Here is the reply to that shitty meme that you leftyshits keep posting on right wing sites. Hope that settles it

It's cooperative ownership of a business. All workers are considered to be equally in control, and vote democratically on all decisions (or democratically decide to elect certain members of the workforce to take care of organization if preferred).

This is b8

Every single decision? So instead of working they will sit in a room and vote all day? What's the scope of that there are hundreds of decisions that need to be taken every day in a complex organisation. Not to mention cooperating with other coops.

So like Marxism Leninism?

As in decisions that affect them all personally, not the logistics involved in running the business smoothly.

Since when are M-Ls democratic?

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this is always a shit argument. No bureaucratic agent ever deals with the entirety of their realm, instead they deal with the cases deemed important enough to be considered, everything else is settled "naturally". There's not gonna be a vote on every coffee spill, but rather there may be a vote on how coffee should be handled after the issue becomes noticed by the majority of the workforce.

But logistical decisions can affect them personally. For example at a gold mine what process do we use to refine the gold? This is a highly technical decision so the engineer or the expert has more information than the workers who don't have the inclination or time to study the alternatives.

Also by "democratic" do you mean 51% or full blown consensus (99%)?

In theory they are

supposedly the capitalist bought the land rights to the mining area and a bunch of the equipment that the miners are gonna use. he's taking a risk buying that stuff because he might not necessarily get the money he spent on those tools and on the land rights back.

I am not talking about those inane decisions. I am talking about serious decisions that need to be taken every day. For example where do we "buy" our inputs from? Where do we "sell" our product etc. Especially in the absense of a price system and free exchange they are literally hundreds of very serious decisions that need to be taken every day

ok

They can hire/elect managers and administrators for the daily decision making, but they vote on the important decisions.

Fair enough but do you agree that there is a level of complexity within an organisation after which "democratic" decision making is impossible?

No, I do not agree. All decisions can be parallelized. Democratically divide the decision making process among separate branches to reduce complexity. I don't think this will even be necessary unless an industry is particularly large. Though one case in which this division of democracy will occur is in the entirety of a federation of worker owned industries. It would make sense that each industry in the federation would be in charge of how its resources will be circulated.

No.

Like I said, I understand that democratically deciding every single issue is all but impossible at a certain level of size and complexity, but that democracy is simply incompatible with certain levels of complexity in an organization I disagree with.

So the workers/owners of the coop delegate power to a group of people to run the business hmmm… really makes you think.

Also what if consensus is not reached even after extenisve debate? Do you override the will of some people in the organisation?

Management of a cooperative is purely an administrative position. Managers can be terminated immediately upon referendum of the workers and all decisions they made reversed by referendum.

Absolute consensus isn't required. It's majority rule.

supposedly the feudal bought the land rights to the mining area and a bunch of the equipment that the miners are gonna use. he's taking a risk getting gold to buy that stuff through political intrigues, wars and exploitation of peasants because he might not necessarily get the money he spent on those tools and on the land rights back. that's why we need feudals.

The faggots here don't understand the concept of management, cause the management is hierarchic, man! The managers are ok, It's just they don't have to have the power they have now due to corporate structure.

Doesn't sound very democratic to me could degenerate into tyranny of the majority. Also I am pretty sure that some ancoms talk about the need for absolute consensus.

But there is information assymetry between the management and the workers/owners. They is an inherent risk that managers become self serving. Anyway we could argue for hours.

Anyone have a link with some modern ideas about that. Or some writters I should consider?

No they don't. anyways, right now we're living under tyranny of the minority which is worse and even less democratic.

is providing people the means they need to produce something worth nothing?

No, it's very much intended to be a "tyranny of the majority".

"Tyranny of the majority" is an argument used for individual rights (a concept that I agree with). Insincere right-wing demagogues have attempted to use this term to attack majority-rule based decision making, declining to mention that the alternative is almost always minority rule through some authoritarian apparatus.

Well, I'm not an ancom.

You could simply place restrictions on the management to prevent them from doing so.

Papa Wolff recently wrote this, might be interesting.
amazon.com/Democracy-at-Work-Cure-Capitalism/dp/1608462471

It's an unnecessary middleman when the people could easily do it themselves without needing a boss

The value the entrepreneur adds is identifying the profit opportunity of opening the gold mine making the calculation about its potential profitability and reallocating undervalued resources (factors of production) to higher use.

The value of the capitalist adds is that he abstained from the consumption of goods in order to accumulate the capital and enable through savings the production of capital goods necessary for the operation

kys

WHY THE FUCK DON'T YOU NIGGERS SAGE?

YOU TOO

JUMP OFF A FUCKING BRIDGE

Do you have any arguments or are you just going to glorious uprising like a nigger?

Sure they can but that entails a huge cost. They need to save (lower their consumption or work harder) to get the necessary resources to obtain the capital goods necessary for the operation. Go google what opportunity cost is. Or they can just go sell their labour to someone for a competitive price that's determined by a market.

The whole point of worker federations is to save up the initial investment capital for starting up industries. The surplus value that porky collects from workers allows him to start up new industries, but if workers collect a little bit of their own labor in a federation's reserves, they don't need porky.

Nice meme. I bet you believe that "exploitation" is real. Dude the labour theory of value was debunked in the 1870s.

You deserve to raped to death by a pack of rabid wolves.

what the fuck is your problem?

WHY DO PEOPLE RESPOND TO THIS

WHY, LEFTYPOL

WHY

YEAH OFFICER I TOOK A REALLY BIG RISK ROBBING THIS BANK, I WORKED HARD FOR IT SO PLEASE LET ME GO

Wtf you autist we are having a discussion about economics. Is this r/communism I thought you people were "redpilled" or something

why in the fucking name of all that is good and holy are you continuously bumping this shitty bait thread to the top

untill this post
I assumed the guy was genuinely interested in anarcho-syndicalism

user, if you honestly thought that from the beginning, you may be mentally impaired.

I am not OP you faggot. Seriously why doesn't this shit board have ids?

turns out, he actually isn't OP

If he thought there was going to be serious discussion in this failed abortion of a thread, he'd still be retarded.

If you honestly thought this was a serious economics discussion then you are really just plain stupid I'm afraid.

You basically did the equivalent of telling a bunch of mathematicians you proved maths wrong and then showing them that thing where you divide 1 by 3 and then multiply the result by 3 and get 0.999r. After initial explanations of why you are wrong, we're not going to give this much time of day. We have threads like this all the time

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I'd rather have an anarcho kiddo as a volunteer than a tankie, tbh fam.

Tankies belong in the trash.

Anarcho-tankunist flag when?

Are threads archived?