Idpol

There are Iranian feminists who have been protesting for decades against mandatory hijab. There are Saudi women who are protesting for their right to drive. There are Pakistani women who are protesting against Islamic modesty standards.

Oh you mean places with an established upper class? Feminism and IDpol are bourgeoisie so it makes perfect since that the monarch of Saudi arabia would be one

So, fighting against traditional modesty standards is somehow divorced from class struggle? Sorry, but domestic labor and control of women's fertility play a huge role in the reproduction of capital and class relations.

What does modesty standards have to do with the means of production?

If women buy more shoes, it encourages more neo-liberal economic policies.

also you switched from saying that there is feminism in the third world to there should be feminism in the third world

If colonialism was so bad, then why are there so many niggers now?

mortenjerven.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/AfricanPopulation.Methods.pdf

Reproduction, you dolt. Capital needs to constantly reproduce itself. Control of women's fertility is a huge part of it to say the least.

Agreed, which is why both traditionalism and capitalism have to be fought.

There already are feminist struggles in the Third World. I listed a few of them.

this implies capitalism controls women's fertility

you've listed bourgeoisie feminism

Does that mean anti-natalism is feminist?

When most people say idpol here, they are mainly referring to petty shit like Third Wave Feminism or White Nationalism.

Or Antifa

Isn't white nationalism implicitly leftist? If we are to consider what is being put out at large, it seems to advocate a withdrawal from the global capitalist system.

Anti-natalism is lifestylism. Collective, organized struggle against patriarchy is feminism.

I'm pretty sure nationalism, of any kind, bases itself on certain kinds of identities - ie. "white nationalism" isn't the only one.

But patriarchy isn't entirely dependent on properarianism. Moreover, societies without property engage in patriarchal tenancies.

Honour killings and the hanging of gays and trans people aren't a thing apparently

But they're pushed to be gay and trans as part of capitalist-consumerism. Muslims have gay sex all the time but aren't gay.

Someone tweet this thread to Jason Unruhe because I want to discuss this issue with him, as much of his case for Third Worldism is informed by his hatred of idpol.

Why do people keep assuming its only upper class women doing these protests?

The American racial conflict and most of the leftist's rethoric was fabricated by American scholars, universities. If you observe the non-Anglophone world you'll notice their culture is very different. Only stupid people let themsevels be defined by it.

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The two of them go hand-in-hand. Feminism, when done correctly, is a form of class struggle.

Wtf did I just read. If they could avoid death and discrimination in sure they would.

Also, what about honor killings and all kinds of social issues that affect women in third world countries?

because it is

what is the percentages of gays compared to the first world?

It's true. A fundamentally hedonistic identity can only emerge from a wealthy environment.

No, because they have been blinded by ideology.

Also a direct result of property. It would not be a big deal if women could not drive cars if cars didn't exist.

Only as a form of dismantling propertarianism. Otherwise, it becomes spooked beyond belief.

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Feminism became insignificant when it became narcissistic and consumerist rather than anti-propertarian. No one is denying that. But you seem to think women's struggles should take a backseat to a general economism, which is 1. unscientific, 2. undialectical, and 3. not even supported by Third World feminists who see the oppression of women and capitalism AND traditionalism as all interlinked.

This is a huge steaming pile of bullshit and it's not surprising that it's expressed in American English. Anyone who knew anything about the history of the UK in nineteenth century would know that domestic labour was performed by servants. They even had wet nurses, ffs. Feminists never were ones to let facts stand in the way of a good polemic, though.

you're haunted.

In the cases of bourgeois households, yes. Most of those servants were women, so my point still stands.

maoistrebelnews.com/2016/07/31/picking-garbage-first-world-ingenuity-third-world-necessity/

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No, not does not stand. It's utter nonsense. The position of the servants was not contingent on their genitals (save for the wet nurse, simply due to the requirements for the job). Class was the determinant factor.

People can be motivated by their own pursuits of identity, that is their own business. The difference is that in the first world, idpol completely distracts from class struggle, or for that matter, any kind of economic politics.

The Zapatistas, for example, are an indigenous peoples movement, but they are also thoroughly left-wing anarchist. They have proven themselves to be highly competent as a political entity, but could just as easily be a right wing spook fest where all they care about is their tradishun and not, y'know, the fucking wellbeing of their families.

kek, no they dont, they mean anything that's not class.

Zapatistas have never claimed to be anarchist though.

get fucked third worldist moron.

theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/31/tokyo-elects-first-female-governor

Congrats on Tokyo for electing its first female governor! Surely a rolemodel for girls all across Japan, no but the whole world.

Don't mind that she's fascist xenophobe and that the true progressive candidate was slandered to no end during the election! Her gender is all what is noteworthy!

Now women can be as good as men in undermining leftist ideals!

All those groups are also economically vulnerable which effects the social.

Read Marx.

Everyone here is infected with just as much idpol as Tumblr

And stupider take the internet's word on a subject

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stop

Yes, all of this is true, but the major point I was trying to make in my OP was the fact that identification with proletarianism barely exists all that much in the Third World compared to, say, struggles which are distinctly ethnic or religious. Even when you have an instance where the issue is blatantly one of class, such as the wealth disparity between oil-rich southern Nigeria and poor-as-hell northern Islamic Nigeria, the conflict of wealth and property turns into one of race/religion ideologically speaking.

The same could also be said of Latin America where race and class are one and the same.

Anti-idpol is sometimes a code word for right wing idpol.

Won't somebody think of da white menz?!?!?!

kek ok…that fucking oci is retarded

And I wondered how Africa is being manipulated…

Leaving Zizek in the middle, it's one thing not to agree with a particular theory, and another entirely to dismiss it as posturing. "Try to find in all of the work you mentioned some principles from which you can deduce conclusions", Chomsky says. Yet, as much as hiding empty ideas or no ideas at all behind cult status is intellectually dishonest (Bernard-Henri Lévy, the self-imposed leader of the French "new philosophers" of the 70ies is a perfect example.), using this status as an a priori argument to claim an absence of theory is misleading.

Among the accused is Derrida. His concept of "deconstruction" fashioned and/or described the political process at play in France since the 1968 student uprising,which saw the downfall of patriarchal society, and led to a new (brief) era of declericalization. One might indeed wonder whether this concept isn't bound to lead to social nihilism one way or another, but one can't deny it promotes critical thinking and political empowerment. It is this very concept modern-day conservative pseudo-thinkers are raging against, because it's the antonym of identity politics…

hehe. Lévy has to go to gulag. Good post.

Do you agree with this: identity politics doesn't relate itself to a theory specifically, although different branches of different theories, can claim it as a means of self-justification; identity politics becomes a tool to reassert the forces of ideology, and its social apparatus, within the framework of reality.

Those things would referred to as popular racism ne nationalism rather than idpol.

the latter is defined by the focus on insignificant shit that somebody that has to work for a living probably doesn't have time for.

Use your words to prove him wrong.

But people on leftypol rarely make that distinction.

Instead they get SUPER butt hurt when anyone suggests proles stab each other in the all the along lines of race gender and sexuality

I just did.

Distinction without a difference.

Privilege Theory is eurocentric at its core.
youtube.com/watch?v=J1PBiVPUvFc

Liberal feminism and liberal ID politics are not the only kinds of feminism or ID politics, friend.

They aren't explicitly libsoc or anarchist, but it's pretty clear that they are only avoiding labels so the media and classcuck pundits can't slander them as M-Ls or Maoists.

you just pointed out how the underlying tensions are caused by resource scarcity and property claims, but take on a false narrative of traditionalism and ethnic division
that's what we're saying

Maybe because a whole bunch of people being wrong about something doesn't make it right?

Praise be to the Lord at least

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What kind of Egoist would I be if I believed all female-centric concepts were spooks

Even Stirnir and Zizek are against idpol. When will leftypol wake up?

[citation needed]
or did you ask all the women on that indian rally for thier income?
yeah though so…

A spooked one.

That's why I'm bigger on Proudhon than Stirner

Are you a Kantian?

Well yes, which is why so many comrades want to cut off the head of the snake. No matter how many social justice issues we try to solve in this broken system, capitalism will exacerbate these problems and progressives will get nowhere.

This.

But to what extent are these struggles taking on a character that's distinctly proletarian and anti-capitalist? Even most of the left-wing movements in Latin America aren't so much libertarian socialist as they are indigenist/indigenous nationalist. Even Hugo Chavez won a good amount of support by appealing to Venezuela's black and indigenous populations.

Homosexuality exists in nature and predates class in human societies.