I'm new to leftist politics and I'm curious as to what your feelings are about rape culture. Is it real? If so, what exactly is it? I understand that sexual assaults are serious crimes that go unreported a lot but what are the material conditions that facilitate this supposed rape culture?
pic unrelated
identity politics belong in the trash
no
rich girls at liberal arts colleges getting exposed to identitarian liberalism
A rape culture is a culture in which rape is seen as at least somewhat acceptable under certain circumstances, rather than universally condemned like most parts of the world.
Yes, there are rape cultures, like some prison and military communities.
No, the West isn't a rape culture. Yes, the authorities have frequently had lukewarm responses to reports of rape, but that's because they have lukewarm responses to reports of crime in general when it's crime committed against normal civilians, especially the poor. Watch those cold case file shows on TV sometime and be appalled at how many times the police's reaction to an obviously suspicious disappearance is "they probably just ran away, fam :^)"
I've been to fucking China man.
Rape culture is real, but Western culture is not rape culture and it's offensive to represent it as such.
Are all cultures rapey? No
Are some? Yes
Are first world western countries? No
Is everyone in those cultures? No
Is anyone in cultures that are not? Yes
Does culture influence those attitudes? Yes
Is it the only cause? No
Are rape jokes rape culture? No, they usually are a satire of rapists not making fun of victims.
It's real in certain contexts, like war or prison, which is where the term comes from. The idea that society as a whole is a rape culture is one of the most absurd pieces of pure ideology imaginable. For fuck's sake if you go to prison for rape, the other inmates (many of whom are murderers) will treat you like a lower class of person than they already treat their fellow inmates. On the outside, the accusation itself (sometimes even the mere suggestion) can turn a man into a social leper.
Are you in India? Saudi Arabia? Jail? No?
Nope! No rape culture!
Unless you get "eye raped" or "rape ingored" or something.
If someone refuses to have sex with me, is that not a denial rape?
look at you putting the Holla Forums in lefty pol!
ANYWAY
Slippery notion to define, but in general it's a culture where we're more willing to sweep the topic of rape under the rug instead of confronting it directly. This leads to rapes going unreported, and rapists (who are usually repeat offenders) to continue their predatory behavior
There isn't a SINGLE thing, but a number of things contribute such as
•we live in a society that's completely fucking weird about sex, and there's a lot of leftover Christian shame surrounding it. the ideological meaning we give
to sex is why sexual assaults are so traumatising, and why we're uncomfortable broaching the topic except through dramatic mediums such as lifetime movies, SVU, etc
•the shame that comes with this leads many to not even report their assault. Rapists are free to repeat their behaviour.
•If they do report, there's usually little that will be done due to a number of factors. Lack of evidence, the prosecutor just doesn't want to be bothered with it, etc
Postscript- so honestly I think the best way to confront "rape culture" isn't the liberal feminist notion of "ASSUME EVERYONE ACCUSED IS GUILTY", but rather to de-spook society with regards to sex.
well porky rapes the world every day
There's a lot of misinformation coming from that subcontinent, largely because they've bitten down hard on the pink pill.
For one thing, false rape reports are through the roof. Not because of vindictive women trying to hurt men or whatever - because in India if a man rapes a woman, he must marry her. While there are women who are cynically taking advantage of this, it's more common for a man in India to fall in love with a woman from a different caste and consent to being falsely accused of rape so he can marry her. Marriage in India (aside from the lowest castes) is a huge deal and very communal. Normally you need approval from your family, and marrying someone from a different caste (higher or lower) is a massive taboo. Thus, rape allegations have been turned into a loophole so people can marry for love.
There's also a lot of feminist propaganda swirling around in India right now that exacerbates the issue. I'm on my phone atm. I'll post some when I get to my computer.
fuck off back to /r/mensrights
WebM related.
Also, watch this video to the end and see if you catch the PURE IDEOLOGY they try to slip in unnoticed.
youtube.com
...
rape culture exists in the west at least insofar as there are a significant minority of men who's first instinct when hearing claims of rape is "she's making it up, or she was asking for it, what was she wearing, she wanted it and then changed her mind the next day etc etc etc"
now automatically assuming rape claims are concrete and using internet mob justice to ruin somebodies life is not the same as having a court and will end up hurting innocent people of course
now this is just offensive to rape victims
...
Nice try pajeet. Your disgusting subhuman country should be nuked. Fucking rapist street shitter
good post
Yes, because it's totally not orientalism to call a country of 1 billion people a rape culture.
how much ideology did you eat out of the trash today?
I've seen people use it here plenty. Maybe you should pay closer attention to the content of what people are saying instead of their rhetoric, or are you also going to bitch about me calling you a gay nigger?
...
I've never seen it used on this board. Ever.
To be fair I don't go through every thread, but still I have a good grasp of the buzzwords used around here. And that's not one of them.
fucking analytics, man
Well, I have. And feminism is worse than trash ideology. It's mass-produced by the bourgeoisie for regular consumption by the proles. This is a case where a pill seems like a highly appropriate metaphor.
Sure they can. The same point could be made in a completely different language with its own idioms.
The point he misses is that people who call Islam a 'rape culture' do so to highlight how little feminists are willing to criticise it.
They often do so mockingly, or they do so to contrast Western 'misogyny' of circumstance with an ideology that defines women as property of some man.
I find that when people say things like 'orientalism' or what this guy says, that people will note hatred of women when its 'over there', they tend to be simply pasting over and whitewashing other societies, the shorthand for this is 'they're just people', an inane and insulting liberal catchphrase popular among 'the left' also.
He makes that point, but I cut it out because it it's irrelevant to the next part, which I think is a much more important point in the video.
Maybe I should have left it in. His point was that third world countries suck in general, and it just gives people an excuse to cry hatred of women over. I posted the clip because people ITT are pointing to shitty countries and calling them rape culture, when they're just shitty places to live and any crime is going to be higher.
We need to have a MGTOW flag.
What do they have to do with any of this?
We already have one. Also fuck off.
>>>/suicide/
>>>Holla Forums
>>>/mgtow/
>>>/gulag/
This. Its along the same lines of a polack claiming that blacks are inherently subhuman because they are more often criminals not taking into account material conditions that made them that way
And here it is. You see?
Fuck off to reddit if you want to nurse your manfeels.
There are millions of different ways in which something can suck cock. Failure comes in many flavours.
However, you are kidding yourself if you believe that the shittiness of particularly female life in certain places has nothing to do with the fact that they are legally and socially regarded as property.
We have to know why someplace is terrible and for whom, not just that it is.
LMAO!
Because men doesn't matter right?
You fucking misandrist.
Men's feelings are not more important than women's oppression. You're just going to have to deal with not being entitled to women's bodies.
If you are within reach, I'm going to eat you, and I'm entitled to do so by my hunger. Fuck you.
I love when men try to pull the misandry card, as though you've really experienced misandry to such a systematic or traumatic extent in your life that it actually brings back bad memories and shit.
Seriously, stop being such a pussy. You have no reason to be.
And "yet" you didn't!
Which is the key to the point I'm trying to make: the language that we use, phrases, idioms, what we talk about and how we talk about it, etc., are all reflective of our world view.
The fact you said "pink pill", a phrase originating among MRA/MGTOW types and co-opted by Holla Forumstards, shows that at the very least you frequent these spaces, if not share in their ideology.
tl;dr if you're gonna falseflag, then at least do it in a way that doesn't make it look so god damn obvious that's what you're doing
And the problem is people want to focus on ways women have it bad instead of ways everyone has it bad. This is the point. I don't disagree that women have it bad. My point is why is that the only thing people consider? They have it bad for concrete reasons (e.g. very scarce resources that make inheritance and so on a big deal, which makes monitoring reproduction important, etc) that cause other problems too. If you slap an ideological bandaid on a problem in the superstructure instead of doing something to fix the base, you are going to do zip to solve the other problems, and your solution to this one problem (rape culture) is a weak one at best.
Wow no wonder why no one fucking one likes you.
Oppression of women.
come the fuck on.
both genders are fucking slaves of the state.
we are both equally slaves.
Here comes the Edgy Nihilist.
yeah right Mr I don't give a fuck about anything gives his stupid opinion everywhere.
k fam
yes we are both slaves to the god damn SUPERSTRUCTURE lmao
implying capitalism affects men and women the same exact way
I meant that if women suffer in some peculiar way, then it ought to be understood how this forms part of the general structure of that particular class society, how it plays into the oppression of one class by another.
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You know god damn well that's not what I meant, trotsky-kun
Read Federici.
You unbearable cunt.
Everywhere I post there you are you fucking neet piece of shit.
And what is that?
Muh Patriarchy?
Spoiler alert it doesn't exist.
Actually it does and it makes no fucking distinction between genders.
Profit doesn't care about your gender.
so fuck off stop pretending women are more oppressed than men do.
I could do it in spanish, but I think most people on this board speak english, fam.
I do frequent those spaces, because they're a good indicator of how the average person feels, and this board the only place where I have ever heard anyone use the phrase "the pink pill". I hear Holla Forums use "red pill" to refer to their "woke" state, and the only other people I've seen using the "pill" lingo are pick up artists on one particular subreddit (another group entirely). Now I'm not denying the phrase originates somewhere within one of these groups, but they are not a single sphere of people you don't like. I dislike more than half of the people who fall into these categories, but I'm not stupid enough to lump them all together as one.
For one thing, the MRA/MGTOW "type" (they are quite different) are not incompatible with leftism. They just tend to miss the material causes of the problems they highlight. What is it I'm supposed to be doing that constitutes a "false flag" here? I'm pointing something out that people you don't like also point out?
I'm pleased that my posts trigger you this much, but there are at least four or five nihilist posters here now.
The cream rises, comrade!
The part that people miss is that in order to get "in some peculiar way" you have to actually make a comparison, but instead of looking at what's going on in reality people make a comparison in their heads to a hypothetical male population that has no problems to speak of. In places where one demographic has it shit, there's a good chance the other demos also have it shit.
I would fucking shot you in the hand you motherfucker don't you dare get close to me.
Superstructure is usually everything emerging from economic structure but not strictly economy related in a society. Ideologies, religions, education, political system and so on.
How about you explain his ideas briefly, because I have enough to read at the moment without getting smug 'recommendations'?
My, the room just got cold. Do you hear rattling?
I was mocking you for saying we're slaves to the state (the superstructure) instead of saying we're slaves to capital (the base). The state only ensures the continued state of slavery.
This isn't about who is more "oppressed", this is about how capital affects reality for different people in different ways. We might all be slaves, but how the subject experiences it varies according to a number of factors, including gender. This is seriously Leftism 101.
"Rape culture" is to men what "gangsta culture" is to blacks.
In other words, it abuses the word "culture" to sound less like a serious accusation of personal character.
I don't like you at all.
Well duh… every one gets to tells a different story ,that's obvious.
cada uno habla de la feria segun le va en ella.
I don't know how to say that in English so fuck it.
Holy shit I think your post is so dumb that it actually made me dumber for reading it.
Do you read what you type?
*her
Sivlia Federici talks in Caliban and the Witch - expanding on the ideas of Mariarosa dalla Costa and Selma James (especially from The Power of Women & the Subversion of the Community) - about how capitalism created modern conceptions of gender as a function of primitive accumulation. It was necessary to first disposses the peasants of the commons, systematically strip women of whatever autonomy they had through the Middle Ages just prior to the rise of capitalism, and then reinforce the modern conception of femininity in order to solve the problem of how to have a working class that has to work for a wage yet also needs to be paid little and worked hard. The solution is obvious: Reintroduce the reproduction of labor into the household, and create the ideological view that women are supposed to work in the home wage-free to reproduce the labor of the proletariat.
Effectively, capitalism created a class of unpaid laborers - "woman" as we know it - to reproduce the labor of a workforce that was otherwise not paid enough to maintain itself and worked too hard to deal with its reproduction through means outside of their waged labor.
You can argue that this isn't the case anymore for women in the first world because not all women are housewives anymore - which is true to an extent, but I fucking despise arguing over statistics - but it doesn't negate the fact that capitalism indeed has historically created our conceptions of gender, which are leftover in the first world and that continue to be used in the third world where capitalism finds greener pastures to exploit people.
notanargument.jpg
Did you try to read what I typed?
The feeling is mutual my dude.
I just want to GTFO.
Because Idpols are fucking ruining the show.
but ok here we go.
It doesn't exist.
end of history.
Hey op try the class pill it is the good poll nigga
i love you based nihilist
retard alert.
Good reminder.
post tits
modern leftism
Thanks famrade
Still not an argument. Tit pics would suffice, though.
oh shut up it's a fun meme
leftism/fun pick one
Where is the version of this with Stalin's head.
...
if i knew i couldn't have fun for another second but it would somehow help 'the revolution'
In that entire block I fail to see a single point that contradicts me.
Unless you see otherwise?
As an aside, how are you supposed to be a nihilist?
Do not concern yourself with how others feel about a topic. Concern yourself with what is true.
Only in some circumstances.
Rape culture is when rape is a normal part of culture. If a culture uses rape as a punishment or as part of a transaction, or as entertainment, that's rape culture. Rape cultures do not consider rape to be a crime. The phrase was coined to describe US prisons, which have a culture that revolves around rape.
Sex crimes and how the criminal justice system handles them are a separate issue. The fact that rape is considered a crime makes that culture not a rape culture. The material conditions that make prison a rape culture is a state of extreme oppression.
Huh, I just noticed Winnie the Pooh is commie-colored.
It's a fucking historical and objective fact that capitalism has not treated men and women equally, which is what Federici talks about in Caliban and the Witch, which you asked me to summarize.
What is your understanding of nihilism?
Not the Trot, but treating people differently doesn't mean one group was treated worse. You're talking about apples and oranges. Capitalism exploits people's labor in the most short-term efficient way it can, as is its nature. Arguing over which gender or race or whatever has/had it worse is fucking stupid and just divides people rather than uniting us against a common enemy. Yes, everyone has it shit under capitalism. Yes, different groups have different flavors of shit. No, that doesn't make our main interest different (killing Porky).
Guess what? Neither I, nor Federici (a Marxist feminist) are saying that women necessarily were treated worse under capitalism (though that's debatable once women came into the workforce with the residual ideological baggage of bourgeois gender roles on top of being a prole).
The point is that women and men under capitalism are treated differently, and that capitalism and patriarchy have different logics that have to be dealt with differently. Though as an anarchist I obviously take the position that patriarchy, racism, and capitalism all need to be abolished in parallel.
These kinds of oversimplifications of the struggle against capital are why people who want to play the part of revolutionaries need to read shit.
This FFS!
The fucking Nihilist edgy kid is just trying to score white knight points with the Anfems.
The phrase was literally coined by 70's feminists to describe the United States. Even if it's better than Holla Forums, I'm still amazed at how many people here talk out of their ass.
lolno
Feminists appropriated it like they appropriate everything else.
How's >tfw no leftist gf treating you?
You got a citation for that? Specifically a citation that shows (a) 'rape culture' was first used to describe prisons and (b) 70's feminists actually appropriated this phrase
I bet you aren't a don Juan with the ladies.
I bet the only woman that kisses you is your mom.
Why did you italicise 'not'?
But I have to ask, do you think there is anything similar about chopping wood and baking bread?
If so you haven't done either, and you misunderstood my analogy in the first place.
So here you just say what I was saying, albeit more self-righteously and a hell of a lot angrier.
Blyad, we got a huiaboo here.
Neither of you get laid, neither do I. Can we move past this or are we going to be swinging our half-inches around forever?
It's literally a fucking documentary film called "Rape Culture" about prison rape.
I'll have you know mine is 9/16ths!
Hey, if it makes you feel better to believe that. It doesn't change reality.
Ah, so you're using your analogy to prop up the stance you're trying to make?
Because your analogy was literally worthless and not applicable.
m8, you said that capitalism treats men and women equally, and that straight up isn't true. Men and women have been exploited and oppressed differently under capitalism, and it's only through the erosion of gender roles that this has changed somewhat. Though not entirely and certainly not in third world countries.
Again I don't think you really know what you're talking about when you try to make these smug offhand remarks about nihilism.
Ohdearlord you clearly have never watched the film. The discussion of prison rape is only PART of it.
(not to mention the first use of the term 'rape culture' appeared in print a year prior in a feminist publication)
Go to college and learn how to do research properly, you fucking child
That Capitalism makes no distinction between genders? that's what I'm telling you, but you just don't get it.
Read Federici my dude. I remain unimpressed by the Holla Forums talking points about le idpol that you've been regurgitating.
NOT TO MENTION the people who made the film were feminists. So what, are you gonna tell me they appropriated themselves now
bingo bitties show us your titties
You misunderstood the analogy, the operative part was not the bread or the wood it was the status as slaves.
I did not say that chopping wood or baking bread were equal.
At what point and in which society? Take capitalist France for example - the smallholding peasant farm that characterised rural French living survived the turn of the century, along with it the mode of life that existed there, in that women as well as men worked the land.
Is is not erosion of gender roles that causes different expressions of class oppression, these themselves must firstly be underlined by real changes in material conditions.
I can see you are getting annoyed that I'm speaking to you as though we were equals, and not respecting your eminent knowledge.
So you are an anarchist who calls himself a nihilist, I expect out of a deliberate self-association with the turn of the century nihilists, who were Russian, hence 'huiaboo'.
Since its now been established that we're going to be hostile without exception, why don't you stop with the tired old /lit/ memes you tired old spacker?
I see you read the wikipedia article on it.
Pick one, or even better strongly demonstrate we don't live in one
...
Let's pretend that I didn't have watch it for class two years ago and go with that (we watched it in between "Margaret's Museum" and "The Magdelene Sisters", it was an interesting transition)
Do you have anything to show that what I am saying is wrong? Are you going admit you're full of it, or just evade the issue entirely by shitposting?
I'll simply advise the people reading the thread to watch it for themselves rather than read and believe what some random person online said about it.
Maybe I should stream it then :^)))
Do you have it?
No, but I could maybe find it
Not in the west it isn't
IIRC it was on youtube.
I don't see it on there. Most of what comes up is a bunch of alt-right horseshit. wew
who is this?
I did some Googling and found links to the same dead page. I think it got removed.
Well, it's not on Pirate Bay. I might have been able to find it on Kickass. RIP ;_;
Though if someone has a private movie tracker invite…
It's available for purchase for $165, including full exhibition rights. That may be the only way to get it. I mean it's pretty niche.
Welp I'm certainly not gonna spend that kind of money to stream a movie that maybe five people will tune in for :^)
The Spectacle/Consumer culture is the definition of Rape Culture, raping everything of all cultures and turning it into commodities!
yes
For example, in highly islamic countries women are raped and then blamed for it and have to marry their rapists because they are tainted.
Oh you meant in the west? No it doesn't really exist outside of the minds of a few idiots who think a tiny segment of biggoted dudebros or fedoras constitute a global rape culture.
American prisons are a rape culture though, but those are (black) men so people don't care about them.
Beautiful post
If this is true that pretty fucked up, but I'm pretty sure poointheloos rape a lot even if you take those out of the statistics.
Rebel is in Prison now, after he got out he can explain Rape Culture in his next video.
No, he dead
He left because he didn't like people calling him Reddit Obesity. Not even joking.
Kek
That is hilariously pathetic if true
This, he's currently active in r/socialism
Read this for insight:
shakesville.com
This is some of the most "stop liking what I don't like" shit I've ever seen.
As far as I can tell - the a-priori reasoning that all men everywhere at all times are about 2 seconds from just fucking the shit out of everything within a 5 foot radius.
...
There's a difference between critique and labeling something as "rape culture" and a moral evil. Especially when said thing is activity between consenting adults. Especially when said thing is hugely popular fiction written by women for women. People who want to control other people's thoughts and bedrooms should fuck off, whether they're priests or feminists.
I'm down with not calling something a moral evil, cause that's childish af, but I think the point they were trying to get across is that popular culture is a reflection of our ideology towards certain topics, and rape certainly doesn't escape that.
Pop culture is also a reflection of the human condition generally. Rape fantasy and rough sex are extremely common. The article put depictions of people's (consensual) sexual proclivities in the same category as blaming rape victims for getting raped and all sorts of other heinous shit, but put media portrayals of such sexual activity first in the long list that makes up most of its content.
"the human condition"
Good job on outing yourself as a liberal humanist LARPing as a leftist
Is there a board-approved term that means the same thing as the combined system of ideology and material conditions that "human condition" expresses? Because I'm not aware of it. This shit right here is why leftism won't grow. Somebody uses the 'wrong' words and "hurr you're not my comrade" is the response. If anyone is the larper here it's you, intent on using a movement meant for everyone as a way to feel superior and exclusive.
>>>/suicide/
Again, the words you use reflect your ideology. It was already obvious that you were a fucking liberal when you were going on about "muh feminists and priests telling me what to do".
"Leftism" in this country is already infected with humanism, and this board is one of the few places where there {was} a potential to break out of that mold. So no, I'm not going to tolerate it just so leftism can "grow" when it's been killing it for a long fucking time.
You're really bad at pretending to be something you're not, or you're newly interested in leftism but still can't escape looking at the world through a liberal lense. Either way I have zero patience for it.
Good, so you admit that you would rather leftism stay small and ineffective so you can jerk yourself off over how superior you think you are. Clearly you have no actual interest in overthrowing capitalism.
Rape culture is somethin nobody wants to acknowledge because men can't accept that if women were treated equally society and the world would change fundamentally for the better
This is a new level of shitposting.
Beautiful, tbh
9/10
F*ck off if you don't have an argument jeez!
I like you
Form your own opinions man. Leftypol are consistently leftist on virtually every position except women's rights.
yes.
My old roommate would often go to clubs and roofie then rape girls. He defended it by saying it was just a "cultural" thing. He wasn't my roommate for much longer after that, but even him, a rapist, admitted he was adhering to certain cultural norms.
I also knew a girl in China who told her mom she got raped, and her mom almost kicked her out of the house because she was so furious at her daughter for being raped and "losing her virginity" in her house. That is rape culture.
In many Islamic countries, rape culture is virtually ubiquitous. ISIS go beyond rape culture and even have rape infastructure. I read an article about how they have elaborate supply routes, showrooms, and ceremonies for distributing rape slaves.
What rights do women not have in the western world, other than the rights that everyone does not have?
'Rape culture' is a strange concept.
If it was real, pointing it out would be completely useless. It would be like calling a slave owner racist in the 1700's, he wouldn't give a fuck.
Women are generally paid less than men in the western world.
Women are also expected(see Engles for clarification on this word) to produce free labor in the form of housekeeping and childcare, which is not expected of men at all. Engels describes this phenomenon very well in Origin of The Family, Private Property, and the State. I highly suggest you read this if you haven't already.
That being said, the quality of life of women in the developed western world looks like heaven when compared to lives of women in Islamic and/or Third world countries.
This. If you live in a rape culture, nobody would give a fuck if you raped someone. Men who really believe you live in a rape culture, you should test your hypothesis by loudly bragging about raping women in a crowded bar.
Not for the same amount of the same work
This. Rapists are pretty fucking high on the list of people who are gonna get shanked in prison.
The biggest single contributing factor here is that women are overwhelmingly the sex that leaves work long-term when children are born (re-entering the work force later means years of lost time compared to their peers). The only way to fix this gap is for either child-rearing to be separated from the family (good luck changing that any time soon) or for men to stay home with the kids just as often.
You mean women have the option to be house wives. They also have the option to be wage cucks. Engles lived in a different time, and cultural standards have changed significantly. Women today in the West are encouraged to choose what path to take in their lives, whereas men are still expected just to be a wagecuck.
The Western world has changed significantly since then. This doesn't invalidate the work, but it makes it less relevant.
Quality of life for anybody looks great in a first-world country compared to a third-world one.
Way to reveal you known absolutely nothing about marxism, Holla Forums .
Google "prison rape", you dummy.
Love your logic there.
Housekeeping and Childcare is unpaid labor that forces women into the reserve army of labor. This does not happen nearly as frequently to men.
Read your Engels, Comrade.
This is a great way to highlight the difference between rape culture and not rape culture. Men raping women is not rape culture. Men raping men is. Men who rape women are likely to get shanked in prison. Men who rape men are not.
The claim was not that we live in a sexist culture, but that we live in a rape culture. Your analogy would be appropriate if you replaced "racist culture" with "lynch culture."
No, men are just expected to be wageslaves doing significantly more dangerous and difficult work.
This shit is not an argument.
You should realize that doesn't prove what you think it does.
Apply yourself. There may be racism in our society, but it's not socially acceptable. We perhaps live in a racist society, but not in a 'society of racism'
Ok
Fuck. You said everything I did, but better.
Somebody was bound to. That guy's post is really dumb.
...
Again the main point of those discussing "rape culture" is not that everyone thinks it's a-ok, but rather that (along with child sexual abuse) everyone wants to be hush hush about it and pretend it doesn't exist
The lot of you are like Holla Forums in the sense that you're so wrapped up in discussing the implications of the phrase "rape culture", that none of you ever bother to read the literature behind the term. It's embarrassing, tbh.
Wait 'till you hear about alien abduction culture, poltergeist culture and mind control wave culture!
The difference is material consequence.
That's not what I meant, you cunt.
wavaw.ca
Ergo, rape culture means a society that is deemed to tacitly approve of rape.
What a shock, feminists being dishonest.
Fukuyama geh raus
Honestly this doesn't sound offensive or wrong to me at all. We turn a blind eye at torturing prisoners of war, mostly innocent. In fact a large demographic support it. What we collectively "allow", shouldn't be ignored. Context is important.
Your offense to it instead of debate of it is hardly surprising either, given where we're posting.
That's hardly a surprise, given the flag you're using.
You didn't have to delete your post.
Where did I claim offence? My disagreement is with the veracity of that claim.
American's care about the consequences of rape, all of us do. That's why we all unified when Abu Ghraib happened. It's because we cared.
So do you have anything to show that we don't blame victims and that sexual violence isn't normalised?
Or you just gonna shit this thread up with 'I don't agree so it must be wrong hEH HEH checkmate feminsitas!
Why are idiots bumping this thread?
This is why there is no point in attempting a discussion with anyone using that flag. This conversation is now at an end.
Straight of the top of my head:
1) The huge numbers of laws against rape
2) The treatment of sexual offenders within prisons
3) That working class men have a culture of quietly beating rapists and permanently injuring them
There. I now expect a reply in bad faith, as this is all that ever comes from feminists, so do not be surprised if I do not respond further.
The point is that it is related, there are circumstances where we can strip someone of their autonomy in our own collective eyes, or give fractions of empathy/sympathy for it. Which is a larger problem within Capitalism as it encourages it, particularly late stage Capitalism. It's emblematic of a larger social problem created by capital.
What the fuck world do you live in? People lose their fucking minds over this shit, trying to protect women and children.
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I'd argue in the media that's true, and you feel reflexive that media is reality. Which is otherwise unsurprising.
I've seen this shit happen in my personal life, fuck off with your assumptions you clown.
Personal experience does not equate sociological knowledge.
Sorry, what happened to your claim that my doubts are based on "feel[ing] reflexive[ly] that media is reality"? Did you just conveniently forget what you said in your last post?
Having direct experience with something doesn't mean I have no sociological knowledge either. My claim was about the character of people's responses, which isn't captured very well by academic study.
They're still the same.
I'm willing to entertain you enough to say that it isn't "captured well by academic study" when it has.
I'm going to try my best to give a good faith reply. First, I want to make this clear: to say rape is normalised is not to say that society thinks rape is immoral and/or unethical. Two distinct concepts.
There's numerous cases of cover-ups of child sex abuse by family members and teachers, colleges convering up for their sports teams' sexual assaults, prosecutors not taking up rape cases do to their unwillingness to go down that icky territory (a lot of times due to political reasons), etc. There's tons of articles published in journals and elsewhere about how victims of rape/CSA are guilted and shamed to keep quiet, usually by convincing them that it was "their fault"
People attempting to cover up crimes isn't evidence that those crimes are accepted by their culture at large. It's evidence of the opposite.
Yes it is.We don't live in a murder or robbery culture because there are cover ups and because people sometimes blame the victims of crimes for making bad decisions. Once again it's just feminists ignoring all other factors to come to some bizarre conspiracy theory. The fact that people commit crimes and try to cover them up or that powerful people can get away with crimes doesn't prove that our society "normalizes" them.
Exactly. The presumption that society does approve of unethical behaviour is implicit in the existence of the complaint. Shitting in toilets is "normalized", yet no-one complains about that.
This one always gets me. Feminists bring out the special pleading when it comes to rape, as if people don't also get blamed for being robbed or burgled or battered. Gee it's almost like the only reason they single out rape is because they treat it like it's inherently a special kind of crime. Why would they do that? Maybe because of their own repressed beliefs that a woman's sexuality is the most valuable thing about her, therefore rape destroys a woman's value. Huh, do you think maybe that has something to do with the occasional feminist's claim that rape is somehow worse than murder?
Ironically, in a society where nobody thought of women's value in terms of sex, it would be a lot more like the dreaded "rape culture" because rape wouldn't be seen as such a big deal. It'd be basically a worse version of assault and battery, rather than the kind of life-altering trauma that it's painted as now. Gee, maybe do you think it would be more empowering to teach women that rape is a shitty thing that bad people do, rather than something that should make them re-assess their value as people if it happens to them? What a world it would be if rape victims could just nurse their injuries, do some therapy, and move on with their lives instead of being re-traumatized by cynical assholes who want to use them to make a political point.
What's funny about this shit is it just ends up hurting women in the long run. Teaching someone to be more careful to avoid crimes is a good thing. Asking someone to take precautions isn't the same is laughing in their face after they been victimized and not trying to seek justice for them. I hate when feminists try to act like they're equivalent acts.
Yeah its just typical idpol cherry-picking. It's like they seriously believe that if anything bad happens to a women ever it must be part of some grand conspiracy. I can't believe people take these clowns seriously.
Don't forget the part where feminists depict reporting a rape as equally harrowing. Reporting a rape is the only way that rapist is going to get caught. Most rapists are serial rapist. Discouraging rape victims from reporting rapes increases the rate of rape. This is pretty simple stuff.
Imagine, for a moment, feeling completely exposed, vulnerable, and violated, not to mention the physical pain that comes with it. That shit causes trauma, lasting trauma. Yeah, yeah, hurr DURR all personal crimes can cause trauma, but short of physical/psychological torture I can't think of a worse thing you can do to someone.
If you ask 99% of rape victims, they would tell you they'd rather die than go through that again. I'd rather die than go through that again. I'd rather die than navigate again through years of therapy and attempting to feel normal again. It's not that hard to have some fucking empathy.
I'm done with this thread, the autism level is too high. It's one thing to say there's no rape culture because we do find morally repulsive, but it's another to say that and in the same breath talk like getting raped isn't a big deal. Hope none of you find out the hard way what it's actually like.
Uh… you realize that people get beaten badly enough that they end up in the hospital, right? Are you saying that getting raped but otherwise only having minor physical injuries is worse than getting trampled, stomped, and getting broken ribs and ruptured organs? People get traumatized by that, but at the end of the day they don't come away from it feeling like they'd rather be dead, because we don't tie getting your shit kicked in to your value as a person.
t. your butt
You seem to think getting raped reflects poorly on you, which just supports that point. The reason rape is so traumatizing is because we have ideology that women's value as people comes from their sexuality.
Understanding where somebody is coming from is not the same as agreeing with them. I understand where nazis are coming from, but that doesn't make me a nazi. Especially in your case, why would seeing things from your point of view (having a perspective heavily colored by trauma) mean I would be inclined to agree with your assessment?
That's not what was said. What was said is it's made worse than it has to be by ideology.
How noble of you.