General Holla Forums theorythread

We never talk any more. Trolling and funposting is fine but Holla Forums should have a certain level of discussion and I don't think lately we've been meeting it.

There are too many shit threads on Holla Forums right now imo.

I propose that this thread be a general use thread by all currents/flavors/orientations on Holla Forums for posting and discussing theory. Stalinists, Anarchists, backstabbing Soc Dems, everybody. This should be a thread for sharing books and links. Argue til your tits fall off, but be a shitbird somewhere else.

I'll start us off by dumping some of the stuff I used to see posted on Holla Forums pretty frequently.

So leave your ideology at the door and let's discuss a little THEORY

Other urls found in this thread:

davidharvey.org/reading-capital/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/
marxists.org/archi…/pannekoe/1936/party-class.htm
marxists.org/archive/…/1920/open-letter/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/ruhle/1939/ruhle01.htm
marxists.org/…/wor…/1922/democratic-principle.htm
marxists.org/…/bordiga/works/1920/seize-power.htm
international-communist-party.org/…/Texts/SpainB…
libcom.org/…/p.bourrinet - the 'bordigist' …
libcom.org/library/the-story-of-our-origins-dauve
prole.info/texts/kautsky_lenin.html
libcom.org/library/capitalism-communism-gilles-dauve
marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
web.archive.org/…/www.geociti…/~johngray/milititl.htm
web.archive.org/…/www.geocities…/~johngray/questa.htm
marxists.org/archive/camatte/demyst.htm
marxists.org/archive/camatte/capcom/
libcom.org/library/communisation
endnotes.org.uk/issues/1
libcom.org/library/who-are-we
hicsalta-communisation.com/
sic.communisation.net/
facebook.com/…/We are not Anti - Bern…
libcom.org/…/communization-its-discontents-contestat…
pastebin.com/N0RfQdnM
mega.nz/#F!B4dB2SzQ!h_pMC30v2a_y31iD0dy0sg
mega.nz/#!QoRGARhZ!sKun_Jw7izZcNYngYvfs_90Wi6obUcialZf80c2DTYg
youtube.com/watch?v=14mIFbhB0b8
marxists.org/archive/posadas/1968/06/flyingsaucers.html
digamo.free.fr/wolffresnick12.pdf
truth-out.org/news/item/31567-socialism-means-abolishing-the-distinction-between-bosses-and-employees
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

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davidharvey.org/reading-capital/
Obligatory reminder to read Marx.

Please don't let this thread devolve into tankie/Marxist vs anarchist shitposting. We already have enough of that.

fludd detection

Fuck, I have DH's companion to capital but it's too big

i have a theory: what if the only way to make communism successful is to start a nuclear war?

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Sounds like you might be onto something there.

Accelerationism. Also, it's kinda hard to achieve post scarcity when you're nuked to the stone age. Also, and post-nuclear society would probably stand a decent chance of being reactionary.

In what way would nuclear war advance the cause of communism?

Hard reset on everything, I guess. We might have a better chance this time around.

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heh


I'm unconvinced by the necessity for nuclear war.

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that's easy, let me show you:

all these sillies getting meme'd on smh

posadist flag when?

# LEFT-COMMUNISM ('20s/'50s)
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/
- Anton Pannekoek, "Party and Class"
marxists.org/archi…/pannekoe/1936/party-class.htm
- Herman Gorter, "Open letter to comrade Lenin":
marxists.org/archive/…/1920/open-letter/index.htm
- Otto Ruhle, "The struggle against fascism begins with the struggle against bolshevism"
marxists.org/archive/ruhle/1939/ruhle01.htm
- Amadeo Bordiga,
"The democratic principle"
marxists.org/…/wor…/1922/democratic-principle.htm
"Seize Power or Seize the Factory?"
marxists.org/…/bordiga/works/1920/seize-power.htm
- "Bilan", articles about spanish revolution
international-communist-party.org/…/Texts/SpainB…
- Philippe Bourrinet, "The 'bordigist' current (1912-1952)"
libcom.org/…/p.bourrinet - the 'bordigist' …

m8

# POST-LEFTCOM/ULTRALEFT ('60s/'70s)
- G. Dauvé,
"The story of our origins"
libcom.org/library/the-story-of-our-origins-dauve
"The renegade Kautsky and his disciple Lenin" prole.info/texts/kautsky_lenin.html
"Capitalism and Communism"
libcom.org/library/capitalism-communism-gilles-dauve
- G. Debord, "Society of Spectacle"
marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
- OJTR, "Militancy, highest stage of alienation"
web.archive.org/…/www.geociti…/~johngray/milititl.htm
- La Guerre Sociale, "The question of the state"
web.archive.org/…/www.geocities…/~johngray/questa.htm
- J. Camatte,
"The democratic mystification"
marxists.org/archive/camatte/demyst.htm
"Capital and Community"
marxists.org/archive/camatte/capcom/
# COMMUNISATION THEORIES
- Troploin (Dauvè&Nesic), introduction to communisation
libcom.org/library/communisation
- Endnotes, #1, "Preliminary materials for a balance sheet of the 20th century" (Troploin vs Theorie Communiste)
endnotes.org.uk/issues/1
- Théorie Communiste, "Who are we?"
libcom.org/library/who-are-we
- Bruno Astarian website, "Hic Salta"
hicsalta-communisation.com/
- SIC, International Journal for Communisation
sic.communisation.net/
- Bernard Lyon, "We are not 'Anti'" facebook.com/…/We are not Anti - Bern…
- V.A. , "Communization and its discontents"
libcom.org/…/communization-its-discontents-contestat…

why are you doing this fam, the links are broken
use this instead:

pastebin.com/N0RfQdnM

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Well, fuck, I can't argue with that. It's dialectically perfect.

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I've tried reading this once but did not understand anything.

What didn't you understand about it?

It was full of mystical Hegelian terms.

"Rich people earned that money seems to be like a much more common view among older people than people currently under 40.

Knowledge through literature of both sides is essential to both sides.

mega.nz/#F!B4dB2SzQ!h_pMC30v2a_y31iD0dy0sg

mega.nz/#!QoRGARhZ!sKun_Jw7izZcNYngYvfs_90Wi6obUcialZf80c2DTYg


Didn't some falsely believe that WWI would result in the proletariat defecting against their squabbling nationalities in their conflicts and banding together? I think the same reality which actually occurred during WWI would roughly happen in the case of a modern war, even with all the growing "1%" antagonism.

Recommended reading for everyone, this Russian combination of Alex Jones and Nick Land is the inspiration of Putin.

Spooky stuff.

can somebody itt explane what posadism is? all i can find is this youtube.com/watch?v=14mIFbhB0b8

thanks guys.

"Flying saucers, the process of matter and energy, science, the revolutionary and working-class struggle and the socialist future of mankind"

marxists.org/archive/posadas/1968/06/flyingsaucers.html

Uphold Anarcho-Leninist-Hoxhaist-Posadas thought!

Kapitalism 101? Let me ask, do you like the video Style of those more than the style of videos xexizy and lsr put out?

I haven't seen the videos by xexizy and isr, I'm following this chart progressively.

I can understand reading rightist literature to see their (spooked) point of view but I ain't gonna waste my time reading religious bullshit, that's too much fam.

What is it for anarchists that made them disillusioned with the withering away of the state via DotP that marx, engels and lenin espoused?

i didn't happen, the ussr had 70 years to witherway the state, but the soviet gov choose not to

but is it fair to base it off the only actual example of state socialism, state socialism which was corrupted with market, and capitalist reforms after stalin's death, and which was vying for political power against a hegemony united to crush them, as well as fighting off the nazi's a decade prior?

I recently found a hard cover version of Plato and Marcus Aurelius. Not leftist per say, but for $5 and a tendency to absorb information better off of paper than a screen I figured it would be an alright way to start off philosophy.

Also, any tips for better reading comprehension? I seem to lose it all when reading anything off a screen, somehow. I'm happy to get paper when I can, but I'm poor af.

I read every book 3 times, your brain makes new neural connections and shit over time. Also take notes with a pen and paper.

I really should get into the habit of doing that. A note at least per paragraph probably.

eh, that's pretty euphoric if you ask me
I agree most of the shit on that list is probably pretty fucking spooked. But Christian theology is worth understanding tbh. Even if only as a means to understand the culture you live in, although I would posit that theology has some pretty worthwhile philosophical contributions e.g. within ethics. The Christian concept of virtue and sin has had a pretty large effect on my personal understanding of what it means to be ethical, and I've been an atheist for as long as I remember.
Kirkegaard is also pretty rad.

On an slightly related note, the naïve moral anti-realism espoused on here all the time pisses me off. I get that most people here are hardcore materialists, otherwise people like Stirner would never be as popular as they are, but the way people feel like they don't need to justify their moral anti-realism with anything but "le spooks" is pretty fucking childish.
It's not just childish, it's also insufficient. It's completely true that morals are a spook, as in morals are not aligned with personal interest, but that's not sufficient justification that one should not act in accordance with that which is morally good.

anyone who claims their way of living and view of morality is influenced by Stirner, and claims "Morals are a spook, kiddo, that's why I justify my shitty behavior" hasn't read the book, or even given his concepts much thought at all.

That is the thing though, a lot of people have not read the book, most of the time they're just shit posting in which I wouldn't take seriously really.

It's just pretty hard to tell.
Also, in the end, it doesn't matter if people are 'shitposting' or not, if it expresses their knowledge or belief about something.
If peoples beliefs are wrong, I feel an imperative to convince them.

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Why are you on discussion boards if you don't like debating?

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What makes Christian theology worth any more understanding than Lord of the Rings

Is that what we need to understand Christianity for? To know what's "morally good?"

I'm not convinced.

What? Are you 15?
Maybe the fact that a whole lot of philosophical work went into the theology of Christianity? I know American Christianity is pretty fucked up, but religious culture is very different from theology.

I never said this.

What? Because I see value in philosophical work made by people I disagree with? You're a fucking moron.

lol holy shit

You guys are a joke.

I'm not making ad hominem fallacies. I'm insulting you, because what you said is completely fucking retarded.

yeah, you're right, they were just pretty lame insults

a lot of work went into lord of the rings too, so why should anyone care about this made up bullshit and not that made up bullshit? at least lotr has some pretty hot elves in it.

Math is made up shit, you gonna try to convince anybody it's not useful to invest time in math?
Communism is made up shit.
If you wanna convince somebody that it's not worth their time to read some of the most interesting philosophy to come out of Europe of the last 1k years, you should get a better argument.

Math isn't made up of the fantasy that a sky father is watching them. Even communism is based off of concepts of material relation.

I'm asking you to convince me why it's worth my time you buttmad christfag but so far all you've managed to do is sperg out because someone doesn't respect your spooks.

If this is your serious characterization of what Christianity or religion in general is then sure, you shouldn't read any theology. Forget I tried.

Lol, what "try" faggot? you've just been really mad this whole time, unable to answer even the most simple questions.

ffs guys

I'm with the christfag on this one. Edgy atheists are cancer. If you're gonna reject something, at least know something about what you're rejecting.

Can someone explain why commodity fetishism is a problem?

It makes the Market into a spook, people gotta serve the economy instead of being served by it. That's what i'm getting at least.

Because it leads to the conclusion that capitalism is a result of external forces and not our everyday actions.

It cultivates false consciousness.

thanks, I reasoned to this now through some videos.

Did you know that Lord of the Rings was inspired by medieval Christian philosophy?

No you didnt.

Why cant all men be fembois?

WHY?!!?

Alright so basically the content of value is abstract labor, and the value-form of labor is money/exchange-value. The reasons why money has any social power in the first place is because of the organization of production of labor to make commodity exchange, the commodity of labor, and the state allowing for the stability of this property relation (labor) to occur that gives money social power. Such a society that produces for exchange/profit, must do so through the means of production being privatized; and as a result gives money its social power to command and people.

It is this along with wage-labor, labor-power, the state, abstract-labor, and other things that the law of value holds place and results in the subject-object inversion of capitalism, and brings about the antagonisms of capitalism.

Am I getting this right? The law of value results in the subject-object inversion in which commodities, money, capital subject people to their will, that springs about the social antagonisms and class struggle? It is the result of symbiotic relationship between production and exchange that causes this?

A brief history of Neo-Liberalism

The New Imperialism

test
anarcho-capitalist

Bump

That's what Posadas thought
“Nuclear war [equals] revolutionary war. It will damage humanity but it will not – it cannot – destroy the level of consciousness reached by it… Humanity will pass quickly through a nuclear war into a new human society – Socialism.”

I want to read Capital. Should I read Proudhon before?

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DAILY REMAINDER THAT UNIONISM IS THE NEW WAY TO COMMUNISM

What did he mean by this


Huh.

You bastard. Land is at least an original philosopher.

No. You should read "What is Property" because it's interesting, funny and insightful, but it has nothing to do with Marx's work.

Do you mean syndicalism? Cuz that shit been around m8.

FFS, no epub posting? PDF is cancer.

Bump.

Oh yeah, and Marx was a idealist.

Hegel was a naive rationalist!

Bumperino.

Why did Schopenhauer hate Hegel so bad? Any writings on it?

Can I read some of the Frankfurt school thinkers without having read Freud yet?

Sure, but read Civilization and Its Discontents first anyway. It's only 80 pages.

He managed to extract the meaning behind Hegel's obscurantism and correctly identified him as a mystic.

Who should I start with ideally? I was thinking Marcuse.

Start with the Greeks

haha ebin

See, this retard didn't start with the Greeks, and now his mind is so full of fuck all he can talk in is memes.

Sad, really.

start here, then advance towards basic theory (Greeks!)

No one posted Papa Wolff yet?
digamo.free.fr/wolffresnick12.pdf

Why is it that more modern Marxists are often ignored on leftypol? Like Poulantzas' new interpretation of the nature of the capitalist state, for instance.

Cause le revisionism meme, and the neo left meme and class reductionist meme.

Can someone explain how exploitation, and crisis occurs? If the laborer is being paid for less than the value they create from their labor power, how is that value they produce measured? If a TV costs $500 to make, and $250 of that is the cost of dead labor/capital, then the other $250 is the value/cost of the labor, but the laborer himself is only paid a margin of that lets say $50? Naturally over time, the reduction in the socially necessary labor time of the commodity is reduced thanks to increased capital being invested, and the profit margins begin to decrease. So now a TV costs $200, and $180 of that is the dead labor, and $20 of that is the living labor, thus the surplus-value extracted is a lot less, and this is how crisis occurs, no?

No, I don't think that's where crisis occurs, but rather it has to do with the fact that as more and more labor becomes dead labor through reinvestment and automation, and the workers get less and less share of the price of the commodity because for one, automation is a kind of capital since on paper the capitalist paid for it, so by their point of view they wouldn't automate if they couldn't get more short term profit out of it. The problem is now that more money is now going to capitalists than workers, and capitalists spend far less of their money than workers.

Here is where the contradiction and crisis occurs. When suddenly the capitalists can't get a return on investment because the demand for their products is gone thanks to workers having less money to spend. This creates an enviroment of risk for further investment, so instead of spending their money on commodities or more capital they put it in banks, in safes and government bonds. Keynesian economics solves this crisis by having governments invest using the lower interest rates to pump money back into the economy. But the problem with that is the government would have to invest enough that the entire total economy demand of workers is enough that they start spending on commodities again at a rate that suddenly makes the economy seem less risky. When this was tried in the great depression it only worked once WW2 happened and economic output was forced to sky rocket.

It's not a meme. You can't even talk about anything, if you don't have the same definition of words.

There are morons out there who believe that Socialism is Instant Communism (someone needs to icepick Wolff for this).

Revisionism is cancer.

This is why the left can't win.

Sending people to fight Capitalists is good.

But what about telling them that they can't use weapons and should fight unarmed? Not to go all Enemy of the People here, but this is not something that should be tolerated.

[citation needed]

When and where?

Did you watch his Socialism for Dummies?

Nah, I just watched his video and Wolff doesn't say that. He just doesn't consider the USSR as having achieved socialism.

I'm quite certain he did go on about Socialism in 2nd part, right before he started talking about his definition of State Capitalism.

Either way, would you mind summing up his definition of Socialism and why USSR wasn't Socialist?

I can post his definition from Class Theory, but it would take several pages.

I think you're thinking of a stagnation in gross profit rather than profit rates. If the ROIC is becoming marginally slimmer every year then the growth begins to stagnate, and workers start getting laid off. Anyways, I'm pretty sure crisis leads to gross profit stagnation and into a depression.

From my understanding, it's because of the USSR not having workplace democracy and calling it socialism when instead it was state capitalism. As for what constitutes Socialism? Wolff was pretty unclear, for most of his lecture, he was trying to disassociate socialism from "big bad gobberment", but didn't really give a clear-cut definition. I'll have to watch his second lecture then I suppose.

Well, while you try to realize what Wolff meant (hint: having managers = Capitalism; but Wolff never says it directly, because that's obvious nonsense), I'll post what Wolff says about Lenin and State Capitalism - as if Lenin could've shared Wolff's ideas, or those of Milovan Djilas (~1950) or some other post-Trotskyist. Even Trotsky was vehemently against this idea of State Capitalism, despite being exiled and effectively enemy #1 of Soviet bureaucracy.

But Wolff needs some authority to support his theories. So he uses Lenin.


Transcript from 2nd Part of Socialism for Dummies:
20:10 / 1:10:51 - So Lenin said "We've created State Capitalism". What does that mean?
20:20 / 1:10:51 - It means the State functions just like any Capitalist …
20:40 / 1:10:51 - State officials function as Capitalists. And what that means is …
20:53 / 1:10:51 - that Capitalism can be either private or state.


Except, Lenin never actually meant what Wolff says. State Capitalism was what it literally sounded like: regular Capitalism (old bourgeoisie) acting under state oversight.

For example:
Session of the All-Russia Central Executive Committee, Apr 29th, 1918
- Report On The Immediate Tasks Of The Soviet Government (by Lenin)
> … The situation is best among those workers who are carrying out this state capitalism: among the tanners and in the textile and sugar industries, because they have a sober, proletarian knowledge of their industry and they want to preserve it and make it more powerful—because in that lies the greatest socialism. They say: I can’t cope with this task just yet; I shall put in capitalists, giving them one-third of the posts, and I shall learn from them.

Does anyone see "state doing things"? I don't.

And then there was War Communism (which is 100% Capitalism in Wolff's book, because bureaucrats everywhere), but Lenin never refers to it as such. He starts speaking again about State Capitalism when NEP (and concessions to foreign capitalists) are being introduced. And it is again about working with bourgeoisie under government oversight.

Report on the Tax in Kind Delivered at a Meeting of Secretaries and Responsible Representatives of R.C.P.(B.) Cells of Moscow and Moscow Gubernia, April 9, 1921
> … In no circumstances must we forget what we have occasion to see very often, namely, the socialist attitude of workers at state factories, who collect fuel, raw materials and food, or try to arrange a proper distribution of manufactured goods among the peasants and to deliver them with their own transport facilities. That is socialism.
NB: Lenin specifically claims state factories are already Socialism. STATE DOES THINGS, yes.
> The incredible havoc, the shortage of fuel, raw materials and transport facilities allow small enterprise to exist separately from socialism. I ask you: What is state capitalism in these circumstances? It is the amalgamation of small-scale production. Capital amalgamates small enterprises and grows out of them. It is no use closing our eyes to this fact. Of course, a free market means a growth of capitalism; there’s no getting away from the fact. And anyone who tries to do so will be deluding himself.
And a bit later reinforces the point:

Quite clear what State Capitalism meant in Lenin's time. And yet Wolff tries to present it, as if Lenin believed state bureaucrats to be some sort of government capitalists.

And a quote from Wolff's article:
truth-out.org/news/item/31567-socialism-means-abolishing-the-distinction-between-bosses-and-employees
> Yet precisely what Lenin had named state capitalism remained the Soviet industrial reality; indeed, Stalin extended state capitalism into Soviet agriculture.

See what he does?

Except USSR had a lot of workplace democracy (especially under Stalin). Workers could easily kick out any manager they didn't like.

Wolff doesn't like Central Planning - it's Capitalist in his books.

Hm. It seems to me that Wolff is throwing the USSR under the bus in order to present the concept of socialism to normies. I don't know how I feel about this.

But didn't the state choose the soviets? The workers could kick out their current manager, but if the state just simply replace the previous manager with a new one, doesn't it defeat the purpose? The state is acting as a vehicle for the proletariat sure, but with examples like the Great Purge, and Khrushchev/Gorbachev revisionism, it is clear that the vanguard is not immune to flaws or corruptibility. That being the case, how do I know that the workplace democracy the USSR proposes is real?

Every single time.

Anyways, "Contending Economic Theories" by Richard "The Revision Himself" Wolff and "Foundations of Economics" by Yanis Varoufakis

tbh fam I think you should read the first bits of Grundrisse. It's really fucking weird but it's where Marx lays the ground-principles (literally Grundrisse) for critique of political economy, specifically capitalist production as a two-fold process of production and consumption and therefore exploitation in the same twofold manner.


As I said to the poster above, I think the relationship between production and exchange is crucial to understanding capital so I think you're basically right.


this is very helpful thank you, I had the conception of state capitalism as, the state as the investor and manager of capital

Hm. It seems to me that Wolff is throwing the USSR under the bus in order to present the concept of socialism to normies. I don't know how I feel about this.

Richard Wolff proposes more of an anarcho-syndicalist form of management whereby day-to-day decisions are made by majority vote.

It's a later idea of post-Trotskyism - an attempt to make the hand of theory fit the glove of anti-Soviet propaganda (even new class got invented!). Predictably enough, it got popularized immensely as a vaccine against Socialism.

Once you lose your ability to measure Socialism, you cannot to divide the grand project of "make Communism happen!" into a bunch of smaller, accomplishable tasks. You have to get to Communism in one big step - which is flat-out impossible. Hence perfect excuse for eternal fence-sitting: we are for Socialism, but it's crucial that we will not attempt to actually implement any of it.

Personally, I consider USSR to be litmus test. While it was far from perfect, it was still a big step in the right direction. You can make adjustments, you can revise things. And you'd better - because even Bolsheviks weren't too happy about it: they could do only what they could. Any modern state with (somewhat) educated population should accomplish much more and fare far better. But it's very unlikely for any Socialist that simply labels Soviets "Failure" or "Capitalism" to have practically applicable suggestions.


In traditional ML (and Marxism itself, in my very opinionated opinion; even orthodox Trotskyism supports it) State Capitalism happened in USSR only twice: NEP and latter part of Perestroika. Any excesses that happened in post-Stalinist USSR - however wild your imagination is - were simply criminal activities (which is why improved legislation/power structure is crucial for any new Socialist state), rather than the change of economic Basis.

Yes. Except I have problems understanding how that would work IRL. There is a reason why any Socialist state that lasted more than a week shifted control of it's industry into state hands (including Catalonian Anarcho-Syndicalists): IRL you have one giant industrial enterprise, rather than a bunch of small shops. Which is why centrally planned economy is so much more efficient - managers of different portions of your enterprise are not sabotaging and blackmailing each other.

Wolff claims that some kolkhozs (co-ops) became private Capitalist, while others were - wait for it - Communist .
Quotes from Class Theory:

> Communist [class] gave way to capitalist class structures inside those collective farms. Some became state capitalist farms: state officials appropriated the surplus of agricultural wage workers on state-owned land. Others became de facto private capitalist agricultural enterprises: a subset of the collective appropriated and distributed the surpluses produced by the rest of the collective on the collectively owned land.


This is hardcore revisionism on several levels (why can you use your own terminology, you fucking asshole), but what I really have problems with is the explanation on how to have proper "Wolffo-Communist" surplus control in industry. It seems to boil down to "no managers allowed".


Not really, no (complicated question, because political structure significantly changed more than once - USSR was a transitional state, after all). Either way I was referring to the worker collective - everyone who works there.

Let's get kolkhozs (and co-ops in general) out of the way first: in co-ops workers (farmers, generally) elected whoever they wanted (which is how occasional kulak-run kolkhozs happened - literally every post of any importance filled with counter-revolutionary elements via "voluntary" voting). That's a majority of population in Stalin's time, but - see above - can still be "private Capitalist" for Wolff.

As for state-run - what purpose is defeated? Having no managers?

Workers could keep kicking out managers until they've gotten the one they were satisfied with. Which is why the first reaction was to try and get to the bottom of their problems, instead of simply sending another manager. If workers had a specific candidate they wanted, I'm quite certain he would get the post.

That said, I don't actually consider this solution perfect, it's just Soviets needed to keep counter-revolutionaries (actual armed uprising-level of counter-revolutionaries) out of power, while industrial factories required educated specialists and those were very rare during early USSR. Thus Party turned into an employment agency.

>why can't you use your own terminology

Feel suspicious, because you might've gotten wrong the reason of why USSR is thrown under the bus.

Look at the titles of his books:
"Class Theory and History: Capitalism and Communism in the USSR" - 2002
"State Capitalism in the USSR? A High-Stakes Debate" - 1993

If you ask me, this is not some concession to the public. This is a core of his post-Marxist ideas (which were born in a deeply anti-Soviet atmosphere of American academia). Imho, Wolff has been anti-Soviet since the very beginning - since the 80s at least ("Rethinking Marxism" and so on), when USSR was still alive and kicking.

And now, when the public wants anti-Capitalist ideas, Wolff feeds public the ideas and dogmas which (in my opinion) were never actually designed to work - because the only implementation post-Trotskyism got IRL (and was realistically expected to get) was being part of propaganda machine: "(Soviet) Socialism doesn't work", "(Soviet) Socialism works badly", "even if Soviet Union somehow works good - it's because it is actually Capitalist and is no different from our state, so there is no need for revolutions here, folks".

If anything, Wolff is not moving away from USSR, but shifting towards it (a very tiny bit, if any).

Yes. It was obvious from the get-go. Which is why some of us (hint) identify with Stalinism that was shifting Party out of it's leading role, once the main task of establishing the Socialist state was accomplished.

But that's not the focus of ML. Primary idea is not the specific form democracy should take (it should be some sort of direct democracy), but the amount of power that gets invested into this democracy. Primarily - economic power. And the way it get used, of course - industrialization comes first.

First and foremost, "workplace democracy" and "state democracy" are slightly different things. All of your examples (I can add a few more) are concentrated around the state-level of democracy, not workplace.

Second, but no less important point, is that nobody proposes Soviet democracy in it's canonical form anymore. It is is kaput on several levels. Not only USSR itself is no longer with us, but we have significant social and technological advances that allow us freedom that was impossible for USSR in 1936. 80 years later information flow is not longer restricted (Soviet regions were semi-independent due to weak connection to the Moscow) and we can have extremely cheap and fast polls.

There is literally no reason to implement state-level Soviet democracy in it's canonic form. Imagine cyberdemocracy or what have you. Soviet method of state governance of 21st century is still out there.

Apologies for making you uncomfortable and thank you for "Contending Economic Theories".

how do you feel feel about banning the Left Opposition? I don't hold a strong position here. Did it happen because the workers in most cases were actually unable to carry out production? Also I understand Taylorism and Party managers are called for in a war-wracked undeveloped country in the midst of more war and sabotage.

I've also heard purges were directed at adventurist/corrupt officials? what do you think of Mao?

I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. 1918, 1920s (first/second half), 1930s? Even in 1950s there was Yaroshenko, who might be considered LeftCom.

I'm quite certain workers were capable of working. What do you mean exactly? Ti

Taylorism in USSR was about organization principles, not replacing worker democracy.

I'm guessing you are talking about early USSR, but I can't actually understand specific situation you are referring to.

Which ones?

I very carefully don't think about him anything specific. To properly make judgements one needs to actually research the topic. I am quite certain that Dengist China (i.e. modern) is revisionist, if that's any help.

Bump.

Is it ok to understand a philosopher based on books that summarize thier philosophy. I can't understand Hegel at all but I'm reading a summary of his work and I think I'm getting it.

So the reason why the lower stages of communism will be capital-esque is because it won't be able to properly account for people's needs via the state, and the differences between productivity's of workers?

Ayy LMAO!

yes

Since communism is rooted in barbarism and nihilism, I would say your right. It is designed to corrupt and ruin civilization. It is the dark reflection of the industry and community that capitalism is built upon. Remember that globalism is rooted in communism.

COINTELPRO PLS GO!

communism is the uppermost level of human civilization, you barbaric spooked dipshit

3/10

Not even near Satan-poster tier.

Anyone have actual works on fascism, and not socialism, or works that deal with debunking their ideology?

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watch zizek

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I wish I'd saved the Big Other fanart now

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Soviet cinema was superior cinema.

I already downloaded this, I'm planning on reading it tomorrow, thanks doe.

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So the big other is some abstract, or real figure who presents to us the real order of things, and requires us to keep up appearances for it, so it can perpetuate itself?

Okay so what are you supposed to say when your friend starts naming the jew as being behind it all?

Bend him/her over and fuck him/her until he or she agrees. Duh.

Whoops forgot to take off my shitposting flag.