Do people actually "grow out" of leftism or is it just a myth created by the right wing so they can call us spotty...

Do people actually "grow out" of leftism or is it just a myth created by the right wing so they can call us spotty teenagers?

I never did not did practically my whole family. Is it likely the product of a weak mind? Propaganda?

nor*

Probably never were really into "x" than fam

It means they don't have time for politics any more because of work, family, etc.

Oh please, people change their minds.


That talk is usually used by conservative liberals
towards social liberals, and it may really be true. The social liberals aren't leftists though. Anyways, with actual leftists what could happen is that as they age, they are consumed by the establishment and eventually give in and accept it due to their life and its conditions. Being a leftist is harder because of how critical it is to the status quo. Younger people tend to be idealists whereas older people tend towards their own perceived self-interests. The older folk, who are over-flooded with years-worth of propaganda, need to be convinced that socialism is in their own self-interest and that of their children.

With a change in priorities comes a change in perspective. Or like Strummer once said "death or glory becomes just another story".

I think that if you're in it for the ideology alone, you might as well just leave, that master will be replaced as soon as you find something more rewarding to believe in.

^This

Yes. When I was 13 I was seriously questioning society and even looking into some ideas like anarchism. But society will repress these ideas in a young person. I "grew out" of it and wouldn't become really radicalized until six years later.

My unsubstantiated theory is that as idealists get older, the realities of financial security, the difficulty of any sort of meaningful action, the ignorance of the world, etc. all start to weigh on them, and their young, burning passion for change begins to die out. They might still give lip service to leftist ideas, but will instead become more and more preoccupied with their own safety, wealth, etc. at the expense of their previous selfless desire. Eventually, they end up convincing themselves that their old ideas were "unrealistic" and that the kids going through their old phase will someday wake up to this idea.

At heart though, I don't think most people ever really "stop" being leftist. It's just that the world wears them out.

People might "grow out" of thinking capitalism is better with big government. Most people don't know what socialism is.

And by caring even more about safety, wealth etc, you give up leftists ideals, and embrace capitalism?. You have it backwards. The only people that "grow out" of it are few leftists that got bribed with big money into joining capitalist oligarchy. The rest is at most too tired from being just wage slaves. Still vote socialist tho.

I hear a lot of people say that they "grew out" of socialism.
Coincidentally they never read any books about it or Communism.

I think some of it is simply misunderstanding the ideologies, initially. I didn't really "get" anarchism or syndicalism until I started busting my ass at a shitty job, and realized that there's nothing childish or simplistic about workers' self management.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that socialism was against those things. At least, not in the ultimate sense. But it's hard to deny that if one truly wants to pursue the communist path, they have to be willing to give up political security, close family ties, finances, etc. until the socialist cause is finally completed.

Because let's be honest with ourselves - socialism calls for revolution, often a violent one at that. Even for the most fervent believers, such a prospect is scary. It calls upon the deaths of thousands, and the temporary breakdown of established society. And even if those things weren't guaranteed, even just the idea of radically remaking society can be hard to swallow, since the unknown is always frightening and requires courage and effort to navigate through to the other side.

So I'm not saying that abandoning socialist ideals is the right thing to do, but at the very least it's not hard to see why people might begin to turn away from them, especially in such an apathetic society.

Leftism is not an ideology, it's a diagnosis.

Your mother didn't love you did she?

people changing their mind about things throughout time is a normal thing, some develop a true sense of understanding while some lose their faith. a lot of kids get into leftism because of the aesthetics, and gets bored of it after a while, or to be contrarian, which also changes once the left gain the upper hand as we see nowadays.

how can you think that the left has the "upper hand" nowadays?

It is. It so bloody is, let's not foster self-kidding.

People often do not shed their leftists beliefs over age because they believe the other side is more correct.

They shed them because they realized social change in any significant positive way for mankind is impossible, giving up to cynicism.

He's right though. Usually if someone says they grew out of a particular belief it's because they didn't have a good reason for believing it in the first place. They supported it for superficial reasons, then changed their mind when confronted with contradictory evidence. Anyone who has thought deeply about leftism and understands the economic arguments won't be growing out of it unless someone provides a superior counter-argument, which I've yet to see.

Most of the time that meme applies to liberalism. Liberals tend to be liberals for emotional reasons, and while there's not anything wrong with that per say, liberalism doesn't have any content to it beyond compassion. So that and getting older and more bitter tends to lead to people giving up on even moderately acceptable social issues and just trying to make it through the rest of their life.

Actual leftists might have the same thing happen to them when they see it fail over and over again. The problem with them is that their ideology tends to require the possibility of success. They weren't fortunate enough to be preemptively hardened by nihilism.

And fear, plenty of fear…

Hi eurofag

A lot of beliefs center on a presumed human nature. IE, if you believe people will be able to control their own lives and destinies then you become a leftist, if you think people are stupid and should be put down then you become right-wing.

I suppose that's one way the Right perpetuates its own existence. Be such godawful human beings that leftists abandon ideas of egalitarianism in the face of their behavior.

Rightwingers are thinking about the people that just reveal that they were just shitty life-stylists all along.

Don't you dare speak ill of Pat you piece of shit.

pat is a fucking sellout

Fuck off m8, he didn't give a reason for why he's given up anarchism. And as sad and disappointed as I am in his decision, he still was one of the smartest guys in the punk scene. He most certainly understood anarchism.

It's not unthinkable that he would give up on it given how hopeless the prospects are for anarchism or the left. It takes dedication to be on the road and on the streets living anarchism like he did. It's easy to accuse him of being a sellout, though, if you never do anything IRL.

Nevertheless, in the end, he still just reinforces the stereotype that right wingers espouse, especially about anarchists.

Hey, I'm not defending his decision. I think it's a shit move, but it doesn't surprise me that he's burnt out.

tbh I kind of feel like I'm talking about a dead guy. Pat's music was really inspiring for me when I was first getting seriously into anarchism.

Nevar forgetti Johnny Hobo ;_;

This shit is true, and that's undeniable.

I'm going to twenty-six now, this narrative seems to be starting to appeal to some people I know and some of the older lefties I've met have already moved on towards a centrist-liberal perspective, and some (but fewer) are downright conservatives or libertarians already.

You need to understand that there are many people who start parroting left-wing ideals because that's what they have to do in order to fit in sometimes, particularly in college. Once times goes by and the role they're intended to play is different (the role of professional worker, intelligent parent, respectable member of society) their views change accordingly.

This is, of course, because the thought process behind their initial adherence to Leftism wasn't one of critical thinking or theoretical reading, but the thought process belonging to the very human instinct of wanting to be part of a group, say the right things and get kudos (and possibly pussy) for it.

Self-censorship is a thing. I know I did it when I was younger. People hate outsiders and no one wants to find themselves the object of ridicule, now matter how undeserved. And when getting that job, especially today, means hiding "undesirable" things about you the pressure to conform is immense.

Some do, some don't.


Impotence combined with a an instinct to conform.

When I was a teenager I was a shitty "free-market" lovin pig who thought adult life would be easy as long as I worked hard. Ten years of being a prole destroyed that ideology beyond repair.

I became interested in leftism as I grew older and got a job.

Maybe it's a first world thing since I live in a third world shithole, or a time constraints issue; because I'm not a parent I have time to dabble in politics.

There's truth to it.

Question is: Is it because one becomes more intelligent?

Emphatically, no. I think I side with Cioran here. Older people give off the illusion of being wiser, when in fact they are just more tired and apathetic.They're less likely to be radical as a result.

Intentional or unintentional misinterpretation of data. In the US the older demographics have more republicans. So they say it's the left going to the right. What they don't tell you is there also is more Democrats and less independents. Most of these people were previously independent or third party; so the proper way to interpret things is right-wingers are more likely to give up on independent or third parties. .

People "grew out" of the empty hippie iconography of the Cold War because being an actual socialist meant a visit from the cops.

Its the same as people who say "Listening to X is just a phase".

For some it is a phase to seem contrarian, others genuinely like it.

Spot on

This.

Also - there are loads of old socialists.

As others have said in the thread, there's two reasons people "grow out" of leftism.

1. They were never really leftists in the first place and just wanted to fit in at their college/school/house. They have no strong convictions about anything, they just want acceptance.

2. Without any hope of a leftist revolution in the country, the people in the USA have become bitter and jaded, no longer hoping for more socialism but complete annihilation. A few will go crazy and jump to the right.

The point is that saying someone will "grow out" of something is a condescending and arrogant thing to say, and has no bearing on if that thing they speak of is actually true or not. Truth is truth, regardless of its popularity.

This stereotype really only applies to the Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers, and that was because they were never really "leftist" to begin with, they were just edgy liberals who never read any theory.

Yes. I grew out of leftism when I realized the bitter truth, the working class is never gonna win in this life.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Capitalism is slowly collapsing, it appears to be in an irreversible decline. This is, perhaps, the best time to be a leftist in a century.