Why hasn't the Left been able to produce a subculture in the 21st century?

No. Theey want to create a power vacuum that corporations and the wealthy will take advantage of which will plunge us into neo-feudalism. They are not my allies.

social policies

they are not bigots or racists

I don't care where they stand on social policies. Economics are what matter most.

but that makes them cuddable

Piss on social policies, and their idea of "smashing the state" is to transfer all functions of the government to private interests.

I mean who would you rather have on the right? Stupid bigots and evangelists or libertarians?

Imagine they replaced the Republicans or your typical conservative party in Europe.

I prefer them much more than the common conservative.

I'd rather have neither.

As opposed to the alt-right subculture which attracts intelligent people and makes those who follow it more mature and wise?

We can't always have everything.

The refugee situation made the alt right retarded. They do nothing anymore, except share with each other racist memes in an echo chamber.

le ebin oven meme xDD

Right. That doesn't mean we should work with them or be "best friends". Their goals are diametrically opposed to the lefts.

Alt right here, I can answer your question.
It's because you can't argue with leftists, it's become a mainstream movement for people with mental disorders getting their way.

The only sub culture you can create is moderates who want to be touchy feely without being Marxists. It isn't possible to create a movement out of being moderate, you can only wait for "the left" to lose and the right to eventually swing back into moderate leftism because they're more open minded.

The alt-right is gaining traction. Austria almost elected a literal fascist.

but two of my friends are libertarian

...

Get better friends.

I am onto you, Satan.

what a time to be alive

Syriza
While not entirely leftist, it got a 63% win with their referendum. The political party just didn't use that win out of fear for economic disaster that no one could handle

wew lad

I meant that we are basicall all impotent to change the system.

Why should I make sacrifices in my personal life so hardliners of either extremism don't want to shoot me/put me in the oven?

How do you think a movement is built? By making personal sacrifices. Your apathetic attitude is pretty shit.

Keep riding the fence, bud.

I think groups like the alt right can form something easily because they're simpler than leftism. Lets be real, being alt right basically means you dont like SJW's and that's it. That's all you have to rally behind, not much room to disagree with other people in the general right.

The left on the other hand, well I dont think I need to tell anyone here how much we all hate each other. Being left wing is more than a counter culture to liberals, it's an entire different ideology and system, so we have many sub groups that dont really hand together to create any culture. This is just the nature of leftism, and the only real way around it is increasing our numbers so that that type of division isnt as detrimental.

I have known some, they tend to be ancaps.

...

This is the kind of extremist xenophobia I don't like, fam.

You're a retard and we don't want you anyway

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

And you're the exact kind of milquetoast liberal I don't like.

you are the one arguing that I am not allowed to have libertarian friends, dip

I don't understand what's so good about subcultures or why the Left (the commies, the anarchists, whatever) should have one…it seems actually your problem is that there isn't one COHERENT IDENTITY which makes me even more suspicious since historically the Left has had factional and theoretical differences

Subcultures are for children
We should emphasize that Holla Forums is mature, has a job and can talk to girls.

Not with that job search thread.

Even Holla Forums isn't that pathetic.

what about boys though?

The Right/Left divide on "social" "issues" is merely a tool to get working class people to vote against their interests for the sake of spooks.
The Right Wing going full lolbert is the best thing that could happen to us, sadly the trend has been for the left to go balls deep into IdPol while neglecting class issues and leaving room for Right-populism.

Because we don't exist. There is a huge "leftist subculture," it's made up of fanatical liberal reactionaries that call themselves marxists, socialists, and any other name they think flies in the face of western culture. Actual leftists whose sole focus is ending this class caste system by putting the means of production firmly in the hands of the workers is a tiny minority of the left.

I'm glad Holla Forums exists because without it I would know about 2 people in the entire world who share true leftist views. Even on r/socialism and other major social networking sites we are nearly nowhere to be found. We're far more of a rare breed on the left than Holla Forums is on the right, that's why we have had very little influence on leftist culture, we simply don't exist in any prominent social circles.

The left doesn't have any girls, only trannies

Marxists dont agree with them on any points here.

Like selling children?

Because the left is split between feminists who think #killallmen is an important cause, and dreamers who like Soviet iconography but wouldn't know what an achievable goal was if they tripped over one.

Because no one understands what the left even wants. So, socialism means workers own means of production. So what? I don't want to own means of production.I want to play video games.

Kill yourself.

What you don't understand is that the alt right was born out of gamergate.

lmao no it wasn't
alt righter ama

Do you hate homos?

Yes, it was. What is called "alt right" only exists on the internet btw.

No I don't hate homosexual people, but I do hate the idea of homesexuality and the promotion of it because on average homosexuality has more negative effects on mental health then does not having it.

I personally think it has the same effects as extreme sexual fetishism, and I legitimately feel bad for these people.

I don't hate homos I don't really even care if you are
homosexual are not as long as you're not shoving
an agenda down my throat.

as long* fuck

edgy/10

You could have just said that you don't care tbh.

Next question. Free speech? Yay or nay?

Now I am not a gay rights warrior but don't you think it MIGHT be because the homosexuals are surrounded by people who have historically ostracized them, shunned their behavior? Tell me when was the last time you called someone or something you didn't like queer or gay or a faggot. It'd fuck with my head if I was gay

Also that's just correlation.

There is no casuality chain that leads gay men to insanity. Holla Forums needs to learn the difference between correlation and causality

When I say I hate the idea of homosexuality I mean it at a sexual level. I dislike the promotion of it because it sexually isn't sound (the large amount of std's) and mentally isn't sound.

Free Speech
I personally believe in freedom of speech and the alt right is pretty
socially libertarian at least in my opinion.

The behavior is shunned for a reason, it's not healthy I dislike the fact that homosexuality is promoted because it's against natural law. I understand what your saying about them being ostracized and I'm not going to change the subject, but I don't think there is very much conscious ostracization of homosexuals in the united states. Gays are portrayed on tv in a positive light. Society generally is pretty positive about gays, and even if you use the word gay or faggot you either get yelled at or its because you are appropriating it. Or it's because you unconsciously don't understand that it is a slur against gay people.

next question:
Do you think non-violence is a good principle in society?

Okay we obviously disagree, I think homosexuality is perfectly natural and homos can be obviously "mentally sound". It occurs in nature and it has happened since the start of civilization. Ancient times looked at homosexuality differently and only recently we reached that level of tolerance again.

But what I interests me more than your personal opinions:
Would you restrict any freedoms like for example freedom of speech in regards to homosexuality? Freedom to meet in public?

Yes but at the same time, it's a naive one, to believe that conflict is not inevitable even on that of the physical level I think is stupid.

I dislike noam chompsky but I like his quote on freedom of speech, i'm too lazy to look it up but goes something along the lines of "If you don't believe in freedom of speech for the people you despise you don't believe in freedom of speech at all."

When was it born then?

Also do you browse Holla Forums? They generally don't describe themselves as alt-rightists for some reason (considering there were retards describing Holla Forums as the "alt-left" in some threads as if we were some new fad and not the continuation of historical leftist movements I can see where Holla Forums's coming from) , so I figured it was a reddit thing.

Also since you don't hate homos what exactly makes you different from Right-Libertarians?

What else is against natural law? Or to put another way, what are the natural laws?

basically christian morality, remove anything nice from it, add deus vult and right-wing paternalism

voila

No but in my perfect utopian society it would be culturally frowned upon and there would be a lot of limitations on
personal liberty when it comes to associating yourself with that
group like pedophilia.

Humans have a different natural law then animals, and ancient civilizations did have many backwards rituals when we talk about them today.

It sure as hell wasn't born out of a video game "social movement", it was probably born out of former ron paulers mixed with Holla Forums ideologically.

I'm probably more pragmatist which makes me less inclined to disbelieve in personal freedom, I've seen a lot of people like me in the alt right who are also inherently pragmatist in their views.

Not much separates me from a libertarian except for the fact that I believe personal liberty should be limited in times of crisis and the fact that I disagree with almost all of their economic stances. As edgy as it sounds I believe white americans have been in a time of crisis since the assassination of Jfk.

Guys do you remember when Lenin was leftist lifestylist hanging out in hip Parisian bistros and ranting about the "man" oppressing the little guy? Did you know that he went into sit ins at public squares demanding pot legalization because the Tzar wouldn't allow him to smoke that dank Siberian kush?

No?

Neither do I. The things you learn…

nat·u·ral law
noun
1.
a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct.
2.
an observable law relating to natural phenomena.
"the natural laws of perspective"

Its the principle of the reduction of all possible pain in society, that goes with tolerance but Homosexuality according to natural law is a disability for not being able to contribute to society through reproducing.

thats not according to natural law sorry, that's according to the ideal that all men should try their best to provide benefit for others in their own ingroup and people. That's a White Nationalist Ideal but it's also one of the main ideals I think alt righters respectively share. It's more or less a fascist ideal but without the idea
of a nation state. One of the main things that differs from actually idealed Nazis and Alt Righters is the fact that the Alt-Right doesn't believe in the destruction of other cultures.

Homosexuality is observable throughout the animal kingdom.

Also what is natural isn't necessarily correlated with what is good. It is perfectly natural to be constantly naked all the time yet we don't do it. It is also perfectly natural to engage in cannibalism (something also observed in other apes).

What is "natural" in mankind is a philosophical question, and it extends beyond morality or even the need to propagate the species. Animals follow their natural instinct to copulate each year in a programmed manner, as their design programmed them to. Yet man can resist his urges and deny his programming.

I'm not an anti-natalist , but there must be an obvious connection between what Freud called the "death-drive" (the act to go beyond life and do other things) and human consciousness.

I'm speaking for a pretty large crowd here so you should probably take all of these things with a pinch of salt on what the average alt righter believes

The idea of the "in-group" doesn't make any sense in that context.

Sociologically speaking a neighborhood is also an in-group, so is a city, a country, the European Union etc.

If you are talking about that people "naturally prefer" racial in-groups, then this hinges on what you mean by "race" since race is entirely a social construct. Caucasian is a race, but then again Arabs are also Caucasians, shouldn't the Europeans have a natural tendency to be united with them, following that logic?

personal liberty
What kinds?

Why do you think I wanted to hear your opinion on pedophilia, when I talked about homosexuality?

I never really understand you guys and why you do this. I mean do you listen to the common filth podcast everyday to get your body powered up by disgust and hate?

Yes and many of these backwards rituals and ways of thinking survived to today. Also you realize that homosexuality in humans have existed for thousands of years, so your reference to "different rules for animals" really does not apply here.

That is a gigantic seperation you have with them there. You are basically completly politically opposed to them.

Not true though. There is nothing from stopping homosexuals from reproducing. And sexuality is not black and white, it's a spectrum.

And I think the other user wanted to know more about what kind of natural laws there are, not a definition.

I don't even know why you would want natural laws as a moral code for society.

Be forthright motherfucker. I asked you what is natural law and you give me a dictionary definition followed by your homespun definition. So the law is the principle of reducing pain? Then you have a real, real problem because you are a moral utilitarian who wants to quantify suffering, what a notion! Not being able to reproduce is bad? So do infertile people also unsettle you? Or can they and homos redeem themselves?

That's not left, that's liberal.

The ingroup is on completely ethnic grounds, there are ingroups based off of completely everything I agree with you on that point, but you see the larger these ingroups get the larger the unity is and for the possibility of unity. There is a reason cities don't just start rebelling and neighborhoods don't just start claiming independence and it's not just because we are held by gunpoint.

Irish people consider themselves different than british people(I probably shouldn't have used that as an example because the scotch-irish will get mad), caucasian people in america consider themselves part of a different ingroup as do blacks as do hispanics.

Race and ethnicity is different in europe then it is in america and we have to remember that.

Jesus christ, Holla Forums, you fucked up bad. Do you even listen to yourself?

No infertile people don't unsettle me, I'm unsettled by the idea of homosexuality on a personal level because I'm straight, nothing else.
I am utilitarian. I explained earlier that I made a mistake and that utilitarianism had nothing to do with natural law. I apologize for not being forthright I just expected to have a casual conversation about politics since I'm tired.

cold war tier political liberty, american style or mccarthyism
I don't hate homos on a personal level, the sexual aspect of it disgusts me on a personal level.
I have been taught by society to remove the concept of the overt sexual fetishism of homosexuality to the person,
I don't hate your ingroup I just hate the idea of it.
I believe we have evolved politically as we did technologically throughout history(e.g the abolishment of feudal property since I know you commies will agree with me on that)
You're right
I personally don't believe you, I don't disbelieve bisexuals when they say that the like both men and women, but the idea that, that belief coincides with the fact of straight people or gay people only deciding to have a romantic and sexual relationship with only one sex is contradictory.

It's also because of the fact that gay people or bisexual people are more likely to get stds

many people have had generally different ideas of society as does Holla Forums but the difference between Natural Law and society is the fact that Natural Law is cohesive.

The idea that one should one identify with another person of his ethnic group, while he is financially exploiting him as a worker seems utterly absurd when my situation is the same as that of another worker of another country with regards to the system of exploitation. Basic self-preservation strategy tells you that "there is no big Other", meaning a big State,homogeneous ethnic harmony etc.

The French were homogeneous and yet the French revolution happened, a revolution by the bourgeoisie against the "sacred" crown no less.

The idea to pin down ethnicity as the basic block that defines social unity seems a mistake to me then. So while it is true that ethnicities do have a shared culture an a tradition, most of that happens respectively of what we understand what is it to be "Irish", 'Russian" etc. For example Jazz is the merger European classical music with African folk music, to me this means that culture is dynamic and ever-changing , an not a monolithic base level structure.

Further I would argue that the idea of being "Irish" is entirely founded by a shared presupposition or even "lie", it could very well be a shared ideological delusion, meaning a call back to mythical past which never existed (everyone was getting along, everything was perfect back then etc.)

Personally I'm not a multiculturalist and I'm in favor of polycentric cultural state of existence, where many cultures exist in harmony without being the focus of human conflict, which is almost always used as an excuse by the State to wage war on another collection of people.

no

cool, but I was talking about natural law.
This has nothing to do with natural laws.

need to stamp out that degeneracy, right Holla Forums? :^)

Giving the goverment a bunch of power to completly nullify their check and balances and constitutional and human rights is a very smart idea

people just invoke natural law to justify some sort of super duper political system

which is horsecrap, arguably at most only tribes of at most ~100 people can be invoked in reference to natural law

In general ethnic groups feel more comfortable with their own ethnic group. If you're being exploited by another person in your ethnic group that person is just an asshole nothing else. You can't go about living life thinking that every person that has gone about causing problems for you is apart of a certain ingroup. This even goes for Holla Forumss da joos mentality, since jews are not the only interests in the united states working for the elites and influencing the decisions of the elites. Although I do believe that a large chunk of jews do influence the United States politically, although that has more or less to do with them advocating for their own ingroup (the talmud).

The main thing with an ethnic group is the fact that most of them have similar genetics as you get with a more homogenous population with a certain 'race' or 'ethnicity'. The main difference in america is skin color which predominantly belongs to the european population in the usa. Politics and ideals sometimes blinds us from the fact that most of us have much in common in both tradition and genetics that is why revolution happens.

Giving the goverment a bunch of power to completly nullify their check and balances and constitutional and human rights is a very smart idea
lmao

I understand completely that we can't be a utopian society that's why we need to encourage well being rather than enforce it.

I fucked the formatting of that up

the idea of natural law is cohesive because it's based off the fact that most people generally do the same thing when faced with doing an objectively bad thing

Can you be any more general?

yes

most people aren't bad unless prescribed with badness

they are usually just working in their own interests no matter how emotional

You'll have to try harder than that

Real leftism is dead.
The current story of the 21st century is between ebin memer working class nationalists vs socially liberal globalist hyper capitalists.
Look at the uk, Jeremy corbyn, and old style brit lefty awoke from his slumber and the media both left and right are running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to oust him.

The right wing are a marginalized motely crue, of traditionalists who were thought to have been destroyed in order to bring about our multicultural neo liberal world.
The right wing are more cohesive, they are in lock step goosse stepping all over sjw's and lefttards.

The left are obbbssed with idiinty poltics, which is used by the upperclass to divde the left, its very easy, one guy starts talking about workers rights, then a nigger shows up and is all UHHHH WHAT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE YOU RACIST" then a faggot shows up and is all "UHHHH WAHT ABOUT GAY PEOPLE YOU HOMOPHOBES" then a women shows up and is all "uhhhh what about women you woman haters"

Its the oppression Olympics.

The left is celebrated in the media, the right are like a bunch of mongolians living on the outskirts of town, they have created a culture of being the outsider, the media can yell racist all they want, they dont care, its lost all meaning.

The alt right was born on the internet because college campuses are hell mouths filled with sjw's.

Liberals are right wing.

This isn't a No True Scotsman, they are right wing by definition.

There's nothing wrong with not having culture.
Decadence is fine. Morality is a spook.

when i think of modern liberalism i picture a white teenage girl with cat lady glasses and dyed pink hair in a never ending state of offense reblogging virtue signalling posts on tumblr about how xir supports more Illegal gay immigrants and have you seen this picture of a white guy wearing a sombrero ughhhh cultural appropriation.

When i picture the alt right its a bunch of funny meme'rs whit a basis in right wing scholars who can have debates and conversations about obscure and mainstream political, social, and geopolitical subjects.
They also will call you a cuck.

In other words you like hanging around people who are as socially inept as you?

If that isn't cuckoldry

but not the unironic nazis on 8chanpol

I dont like many people there. They are too authoritarian and too bigoted and hateful.

this is the reality of the modern left and right.
The left became the party of capitalism and the upper class, when Hillary wins they will become the party of war as well.
The right is becoming the party of the working class, isolationism, and rationality.

You do know that the people who vote for trump are mostly petite-bourgeoisie? Land-lords, "small business owners" and the like?
The working class, i.e. poor people, don't vote. They haven't been a real political force in a long time.

Voting for trump isnt about whether he wold be good for america, the white working class are voting for him as a way to spit in the liberal elites face, the same people who voted for brexit.
We are dying, there is no hope, if we die we are going to die shitting in your mouth

No, you're missing what I'm saying. Working people don't vote. They aren't voting for anyone.
fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

oh go fuck yourself

...

btw, there are sources at the bottom of the page if nate bronze really triggers you

*spreads my ass open*
*gets ready to fart*
Oh no….it's the big one…

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFffffFFFFFFFFffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

jesus christ, why did this make me laugh

It's a hyper-accelerated culture, friendo. The far right and neo-liberals are famous for sponging off of energies produced by the left, the internet has simply made that happen quicker. As dumb as it was, Vaporwave stuff is a great recent example, lefty in intent, but so quickly swallowed by alt-right memery and nostalgists that it's like that intent never existed.
Tim and Eric and early MDE were that too, the former bought out making commercials and rap videos, the latter courting the hard right with ambiguous sincerity for them hot controversybux.

youtube.com/watch?v=9c9THwinNYg

No European state in the 18th century was ethnically homogeneous. In fact no European state has ever been ethnically homogeneous.

Blatant samefag, nobody found you funny

no

Anarchists are pretty common too. One of the girls who got sexually assaulted by Jake Appelbaum was actually involved in an anarchist direct action group, wherein they refused to go to the police, and instead made the guy take feminism lessons. Before you laugh, she said it worked.

If I stopped being friends with anyone who has different political beliefs… I'd have no friends.

Yes, I want all conservatives to be like republicans in the US. Any sane rational person would be forced to vote for the left then, and if there is only one big party on the left the choice will be either retarded religious types or leftist politics of envy, resentment and wealth redistribution BUT with atheism and abortions.

There is a hole in your logic. Look at all the libertarians who rather vote for Trump than Clinton even now.

Why must you be so retarded?