Automation, Universal Basic Income, and Race

you're retarded. my point is AI will be better than humans at almost every job. But your post is unrelated to my question.

Enjoy your bullshit/

if you don't understand that automation will be taking jobs en masse you're just ignorant to the point of retardation. your opinion is retarded

Now guess what will then happen with their goverment issued gibs? And why high skilled people would work if most of wealth they produce goes to parasite class?

You don't have to, you could search the catalog like a non brown person.

Seriously, fuck off back to reddit.

Universal Basic Income is a worthless band-aid "solution" being pushed by kikes to keep their capitalistic ponzi-scheme running while at the same time further enslaving goyim by chaining us financially to a government provider.

Okay, reported for kike shill, then. It's common knowledge that your bullshit is Marxist lies,

Automation replacing many "low skill" jobs is a farce. The moment you work as even a tool & board bitch laborer or mail sorter you will understand the thousand ways things can and will go wrong, in addition to how cheap a human is. Replacing a human is easy, replacing a robot is surprisingly not. If you don't believe this, go work for a major corporation for a bit, anything that can be avoided in favor of cutting costs will be, including essential maintenance.

Automating a task is easy until you do that task.

EVERYTHING MINIATURIZED IS SATAN

fair enough

They day the Democrats realized that they can import voters to create a one party country is the day they stopped caring about the working class.

America is on track to an official one party country due to demographics thanks due to the democrats.

With the upcoming implementation of universal welfare income they can further put a stranglehold on the voters. I wonder if the democrats sold out the blue collar factory workers to start the beginning of having Americans depend on welfare to secure votes.

No they wont. They will spend their time doing drugs and get into other degeneracy. It will turn everyone into niggers.

REPORT + HIDE + SAGE

elaborate?

Social Credit is the answer to automation of industry. We shouldn't be punished for the productive capacity of our nation being increased, we should be able to reap in the rewards of our progress as a people.
What good is it to strive for more if you only hurt society in doing so?

By pumping purchasing power into households, with the amount directly related to the amount of goods produced, we can allow our people to consume the goods that our nation has produced. We shouldn't be forced to accept either the Capitalist or the Communist mantras that ultimately lead to a select few at the top exploiting our people, and making progress a bad thing.

As a National Socialist it is clear that there is no better means of allowing our nation to prosper from its successes than to eliminate deflationary finance, nationalize major industries in cases where it wouldn't seriously hurt production - so oil and mining would be nationalized - not average stores - we must not fall into the mistakes of the Bolshevik fools, and finally we must ensure that everyone has the ability to work and help produce more.

Every new innovation is built off the back of the last one. The last innovations were made by our people. Therefore, the new innovation would not exist without the work of our people. You shall reap as you sow - we must be allowed to keep the fruits of our nation's labor, and not let it fall into the hands of Jewish financiers be they Capitalist or Communist.

I'm okay with basic income, but I don't see why there couldn't be a work requirement.

The program could be integrated with volunteer organizations. Put in a few hours a week picking up litter or as a citizen patrolman. There's always work that needs to be done.

Why? Robots do it.

It will be totalitarian state with centralised law enforcement, no such thing allowed

Robots don't pick up litter as efficiently as people, and even if they did, they would be expending resources unnecessarily to do so, for something that could easily be accomplished by people. Not to mention how the exercise and socialization is good for people.

Citizen patrols are great because they give people something to do while reducing the cost of law enforcement. They are widely used by many local departments and I see no reason why they couldn't be expanded to fulfill a work requirement.

With robots you can maintain the brush on the sides of the expressway,and pickup the trash on a daily basis.

There are automated garbage trucks now but that's a separate issue from litter cleanup. It requires a certain level of dexterity and agility that is not cost-effective to automate when you can have people do it for free.

UBI is good so long as you keep the borders closed, and if anything automation incentivizes closing the borders, because the "but we need immigrants for jobs" argument no longer works. Automation makes the economy zero sum where previously it wasn't, so every extra mouth to feed adds no labor, and therefore is redundant. Nationalism will probably increase in an automated society, because each group gains nothing economically from other groups, as robots can do everything more effectively, and unlike what communists think, internationalism and communist ideals would decline.

Retarded lolbergs mistake it for gommunism of course, but a UBI actually blows communism the fuck out, since it tamps down class warfare and prevents seizing the means of production from being a solution to anything. UBI is also compatible with a market system. Class collaboration between NatSoc computer scientists and the displaced white workers.

I do agree that it can't be implemented now, because of incentive reasons and you'll see that the math doesn't check out too well, whereas a more heavily automated society will have higher GDP to support it.

Some kinds of economic traditionalists on this board oppose it, but the problem with automation is that it's coming whether you like it or not. You'd need global control to stop it being an advantage. This means that if Jews are in power, they will control it, so we can't deny things like automation and the necessity of UBI, otherwise Jews will propose things like communism instead, and technological unemployment will allow the trick to work. It's basically the third position debate again but for the later 21st Century. Lolbertarians might lose us this one by undermining populism if we're not careful, and the Luddites might help them. Never fall into the trap of romantic idealism when fighting for the concrete interests of your race.

As for the dysgenic effect. A National Socialist society would only supply rations to people with good genes, and would be using eugenics to rid the population of shitty people even after we've removed the muds and Jews, so in the end it wouldn't matter. Especially if we get into things like embryo selection. Of course, that's if we get control back from the Jews, but you already knew that. Automation is kind of the end game stage, because robot soldiers with hyperspeed reaction times vs the electro-chemical synapses of humans equals the devastation of any humans in a war scenario because robots get inside the OODA loop of human forces through higher thought speed and less accommodation for squishy parts in combat vehicle design (Drones jets that can pull maneuvers that would make pilots black out for example). The race that wields the full power of automated technology will win the final victory and spread out into the stars.

We at least have some space where none of these things are going to be an issue for a few decades, but we should probably start planning now.

Polite sage. Minor "reddit" spacing for clarity and emphasis.

I think no net immigration would work fine. Encouraging the best of the best to join us is good for us. When crafting an immigration policy ask your self, would this policy allow Elon Musk to have immigrated.

No net means we allow the immigration (weather granting citizenship or temporary residence) roughly equivalent to the number of Americans leaving the country.

This would completely remove natural selection and ruin humans

youtube.com/watch?v=LwHAK_HJO0I

While one immigrant adds no useful labor, the bill for feeding, clothing and housing it is paid by the taxpayer. Furthermore, the increase in crime allows for more legislation. And, more importantly, it brings one vote for free. That is until their Sharia party is strong enough to take over, but by then the politicians responsible for bringing them in will be able to retire in luxury in a foreign country thanks to some very generous donations.

You CAN'T remove natural selection.

If you assume a disaster scenario, it wouldn't ruin "humans" it would ruin that portion who are susceptible to degradation when times are easy. Those who prepare and still act as if times are hard even in easy times will steal the future from the degenerate. The future belongs to those who show up. In other words, those who have kids whose kids survive and so on, and if the majority become so weak that some disaster wipes them out, then the best will emerge from the rubble. It'll probably be the amish or some other noble cockroaches.

At least assuming we continue our current course towards disaster without averting it, and assuming natural selection doesn't proceed on some higher plane than humans which is a bit too politically incorrect to discuss even here.

Maybe I was being a little hyperbolic.

Yes, but they are going to have a harder time selling that to the general populace unless they set up a dictatorship and preclude democracy entirely.

Elon Musk is a meme.

UBI is the result of a fallen empire, this is not something that people are just going to vote for…they are systematically being forced towards it and it has been a gradual yet steady process going on for years.

When your governments started bringing in foreigners, it was to kick-start slavery. Not slavery ran by governments, but ran BY foreigners, slaving their own people. They underpay their own people, because they have no grasp of western culture. This results in a devalued wage, which when combined with a lowered bar of skills to met demand, crumbles the system (think about how many children are currently avoiding school, or not wanting to go to school).

There are already reports of this form of slavery popping up through-out the Anglo world. This has been done intentionally, not to "replace" people but to devalue what it means to "work for a wage".

This is removing all form of passion that is currently installed in workers, by making them no longer trust in "work first, leisure second".

The exact same thing happened in Rome during its fall. A period of decadence occurred (most western areas are going through this right now), and then suddenly no one wanted to work anymore.

Their solution was to provide housing and food for the people, installing a sense of "leisure first". This lead to people volunteering to work, and when combined with events through-out Europe it eventually lead to the Renaissance.

UBI is the very thing that would kick-start people volunteering to BE the ones that implement automation.
It's not designed to only work if automation exists, we already have slavery alive and well in our nations RIGHT NOW.
The next Renaissance will be a technology-driven one. Art will focus on the divine of what man can be when they are no longer burdened by the robotic nature of working low-skill jobs that turn them into inhuman machines that eventually burn out after a small period of time.

The only reason it hasn't been implemented yet, is that history is repeating itself. The pendulum has to swing backwards first, allowing the government just enough time to reverse the immigration policies once there's enough foreigners to devalue the wage.
The intention is not to replace the working population, it's to persuade them to adopt a new system.

Trump will most likely succeed at everything he's promised…but that STILL won't fix much in the long run (just enough jobs to keep his nation from a rate of decline that is too fast to maintain).

As the empire reaches its darkest days, mans view of woman will return to that of dualism. It's already peeking through on websites such as imageboards. We have orbiters worshiping the love of their "waifu's" and collectively voicing that which they think is most virtuous and beautiful, while simultaneously in the very same forum these men still understand the woman's inferiority and their likeliness to that of wanton pleasure seekers..which is why copious porn and cam-whore material is so strongly present.

They aren't just consuming porn for the sake of degeneracy, they are seeking out that which encompasses a realm where they imagine delivering pleasure to multiple women. This would continue onwards as women sing their words of "love" (eg. attention seekers on /r9k/) and it would carry on through a digital Renaissance.

Prove me wrong.

Those who make children win, regardless of degenerate or not.

Automation is good for the executive and the shareholder, it is terrible for the employee and the consumer.

It's bad for the consumer because the average consumer is an employee.

Welfare is dysgenic. Basic income is massive welfare.

Humans first. Buy human.

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You mean esoteric fringe-tier?

I dunno man, I feel like the future of the consumer will become something far different from what it is currently.
Notice how kids are getting more and more familiar with dumbed down, over-simplified things such as mobile apps?
They would pretty much become the ones who are more than happy to press those app buttons to make money, because what they "consume" would be far different than what consumers currently seek out. It would be something that can't be automated, something different to that which the current populace consume (which can very easily be automated).

If you automate things, and make the interfaces for those things resemble mobile app games, people WILL happily get paid money to use that. Their brain is conditioned to enjoy those kinds of things.

I just don't think the executive/shareholder argument would apply anymore if people didn't have to pay for rent or food.

trucking and related jobs is the single biggest employing field with like 1-2% of all jobs and its going to get largely automated very soon
as there is already unemployment, what will these truckers do? get a uni education?
in the future there simply won't be enough jobs for everybody, but that doesn't have to be the end of the world
now remove all other jobs related to driving like taxis/uber and buses
all these people need to pretty much get an higher education because most low level jobs can and will be automated eventually

the automation is what produces this wealth mostly
the high skilled people will still have a higher standard of living compared to the people living on basic income, which at the beginning will be very limited
but as a larger portion of the workforce becomes unnecessary, the UBI can probably be increased gradually
reproduction probably has to be restricted in some way, as there is always a certain carrying capacity even in a situation with zero workers needed to run things (the earth is finite)

well what is your suggestion then?

digging a hole with a shovel is easy, but doing so by hand would be retarded
doing a job for the sake of it is also retarded if there is a more efficient way and even though "robots don't pick up litter as efficiently as people" which might be true at the moment depeding on the context, but it certainly won't be true forever
at some point there just won't be any meaningful work left that anybody could do without extensive education
working and surviving need to be separated in peoples minds, work should be a way to enhance your standard of living or self-fulfilment

what do you mean?

Nothing will ever be as efficient as a human. Period.

That's never been true or solders would of road into battle on the backs of other solders instead of horses

Scotland (surprise, surprise) wants to enact a UBI. They want to give a Living Wage to one and every pony of £8,000 per year or so.

My question is how the hell can a nation possibly afford it? I've never seen any credible economic proposals as to where the money is going to come from. I mean of course one can tax millionaires 90% of their earnings, but guess what, they're just going to fuck off and move somewhere else where the State doesn't take all their money. Same with Corporations.

You're describing a nightmare world where the only things humans still make is shit like this, where humans are too stupid to build anything requiring skill.

That's no kind of future for my son, user.

You are correct yes, however what if we only allowed it to be applied to more primitive things like food and clothing?

If automation is progressing as slow as it seems to be (woo super expensive robots that do nothing except try to open doors and fall over), surely its destination will be left to us to decide, correct?

So if the empire turns to hell, and people end up volunteering to work…just say you'll only volunteer for certain types of work. Force the industry to either shape up or ship out. If no one wants to work because they're being forced to make a world of consumerism rather than something more divine, surely that would have power behind it?

Shitty people will have to be sterilized if they want a basic income. This is the most straight forward solution by far. On a similar note, I think everyone should be productive in some capacity so I don't quite agree with the concept of a UBI. A UBI while having to do something productive like rebuilding our infrastructure is a better idea, although some people say that working for welfare (deemed "work-fare" I think) is akin to a form of slavery and thus immoral; an argument that makes no sense and I just don't understand it.

I'm quite sure some parasites would have no problem with that anyway, it's very likely that many do not wish to have children and simply want to stay busy, but have less stress about basic living.

To put UBI in a different perspective, think of it as flipping a switch in peoples heads.
Instead of work for money, you now work for duty.
Instead of food and housing being your woe, it's now your leisure and your woe is simply doing the best that you can to help your nation.

This is precisely what it is to be used for. Western infrastructure already IS fucked. The tech industry is royally fucked for starters (if you've been apart of that at all you would have noted all the software that "just works" being phased out in favor of very broken alternatives that require far too much effort to achieve a simple task), and both big and small business are screwed and unable to compete with other parts of the world (we all know that China is consistent enough in its ways to undervalue western currency in a significant way).
Also the tech industry has far too many flaws that make it easy targets for attack. If people had a home and food to keep them happy, many would engage in fixing that kind of problem.

I can guarantee you that a good majority of the current workforce is currently suffering from the problem of "you pretend to pay me, I pretend to work". Everyone knows that taxes are fucked, and wages are also fucked, so that's why they're all on-edge 24/7. The reason they aren't able to pin-point that reason why, is because they're blinded and lead down false paths chasing various conspiracy theories instead.

The reason they say this, is they think it devalues the person doing the work. It does not. If you want a far better example of slavery, look at what happened during the fall of Rome, just before they implemented UBI. They had ACTUAL slavery happening. People being under-paid, even though there was established amounts agreed upon. This was bypassed through bribery, usually by foreigners slaving their own people and weakening the wage established by the empire.

You see, foreigners are far less knowledgeable about concepts such as fees or licenses. So they get tricked when they enter a western nation. Their own people who have been there long enough to figure out what can be abused, will then force them to work under-paid and lie to them about the consequences of not accepting that amount.
You can't fix this either. It will keep happening for as long as these people realize the only punishment they get given is a slap on the wrist, and no deportation.

Automation isn't progressing slowly, it's progressing slowly relative to a single human lifespan.

People think that speech recognition progressed slowly because it took 60 years to get Siri. It took about 4.4 billion years of natural evolution for us to get that capability.

If you wait until you think we're fucked by this to recognize it's a problem then you're definitely already fucked. We are probably already fucked.

My mistake, I worded that terribly.
What I meant to say was I believe automation isn't being approached by enough people. It's a lot of hype, but very few people actually contributing to it.

I feel as though whatever pace it currently has would greatly increase if the current problems in technology were solved. No one wants to automate things fully yet because they realize how utterly unreliable most of our computers are and especially ones that are interfaced with dangerous machinery. They're a nightmare.

I meant artificial lifeforms/AIs are the master "race" instead.

finland has actual good education; probably the best in the world
it's also cold as balls there, and they're mostly white
so of course UBI will work in Finland
America, however, is full of shitskins and liberals who will need to be deported and/or kicked in the ass before this could ever work here
I'm for it, but not yet.
So, how? Well, I really don't know, but we're gonna have to do it, or people are going to die in droves. That said, we'll reach singularity before too long so it may not matter.
The luddites on this board won't admit it, but AI will soon be able to do pretty much everything better than us.

One paragraph so I don't get accused of shill spacing.

Oh. Well yeah we already know that. Look at Tay AI for instance.
I think the big question of that is when it will happen.

2070 was the prediction for human brains to be matched by AI. I think we currently have the equivalent computation power of insects and mice?

Do you want to simulate a human brain or match it at given task(s)?

That determines whether you're talking about the 2070's or 1960's.

Also I firmly believe that the final "master race" AI will be a combination of German and Anglo mindsets combined.

have fun socializing while picking up shit when it's -20c while being in a bad mood.
You brainwashed retard!

you fuckin delusional brain-dead retard!
how about giving people "something to do" as in making them READ and THINK about how wretched their lives are, and how they're being used as cattle?

go to hell.

Say that when The Lord returns in the skies and you start wailing and weeping like a dying cat.
You pathetic brainwashed fool.

first post is always a shill, no exceptions

This OP.
It HAS TO BE universal.

Here is why:
1) Current "welfare" system is shit because it traps people in poverty (you get more benefits being poor than breaking through poverty).

2) A UNIVERSAL basic income would replace this mess by giving everyone an economic foundation.

3) The problem outlined in part 1 (above), is that the current mess is that the system tries to determine who needs it or not.

Just give everyone their monthly shekels and be done with it. The moment you try to "tinker" with the UNIVERSAL part, you end up fucking the whole nation (and its people) again. Even if you succeeded in making it more fair, the gains will be almost insignificant.

Do they have the necessary paperwork or not? (to answer your question, answer this)

This question is not to you but to whatever bureaucracy is in place.

I believe that God created a universe where evolution occurs. Best of both worlds, imo - you look retarded right now and I still believe in heaven.

Go lick some nigger feet with the pope.

i doubt driving will be replaced, fully, within our lifetime. maybe as a supplement like Volvo's (and many others) automatic cruse control, collision detection, lane departure warning/correction, etc will end up being standard, or legally required, on all vehicles later on.

I would still work because I want to continue eating "ceviche" every day.

I hate how this place has been swarmed by white trash that haven't even traveled farther than 1 mile away from their home.

you sound like the fags that said, "not in a thousand years" when asked about going to the moon back in the 50s

You'll have people bitching about self-driving cars but if they're safer then insurance rates will shut them up. 3 years.

did you not see the word fully? preplaned routes and such things will be first, cities, mail routes, main freeways. rest of it will be slow going due to shit roads and a million other little variables the car will have to take care of all at once.
it's always the last few steps that take the longest in such projects.

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that is false even today, and has been false pretty much as long as we have had tools
the tools are just getting more sophisticated

at least in finland it has been calculated that enacting an UBI that replaces all forms of welfare would actually be cheaper than the current systems
you could also get rid of a shitload of bureucracy
granted, at this point the UBI would be about the same or a bit less than minimum welfare you get
but today in finland the social services pay your rent, pretty much regardless what it is up to a point
with the new system welfare bums have to probably move away from the best spots with highest rents, which I think is just a positive thing

What? When both the muscles and the brain is inferior to the machine, what is left?

Fuckin' Luddites, man. Every generation.

You know, just because an occupation does not exist presently does not mean it never will.
And just because an occupation currently exists does not mean it needs to exist forever.

Universal Welfare is going to continue the concentration of power (wealth and money creation) in the hands of the factory owners and the bankers. It will relegate the poor into generational poverty, with no way to get out.

Fuck off with this idiotic self decapitation.

You don't seem to understand what general purpose AI mean for human jobs.

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You don't seem to understand that your claims have been made before.
They were wrong then too.

UBI just like every other wealth transfer system creates a huge enslaved proletariat ruled by a small fabuloysly wealthy elite.

Fuck off.

What new jobs do you see becoming available, exactly? All i can see are a shitload of robot programming/maintenance jobs. And those will become redundant too once AI improves to the point where it can do that itself.

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You see where maybe you're being a little silly here, right?

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Great logic. I guess we shouldn't worry about white people being replaced in their own countries either then, that'll probably just fix itself.

that does not follow

Oh Really? Do you mind to give a source ?
I'm certain general purpose AI is a fairly recent reality.
And most of the scientifically litterate world only understood that this was the real deal when AlphaGo beated the world champion 6 months ago. So I have a hard time believing any reputable person in the past could have forseen something similar without this elements.

The reason why this is an extraordinary achievement is because Go is a game where the only explanation a human can give to why a move is better than an other is because it "feels" better, which makes it impossible for a human to program a good Go bot.

Yet alphaGo won, do you know how they did? They didn't build a program to play Go (like I said no human can do a good one), they made a program that can learn anything by watching, it can be driving, playing video games, Go, chess, trading, poker, shitposting…

They took on this list of infinite possibilities what was considered the hardest for a machine to do, it was Go, and they proved the world the machine is already better than the human at a game where the 3 main skills are intuition, feeling and imagination.

Now for a skill to be machine learnable it needs only 2 things:
-Their must be tons of data easily readable by a computer, of people exercising this skill.
-The machine must be able to know easily if the result is good or bad.

And that's it, any job you can think that require skills machine learnable, is a job that won't exist in the near future.

Now try to make a list of skills that aren't machine learnable, and see how many you can get.

economicshelp. org/blog/6717/economics/the-luddite-fallacy/

archive.is/cJDB9

Unskilled will mean sub Ph.D (real ones) in a few years, I've done a bit of math teachings in my life, not everyone is made to do research, the vast majority of people are social conformist, and will never be able to understand things on their own. Expecting a near 100% Ph.D society is utopic.

Man, you take some big leaps in your reasoning.
It's gonna be ok, user. No need for neetbux for all.

not infinite possibilities, just way, way, way more possibilities than there are atoms in the observable universe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_and_mathematics#Legal_positions

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe#Matter_content_.E2.80.93_number_of_atoms

so a number with 80 digits vs a number with 170 digits

how is it going to be ok?
are you implying everyone will be capable of getting a masters degree in a stem field? because I seriously doubt that

if we expect people to work for a living and there simply is no work they are able to do, they will starve (or first riot and then starve)
UBI is pretty much inevitable

Are you implying everyone will need a masters in a STEM field? Because that's just some unfounded alarmism right there.

Resign yourself to the fact that you will have to work. Accept it. Abandon these fantasies of living off other people's money forever.

I was not talking about the list of Go moves, but the list of skills that are machine learnable (but in reality you are right there are not infinitely many skills too), they chose Go beacuase it was considered to be the less computer friendly skill.

Are you insinuating there exist low skilled job that can't be replaced my general purpose AI?
The only one I can think of is Teacher, and it still requires a Master in my country. Yet this job will soon disapear soon, but for another reason : khan academy and the likes proved you can't learn without a school and teachers.

typo

Are you suggesting that the only jobs that will ever exist are those that either exist right now or ones that you think might exist?

People have been making dreary predictions similar to yours for about 200 years now; they haven't been right yet.

No, I'm saying the only jobs (actually existing or not) that can't be replaced by a general purpose AI require skills learned in STEM master or Ph.D .
I'm also saying that most of the population will never be able to get such degrees, even if they were threatened at gun point (and yes even whites).

I'm saying you're wrong… just as wrong as everyone else who has ever said the things you're saying since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution.
Time will tell.

Which argument?
Almost no low skill job in the near future?
Or most people even in white population can't get a STEM degree ?

Confirmed never doing trucking. It's more than driving around a big rig. You have to check loading the cargo, change the wheels, and do the paperwork as a driver. It won't get automated, even if the truck drives itself it'll still need operating crew to do these.

I already live in a country where working is not really mandatory for survival (I'm not sure if this will last however) and I'm studying in a stem field
at some point you pretty much will,maybe not masters level right away but the minimum requirements will just get higher as time goes on, all the low skill jobs will be gone at some point
at the moment the biggest hurdle is computer vision, but that is just a matter of time

general purpose AI is complete overkill, even pretty basic AI with advances in robotics will make much of low skill jobs obsolete

can you tell me why those related things just "won't" get automated?
also you don't need to automate everything 100%, just decrease the amount of people necessary to run things which means a lot of truckers will be out of a job (lets say you need a tenth of the people you needed previously, thats still a huge amount of people)

I feel its also worth mentioning that 100% of jobs don't need to be automated for there to be a crisis. If even 25% of current jobs are automated, on top of current unemployment, we'd be talking societal breakdown.

why wouldn't humans just compete with robots for jobs? what makes you think people wont work for less just so they can feed themselves?

(checked)
Because those things need higher levels of intelligence, not merely chatbots. The other obstacle in automating trucking is not technical, but an obstacle in the law. In a case of acident manufacturers should hold responsibility and it will financially fuck them over. In other worlds, they, along with truckers will oppose automation as long as possible.

They compete even today. If the salaries are high and the cost of automating is low, companies will automate. If there are a fuckload of people working for pennies, companies won't even think about making robots.

Robots will win every time. Robots don't need to eat, or sleep, or take breaks. Robots dont need a salary, just cost of electricity plus the original purchase. Robots get cheaper over time. Robots can be upgraded, switched out. Robots have no labor laws. Dont be naive.

You're the naive one. Robots don't need to eat, humans do. Third worlders already work for pennies a day in sweatshops; it's not like those sweatshops can afford huge, difficult to manage proprietary machines. Maybe in 100+ years, but not in our lifetime.

If people are not getting paid for work they do -> They do not have money to buy things that where made through automation. -> Economy explodes

Robots are also inflexible, and the workplace is a chaotic hellhole that only gets worse the farther down the totem pole you go.

Fuck off retard. You didn't even think about this for one second.

Sweatshops will be phased out as autonomous factories replace them, with minimal employees overseeing massive amounts of machinery, located in the first world. Adidas is already planning on bringing its factories back to Germany, but bringing little to no jobs back with them. I'm not a CGP-style sensationalist that thinks this will happen overnight, but eventually automation will become more and more efficient, to the point where it won't be worth the shipping costs, or the unskilled overseers in places like China. China has in fact expressed serious concern over this point, which is why they're trying to restructure their economy to withstand the slow but devastating advances in automation.

But it's not just sweatshops either. Food service, transportation, and shopkeeping (cashiers, etc.) are also in critical danger. Many fast food and franchise restaurants are already phasing out a full waitstaff/cashiers in favor of screens. Truck drivers will be hurt badly by self-driving cars. Amazon just showcased a new technology they're pushing to grocery stores/supermarkets to eliminate the need for cashiers entirely, just scan your phone, pick out your items, and walk out, and it will charge your account automatically. 2 or 3 Loss Prevention officers are cheaper than an army of cashiers in a place like Aldi's.

This *is* a problem. Will it be devastating? Maybe not, but to not even address it is a mistake.

yes they will, but after it is conclusively shown these trucks are safer and cheaper being automated, economics and the will of non-truckers will trump the relatively few truckers

at some point, even if labour was completely free its still better to use automation as its not simply about the costs
its also about the quality, speed, methods that humans are incapable of doing etc. the list goes on

depends on the workplace
chaos is not good for business, and the chaos is partly there because of humans being humans
if you get rid of them completely, the rest is just an engineering problem with gradual improvement
humans don't get better, robots do

did you even read the OP?
the problem is that UBI is inevitable, but without restrictions to reproduction it is also extremely dysgenic

UBI is a shit idea and has been discussed to death here. You want to make sure everyone has productive paid work, fine. But to give people a living wage to sit on their asses is the dumbest idea I think I've ever heard.

That's exactly the problem UBI try to adress, the economy need people to get money, but the economy doesn't need people to work anymore, so we must give money on an other criteria than employment, or we face economic collapse in 2 decades at best.

what is your counter-suggestion?

I'd even say the conomy need people NOT to work.

Clearly.

They already live on welfare. It doesn't change anything for niggers.

Not him, but he literally mentioned full-employment. This is a common idea in third position politics.For instance I support getting rid of all welfare/handouts/government aid/social security (excepting disability) and instead ensuring everyone has a job. We have infrastructure to rebuild, children to watch over, a military to keep staffed, hungry to feed, etc., etc. Why should we pay people to do nothing, when instead they could be helping the nation?

(Also I favor an ethnostate in which to do this)

The problem is that the checkout line becomes the bag check line, which sends the really nasty vibe of "we're expecting you to be a thief".

This doesn't even go into shit like maintaining the shelves and general customer service.

If you deal with customers directly, that's a massive source of chaos, and if you get rid of the customers you get rid of your money.

What are: skills

Not really, no more than people check bags in a self-checkout area. LPs would be more focused on security cameras, and keeping the few stockboys rotating the store to deter thieves.

Again, I'm not implying that we're going to see a people-less store tomorrow, but if every store in the country cut back its employees by 33%, we'd feel it.

yes, you can get more employment from massive infrastructure overhauls, but this is only temporary and this is a field which will also need less and less people in the future as technology progresses
getting rid of most women in the workforce back to child rearing and taking care of the home would also help massively, but the amount of available jobs will still shrink (this would help massively as well though for a time)
I guess you could dump the rest of the people in the military, but isn't this kind of welfare on forced work? what then when we get robots that are way cheaper and more efficient than grunts?

all of these will help, but only temporarily
also UBI doesn't mean people will do nothing, the state could come up with activities which isn't work in the traditional sense, but people would get something positive to do and basically get social credit in the eyes of others
I just don't think forcing people to do these things based on the threat of death from starvation is a good way
if you just sit on your ass, society will look down upon you (just like now)

no need for a checkout line, and even though you need to maintain the shelves etc (at least for now) it will still decrease the amount of work

well people already order shit online, and when you automate the processing of orders, warehouses and transport of the goods there is much less needed labour

yep, this is the point
low skill jobs will largely disappear, and the meaning of "low skill" will just get higher and higher

The examples I stated were just ideas, there is and always will be work to do. There will always be ways to improve our communities. It may not be that such work will be 'profitable' in the traditional sense, but for the forseeable future there will always be work to do, and we should expect those that are in need of assistance to do such work.

If we get to a magical utopia in which there is genuinely no work, (not just 'no profitable work'), to do, then we can talk about UBI.

So you futuristfags have been saying since the fucking 50s, hasn't happened yet and this is just philosophy wankery until it does.

so forced work just because
sounds like communism
an UBI would allow people to pursue their dreams without the fear of death from starvation which would probably result in a new golden age of science and art

Yes, I'm sure science and art produced by people who live on a UBI and do nothing for themselves will be top notch. If you want to look into that future then simply look at all of the useless shit be churned out by the glorious STEM fags that have no real world experience with any of the shit they are designing and building.

The expectation that you contribute to your community is not slavery. Besides, you're the one sounding like a communist with your anti-work. If we can achieve, technologically and civilly, the reality in which our nation is fully, self-sufficiently autonomous to the degree that every man, woman and child can live in comfort without having to lift a finger, then I will court UBI. Until such a time, funding sloth and acedia is degenerate. Look at NEETs and Hikkis, are they great artists? Great scientists? No? Why do you think that is? Surely they're living their UBI utopia? But they're worthless, lumpen dregs. Work is not only essential to the community, to the nation, but to ourselves. When we are idle we are degenerate, listless, purposeless, depressed. Work, in the name of self-sufficiency, supporting one's family, and towards the betterment of your people, is invigorating and honorable.

"Towards a world without work" is a noble direction to hike, but for now let's live in the real world.

...

Fuck off.

It's like you skipped the whole first paragraph. Desiring a world without strife, without pain, without suffering, without work, is a noble idea. But it is not the world we live in. If, through technology, we find ourselves in such a world, then I may revisit this, but for now work is not just a part of life, it is essential to both the community, and to the individual.

I'm not a "Suffering is virtuous" type, but I'm a fierce realist, and I recognize that laziness is not honorable, or healthy.

can you give me some examples of this useless shit?
people doing non-menial jobs are not motivated by money

they are not living under UBI, the welfare system actually disincentivizes working because if you work just a little, you lose the welfare
so you have to go from doing nothing → full time job
under UBI, all the work you do is just extra money
people can also start companies with much less fear of losing everything because even if you fail, you won't starve to death

I don't understand why you think that UBI would mean that laziness is good or acceptable?
it just disconnects work from survival
you can already live doing nothing in the west under welfare, an UBI would just remove this welfare trap, make the system much simpler and fairer and remove a fuckload of unnecessary bureucracy

Anything with electronics in it for starters and how about the entire appliances industry. Almost forgot anything heavy machinery because I'm pretty sure the fags have never even driven in a parking lot let alone had to do basic fucking maintenance on the shit.

what the fuck?

There is work to be done. There are people that need to eat. This is a simple equation really, give the people work, give them income. This promotes socialization of all citizens and uniting the community. I haven't even mentioned crime. Idle young men become criminals, it's as simple as that. Removing the financial desperation may lessen the effect, but you do *not* want bands of out-of-work young men roaming your streets. Granted, in the white ethnostate crime will be far lower regardless, but it's still an issue.

And it goes without saying that in anything other than an ethnostate, welfare states don't work. Liberals love talking about le nordic countries, but those only worked because of how homogenous the nations were. Look at Sweden now, and you'll see it's welfare system is falling apart due to migrants.

is it work worth doing?
if nobody is willing to pay for it then it seems just work for the sake of work, keeping people busy
why not let them pursue their interests?
if some people become antisocial retards then you can always deal with those specific people (gas them for example)

This can actually work with the white population. Europe was functioning very well in therms of productivity, happiness and the sense of civic duty with a strong social safety net until the shitskin invasion.

This is something the Amerifags can't easily understand because their net was always full of useless breeders.

Pretty much every system works with a white population. You could probably get some sort of techno-communistic Hobbiton society to function and be productive with whites.

The answer is: Kill all niggers. Deporting them is fine too. Of course, that seems a long way off, if ever. We will see.

Asteroid mining. :^P

But seriously, everybody will become NEET master race. Of course, that doesn't mean nobody will work: Some will for religion reasons (like the Amish), or for fun.

And once we start colonizing other planets and moons, there is so much a spaceship can/needs to carry, plus the technology must by necessity adapt to the new environment.

You're fucking full of shit

#1 magic robots that can do much of anything, don't fucking exist and aren't coming anytime soon

#2 giving people free money would very shortly cause runaway inflation,and job drop out,with no magic robots to replace them

implying this won't be done with robots

or for a higher standard of living

Yes, basically. Hitler's Germany became a powerhouse in no time when they marginalised the jew and the shitskin.

why would people drop out of jobs? its universal basic income
notice the word basic? it will be quite low in the beginning

If basic income is 10k and you work fast food making 12k you would only be making 2k for a years work.

Unless they give it to everyone with no cut off,I don't think they could do that.

that is the whole fucking point man
everyone gets it. period
regardless if you are a millionare or a bum
you could change the tax structure in a way that makes millionaires basically pay for their UBI with slightly higher taxes so net income stays the same and people getting welfare would also get about the same amount

the point is simplification and removal of welfare traps

* the same amount the got before i mean
possibly lower, possibly higher depending on what kind of amount is decided upon

If someone out there is going to implement automation, it is going to be me. And the people like me. I am busting my balls studying this shit, at the university, formal education. Zero social bullshits, all practical and useful subjects.
And let me tell you one thing. Once the engineers actually set this thing up, WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY SHARE? No.
Here is what is actually going to happen:
Worthless subhumans will be wiped out. No one is going to tolerate you around. No one is going to give you handouts. Nobody gives a shit about your.. art, opinions, hobbies, politics or whatever. You are worth nothing, you deserve nothing, and you will get nothing.
Technical people control all the economy. Technical people top all fortune 500 companies. Technical people run all the private sector non-welfare business. Technical people make all the missiles. Technical people are only one who can put strategic resources such as uranium to use. Technical people dominate even trivial bullshit such as what is popular culture, more people visit social media bullshit then they do museums and galleries. Politicians negotiate thanks to the missiles and nothing else. Law makers make laws using police and nothing else. And police enforces law using (simple) weapons and nothing else.

Trough force, which is the only true and legitimate arbiter, and which technical people have and others do not, non-essential 'people' will be wiped out. Special snowflakes arent really all that special at all. Instead of sharing the fruits of our labor, we can just exterminate the useless and keep it all for ourselves.

I genuinely cannot tell if you're using 'technical people' as a euphemism for jews. Because that's what would really happen.

Dream on, kid. The globalist jews control all that. They'll replace you with ten Indians for half the shekels. Please pay attention.

you don't need to exterminate anyone, just make procreation a privilege and not a basic right
if the mostly useless people die off before senescence is cured then the problem will solve itself

You should try to be aware of scientific news if you work in a stem field, it's good practice.
Just to make sure you understand things well, there was no breakthrough in robotics recently that will have any meaningful impact on society, it's the AI field that experienced a revolution 6 months ago.
Basically what we thought could only be possible in 50+ years, is possible right now, there are hundreds of machine learning companies being created everyday that are starting to train AIs to automate parts of biggers companies.
Engineers have no place in this revolution, only mathematician, data scientists and computer scientists that specialized in machine learning.

Yeah sure whatever, but all I am saying is, as someone who might be implementing automation, I sure as fuck am not going to let others benefit from MY work, and all the people around me, who are really the only people capable of implementing total automation, are thinking among the same lines.

We FUCKING HATE artsy fartsy good for nothing worthless retards. We fucking hate """managers"""" who think they can manage anything, but have no basic clue what goes on in the production. We fucking hate marketing retards, for marketing is not even real, its all bullshit. Psychology? Absolutely the same.

No man. No. Let me tell you. Let me tell you something. We see your textbooks. We see how there are no axioms there. How nobody pisses blood in order to prove anything. We see how laid back everyone is. We see how in non-technical universities barely literate people graduate. We see how everyone drinks and does drugs 24/7. AND THEN, AFTER ALL OF IT IS DONE, AFTER ALL THE TORTURE WE GO TROUGH, THEY CALL OURSELVES OUR EQUALS????????????? """""""OH WE ALL HAVE SAME LEVELS OF EDUCATION""""""" """"""""OH WE ARE ALL EQUALLY EDUCATED""""" """"""OH WE ARE ALSO SCIENTISTS""""""" """""""OH WE TOO WENT TO SCHOOL, JUST LIKE YOU XDDDDDDDD"""""" """""""OH WE HAD TO DO SOME HOMEWORK TOOOOO XDDDDDDDDDD"""""""""

fucking hell my blood boils
technical peoples should start pointing those nukes not at each other, but on these GOD damn worthless bastards who didnt even put 1/1235123512345134512345234523453451234512315 the work we did, and yet reap the same rewards

yes im mad
people do not know the thankless pain we go trough, so you can be thankless parasite and also have your phone/computer

I'm getting some rodgery vibes from this post
are you mad at people studying liberal arts, and if you are, the implication that they reap the same rewards is simply not true
most liberal arts degress are completely worthless

this is the fucking arrogance I am talking about
they all talk about automation, but nobody ever stops to think about people actually doing all of this work
nobody takes into consideration our pain
nobody cares what we think about it
nobody gives a shit about us who could be out there doing fuckall, who could also not need to prove anything axiomatically, who could also kick back and learn economy or psychology or any of the bullshit that requires highschool math tops

I can train my god damn fucking dog to do your job, my fucking dog can give psychological diagnose without having to prove it, my fucking dog could run the economy if all the technicians had to produce everything, and by God my fucking dog is going to be doing all those things instead of thankless non-essential non-technical scum

You seem a little autistic. There's not gonna be a world full of only STEM men, y'know.

nigger have actually achieved anything yet, or are you just a freshman with an unwarranted superiority complex
everything you are studying is based on the work of others
the rewards you reap are that you generally have a much higher salary than non-stem people

You're a fucking student, faggot. You still believe in fairytales. No, your work doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the (((shareholders))) who decide if you can afford hookers & blow or not.

You're young and the world looks like an oyster - but it's not - you'll have to drop your E-skillz and draw some real blood to prevail in the near-medium future.

You don't seem to understand, the monkeys will riot once they starve, and they'll kill people like you who don't.
And don't forget the monkeys are in charge of the system even if they didn't built it. You don't have a choice, you give them enough to survive, or you prepare for a war that'll destroy enough things for everyone left alive and their children to work for a good century.

yeah I thought the same, I thought 'sure I must be the odd one, the weirdo to think this way' but the more I got in contact with my colleagues, the more and more I noticed this sentiment
Its not just me, with every differential equation solved this sentiment increases among the only people who matter when we are talking about quality of life, technology, modern medicine, modern anything

nope, it is definitely not just me

One man with a machine gun can cut down 50 people in one second. Three ships of Spaniards wiped out entire continent. Few Dutchmen and Englishment with bayonets ruled over near infinite fields of niggers. Few British canons forced millions of unwashed rice niggers to open trade.

Numbers are just a small part of the equation, almost irrelevant in comparison to other variables such as technology.
So no. Unwashed masses, no matter how numerable, wont be able to do shit.
There will be orbital weapons platforms, nuclear submarines, and all the other shit everyone takes for granted, and the non-technical "people" who do not have to prove their work works will be purged from this planet.

If you believe our civilization can withstand a major civil war where nearly all the population participate because they gonna die anyway of starvation, I'm just gonna assume you are an actual autist and stop replying to you.

I wrote one scientific paper about computer interpolation when working with digital photography.
It was not good enough for the industry, lab software already used much better algorithms, and it will probably never be applied anywhere, but hey, it was original. Professor gave me a nice grade. The whole point of it was to exercise and understand, improve analytical skills, try to solve a few easy problems, get a taste of what graphic cards are all about.

I know its not much but its a solid start. Rome wasnt built in a day and all that. One day I might build something that will be really useful for a time.

Given to you, I guess? The owners are just waiting for a techie like you to make their move. Top kek. Lay off the games.

(checked)
So are the soldiers getting purged too since they don't have the same or similar technical abilities as you have?

The thing is, if people like me get pissed and decided to go home, there will be none of such things. This is the difference between essentials and non-essentials. They cant do without us. While we can do without them.
Nothing is ever given, giving is a nigger mentality. If I built it myself, who the fuck gave it to me?

If by soldiers you mean American soldiers, then yes. They are worthless good for nothing welfare queens. Their whole purpose is to shill American military budget. A welfare program. None of them ever saw any combat. None of them ever had to kill anything. They march in heels to please liberals, while the actual wars are being fought by mercenaries and missiles.

How do soldiering violate my principle? If you cant prove your work, its worthless. If you cant prove your quite literal shitstain in a gallery is art, it's not. If you cant prove your marketing or psychology or management works, it doesnt.

If a soldier never saw any combat, if he is a fucking civilian pen pusher parasite who couldnt make it in the private sector and is funded by taxpayers, he is no soldier.
If he got to a major and never had to tell a regiment what to do or blow up tanks or I dont know, that's no soldier. If he was never shot at, he isnt a fucking veteran.

well good, but tone down that autism
you realize there could be a lot of people that don't go into science simply because the pay is shit for example and there is just not that much funding
giving people the choice to pursue their dreams and interests without the fear of becoming desolate might start a new golden age in science
I might be mistaken but wasn't a large part of the natural sciences before the last century conducted by rich aristocrats who just did it because it interested them, not because of profit?

Not every time. Sure for some it was done out of hobby, but most of modern medicine and military technology and even consumer crap like electronics came directly out of fear and pressure and that kind of stuff.
So you have both, you have just a pure curiosity, rich people who like puzzles, but you also have people who piss blood because of greed or ego. And the work they do is real, but the benefit they make is stolen.
This is why most scientific research isnt even published, you encrypt is hard enough it takes 20 years to crack it and you go straight to USA/China/Russia/whoever and demand gold or a mountain range in Switzerland for it, and give it up after you got all the stuff you wanted first.

Seriously paranoia is real, go to any physics or chemistry university, they all work in groups of 4 because that's the limit for the Nobel prize, if the team was larger you dont get a Nobel.

Uh, I'm losing patience with you. I was never this delusional as a youngster.

You are not irreplaceable - especially as a computer tech.

The jew owns the IT and your future prospects - (((Google))), (((FaceBook))) and (((Microsoft))) appropriated the search engine. social media and OS market - they did not invent it.

i'm kind of amazed by how retarded the majority of the people on this forum are. like seriously. why is almost everyone here so stupid?

u mad?

you sound like an indoctrinated pig. or a cow or something. kill yourself

source?

do you guys just like to repeat things you wish to be true, but aren't? you sound like SJWs.

you are clearly underage and don't understand that you're never going to own anything. ultimately you're always going to be owned by richer people.

if you faggots have a better idea of what to do when robots and AI take the vast majority of people's jobs, tell me a better idea. if only 10% of the population can do something better than robots and AI do it, then how is the remaining 90% going to survive? no one would employ them. got a better idea?

I never really thought about it, but how's this for an idea:
Instead of sharing automation with the world, how about you simply dont? How about you build your own fortress somewhere innawoods, become a high tech feudal overlord with roboserfs, and tell all your colleagues to do the same?
Since you can watch what everyone does on every computer ever connected to the internet, and since they already build computers with hardcoded kernel spyware, you can monitor if there's anyone out there also researching this, and just contact them before its too late, tell em there's a new world order coming up and tell em there's a place for them in it if they stop.

Once everything is set to nuke the unwashed masses, or handle them in some other way, doesnt matter, once unwashed masses are handled, you replace them with automation.

...

These things are already there. And you might already own a product that came from there.
By innawoods what I really meant is just that it is hidden from government/taxation. Because trough taxation, you get all these non-essential, non-technical people we can do without.
Instead of a mass industrial scale automation that pays for everyone who couldnt make it in the private sector, people who can pull it off just pull it off for their own needs, not letting the government thieves redistribute anything.

Practical example would be no more tax money for an art college, or refugees.

The "private sector" is captured. There's no "innawoods". I can't explain it any simpler than that.

Anyway, good luck with your E-innawoods-project .

But wait, there's more :^)

fugg

This. It's one of the reasons I can't stand this site anymore. The weird thing is that most people here aren't dysfunctionally stupid in the low IQ sense–they have a decent command of the English language–it's just that they seem to have zero grasp of how anything actually works. It's almost as if they've never set foot in the real world.

For example, this whole thread is full of hot, pseudointellectual garbage. But you can't tell any of these autists they're so far off base on even a basic understanding of topics like AI, software and hardware automation, or economics because they will sperg for hours and eventually call you a Jew.

The only people left on 8ch are literal basement-dwellers with delusions of grandeur.

You fucking newfag lurk more.