Can we have a vegetarian vegan general?
Im vegetarian.
The only reason im not vegan is because I lift and exercise and I need to drink milk and whey protein.
I think we need to start pushing a vegetarian agenda to /fit/ and other places. There's no reason to be eating meat in 2016.
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Oh boy, there's a reason we don't talk about it user. Usually starts off chains of butthurt from both sides.
I'm a vegetarian too and I'm not a vegan because I just think that's silly and too far and vegans themselves have put me off. I don't do it so much for ethical principles so much as subjective ethics.
I don't think we need to start pushing it. It's happening slowly. 8% of people in some first world country either UK or America are vegetarian now. 7% vegan.
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I am not sure why meat eaters get so sensitive about the entire issue. As a long time /fit/izen its very easy to get your nutrition with other methods naturally and supplements. Meat is extremely cancerous because of the way they process it.
Meat eaters arguments always boil down to "what is right or wrong?" Or chicken tastes so good xD yum yum don't you wish you had this? xD
Vegans get quite annoying, so we never end up really being able to have a nice discussion.
Also they don't like challenging their biases, like most humans. There are things that both of us are wrong on and refuse to change on user, I'm sure. It's a chore to overcome bias.
D E G E N E R A T E
This is why no one like "vegetarians." There's nothing wrong with not eating meat. Personally I avoid it as much as possible. But I don't make it an identity and go around sticking my nose into others lifestyles like some self-satisfied twat.
It's literally a dead animal. Why wouldn't you try to stop a genocide?
Drugs and alcohol hurts the user only while these we defenseless mammals and fish. That's wrong
undialectical af
Labels are important.
It's not Yui you're talking to.
Sometimes, when they aren't idpol.
I know it isn't yui, and I know that the assertion that drugs hurt only their users is complete BS, and I shouldn't have to explain why. It's actually dialectics here, I can't help it if you don't understand the word.
Also, morality isn't an argument for vegetarianism any more than it is one against it.
im vegetarian, but hopefully cultured meat will hit the market soon enough. i dont think eating meat is that bad necessarily, but factory farming is pretty gross.
i really wish i had some land so i could keep some cows and chickens for eggs and milk.
Vegetarian here. I'm disappointed this thread is isn't really much of a general.
I've got chickens. It's pretty nice. Want to see any?
sure
You know what would make a good vegetarian general? Posting things like nutritional aid information, how to eat healthy on a budget, etc. instead of whining about how those silly meat-eaters don't acknowledge their sin and just up and change already. I'd bet there'd be a lot of people more interested if threads like this were geared towards helping people out, instead of being condescending.
Solidarity with our bovine brethren!
Tbh this is my first post on leftpol.
I wanted to start a vegetarian general on cuckchan but couldn't find a place but decided this place might be good.
Its literally the first thread ever as a "general". I didn't think people would give a shit.
Sorry if I took to long. I dropped and lost my flashlight and had to look for it. But here
you fucked up
cute
Oh, no, you're fine. I was just lamenting the fact that the thread had already turned into vegans/vegetarians arguing with non vegans vegetarians.
I'm probably going vegetarian soon. Avoiding red meats and eating more soy can apparently help in transitioning from mtf
nice cock
ayyyyyy
I knew about the red meat thing, but this is the first I've heard about soy. Got any more info on that?
cool
keep it going
Transitioning FROM mtf?
As in detransition or you're transitioning? Soy does give you estrogen but your bio body is male and that makes too much soy cancerous.
Honestly that's only if you're eating 300+ grams of soy each day for years and years on end.
Whereas red meat 50g a day is enough for a heightened risk at colon cancer
This is Holla Forums, post or create /veg/ for a better place for this discussion.
Cuckchan and Holla Forums are so easily triggered just mentioning vegetarians makes them froth at the mouth and start posting strawmen to hate. I don't mind vegetarians, less methane-spewing cows need to be grown for them to eat.
Thank you. He's a barred rock, about a year and a half old. My photography teacher give him to me, since she lives in the city and they aren't allowed to keep roosters there. Name is cookie, apparently.
not eating meat is a political issue because animal agriculture is destroying this planet more than anything else
The thing with that is that there's literally hundreds of dead boards and the general would die quickly with a topic like this.
Very true. It's amazing how much meat eaters aren't aware about how bad the food they are eating is. The ingredients are on the bag im not sure why they aren't just googling what they are eating and surprised that they are eating shit.
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Odd considering environmentalism is a big part of NS. Surely they have heard about Savitri Devi.
soy probably wont have much of an effect on your hormone levels. i did hear one case, but i think the guy had underlying issues to begin with and was eating tons of soy.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
im not sure about red meat.
A lot of hit has to do with economics. Healthier food is more expensive, and more difficult to get your hands on.
Ayy, comrade, just a quick heads up here. When you say stuff like that, you're probably going to get angry responses from meat eaters. At least in my experience.
yeah. i heard california was trying to pass a law that would give low-income people a discount at the farmers' market for fresh fruits and veggies.
Yeah I know I have a somewhat superiority thing about it since im into fitness and there's just zero reason to not be a vegetarian so it annoys me but you're right I should be more chill and rational.
that comes across as very condescending. people like the taste of meat, and some meat like fish is very healthy.
this. the biggest thing when you're trying to convert meat eaters is to not be condescending.
Fuck off greeny cunt, meat is tasty and I will never stop eating it until they ban it.
Tbh I totally see where vegetarians are coming from but for various reasons becoming a vegetarian would be difficult for me and synthetic meat is on the way anyway. Saluting you guys though.
Hey I thought becoming veggie would be difficult as well when I was considering it. In hindsight it's one of the easiest changes I've ever made. 1 year and sitll going, haven't had meatcravings at all
Well what I meant by "various reasons" is Puerto Rico is kind of a food desert, almost all of our food except what you'd get fresh is imported from the mainland because our agriculture was castrated by the governor before last and a lot of it isn't very good. We don't get any good soy or substitute proteins and packaged goods are often shit by the time they get here, at least the American ones, the like Mexican ones tend to keep OK.
You should buy dried beans in bulk (chickpeas etc…)
But yeah wow sounds tough man, hows the complete federal taking over of PR going?
Hasn't started yet. Don't know why.
We're all scared and pissed. Great work happening here, though. The Socialist Front and the two or three other orgs have been hyperinflated by S█████' campaign and PROMESA happening at the same time. I've done a lot of things in a lot of places, even those Michigan protests and OWS, but I can taste the change this time. It's coming to both of us.
Beans is a good idea, though. I already eat shit tons of them.
why has "dead animals" only become a problem recently? if it were so very wrong and so very disgusting then surely someone would have noticed significantly earlier.
If you're going to be a vegetarian or vegan you might as well take it a notch up and grow some of your own food.
I don't really support hormonal and surgical transitioning stuff unless it's a last resort having anti-psychotics and anti-anxiety meds and therapy tried first but if you eat grapefruit regularly it will increase estrogen levels in your body. Don't do it if you are on any meds or do drugs other than weed though it also makes meds more potent so it can be dangerous to mix.
That makes no sense. There is no benefit in growing your own food.
It's sometimes cheaper, you know what actually goes on it and it's better than buying from a supermarket since you're not giving cash to porky. Otherwise you could go to farmers markets if they are where you live.
I like using certain soy products like soy milk and soy cream because I've found that they taste better than regular milk products but I still eat meat with them because I've found that the alternative is not that good.
I'm doing this wrong aren't I?
i was a vegetarian once, now that i've eaten good wagyu beef i can't go back
but one thing i don't get as far as vegetarianism goes is why there's no real moral attack on nature
with the speciesism thing it's like you're damned both ways; you're either a human exceptionalist who thinks humans are morally superior, you're a human exceptionalist who thinks humans can eat other animals but not each other, or you're a human exceptionalist who thinks humans should change nature to meet human morals
some people probably are just vegans because they think it's more sustainable, but the moralistic ones are abit weird and they seem like idiots
I like almond milk better than soy. I still drink normal milk all the time though. Maybe if I found it cheaper id drink it more.
I'm not a vegetarian because I already struggle with gains, but from an ecological standpoint it's very good to veg out and I respect those who do even if they often look like total nu males. To compensate I bike everywhere instead of using motorized transport, which is probably why I struggle with gains.
Clear warning signs of an identitarian.
Pissing people off for their consumption habits is a road to nowhere; it's liberal territory. The last thing you want to do is start screaming that people who eat meat will face the gulag if they don't change their decadent bourgeois ways.
The whole issue of how animals and plants are farmed and consumed is one that definitely needs addressing, for reasons of public health and environmental impact, which is why, also, it shouldn't be left up to a bunch of vegans on a moral crusade.
Also,
is a spook. It is absolutely shocking that people could give less of a fuck about how people are treated, yet become absolutely livid when animals are involved. You get activists chaining themselves to processing equipment in protest while ignoring the horrid conditions of the people who work there, typically for a pittance. Fuck that shit.
It's the wrong mindset to think you have to replace meat with substitutes. You should just make stuff that doesn't have any meat in it in the first place, everybody nows soyburgers suck.
Make some falafel or something
You can be a vegan and excersise, eat lots of brown rice and dark green leaves and potatoes you'll be fine. I'm just researching how to make the step from vege to vegan now
One should feast on the flesh of thine enemies.
Basic logic dictates that it would be wasteful to do otherwise :P
Before people start with the bugbear of "diseases," you should remember that cooking meat started before homo sapiens sapiens and no one told them to eat flesh raw.
eat the rich huh
i like it
cool an idpol thread
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Animals are my property. I eat them because it pleases me to do so.
You can be into exercise and be ok but to be optimal you need animal protein. Protein is comprised of 21 amino acids and if you don't eat animal products than you're missing out on amino acids which do more than build muscle like regulate mood and other natural functions.
Hmm
You seem spooked.
Vegetarian here. Fuck off with this shit, my personal ethical choices are in no way connected to an overarching theory of economic reform to empower the masses (leftism). Preachy weirdo idiots need to stop trying to attach their trashy pet cause to everything.
Rude sage
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You (and other people in this thread) are just calling for some faggot to yell le read a buk.
There are tons of very convincing arguments that 1. humans are the only species that should be held morally responsible for their actions, and 2. that killing / enabling the murder of animals capable of suffering is an immoral act.
You don't need any more than that for a moralistic approach to veganism.
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I have tons of issues with the meat industry and agree that abolition would be a net positive for everybody but I don't have any issue with consuming meat because the animal is already dead. Also ethical consumerism under capitalism is a myth, humans are animals too.
holy shit, I went to gym with the second rightmost guy once
Woops forgot to remove my shitposting flag
When someone claims milk shops are immoral.
Ethics ≠ Morals
no one here is confusing morals for ethics
HITLER was a vegetarian.
I don't get why anybody except teens and hippies would want to be a judgmental vegan tbh, I usually try and keep it as low-key as possible and not make a thing about it, even then the following discussions with people who eat meat (especially normies) are fucking unbearable. At this point I actually prefer the bad jokes or even ridicule over hearing someone try and justify their choices to me for the 1000th time with "animal-friendly farms" and other related liberal ethical consumption meme shit
Also other vegetarian pooranons, hit me up with simple/cheap recipes (or good sources for them)
Morals are behavioral standards constructed culturally, vegetarianism has very little moral backing in the West.
"Killing things is wrong" has philosophical substantiation and is therefore an ethical stance, not a moral one.
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Is there " philosophical substantiation " for it not based on MUH FEELINGS?
thank you Genosse I was needing laff
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NO.
DELETE THIS THREAD.
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the most retarded, head up your own ass western liberal thing ive read here pretty much ever, of course accompanied by anilmao schoolgirl of chinese shingshong
I think ive heard that laughable term before but I clearly repressed the memory
Is this what happens to your brain when you suffer from protein deficiency? Ive had periods when I didnt eat well and things were murky to say the least
I see.. let me try.
did I do it right?
i would just argue that a level of suffering is worth a tradeoff for the pleasure of living
correct, the one can not exist without the other
sorry for saging you veggietards, by accident and because of the angusposter
but then the same would apply to animals?
Most cattle would not live if not for meat production, and I have seen happy cows. :(
I'm mostly a vegetarian because it's cheaper to buy beans than meat.
Some studies claim vegetarians live longer than non-vegetarians, but I'm not sure if it's simply using shitty hormone-filled McDonalds burgers or lean meat and fish as a comparison. Japanese eat the latter kind of meat and their average lifespans are among the longest.
not necessarily. It really just depends on if you know how to cook or not. Nuts and rice are cheap as shit and way healthier than the fuckin canned chicken noodle soup filled with sodium most prole are eating.
hey fuck off, stop pretending to be me.
I don't shitpost.
How are they not?
Hard mode : don't reply "dialectics".
The usual arguments against "Ethical Consumption" (Which I agree with) are the following: 1. It's near-impossible and certainly impractical for the consumer to make any sort of judgment on the moral good or evil of every - or even any - product they consume in a capitalist market economy, therefore it's unreasonable to expect people to do this. 2. It has close to no effect, because 3. Market effects make it more difficult for "Ethical Producers" to compete, since the reason unethical production is taking place is because it's more efficient. This means that the "Ethical Consumers" have to front this cost of efficiency, meaning that the "Ethical Producer" can't compete.
None of these arguments hold in the case of vegetarianism and/or veganism.
1. It's comparatively easy for a consumer to evaluate whether the food they buy contains animalistic products / is meat.
2. By virtue of it already being a movement of significant size, it already has - and will continue to have - an effect on the rate of production.
3. Non-animalistic food is already being produced in large amounts, is more efficient, and is more environmentally friendly by virtue of having a smaller resource cost for the same nutritional and energy value for the consumer. As a bonus, it's also cheaper, making it easy for a vegetarian diet to compete.
Give me a single source of a philosophical institution, or philosophical authority describing the difference. Actually, give me a single example of such an authority saying there *is* a difference.
Moral anti-realism is not an un-controversial claim. While there are arguments in support, I think most people raising their voices in support are really just stupid illiterates, so I'm going to assume the same of you.
"Not living" is not the same as dying. Otherwise, why are you not spending every waking moment carrying/birthing children or knocking bitches up?
also is some not-an-argument tier bullshit. Just because you can use different assumptions to reach different conclusions, using valid reasoning, it does not disqualify the original reasoning as invalid.
If you agree with the reasoning method, you need to disagree with the assumptions – which you obviously do, but don't care to argue.
YUM
Real proles eat meat
Oh wait, I just realized you were explaining what you regard as the difference between morals and ethics, not making a metaethical claim. Disregard what I was saying.
Most of those guys are on steroids, but you're right. You can get all the protein you need from vegetable sources.
Like clockwork:
Vegetarianism is bourgeois
yeah but how is letting a lion eat a deer or whatever fine then?
There are multiple ways to convincingly argue that that's not a problem.
The most simple one is that the lion requires the deer meat to survive, and preventing the lion from murdering a deer is akin to murdering the lions that will otherwise starve.
oops, the lions will of course starve if you deprive them of deer, not if you don't.
so the suffering there just doesn't matter at all because it's supposedly necessary?
if humans calculated how much meat would be eaten in the wild and then farmed that much, how's there a difference?
it just seems like a way for humans to feel like they're doing the right thing if literally the same thing is happening in nature but it's somehow ok
why do lions need to exist?
how is this anything other than the non aggression principle for animals?
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Every time
Also the wrongness of murder is mostly deontological.
all mammals are self aware
all mammals are capable of suffering
I don't give a fuck about other species, if i cared about every living thin dying i would not put a step outside because that would kill bugs.
PLANTS HAVE SOULS TOO!
technically neither the user I responded to nor I made any conclusions. But agreed, no arguments where made.
No, but both are absence of suffering, and the original asumption was
if new annons statement
is true, then the original assumption is wrong.
I didn't understand the reasoning behind this. Gonna assume it's a non-argument.
you do realise that meat eating is historicaly the most bourgeois dietary choice ever, right?
That's what fruitarianism is for.
Depends on your meta-ethical stance, but I belong to the group who thinks that the 'act' of not-preventing murder is not equatable to committing murder / actively acting in a way that results in murder. Which means that what you bring up is an entirely separate issue from vegetarianism / veganism.
See flag.
Then why are you not a vegetarian? Being a vegetarian lowers the amount of plant-life murder by a significant amount. To feed a cow until slaughter requires a much higher amount of plant-"murder" than to provide as much human food as the cow would have.
I'm putting scare quotes around murder because I'm not a panpsychist, but I haven't really read shit about it so somebody might convince me someday.
You're being incharitable if you assume that "we should avoid suffering" means "we should always supremely avoid suffering".
I agree with you that "we should avoid suffering" is not a very strong grounding for ones ethical beliefs, but that isn't enough to say that a strong grounding doesn't exist (Assuming from your flag that that is what you mean to argue), or that "we should avoid suffering" is not sufficient for cases of low moral complexity.
It was mostly a joke but the reasoning was something like:
The following is assumed:
You (>>829833) then posit that:
My joke then is that an argumentum ad absurdum of your post:
I'm vegetarian originally because of the environmental impact of large scale cattle raising. Still need to do research and see if populations needed to support dairy production are as environmentally disastrous.
Yes, I was trying to show the weakness of the statement by showing the consequences of interpreting it as a moral absolute.
I obviously don't believe in any sort of objective moral, but I'm sure some consistent moral rules in favor of veganism could be devised.
Actually I don't think it is. Going to the gym, giving or getting a tattoo, practicing any type of sport where some one loses, doing housework, "we should avoid suffering" is a terrible grounding no matter what moral complexity.
Oh, yes I sort of see it now, got a bit confusing. That I was advocating maximizing pleasure in stead of minimizing suffering. It was not my intention.