destabilizing, and the US can either give up influence in the region or support it's proxies.