FED RAISES RATES

Nigger please, this move is necessary considering Obongo kept the funds rate at effectively 0 for his entire presidency (and doubling the currency supply). The only thing that would really fuck us is if China decided to devalue the renminbi again.

Do you even fucking trade?

Kikes are going to destroy the economy and blame it on nationalism.

DOW DROPS 100 POINTS AFTER ANNOUNCEMENT

I think it's going to happen before inauguration day. I just want January 20th to hurry up so Trump can safely be in office and can actually fix shit. The wait is killing me and the thought of kike interference is unsettling

it's much too late

the stock market is booming

everyone has hope for the future

Can some econanon drop in and give a layman's explanation of what this is and what it means?

EVEN MORE DROPPING

Nah, they'll blame it on Trump and then Populism. There's really little nothing Nationalist about whats going on other than rhetoric. People are dumb, but I don't think they're that dumb. I may be corrected in time though.

FIRE SALE!

.6 in a couple of hours. That's not good.

...

The nigger’s last day in office will have him sign an executive order that forgives all student loan debt (and car loan debt).

MARK MY FUCKING WORDS

Time to buy a car EH

This is literally exactly what the market was predicting to happen.

.6% off of all time highs, you economically illiterate faggot.

Yes, the market is in a bubble, but the Fed doing exactly what it was predicted to do is not a happening.

nobody can pay the interest. this is a terrible move and will accelerate the collapse. theyre just setting the narrative that the economy was fine under obama.

Yes, I understand that the debt is entirely unsustainable and can never be paid back. However, my point is that Yellen did exactly what she was predicted to do by about 80% of the people out there, before the election. She didn't make a partisan move (Like I was also predicting she would.) She's still a Jewish cunt, but she did exactly what she said she was going to do if Clinton was elected. This is the kind of stuff that makes us look like we don't understand what is going on.

If you want to see an interesting chart with respect to rising rates, look here: htt p://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=ZB&p=d1 Interest rates on the 30 year note have been rising in the open market since Trump was elected. Even still US treasury auctions have been oversubscribed by about 3:1. The markets right now are acting the weirdest I have ever seen them act.

no he wont
then he wouldnt be able to blame the economy collapsing on trump

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like much.

He'll sign it on January 18th so he has a day to be smug.

REMOVE CENTRAL BANK

AGGGGHHHHH FUCKING KIKES

It's not a lot when you're talking about $10. It's GDP of entire countries when you're talking about $1.3 trillion.

You're a stupid nigger. Now might actually be a great time to buy Dow

you can't buy the dow you nigger

Buy DIA you turbo nigger.

You can invest in it though.

Let's see - GDP of the USA is what, $18tn per year, right?

So a little bit of maths is pushing the rate up by 50%

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but nevertheless - this is a 50% increase in the payments made to the Fed, correct?

Which translates to 50% made by the banks which loan out from the Fed?

So, you're looking at a, worst case scenario, 50% increase in what new home buyers are paying on interest.

Which in turn would lower the amount of new home buyers.

Which lowers demand.

Which affects everything - new loans slow down drastically, spiralling downward like a dradle in a shower cubicle.

...

you have no idea how much such a small hike could fuck up the entire global economy

This is how 2008 and 1929 happened. They purposely lower interest rates and create mass debt, so that then can increase it again, crash the economy, and get bailed out by the ZOG government at the expense of the people.

FOUND THE KIKE

and buy up assets at bottom prices when everything crashes, it's been happening since the kikes got in control of the money system

"Small" hike?

When you're dealing with 18tn per year, that 50% increase in interest could very easily translate to hundreds of billions lost across the USA simultaneously.

Coincidentally, didn't the Republican party suffer the same thing last time they had the full sweep?

And with the German media playing "Let's hate the Anglos" yet again, looks like things are going in a similar direction.

Sort of accurate, in a sense, except that interest rates for anyone except for banks had already risen before this. Also rates rose from .5% to .75%. Right now on a mortgage your rate is going to be around 4%-4.5% so if that rises .25% it is a much smaller increase than you are calculating. What the Fed specifically raised is the interest rate for banks to borrow money from the Fed, so it costs the bank a bit more to borrow money that it will then lend to you.

No, you have no idea how fucked up the global economy is if a small hike can fuck it up so much.

This is true, but a 0.25% hike isn't the trigger.

No shit.

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. The quoted statement is 100% accurate. By the physical definition of the debt itself, it CANNOT be repaid.

Yeah, I don't know the numbers for the USA, on account of not being American.

I'm well aware that the USA is being pushed downhill with Trump's gigantic legs trying to bolster it.

So it begins, right on time for the January happening.

This IS a major happening. But it will take time, like a tsunami, or the butterfly effect. The ripple get bigger as time passes.

Anyone want to send me a gun and ammo in Brazil, I welcomed it. I am gonna need it, BAD.

No, the fed planned on raising rates in December, and everyone knew that stocks would take a hit when rates were raised.
FUCKING STOCKS 101: THE CALENDAR

Good to know there are still some anons who actually know their shit.

This is what I was asking about. 0.25% seems like nothing, I don't get why it's a big deal.

Also why sage?

i'm talking nominally, if you keep in mind that 5% rates used to be normal and even slightly low, a 0.25% hike is small, obviously it will have a huge effect

The Republicans were still a center party at the time.

Increased interest rate means money becomes more expensive.

That's exactly why I'm saging - this isn't a big deal or an unpredicted event. This is what everyone has expected since September.

If everyone expected this shouldn't it have been priced in?

I wonder if I will live long enough to see empty grocery stores and people trying to eat boiled shoe leather in the United States.

It's pinned. But yeah, it's not a big deal. It's exactly as expected. It's the most important event on the economic calendar, and as expected.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, uh, "expected" doesn't really mean preparation.

Lots of people said 2008 was merely delayed.

That's what makes Trump so important - not just the world he inherited, but the world he will inherit.

If Trump can bolster through this, there will be no stopping it. Communism and all of its variants will be destroyed.

Mods stickied though.

...

It's the fucking economic calendar, retard. THE FUCKING CALENDAR!

- that's why I said 50%, not 0.25%

That is, it's all relative.

this

lots of people who took out funny money may have trouble paying it back

Yeah. Check your Bloomberg termine nal and this hike had 100% probability to happen. Not unexpected at all.

we never criticize, only observe

Mods are niggers and confirmed for not into stocks or economy at all.

A .6% drop off of all time highs in the markets isn't a big reaction - the markets are more reacting to the future projection of hikes - 3 hikes are predicted in 2017.

They pinned it? Maybe we really do need to worry about the mods.

nvm I posted the wrong pic

"maybe"

Current economic and monetary system will crash. It's inevitable.

Nigger zero interest rates for even saving accounts have been status quo for the past 8 years in a lot of countries.

For example I have a savings account with "good" interest rate right now, with 32k euros on it, and my yearly interest I got yesterday was 25,60 euros.

Trump said "Make America Great Again"
Trump did not say "restore the present dysfunctional global economy"
This means: Screw the world, America wins.
This economy of Trump's WILL win.

The thing is that Yellen is doing exactly what she should do if she wants to slowly deflate the bubble and get the economy back to sanity. I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just saying that she did not do anything unpredictable or anything that was designed to crash the markets. If there hadn't been a rate hike this would have been an event, if there had been a .5% rate hike this would have been an event, but a .25% rate hike that was telegraphed for months is a non-event.

and from the ashes a new America will rise

How new are you? Our mods are a Jew (imkampfy), a nigger (therealmoonman) and some shitskin paki (the BO, can't remember his name).

I sometimes wonder if we'll ever get back to a normal banking system, and how that would happen. I know there are alternatives, but how do you convince the normies to change an entire system?

In ancient greek times, the system of government and how to finance it were hot topics for philosophers. Today though, there is a complete static on this topic, and the entire normie population is kept in the dark as much as possible. You'd think that 2008 would have incited this discussion, but it obviously didn't.

KRIEG

fucking hell user, open an account in Brazil and put half of it on it. My "safe" investments get almost 9% per year. It's yuge

If you're in the EU i suggest Bulgaria, gets you 6-7% and it's still in the EU, which makes things a lot easier.

I'll consider it. Issue is accountability, and my country's banks are one of the safest in the world, putting money in third world accounts seems sketchy as all fuck.

Ruger is publicly traded.

The reason that these pay such a high yield is that they are risky. They have to pay a high yield to attract anyone to put money with them.

What impact will this have on gold?

Yes but there's an EU rule that you're covered for 100.000 euros per account in case of a bank failing.

False. For example Finnish banks only cover up to 50k, no matter what EU says.

Don't you understand the fucking falsehoods at play regarding the EU?

Sometimes, but that's still bullshit.

Dunno how solvent that is in the EU, but in the US there's about 1% of the funds in the FDIC required to bail out the $100k accounts.

I hate the way they made industrial capital subservient to the financial sector. I wouldn't give a damn if the kikes at the federal reserve and goldman-sachs didn't make any money off of money borrowed to print United States currency; however, they'll bring the hammer down on industry and the citizenry instead of just taking their medicine. Our currency should be issued debt-free, and linked to the amount of goods produced, so that there is never a deflationary crisis like in 1928 or 2008. Money should not be a commodity in itself, that self-replicates through the lending of interest. Money should merely be used as a medium of exchanging goods.

If people knew how much we were being Jew'd by the financial system; the Revolution would be won by sunrise tomorrow. The non-productive financial sector controls so much money that we could abolish taxes all-together, if these industries were tended to by our Nation and not by some hook nosed kikes. Let me repeat that. Not even billionaires would need to pay a cent if we defeat the deflationary financial sector.

...

Gold will continue to be kept low for as long as it is priced in dollars and traded on Comex. There's about 200x (Last I checked which was 6 months ago) more gold contracts than physical gold on deposit, so it's more or less "fractional reserve gold."

Making it a great opportunity to buy the real thing and stick it somewhere that no-one will look for it.

You do it without asking them. Normies follow the path of least resistance so they'll follow any new system once it's been in place for a year or two.

You can't fix the system unless you end the central bank.

What are rates?
* What do they apply to?
* Who do they apply to?
* How do they impact us?

I'm fucking calling it MSM will cry

EBIL NAZI TRUMP DID IT

Interest rates, the charge you have to pay on top of what you owe on your loans. In this case this is the interest rate of loans taken from the federal reserve, and this impacts the economy because everyone who has taken a low interest rate loan will no longer be able to pay the loan since they're coasting on the bare minimum to get by so the price of paying their loans will exponentially increase but whatever they were doing to keep themselves in the red before has not changed which means they will default on their loans sooner rather then later. So long as Obongo is in office this will mean a Bailout, which in turn cripples the economy.

Not true tho. It's 100k.

rvv.fi/yksityishenkilon-suoja

*Oh right, and the government themselves takes loans from the federal reserve and wherever else they can scrounge up money. Their debt is so huge that the increase in interest past a certain point makes the annual payments to those loans virtually impossible.

Instantly better profits for banks.

I can't wait until the Electoral College throws the final twist up and elects Hillary just after the Fed rigged the market to blow.

Fed rate is what you pay to "buy" newly printed money.

If it's 8% then if you buy $100 from the Fed, you have to pay back $108. (Except banks never really pay this back, they just borrow more – that's another discussion)

Small fluctuations shouldn't effect normal people.

All this newly printed money causes inflation, so if you are a wagecuck and want to grow a nest egg you want this rate as high as possible.

The problem is that the fed has been pouring nearly free money into the economy for years to artificially inflate the economy. At 0.25% you can see how appealing it is to by billions. You only need a 0.26% return to make money.

This "free money" has caused irresponsible investment. If you have trillions invested in ventures that are making 0.26% returns when the rate goes up to 0.5% chances are pretty good you'll have massive defaults.

All the big banks and the government are absolutely fucked if the rate goes up to even 3 or 4% (for reference inflation runs between 3 and 4%)

Everyone is worried that the financial house of card will collapse because a near 0 rate (which we've had for years) is basically an indication that the ponzi scheme is played out and the economy is about to collapse.

This would be an ultimate happening. He would get fucking crucified and rightly so.

He's saying that it would cause the collapse, but it'd be obvious that Obama did it, so it'd make king nigger's feefees hurt.

Hahahahah

Trump has four years to unfuck this including going back on the gold standard and/or blowing up the FED. Hahahahhahah

...

youtube.com/watch?v=sPbjPOgRtyA

Just take the Fed's Board of Directors on a field trip to Guantanamo while an independent agency does an audit, see how long it takes for them to squeal on the others. Or he could pull an Andrew Jackson and just abolish the fed altogether. Now THAT would be a happening to remember.

And its terrible.

It's nothing and long overdue. They need to keep raising so these asset bubbles don't implode.

this.

why arent more of you faggots buying cryptos?

if you have ANY money in a (((bank))), you deserve everything you get

I get that, but I just don't get why this is such a big deal. Is it because investors will go haywire with shuffling money and thus destabilizing the market or something?

We need rate hikes to wash the bad investments out of the market. Right now 'easy money' policies lead to a tremendous amount of misallocated resources. Losers need to fail. Making credit more expensive to obtain allows this to happen. Yes, I believe they've waited this long in order to fuck over Trump, but it had to happen eventually. This bubble has to pop so we can restore order, and I for one would rather it happen sooner than later so we can get back to an economic environment that makes even a hint of sense.

t. Financial advisor, MBA finance candidate, B.A. in economics

There are two possible outcomes of this:

I think the second possibility is more likely, and this won't be anything major to worry about.

t. Econ student

Wouldn't this only pertain to variable rate loans?

Healthcare or Industrial sector funds

What do you think about vid related?
I understand purging malinvestment will be necessary but considering the sheer volume of malinvestment and the size of the bubble we are in since 2008 we might be at the point of no return.

I heard China will overtake the US financiallyin 2018, so probably some of their ching chong money (not JPY)

t. no investment experience

lots of people who took out funny money will never be able to pay it back

...

The two big things are accessibility and mortgages. The market will become less flexible due to increased difficulty to get effective loans for investing. Increased interest rate on the fed means chartered banks wont be able to access their endless wallet as easily. Mortgages have some of the largest impact on civilian spending, and both credit and mortgages going up at the same time because of this means less money feeding into the market.

I am upset they prolonged it during the "amazing recovery" Obama produced, but Trump can swallow this. As it is, their motives are two-faced:

Gold and silver, niggers. The Comex exchange, which trades in pieces of paper with the word "gold" written on them, has seen as many as 480 ounces of electronic gold traded for every ounce of gold metal that has the courtesy to actually, you know, exist.

i've got a bunch of shares in the S&P 500. what should i do

This is why paper gold is trash. Futures contracts are fine when markets are stable, but other gold backed securities are worthless
You're stupid if you don't have physical gold and silver bullion and a well supplied firearm.

Holla Forums should help drive the economy down, now, as quickly as possible so Trump can pull an Obama-style "it was the last guy's fault"

The only people who wouldn't be able to pay in your scenario are the ones that took our variable rate loans. If you had a lower fixed rate it actually becomes easier to pay off your loan because you could loan money out yourself and earn at the new, higher rate, effectively creating a sort of interest rate arbitrage for yourself.

8de6ff is right. My father used to be a financial adviser, and is one of the only economists who predicted 2008. He and I have discussed this topic extensively, even back before I started school. This is going to be like the Dot Com boom all over again. Bad investment leads to companies that can't produce on their own, and eventually, the stupid investor money dries up. There will be a crash like 2000. Not sure when, but it will happen, no matter what. IMO the best thing to do is just bite the bullet.

Nothing. Just wait. The S&P 500 is a business that takes your money and invests it in other companies in order to make a profit, and you can sell your "shares" to get a slice of the pie, thereby potentially making a profit. Those are simplified terms, but basically the S&P 500 will still move on fine as long as GDP is around potential, and it always goes back around potential, except for times when the Fed wants to scare the fuck out of retards. Just wait until another instance where GDP is above potential, because that will mean investment and consumption are up, meaning the S&P 500 value will be up. There's a reason some people use the S&P 500 to store money instead of banks, and that's why.

Take this as proof that, as so many other anons have said already, they haven't rigged anything to blow yet. This was a good move that would've happened now or in 3 months regardless of who won the election. The 'rigging' requires a few more bps.

It's pointless to try to predict when the Judenponzi will blow. It will blow when they, behind closed doors, decide it will blow. Not one day before or one day after. There's nothing stopping them from secretly printing twenty trillion dollars and using it to backstop some hedge fund or bond upon which the entire edifice depends. It costs them nothing in terms of real capital to keep this game going for as long as they want to, but sooner or later they'll "take profits" by pulling the legs out from underneath the entire operation. We're going to need a new dollar.

Haha sauce plz

Dead mystic from 1996. Her other predictions have been pretty accurate

en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Vanga

thank you user

Agreed re: Fed motives. To your other point, I hope Trump builds the wall, deports them all, and the reduction in population and new starts destroys the housing market again (for real this time), and everything that stems from it. Banks, wrecked. Housing, wrecked. Everything, wrecked. Insert phoenix.

How do I leverage my massive wealth ($2000) to take advantage of this?

You just reaffirmed the point you're responding to: yes, they can do whatever they want to crash the economy whenever they so choose, but since they haven't done it, the fix I was refuting isn't in yet. Or do you think raising rates 25 bps was the first domino in an irreversible chain?

buy bitcoin or something

Hate to say it but I would actually scoop some BTC. The timing involved in shorting the market requires too much guesswork and if you're asking in this forum you don't have the acumen to make the attempt.

Invest in material assets or construction company stock.
Even if they don't end up making things, the market is likely to rally around any and all infrastructure companies.

The Jewish Shemitah begins

I don't think we goys will ever hear the starting pistol either way, so to speak.

How will the increasing minimum wage be affected by this? Did they wait for it to increase to offset this bullshittery and make it seem like the economy is growing?

Only construction companies specific to industrial or infrastructure. Home builders are gonna get railed when this bubble pops, for example.

This is correct and what I was getting at.
Go for the guys with glass and concrete, not brick and wood.
I think Trump has a soft-spot for Brutalism.

disgusting

...

Pretty much all loans given to large bodies like the government are variable rate loans.

True, to alleviate inflation risk to the creditor. I thought you were thinking in terms of individuals, my mistake. I don't actually know the ratio of variable to fixed when it comes to personal loans though, that would be some cool data to investigate.

This might not be the best thread to ask but it is somewhat related.
Will deporting illegals affect the housing market and thus the market in general? Will deporting them cause a decrease in demands and cause a drop in price?

because we all know bankers are trustworthy individuals who always keep their word :^)

Yes. Not only would deporting them reduce demand for existing homes & new builds, it would also increase labor costs (from a reduction in the demand for labor) to builders. This in conjunction with rising interest rates (further reducing demand for housing) could bring about the happening we've all been waiting for.

So if i'm too poor to reliably invest in something without dying of starvation what can I do?

Hey!
We are Number One
Hey!
We are Number One
Now listen closely
Here's a little lesson in trickery
This is going down in history
If you wanna be a Villain Number One
You have to chase a superhero on the run
Just follow my moves, and sneak around
Be careful not to make a sound
Shh
CRUNCH
No, don't touch that!
We are Number One
Hey!
We are Number One
Ha ha ha
Now look at this net, that I just found
When I say go, be ready to throw
Go!
Throw it at him, not me!
Ugh, let's try something else
Now watch and learn, here's the deal
He'll slip and slide on this banana peel
Ha ha ha, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?
ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
We are Number One
Hey!
ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
We are Number One
ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
We are Number One
Hey!
ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
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Shrek the Third is a 2007 American computer-animated fantasy comedy film, and the third installment in the Shrek franchise. Like the first two Shrek films, the film is based on fairy tale themes. It was produced by DreamWorks Animation and is the first in the series to be distributed by Paramount Pictures1 which acquired DreamWorks Pictures in 2006 (the former parent of DWA). Chris Miller and Raman Hui directed the film, with the former also co-writing the screenplay with Jeffrey Price, Peter S. Seaman, and Aron Warner. Harry Gregson-Williams composed the original music for the film.

The story takes place eight months after the marriage of Shrek and Fiona in the first film.[2] Reluctantly reigning over the kingdom of Far, Far Away, Shrek sets out to find the next heir to the throne—Fiona's cousin Artie, while Prince Charming is plotting to overthrow Shrek and become king. In addition to Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy, Cameron Diaz, Antonio Banderas, Rupert Everett, Julie Andrews, and John Cleese, who reprised their roles from Shrek 2, the film also features Justin Timberlake in the role of Arthur Pendragon and Eric Idle as Merlin.

The film premiered on May 6, 2007, at the Mann Village Theatre, Westwood in Los Angeles,[3] and was released in the United States theaters on May 18, 2007 (exactly six years after the first film). It was nominated for Best Animated Movie at the 2008 Kids' Choice Awards, but lost to Ratatouille. It was also nominated for the BAFTA Award for Best Animated Film at the 61st British Academy Film Awards. It was the final film in the Shrek franchise to be produced by Pacific Data Images before its closure in 2015.[4]

The film grossed $799 million on a $160 million budget, becoming the fourth-highest-grossing film of 2007. A sequel, titled Shrek Forever After, was released in 2010.

At the Central Park Zoo, Marty the zebra is celebrating his tenth birthday, but longs to see the rest of the world from outside his pampered life at the zoo, believing that he can find wide-open spaces to run around in, like in Connecticut. Marty's best friend, Alex the lion, attempts to cheer up his friend by singing Frank Sinatra's "New York, New York" with him. Still unsatisfied, Marty gets some tips from the zoo's penguins: Skipper, Kowalski, Rico, and Private. The penguins are similarly trying to escape the zoo. Marty's friend—Alex the lion, Melman the giraffe, and Gloria the hippopotamus—realize Marty's folly and try to follow him. The four, along with the penguins and the chimpanzees Mason and his silent friend Phil, eventually find themselves at Grand Central Station, but are quickly sedated by tranquilizer darts when Alex's attempt to communicate with humans is mistaken for aggression. The zoo, under pressure from animal-rights activists, is forced to ship the animals, by sea, to a Kenyan wildlife preserve. During their travels, the penguins escape from their enclosure and take over the ship, intent on taking it to Antarctica. Their antics on the bridge cause the crates containing Alex, Marty, Melman, and Gloria to fall off the boat and wash ashore on Madagascar.

The animals are soon able to regroup, initially believing themselves to be in the zoo at San Diego, California. Upon exploring, however, they come across a pack of lemurs, led by King Julien XIII, and quickly learn their true location. Alex blames Marty for their predicament and attempts to signal for help to get back to civilization. Marty, on the other hand, finds the wild to be exactly what he was looking for, with Gloria and Melman soon joining him in enjoying the island. Alex eventually comes around, though his hunting instincts begin to show; he has been away from the pampered zoo life of prepacked steaks for too long. The group is accepted by the lemurs, though King Julien's adviser, Maurice, cautions them about Alex's predatory nature. King Julien ignores Maurice's concerns and persuades the group to help the lemurs fend off the fossa, who hunt the lemurs as prey. While initially Alex scares the fossa away and is worshiped by the lemurs, compelled by hunger, he later enters a feeding frenzy and attacks Marty. Realizing that Alex is now a threat to them, King Julien banishes Alex to the far side of the island, where the fossa live. Marty begins to regret his decision to leave the zoo, seeing what Alex has turned into, and realizing how hard it is to survive with so many predators around the island.

The penguins, having been to Antarctica and found that it "sucks", land the boat on Madagascar. Seeing this as a chance to return Alex to New York, Marty rushes after his friend against the wishes of the others. Marty attempts to convince the now grizzled, starving Alex to return, but Alex refuses in fear of attacking him again, despite Marty using the "New York, New York" song. The penguins, Gloria, and Melman go to find Marty, but are trapped by the fossa. At the last minute, Alex finally overcomes his predatory nature and scares the fossa away from the lemur territory forever. The lemurs regain their respect for Alex and the penguins help him satisfy his hunger through sushi instead of steak. As the lemurs throw a bon voyage celebration for the foursome, the penguins decide not to break the news that the ship has run out of fuel, and that they are still stuck on the island.

Go to the gym, meditate & pray in order to construct a plan of action, develop a skill or two, and relish the fact that you don't have jew dollars that'll lose 50% of their paper value in due time. Seriously, people will be literally killing themselves over fear, shame, uncertainty related to their investments. You can just relax and drop a line in the water.

Thanks user that's a relief I guess. Recommend any specific skills? Also if I had an older family member who is dear to me, what could I convince them to do with their money to keep it safe?

Movie Scripts > Madagascar (2005)
Madagascar (2005) Movie Script

Surprise!
Alex. Do not interrupt me
when I'm daydreaming.
When a zebra's in the zone,
leave him alone.
Come on. Just wanted
to wish you a happy birthday.
Hey, man, thanks.
Hey, I got something
stuck in my teeth.
It's driving me crazy.
Can you help me? Please?
You came to the right place,
my friend.
Dr. Marty, D.D.S., is in the house.
Please hop on top of my sterilized
examination table, if you may.

Just ignore it. Draw no attention to it.

It sounds complicated but its not, whats been happening is that people have been getting 0% interest loans and buying stocks with them. This is the entirety of the "recovery" after the great recession. If this stops then it becomes clear that the economy never recovered and bad things happen.

I'd either pull it out of the market and wait til it collapses within the next year or two to reenter, or put it in bitcoin for now. No sense staying in the market to eek out the last 8-10% of the bubble just to turn around and lose 35-50% when shit happens.

So I have time to prepare for the happening then?
You're a bretty good guy user, I hope you don't hang yourself when the paper jew croaks.

bitcoin is dumb IMO. The grid could go down, perhaps for good, in a self-defense type situation. The only thing it's really good for is buying shit on the darkweb, that's the market which sets its actual value as far as I'm concerned.

If you have the mind for it I'd learn to code, that's kind of a no-brainer these days. Makes you almost antifragile. If you're young and don't have aspirations for college I'd start learning carpentry or something similar until you have the opportunity to take up electric, plumbing or welding training.

If that happened then all financial investments are every bit as worthless and the only things that matter are lead, bullion, food, alcohol, and hard skills.

I hope the economy collapses tbghwyf. I'm one of the few people who are in a unique enough situation to thrive I'm a situation like that. Burn this shit house to the ground. I just hope the kikes don't torpedo everything on purpose just to name the God emperor look bad.

Invest all of your money in as many firearms and ammo as you can. Quantity > quality in a collapse scenario.

Also buy a shit ton of lighters. They're super valuable if shtf.

I think gold and silver will always be hard currency. There could be some rough weeks, for sure. But half the people are going to die are probably going to die within the first few weeks, with the death rate tapering off once an informal economy can start kicking in.

Gold and silver would only have speculative value.

what kind of market manipulation is going on here

Amen.

...

Yep. The key is to be prepared for the end times, but invested in the world as it is.

Agreed.

Couldn't disagree more. Gold and silver are money. Apart from labor-backed currency, they're the only thing that can be money, and even a currency like the Rentenmark can still be hyperinflated whenever the kikes at the printing press ever so choose. The precious metals are valuable precisely because they're inert - the world changes; governments fall; paper oxidizes - but they remain exactly the same.

If you're recommending bullion as an investment solution, presumably for retirement & legacy planning, enjoy working til you die.

Good luck with your bond fueled 401k and not getting nigger raped by the government when it fails.

False. The gold standard itself can be jimmied. Imagine you're a 'rich' nation with all the gold, so you buy, buy, buy. Now you've got less gold so domestically it's effectively more valuable.

Hmm, should I cash out my 401k boys? Take the tax hit and the penalty?

Investing as if the sky is falling all the time is just missed opportunity. Do what thou wilt, while all us retarded corncobs spend our worthless but growing fiat wealth on enjoying our lives. Or you know, buy gold and guns when they're cheap and invest the rest in the casino.

Well, trying to keep the amount of gold in the system relatively stable is important. It can be fucked with, but not, I think, as much as something like ZIRP or fuck's sake NIRP can destroy a Western economic system. Jews can empty my safety deposit box at any time. They pick the winners and the losers on the stock market, they decide when the market rips for years on end and when it collapses overnight. The only thing they can't easily get is across my doorstep.

Depends on how much is in there, what tax bracket you're currently in, and what bracket cashing out would put you in. Gotta tax manage. If you have a sizable amount it'd make sense to split the withdrawal over the course of two years.

Small quibble: I'm of the opinion the black wizard marketing jew is what really determines the success of a given stock. Read Propaganda by Edward Bernays if you haven't already. They marketing jew tells us what we need/want before we ever experience the desire. Sure, the regular ol finance jew manipulates a lot of shit but he's not actually driving up Apple stock, sales do.

You really underestimate the value of holding on to gold and silver as an investment, do you?

fuck it, i want this to happen so i can stop paying that shit.

Yes, I do as a matter of fact. Or rather, I estimate it correctly and thus don't give it the value you do. By all means though polish your shiny metal, Smeagol.

This kills the burger

Remember if the burger dies, the rest of the meal dies, too.

You fucking retard. HOW DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO BE PAID WHEN THE DERIVATIVES ARE 100 TIMES THE BANK’S HOLDINGS?!

Reminder that since 2008, an identical law has been passed in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and EU that says if a bank fails it is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO STEAL CASH FROM THE ACCOUNTS OF ITS CUSTOMERS TO PROP IT BACK UP

Jokes on them, i only put cash in the bank to pay bills.

user, thats what banks have always done. Its not stealing because thats literally what banks are designed to do and explicitly in their contract with you, its just that everyone has been brainwashed into thinking its not.

You earn 9%, but Brazil's 2015 reported inflation rate was 9.01% sooo ya. I'm seeing a bunch of savings account rates paying at around 6.2%, which is right in line with earning nothing during 3% inflation in the US.

👌👌😂😂💯🔥

Good thing I use a credit union.

Stay frosty my friends. January happening coming soon to cities near you this coming year of the firecock.

...

AMD.

New cpu, new chipset, new graphics lineup. Stock is still cheap, $10. Will probably reach $20+ within the next 5 months, barring economic collapse.

They did a livestream demo for Rizen Tuesday, 30,000 people in the livestream to watch the demo of a new cpu. That's 30,000 people globally, while midday in the U.S, who watched.

Anyone who didn't know that they were going to pull this already wasn't paying attention. Hell Trump himself said the fed would likely pull this if he won a few months ago.

i would still invest in ruger tbh, i like their guns.

I don't know how to economics and don't know what this means. I am but a simple plebe.

Don't worry, that's just jewish trickery taught as economics.

Remember lads if you're going to invest in anything, make it metals. Not crypto. Metals have physical value, practical use, and aren't reliant on other vectors for access.

Don't buy silver yet though. Gold is low, but Silver still has further down to go before you consider.

Armchair economists were certain that any hike in rates was the beginning of the end for the current global economic system, basically lowering interest rates inflates a growth boom, turning it into a bubble. The bubble we are in at the moment is particularly bad because it was spawned directly from the 2008 market crash, which should have recessed the economy for much longer than it did.

Basically to keep public opinion of obongo high to increase the chances of Hillary winning, the Fed took a broken and weak economy that needed years of bed-rest, and threw it into marathon race with nothing holding it together but band-aids. So instead of a slow recovery period of low activity with a healthy economy at the end, we are about to see a total collapse as the economy tips off the edge of the hilltop it was just forced up and tumbles head over heels smashing every last part of its body until it comes to a grinding halt, completely dead.

This is the reason they are talking about forgiving student loan debt, the only way the kikes can profit is by shorting the collapse with something to reign over in the aftermath. If they don't do this just right its total basic social Armageddon as we know it. There would be nothing left to rule.

Thanks user. loading up the pistol now

Aborted

So on the subject of student debt, how will forgiving the debt play out?

Australian politician cunts are discussing the removal of the $100 note, and an eventual move towards a "cashless society".

RWDS when?

If it's something like bitcoin I have no problems. It's largely anonymous and hard to trace.
If it's credit card then I will find the closest group of people to take up arms with.

Holy moly, that sounds pretty fucked. Do you have any idea how the aftermath would play out? My great grandfather drew porn for trading during the Great Depression, whatever will I do?

You don't get it. That is our current productive means. If the banks failed today, we'd die by next week.
We need slow deconstruction of the current unsustainable industry.

My issue is not accelerated interest and inflation. My issue is that the government does not control it.

Immediately it will ruin banks capital or fuel supply. Meaning it won't be able to guarentee of the debts it already owes.
However in Aus the debt is owned by the government. This will drastically destroy their budget I think.
And then they'll move in to physically apprehend the big 4 banks.
Or shoot their brains out in the back of the head multiple times :^)

Not a chance. They backed their yuan by gold. Gold which the big banks own.

Welcome to the world of the illuminati.

The thing that pisses me off the most, is that physical currency is a big vector for pathogens to infect people, so if it were anyone other than kikes runnig it, a cashless society would be a good thing.

BUT THE JEWS JUST HAVE TO RUIN EVERYTHING GOOD IN THE WORLD, I HAVE ONLY INFINITE HATE FOR THEM

not /k/ approved

...

I bet you do, nigger.

Something tells me Jews do this on purpose.

Thank you guys.

...

It's less about immediate impacts and more about causing adjustable-rate loan markets to collapse over the long term.

When the housing crisis started in 2007, the catalyst was high levels of default in subprime mortgages. These subprime mortgages were themselves overwhelmingly issued in adjustable-rate loans. The overnight federal funds rate had risen from 1% to 5.25% in the course of two years (June 2004 - June 2006), putting upward pressure on adjustable-rate mortgages when it came time for the new rates to kick in with each loan. As a result, people who had taken out loans they could afford during the 2002-2004 low in federal funds rate suddenly could not afford the new monthly payments due to higher interest and were forced into foreclosure. With a spike in foreclosures, houses on the banks' books increased, prices dropped, and more people further upside-down in their new mortgage chose default.

It would be difficult to see such a repeat so soon in the housing market, but any market with a large portion of adjustable-rate loans could easily collapse under similar circumstances. Slowly raising the federal funds rate over the course of several years is fine. Quickly raising it can cause trouble.

Let society burn
I'm ready to purge some normies and rape some stacies

Bitcoin is fucking dumb as fuck

Let me just trade my real life universally accepted American money for internet bux

internet bux is the future m8

NOTE:
That 8% is termed "risk free rate" in the finance sector for a reason. It allows them to negotiate loans with far less risk is the risk of the loan is low enough to confirm a loans ability to pay off the loan of cash from the fed.
It's effectively a game of endless arbitrage with the fed. Our class was disturbed when we learned that. Everything the government taught our parents was a blatant lie.

What about the gold backed bitcoin?
Just to get some stability.

That means we starve user..

Your looking at a worse recession than the great depression.
2 decades minimum unless we meme the economy into 5th gear and implement drastic infrastructure to cope with the backlash like inflation (by eliminating printed cash and implementing a government brand of bitcoin, then making all infrastructure in businesses electronic to cope with the drastic rise in inflation)

Remember - it's all in your head, it's yours. :^)

Are you retarded user?

Only people that take loans from the government (i.e. cash) will be effected.
But that means banks which give capital to individuals and businesses.
Which means if a business has no cash, but needs to supply stock in order to gain cash, they have to take out a loan. When a bank is unable to give a loan (for example, because the fed rate has changes) then that business cannot get a loan to supply stock.
Which means no food on the shelves.
Which means the economy stagnates when businesses can't buy that stock. Which means no money is earned from those businesses. Which means people get sacked or businesses go bankrupt.

But I wonder what happens when some of the debt to banks is bought back

I am happy with ashes.

...

The solution is simple.

Dont let your economy run on loans.

Credit cards are not the future.
Encrypted electronic transactions are.

Read gottfried feder's "abolition of slavery"
I already see a huge flaw, because it seems to think inflation is a manifestation of interest, not the other way around. Interest is to cope with inflation. But I'll agree the banks are fucking with it. We need a centralized bank that can also implement the bartering system into the economy. The barter system needs to be implemented more widely.

In aus we do jobs for cartons of beer :^)
We need more of that, rather than cash. People are frightened of doing that because they think they can't exchange that trade for anything.
But the reality is that, for example a plumbing job, you can ask for an electrical job for an equivalent amount of hours, then when you don't need it, post it only for someone to claim, in return for another favor.

I do think, however, cash loans will always exist.

:^)

You realize the entirety of this system and its parts are made to create an environment for people to depend upon and it is this dependence they use to keep people inside the grid and not outside of it, right?

The longer this goes! The easier it is for them to apply pressure to balance out the rest. So they can continue playing this game until they 'win.' Where they create enemies or problems for you to fear and then become the saviour thereof. This is a slow game that they want to draw out for as long as possible.

The reasoning for this slow pacing is because it is easier to take away liberties slice by slice without any notice. The "years" go by and they abuse the people who usher technology forward. Using them to create newer and more advanced methods. All to establish total dominance of human consciousness and the behavior that causes it to lash out angrily. (When it is cornered like an animal that is, or treated as such.) This will be worked out with drugs, microchips, radiation, frequency manipulation, etc… 'Cause we who want to stick to our own do not fund nor create most of the technology, do we? The kind that is going to be used to seat this control through a deep state society. The future is without freedom nor imagination.

Why else would people be constantly bombarded with Sci-Fi and all these other propagandists wet dreams? You're living the DREAM my man and you will either die to see it through or die to see it end so it may begin anew.

I bet you in the face of this economic collapse they creatively devised! Somehow cryptocurrencies will be our saviour, and then THAT will have to be regulated. They'll coax the monkey's and the goat herders with gibsmedats and allah… Oh wait there is no identity of any kind in this unipolar vision. ONLY DEATH. (Unless you are some kind of faggot.)

But hey I mean good luck with that slow deconstruction of this system set up to bring you and everyone else SLOWLY to complete and utter dominion over their body, mind, and soul. ;^)

If the market crashes they'll blame Trump for being elected.
If it doesn't they'll praise Obama.

Well that just isn't going to do, Jack! That kind of lingo won't buzz with the new kids on the block… You're going to have to make this method of transaction seem trendy, and also make it convenient! When you call it a cryptocurrency? Everybody goes, "BORING!" and turns off their eyes, and ears. You gotta make this thing more convenient and easy to understand in a lot of ways, Jack.

First you need to make people feel they need it and by that I mean you gotta make these suckers KNOW they must depend on it… I have a funny idea you might like, but, it's bit of a doozy. Why don't we inflate the economy and hike up the rates! We will just skyrocket those cocksuckers to the Sun. Then crash the whole damn thing on its face. That will make those poor bastards believe they need a saviour. You know 'cause they will be tearing each others throats out over it otherwise, or killing 'emselves.

Which is my second point, Jack! These people need to see a reason for the change in their current funny business. Just making it trendy and convenient for them to use won't cut it. Not in this jive town with this kind of crowd. Nuh uh, no way, NO HOW… So you gotta make them believe this is the better way. You gotta give your best speech on how this bad boy will cut the grass and save your ass the time at the same time.

People like that sort of stuff, Jack… I know you're not a people person, but, you really gotta know em to use 'em.

Oh and another thing ya turkey legged nerd. Stop callin' it 'encrypted.' People hear that word and think of the boogeyman. Start callin' it 'protected,' and they'll start feelin' safer.

...

The world is absolutely fucking doomed and most people know nothing about it

What's good?

I'd like that very much, sir. How would this be bad? The loan repayments just go to kike financial institutions (hint: the govt organizes the loan, but they turn it over to a 3rd party for actual collection, IE they already have their money back from the speculative collection firm.)

I'd actually spare O'Nigger the rope in this case. Forgiving any sort of loan, in general, fucks over kikes and predatory lenders, IE more kikes.

From a video from a conference given by Richard Werner, the interest rate always follow the economic growth.

Since the economy seems to recover with Trump on the really near horizon, jews are getting on the bandwagon and upped the interest rate.

(vid related in full, otherwise link for the relevent part youtube.com/watch?v=9Um9wR46Ir4&t=33m20s)

Dude do yourself a favor and stop getting your political opinions from 4chan

These people are pathetic ignorant neckbeards who base all their opinions on mindless hate, that's why modern "conservatism" is so appealing to them, it allows them to hate others for their differences while stroking their beards for being smart

Few years ago it was libertarian/atheist shit all over youtube, this shit is the latest craze

If you actually think Trump likes you or is on your side, or is "anti-establishment" in any sense of the world, when immediately the first thing he did was hire all these neocons/good old boys… there's not a doctor on the planet that can help you

Looks like gold and mining sector taking a nose dive. I held some miner ETFs hoping for Trump election price spike but since that turned out dud, sold em all away. Gold price probably falling to retest january lows around 1060.

Well.. seeing as you posted a picture of a fucking mass-murderer, probably you don't either

Normally I don't agree with channers. But this (at least some of it) is absolutely 1000% true.

Brain chips exist, Elon Musk said he's interested in creating a brain chip, it's only a matter of time. Genetic engineering exists. It is a real thing, and not made up. Pray they don't start genetically engineering human beings. AI exists. AI will be smart enough to predict peoples' behaviours with a decent accuracy.

Gonna be a great century

Literally we are charged more than the value of each dollar whenever any are printed. It can't be repaid.

Which part of it do you not agree with and see as true? I'll do my best to convince you as to why it will be.

Much better, thanks doc. How is what I said incorrect? The loan management agencies the gummint turns the loans over to are almost certainly mega-kikes. The gummint itself is illegitimate and runs on stolen tax dollars for pork and pet projects from which the jews embezzle like sucking through a straw out of the well of our national wealth. Student loans being forgiven fucks over the government and the loan collection firms, IE fucks over kikes, IE what's bad for them is good for me. Also I personally won't have to hand over my shekels. As a bonus it will indirectly fuck the universities, because the student loan bubble popping and the debt being forgiven would make them less willing to take on students in the future. Universities being the primary liberal brainwashing station, would it not fuck them over to forgive the student debt? That's count them three birds with one stone.

Sorry if that's rambling, sleep deprivation, but tell me why that's wrong.

I said nothing about Trump. I like him, primarily, because he triggers normies and shitlibs. He may or may not be /our guy/, time will tell, but while he May be bad, Illary is DEFINITELY bad. Logic says even if you distrust Trump, he's still the best bet. Unless you're accelerationist.

Reading one comment is different from reading a constant stream of useful idiots for the republican party every single day

Of course you should forgive/not pay/etc. student debt. It's free in the rest of the world, it's free in Mexico, I don't even know why this is an issue.

Good thing you've been blessed with the infallible powers of logic

You're one huge faggot, and I don't say this sparingly, user.

The FED raises rates on bonds, not your bank account. Many banks already have negative interesr rate and bail-in policies

For fucks sake, read a book and lurk more.

Are you being stupid on purpose?

The Dow always goes back up when the markets go back to potential. Granted, the Dow is less consistent than the S&P 500, because the Dow includes fewer stocks, but it will always go back up. Buying Dow when the market is down wouldn't be a horrible idea, because once GDP gets back to potential you can sell off, or wait until GDP goes above potential for a time and sell off then.

This post feels like it has been written by 17 year old plebbitor that just discovered the chans.

Gas yourself kike

Get the fuck out to Holla Forums. How can one use the word "free" on Holla Forums unironically you piece of shit mental slave. Suckstart a shotgun for being a waste of space you leftist retard.

EURO RIP
2002 - 2016

At a guess, I would say that they're attempting to cause people to panic and sell gold, they know that extreme inflation and economic disaster is going to happen if interest rates actually go all the way up to 1%.

DOW has been climbing back all day.
S&P 500 has been regaining today, too.

LOL…
…no.

I've successfully infiltrated the Jews.

Is this anonymous youtube channel legit?

youtube.com/channel/UC8WViDKvDsaYrX0FDKwEvCw/videos

it has lots of interesting videos, like why trump really wants to build the wall, the nwo plans for world domination, and says that somethings going to happen today

You don't understand the meaning of the word faggot, fuck off.

Please do kill yourself immediately.

Was it Ben Franklin who said that bankers are a bigger threat to America than standing armies?

I am disappointed in all of you

Ignoring my sweet dubs like this… You all should be ashamed.

This hike is actually LONG overdue.

They're just using it now to politicize it to make Trump unpopular. Of all things this hike will likely have little effect and just keep a few people from putting it all on the stock market.

It would be better to completely abolish the Fed, though.

I hope so. I could pay off the rest of my student loan debt and still have money in the bank right now but I've been holding out just in case of an event like this (even partial forgiveness will likely save me more than the interest saved from paying off now).

Now as to the rate increase… are they doing this in anticipation of a higher demand in borrowing? more small businesses startups under Trump etc Or they just going to go back a new flavor of sub-prime lending and further fuck up bankruptcy laws to even more so protect the lender like they did with student loans? since that's the most kiked way to proceed I'd assume so

Can this guy please drop dead?

Ignore; wrong thread

Why is Holla Forums always so wrong?

It's just the timing. They have been keeping them super low all through Obongo's term and now only raising them to fuck over Trump.

Oh well, just gives Trump all the more reason to go after the fed.

And also (((coincidentally))) OPEC now decides to raise oil prices as well. I think that's why Trump got connected with the Exxon guy, in an attempt to prevent oil from sabotaging his presidency.

Looks like we are going to be seeing economic warfare against the Trump administration.

This is obvious bubble behavior.

the only people, who will have currency, will be the chosen ones. as before, these people will receive their currency via cronyism welfare handouts. medicare/caid, stamps, grants, spending bills, tax credits, government jobs, risk-free loan (govt backed security), stealth buy-back programs, and the like will now move from not just out-competing all other trace capital remaining, but being the only spenders left. as if things weren't bad enough already. the rate hike ensures that currency velocity must now spike higher than ever before for those who can still play, and will kill all non-welfare-gifted players still relying on capital.

total currency/debt C in circulation is the factor. the rate R is next to irrelevant next to C. past actions whereby the R went all over the place were possible due to C being orders of magnitude smaller. this is no longer the case. central may be just throwing in the towel, thinking it will just try something different… but likely doesn't understand what was possible before is not possible now. they may even think that they're being helpful.

regardless, all those non-central linked will not be able to keep up with the compulsion of dollars to sustain their property renting or (faux) ownership allusions. this is worse than a total collapse, only in that the chosen/welfared will be able to exercise limited abortive wealth transfer, whereas all those not will not be able to exercise such (ie their wealth will be compelled away). arguably, it is this effect that is, has, and will continue to be the most damaging.

the combined effect of programs and liquidations means, in all likelihood, that the shitskin favorites and recently imported zero account holders will move from competing with remaining capital to able to buy or rent assets to simply having zero contention.

Trump is going to be a second herbert hoover and in 4 years you will probably be a leftist again.

Going to be a nightmare uncle ted was right

Don't buy stock right now, it isn't the time and $800 won't get you enough to be worthwhile.

Invest in ammunition, long-term food (freeze-dried foodstuffs, water storage, and MRE's), and silver coins.

Now, don't be an idiot and think of silver as a commodity investment: it's not. They're artificially depressing the price. Right now it's $16 an ounce (good time to buy in). Not too awful long ago it was $32 an ounce. But you're buying it so you can sell it for a higher price (doesn't do any good if it's $100 an ounce, but that $100 has less buying power than it did the year before), like most people do.

You're buying it as a get-out-of-dodge fund. In a Weimar scenario where money is all but worthless due to hyperinflation, people will take silver because it's valuable. In a hyperdeflation value where money is incredibly valuable but nobody has any, people will take silver because it's valuable. If you have to flee to another country, you can't spend US dollars in most places even when the dollar is strong, you have to exchange your currency for the local currency. But you can spend silver anywhere on the planet, no exchange rate needed. THAT is why people should invest in silver, not as a commodity whose value fluctuates thanks to market manipulations and Jewish schemes.

Also stock up on liquor and cigarettes if you have money left over; great barter items. But you should be focusing on food, water, medicine, gasoline, and ammo.

so much this

never heard of it. The problem is, with current government(s) in the western world, as follows.
They have means to take away almost everything by means of taxation. This would be legitimate, but there is no legitimate spending (or rather, there is a lot of severely misdirected spending). Did we get a referendum on the bank bailouts? They could fail for all I care.
My main indicator would be Deutsche Bank stock. Since they provide 'services' such as rigging valuable metals pricing mechanisms.
A second trick they have is:
Also, no referendum was held in Germany as far as I can tell.
So: to prevent the state from distributing your money as if it controlled your wallet (it does..) you have to have some measure of civil disobedience.
Bitcoin is a valuable concept, and it is surprising how sturdy it is, and the shit it's been through.
Bitcoin kicks SWIFT banking any day.

>ft.com/content/95895178-d49c-11e5-829b-8564e7528e54
"Accounting practices provide an appearance of precision that may be a poor guide to a world characterised by multiple risks and radical uncertainty. The superficial information we have from balance sheets and capital adequacy calculations understates the scale of complexity and interdependence in the global financial system. Market participants are right to be sceptical, and nervous, about banks. "

silverdoctors.com/gold/gold-news/one-year-in-hellsurviving-a-full-shtf-collapse-in-bosnia/