Thoughts on the migrant crisis in Europe?

If Merkel cared for people, she would help get their countries fucked.

Do what the majority of European citizens actually want, and stop pretending that war refugees are a plausible excuse for flooding our reserve army of labor with foreign slaves.

Instead, admit the fact that Europe could help more people, more effectively, by directing funding toward refugee efforts in countries that are economically, geographically, and culturally closer to their embattled homes.

Also, admit to the fact that fact that trying to house refugees in Europe is, at best, a narcissistic act of virtue signalling that has directly and unequivocally siphoned from funds that would have otherwise gone to foreign aid.

A REFUGEE IN EVERY HOME IS THE ONLY SOLUTION

But that would create more refugees and people living in fear, user!

How so? You do realize that the opinions and stances of the militias in Lebanon in no way reflect the stances of the gov right?

A combination of imperialist proxy war and Islamist ideology has created a humanitarian disaster in Syria. We should open the doors to those fleeing war and poverty - but we should also take steps to end that war and poverty through proletarian revolution.

*She wouldn't

…
I need sleep… DAMN YOU CAPITALISM FOR MAKING ME MAKE MISTAKES!

German here

I feel like committing suicide every day because of it tbh

Another factor that is ignored a lot by the right, who want to portray Germany as lefty loony liberal PC gone mad etc and the left, to whom it seemingly hasn't even occurred, is that Germany needs to solve its population crisis fucking quicktwice. They're barreling towards a level of population growth so small that it cannot sustain capitalism or their ageing population, and they can't even pay the Germans to have kids, after a decade or two of trying. They offer around $2000 a year per kid, free childcare from 3-16 and some other bennies but nope, Germans want to work.

Go look at their population growth statistics on google data. I'd link it but I can't be bothered after having to argue this point with my retarded countrymen who think pointing out the reason someone is doing something is the exact same thing as condoning it. Seriously never talk politics with someone from England, the English in a twist of poetic fate have some of the worst reading comprehension in the entire English speaking world.

I'm not alt right

...

I'm sorry my support for refugees triggers idiots who think they can keep their welfare state if only they block out those damn islamig ayyrab hordes

No fucking shit. But the actual problem is that nether the politicians nor their Boomer supporters wants to admit is that the system is unsustainable, and that - at best - importing millions of foreigners (whether they're paragons of whiteness or Pakistani villagers) simply kicks the can down the road.

It's much easier to indulge in fantasies about refugees graciously repaying German hospital by working like dogs to pay Boomercuck pensions until they themselves retire (LOL, as if).

And I thought the fucking lolbertarians were delusional with "lol why care about peak oil, we'll just invent alternatives - or worst case scenario civilisation collapses but hey, at least oil demand will equal supply then! :^)"

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Oh look, the oldest immigration maymay chestnut in the books: Eternal growth, with a side-order of pension scare. Almost as ancient and hoary as "jobs natives won't do" and "union labor is lazy". Are you gonna' shit on Japan, too?

Ever heard of a "population correction"? Eternal growth is physically impossible, and population density in Germany is already higher than desirable. Also, GDP/capita is already so high, even an order-of-magnitute increase in pension pay-ins from younger Germans would be perfectly tolerable, especially since such a state of affairs would only last until the aging baby boom died off, and the population stabilized at a long-term sustainable distribution.

What's needed isn't immigrants, what's needed is to weather the demographic storm, and emerge more sustainable from it.

Are you just saying "muh growth is the false justification used for immigration/natalism" while decrying its dishonesty, or are you truly gullible enough to believe Germany has to drown itself in (native/immigrant/whatever) flesh to survive?

Shit or get off the pot, you haven't stated an opinion - just animaymay posting.

I feel like it's a bit of a no shit Sherlock type deal too, but it's never actually fucking mentioned. The boomers can go fuck themselves, it's a pity they've done as good a job instilling a sense of civic duty in the youth as they have creating a sustainable planet. I feel like we're going to outcuck the boomers.

No. Fuck this. Who says this? How is it unsustainable? It is an empty threat. A spook like the national debt "my God we have to pay it all off now or we die". And Germany last time I checked had a massive surplus, so even that is done away with and it is only a question of willpower, not resources. The refugees can easily be integrated and even guaranteed jobs without displacing native workers if the economy was run along post keynesian lines with a government as employer of last resort.

Jesus almighty neoliberals are retarded.

Lebanon porkies are only kept at bay by Hizbullah. Jordan is porky as fuck.

784107 here, I'm agreeing with you you fuckwit.

Probably because it's political suicide to take it seriously, as opposed to "lol don't think too hard about it, immigration will fix it, plz vote for me in the 2017 elections"

Where does the population growth end? This sounds like the exact same sort of handwaving I'm talking about

Jfc

HK has a pop density of 6,735
Germany has a pop density of 235

This according to statisticstimes.com/population/countries-by-population-density.php

You want to seriously look at me and say

?

Okay, sorry bro, no harm no foul. Like I said, I honestly couldn't tell whether you were denouncing lies, or believing them.

Post-Keynesianism can be used wisely (soften the death spasms of capitalism as more socialist reforms are injected in), or it can be used foolishly (soften the immediate pain response as harsher and more irreparable forms of capitalism are instituted),

Increasing immigration under any circumstance would be extremely foolish.

It's possible, but why do it? What imaginable benefit is there?

Furthermore, the earth is a finite object, we must halt population growth eventually. Why not now?

All that matters is WILL. Really all that matters is will and policy. Everything else is "It's too much effort" or "I don't like ayyrabs" and those aren't arguments.

Show me post keynesian literature that says "this stops working after 100 million people in one country ayy lmao" protip you can't.

Population growth automatically slows and can even drop to near zero as countries industrialize. Thanks to the fugging neolibs and free trade scams this outcome is certain so scaremongering about population growth doesn't make sense.

I don't really care about this thread, but your avatarfagging needs to stop if you want anyone to take you seriously

Look, I agree that population will naturally stabilize as prosperity and wealth increase, but remember humanity isn't a machine, it's a political struggle of different agendas vying with each other. Sure 10 billion max by 2100 isn't the worst thing that could happen, but why not shoot for something better if it's possible? Less density, means more prosperity, means less density, etc…

On the other hand, remember that some policies (like DUMPING DESPERATELY POOR AND CLASSCUCKED SLAVES INTO THE MOST PROSPEROUS AND ENLIGHTENED NATIONS OF THE WORLD) will retard or reverse helpful trends, and the worst-case scenarios are VERY BAD.

Even leaving aside long-term projections, in the here-and-now, anything that attacks the bargaining position of labor will force politics further into the hands of the capitalists labor struggles against. i.e.: the right-wing.

So, the conclusion till now, IMO, is capitalism cannot continue, as it requires for people to work in order to pay for pensions, but not enough growth means less positions and less pensions. If I am correct, this is because automation and will get worse.

GREECE :^) also has a demografic issue and the majority of debt that wasn't made because of army equipment that EU and US sold by giving loand and so on, capitalism doesn't work and so on, was made to pay pensions.

So, why not growth?
Well… Supply and DEMAND. When there is not enough demand and you don't create it… economy goes down. Only neolibs don't see it.

Now, if south europa can't buy, or buys from china, how is germany and the north to sell?

So, even if refugees or immigrands come, what are they to do?

You see, in the end the problem is not immigration or refugees or whatever.

IT'S CAPITALISM!

Oh shit, I didn't even see this reply before
here
Don't shoot the messenger. The neoliberals need constant growth and they want the refugees to help facilitate that. You can see under your post I point out (or at least infer) eternal growth is pretty dumb, but since striving for eternal growth is the aim of the game I'm not going to argue for some hypothetical world I would like to live in.

Neoliberals don't want their country to overcome adversity through bettering their country, they want their country to be neoliberal. So far the only other reason I've seen for opening up to refugees is "The EU is virtue signalling" - fucking lol to that. That's the line the people letting refugees are pushing and the one everyone takes because it's warm and fuzzy to talk morality and those opposing it like to feel like the tough guys by making a stand against it, but to say that it's because our system requires constant unsustainable growth is the reason would bring the very system itself into question.

I think I fully understand what you're saying now. You're complaining about the fact that both "sides" of the "conversation" are deadset on ignoring the economic aspects of this, instead corralling all "debate" into the meaningless social aspects.

Regarding your argument here about pragmatism versus idealism, I think immigration isn't an inevitable result of capitalism, but capitalism's last resort after the native citizenry of the 1st-world broke the "natalism ubër alles" brainwashing that held them down for millennia.

Immigration is capitalism's final weapon to avert demographic correction, and roll back the progress we few among the world's proles have made. If we stop immigration, we can cut one of capitalism's final lifelines. If all three of immigration, offshoring, and war can be halted, capitalism will asphyxiate for lack of cheap labor, and be forced to either compromise with us or die.

If the EU bars them off they might take down a Caliphate or two, so immigration is bad.

But that's corporatism user!
No, seriously private pensions are the only way forward, yet a pension crisis is far from triggering the end of capitalism, come on now.

Exactly. It's not triggering any end. It triggers the begining of the end. It makes us go deeper into the cyberpunk distorpia of neoliberalism.

Now, I'm not saying it triggers the end of capitalism.

Am talking about the begining of the end of the world as we know it?

Good points, I don't really look at much from an ideological or idealistic point that often nowadays because it's less stress, effort, and I can laugh when people railroad themselves into a disaster knowing they wouldn't listen anyway.

However, this back and forth has made me realise something I would not have done without it: By changing the narrative of the refugee crisis to being about neoliberalism requiring constant growth rather than the moral piety of neolibs, we not only stop refugees being scapegoated for all their problems, but put the hot potato firmly back in their hands.

Shame we're a bit past time for taking control of that narrative, but I think as things go more and more to shit you're best off starting late rather than never. People may be more likely to listen now that the EU has had a Brexit up its ass.

How does anyone still believe a pension crisis to be plausible? Europeans only spend 14% total of GDP on pensions, with projections of up to 4 percentage points more by 2060.

Anyway, private-only pensions don't work. Unless everyone is legally compelled to save for retirement (and valid "savings" are rigidly defined), there will always be an incentive to skimp on pensions (among both employees and employers) for short-term gains, and then we'll just end up bailing them out at greater expense anyway when retirement comes.

Whether it's the right or the left that does it, killing immigration and offshoring will force politicians and media pundits to acknowledge the realpolitik necessity of a modern economy without neoliberalism in the European proletariat's minds. It's a shame brexit was necessary to wake them up, but it's still happening, and hopefully it will succeed.

Oops, forgot embeds.

They are doing a horrible job at managing where the immigrants should go to. Too many are grouped together when they should be equally spread out to help make them integrate and if they refuse to accept they are in a country with different rules kick them out. They also should be bullying the Gulf States into taking them in because several of those countries are wealthy.

That's a feature, not a bug. Ghettos foster desirable classcuck qualities among immigrants, and keep natives fixated on class-divisive spooks.

If Merkel Had a shred of decency left, she would reopen Auschwitz and send all the Wahhabis and other Fundamentalists there.

I'm sick of these fucking Puritan Fundamentalist faggots in my masjid telling me which way to pee and calling me a "liberal" for not wanting to flat out kill fags, apostates, drinkers, atheists and niqabless women.

I want them all gassed. I want to see them all die choking to death on their melted lungs.

Except none of them work and they've cost the state billions, billions which are provided by taxing porky.

Lol.

Best part is there'll come a day when you're targeted and pinned down for being of their religion.

Don't you just love diversity? (^:

Exactly. I don't want to die because of those Subhumans.

And I don't want the other decent members if my religion to die because of those subhumans. Not a day goes by when I don't consider curbstomping some Deobandi preacher on the sidewalk. I could easily overpower their old, fat, bearded hypocrite asses. Cunts.

difference between leftism and right faggotry
leftists go against imperialism, its economy and military terrorizing the world
right fags take the easy route of faggots and cowards attacking commoners who have left behind their home already fleeing war and exploitation

Holla Forumsacks is full of shit, they are porkies themself or have their ass shoved far up of one thanking their master for the "fair share", jealously defending the porkies ass they're feeding off from against any other perceived "threat"

it really all just comes down to class struggle and them being shiteating fags

there is only one legitimate position to the issue of migration:
it is no issue of its own, only the struggle against imperialism and for socialism answers the social and national question

Do it then?

seconded

If Merkel actually cared she would let refugees come by airplane instead of letting them risk their lives and spending thousands on traffickers.