Free Speech and The Left

Hello.
I have one, very pressing question:
How come the people who truly allow people to say whatever they want and engage in 100% open debate on any issue so long as they don't break any law or dox users or such tend to be right-wingers?

I'm thinking of internet platforms, which have this disturbing trend of creating and *embracing* the idea of echo-chamber environments.

On the same note, language policing is a big thing on leftist platforms, with tons of idpol added in for taste.

I personally am not a right-winger, but I find myself forced to talk on those platforms, because I make an exaggerated, obviously facetious comment about "niggers" and I get banned from any lefty place of discussion.

So I have to choose between carefully tailoring my every sentence so as to not disturb the sensitivities of mods OR talk to trumpsters about how good an idea a wall with Mexico is.

What's the cause, what's the solution?

Thank you.

Other urls found in this thread:

bunkermag.org/real-speech-free-speech/
myredditnudes.com/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Oh the horror

that is almost never the case, try posting on Holla Forums. what they really mean is 'freedom of speech that agrees with me'. Both sides are as hypocritical as each other.

Because when you're a loser with no hope you have no options to exclude. They don't say this shit when they're winning.

Actually, I think you're right.
In right wing circlejerks, non-right wing views that don't get shouted down get banned in my experience.

Not my comrades!

Unless you go plebbit, I'll have to think you say more than "niggers".

So… You think a wall is a good idea? You're not being clear..

The cause is Urbanization.
People have no a set amount of safety and do not face reality as much. You see it in people talking about "sterilizing stray CATS". Or Yandere Dev adding killing a kitten in a game about killing schoolgirls and people be like "I cannot kill animals!".
Oversensitivity created by Urbanization.

Solution?
Well… we could try going Edgy .. but then Pol happens…
We could try to be rational.. but then both pol and tumblr attack us…

I guess the solution is not to care? .. I don't know.

Holla Forums has never doxed innocent people.

(checked)

Zizek talks about this, it's one thing he hates about the Left, their constant need to micro-manage everything in life including speech.

Just noticed le ebin satan trips
I have yet to read Zizek.

Haha, nice joke OP

read this:

bunkermag.org/real-speech-free-speech/

Hopefully one day you will come to the realization that there is more than one place for public discourse (yes that means outside of Holla Forums)

On the other hand, start joking about what pol holds sacred and see how far you go before the ban.

Or … you know.. joke to a right wing christian about relegion…

But would you agree that, in general, MORE bans for bullshit reasons happen on left-leaning platforms than right-leaning platforms?

I'm saying that it's easier, a lot easier, to trigger left wing, socjus mods than right wing mods.

I think Trump is an idiot and all of his policies are stupid or at the very best plain inefficient, unfair or bad. That being said, at least I don't get banned for saying that.

It only seems that way because most of the censorship today in the west is done towards views that would be considered "politically incorrect"(a vague term but you get what I mean).


these seem pretty bullshit to me.

How does that even relate to or refute anything I said

All of your "attacks" of my position were targeted specifically at Holla Forums.

wew lad

Free speech is a fucking meme.

I used to be like most of you edgy anarchists in here thinking we should allow all speech to be heard in our happy sunshine utopia. But the facts are truly free speech has never existed in any society ever. All speech is moderated by rules, social context, decorum, and political power. And no I'm not a SJW that believes saying "nigger" is the greatest crime humanity can commit on the internet or outside it. But the concept of free speech is nonsense, and has only ever existed as "moderated" speech. The illusion that it exists is only formed by the absolute lack of any real political power by the one who embraces it as means who demands change through public discourse.

Trips.
Also, you're a moron, or, more accurately, that drivel of yours is moronic.

Why is that? Let's analyze!

First off: there is a GIANT difference between the kinds of interactions between human beings in real life (where things such as body language, tone, personality are possible) and the kinds of interactions that can be seen online. Online, the kind of moderation that you see IRL has less to no justification, because it is an anonymous, a-personal space.

But the core of the issue is that just because free speech has never truly been achieved in its full meaning, that somehow means we can't even strive for it or dislike examples of this principle being violated.

Plus, let me take a moment to point out the fact that you're calling out the idea that people should be able to say what they want so long as it's not truly dangerous as "edgy"

Problem isn't freedom of Speech.
Problem is consequences.

If I start calling you a pedo and tell everyone you are a pedo and try to convince them that you are… then my freedom enters the field of your freedom. And this should have consequences.

On the other hand, saying "Nigger" in a chan, or infrigment of the dead and so on, is not as clear on what punishment they deserve.

For if we are to be despooked, then you cannot sent someone to jail cause he wrote "I support rape culture" on the internets.

Capitalism is incompatible with what most people think of when they talk about freedom of speech. Never mind the capitalist police states that have killed millions for the crimes of being leftists, under capitalism most platforms for speech are privately owned and controlled and subject to said owners whims,

Just look at the latest alt-right cause celebre, Milo yannapannawhatshisface getting his twitter account banned. Now Milo wasn't banned because twitter doesn't tolerate right wing views, otherwise he would've been banned years ago. He got banned for being involved in a shit fest which broke the rules of twitter.

Twitter shit canned him because twitter stands to lose money if it gets a reputation for being a place where people go to throw shit at each other. So Twitter sets down rules which result in what the alt right see's as their right to freedom of speech.

Now the alt right gets mad when they aren't allowed to use any given platform to spread Nazi memes, white supremacy or holocaust denial or whatever. But it was a private entity, not the government that stopped them from doing it. And most of them advocate for a system in which almost all of society is run on those grounds which got them banned.

No, you don't understand, I already made the distinction between speech that actually caries weight (power) and non-threatening speech.

The free speech we have here on the chans or whatever other website is almost completely non-threatening, it carries no weight and virtually little to no actual political context (that has an effect on real political situations). Saying that the Holocaust was a lie or engineering ways to hurt the system don't fucking matter, because everyone knows that on records the Holocaust happened due to being it taught to him or that you don't really mean what you say when you claim "you are engineering to bring the system down". Both are non-threatening forms of free speech and therefore not truly free, because the marginalized or a minority opinion as always doesn't have a venue or outlet. Dangerous speech to the social order is almost always banned or moderated.


It doesn't exist because no free or enslaved society has ever lived without laws. You say that "free speech" is some form ideal that we should strive and I don't disagree with you, since truth can only survive in a free unmoderated environment. But another aspect of this is that openness of speech cuts both ways, this became so apparent even to the first Democracy which was Athens, under which there was freedom of opinion, but were also those who had tyrannical or oligarchic tendencies were exiled from the city under a public vote.

Should read
So Twitter sets down rules which result in what the alt right see's as their right to freedom of speech being violated.

Politics 2016

Websites are privately owned so who owns it can dictate how it is used.

Makes me wonder what an open source democratically run site would be like though.

sure

Why articles like this always narrowly focused on political speech? Freedom of speech does not include only political speech.

All the censorship on the internet is justified by property rights
We are against property

No one is against personal property and websites aren't private property, they are web property which is a type of intangible property. It's technically not a physical location and the servers can be moved around meaning the servers are personal property so no way can it be private property even though it has records of ownership like private property has. Considering how people buy space on these servers if they don't own them themselves or even if they do people do create accounts with their own information and words that means websites are already semi-collective property in a way. It's complicated though so you cant use property alone for much of a basis on who owns what since it's not clear cut.

If you had it so no content can be removed that means internet communities will fall apart from lack of control of who uses the sites which will flood with people like those on Holla Forums and all websites filled with tons of spam from idiots and spam bots and gross images from trolls that are up for eternity. If you let everyone control the coding on the sits they can delete the entire sites. If you go for a democratic ban system you basically are just making something worse than Reddit up and down voting. See how stupid that is?

Things should be changed in a few ways though. You should be able to have some control over deleting your data from a sites servers except for mutual conversations since they are as much yours as they are the person you were talking to. You should be able to have a way to collect your data from the servers to have your own copy even if you were banned or if it was deleted within a certain time frame so that means everyone can have their own data backup and save memories. Of course this would be easier to do with the right technology so it can be automatically backed up to your own server or drive. Also artwork and photos and music you post you should have some sort of creative commons license for instead of the site owning it like how Facebook or DeviantArt does that makes them able to profit off your work and personal photos.

They don't.

Idpol is reactionary center or right-wing. IMO - right-wing. Just because hardcore Jews and Nazis hate each other doesn't make one of them Left.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Your ignorance and getting yourself educated.

...

left/pol/ maybe. Funpost central you can say whatever the fuck you likee. This was true of forums before Holla Forums and /new/ too, with tinfoil sites allowing free speech where Revleft and the likes had policy against it.

I literally was just banned from Holla Forums for anti-trump sentiments. Like, half an hour ago, for the sake of proving a point to another Holla Forumsyp posting here because they banned /him/ for being anti-trump.

4pol or 8pol?

8/pol/.

Figures. Funpost central is 4pol. Try there. Daily commie threads but you gotta be ready for 200 posts of 'CUCK'.

then why would I want to go there? ever?

I made an anti trump thread there and I'm not banned. I basically brought up the fact he is a shill and has a lot of close relations to jews and has strong zionist views

You won't get banned. And the other 100 replies may be more interesting.

How long ago? Care to link it?

Go and criticise Trump on Holla Forums, then tell me that the right wing encourage open debate.

The fact is that very few people actually support free speech. A lot of gays were supportive of free speech when they wanted to stand up for their rights against a government who would censor them, but now most of them want homophobic comments to be illegal. Holla Forums cry about free speech whenever they get banned from other boards, but they've turned their own board into the least free place on Holla Forums.

I'm not sure there's any achievable solution. You'd have to convince humanity to stop being short-sighted historically illiterate hypocrites.

On the 13th but I can't find it now.