This antagonism [to immigrants] is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers...

Marx, letter to Sigfrid Meyer and August Vogt, 1870
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm
Marx BTFO'd you back in the 19th century familias

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marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm
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Yes. It's the ruling class thats responsible for my apprehensiveness about mass Muslim migration. Not their zealotry or seven century beliefs or hatred of my civilization.

Get fucked.

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kek, you deserve it for not being internationalist tbh

Immigration is caused by low living conditions worldwide - were the whole of workers free and prosperous, there would be no need for immigration. Both pro and anti-immigration-focused doctrines miss the big picture and the damage of centuries of capitalism.

no need for labor immigration, sure. Though this doesn't mean that in communism the people wouldn't be free to move around the globe freely.

It is the ruling class that created the influx of these people you dumbshit motherfucker.

Nobody is talking about capitalism right now, they are talking about immigrants because faggots like you think that's more important. The owning class is very happy with that situation.

I was speaking of course of mass immigration, the type that usually causes the apprehensions seen in modern society. Certain groups of people would always have a need to visit and live in places they were not born in, and there would be no problem with that seeing as this would not be for the purpose of escaping the lack of prosperity of their home region.

>>>/reddit/

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It's a war of wealth between the monarchs and the surveillance states, buddy.

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after all we're on a mongolian throat singing board, amirite?

Define 'mass' immigration buzzword buffoon

kek

m8 most of these people have nothing against western culture and their lives have been heavily influenced by it because of mass communication
they're told by their preachers to hate the west for political expedience

A large number of cultures moving to a smaller variety of areas for the purpose of attempting to find prosperity as there is no room for success within their current society.
The problem with this is that immigration of a large number of people does not deal with the core issue of their being a lack of global prosperity, and the economy of a single region cannot support all the workers of the world.

This does not justify letting those people in in any way, shape or form. If your neighbor decided to start lobbing hand grenades over your fence, you should get him to stop that , BUT that does not mean embracing the grenades while going on about how oppressed they are or some other stupid shit.


They don't have all have to be terrorists you stupid liberal. Only a few have to get past the non existent border and do their thing. Yet apparently that is too "bourgeoisie" for you.


If they loved western civilization so much, then perhaps they should get around to integrating one of these days.

This is fair, but you have to remember that the difference itself is the cause of tension, not the differences therein.

The pederasty thing in Afghanistan, for example, is absolutely hated by its locals, but like rich pedos in the West, they go to a foreign land to do whatever they want.

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Define large.

And sure, so what exactly entitles you to this small amount of room over someone more willing and able to do the job?

there is no such thing as "western civilization", it's a nebulous term that pretends that all western cultures are the same or even generally similar when there is as much difference as between the west and east


literally muh other
the jihadis will just up and fucking kill you, they don't need some hare brained scheme.

"Culture" is as meaningless of a political term as one can get. It encompasses numerous things that are not mutually inclusive.

More importantly, it falsely implies that all observable group behavior is based in consciously followed value systems.

Nothing entitles me - my goal in life is to make sure that the whole world can experience a worker's revolution and through it make sure that all people can experience the life they deserve (also because without global revolution the globalist rich cannot be stopped for they can simply move their resources to another place and continue their ownership of the poor).

So you want to fight the ebil mooslum tirrarizts but are not prepared to deal with the refugee and immigration situation that creates? Sure fire way to create many more terrorists.

The problem with people like you is you think building walls/ hanging the bastards/assorted other medieval remedies actually works towards fixing the problem you hate so much. We've had walls and wars and nooses for thousands of years…. And yet the rate of terror increases

So leave, make room for a worker more suited and take your internet debate skills to the Middle East and preach revolution.

But…. You won't

Irrelevant. You know what I meant. If they truly had nothing against the culture of the country they are "fleeing" to, then they should integrate. And you haven't even addressed the fact that they are integrating poorly. Their proletarian solidarity is a joke, and it is not magically going to get better once you start dropping Marxist "theory" on them.


Could you stop with these stupid word games? Whatever "Western culture" is, it is very apparent that the muslims don't like it, and will therefore not integrate and join in your "revolution."


I want to fight terrorists by removing them from our countries, actually prosecuting them for their crimes, and keeping a closer eye on muslims from that region. If you find this too triggering for you then shoot yourself.


Punishing criminals has a long track record of reducing crime. By contrast, letting them do whatever they want while continuously letting them in has precisely zero successes.


We had antibiotics for a hundred years and have increased our agricultural output since the dawn of civilization. Therefore, antibiotics and agriculture cause terrorism according to you!
Truly a staggering display of stupidity on your part.

Genetically they are pretty much just like me

Checkmate pol

No one has an issue with removing terrorist from the country. All muslims aren't terrorist. More white people have committed mass shootings than Muslims. Maybe we should have slightly stricter laws on guns to prevent terrorist from buying them than stalk people. No one here is in favour of surveillance on people because of the label they identify with.


Muslims who will not join in on the cause are enemies as much as any lumpenprole.

When will leftists stop repeating this irrelevant point? You can't possibly check all of the migrants coming into Europe to filter out the few. And those that you do let in refuse to integrate. This is empirical fact.


But we can stop muslims easily you tool. Would you rather have 100 dead people or 50?


Europe already has strict gun laws, laws which dont work obviously.


I never claimed you were.


You have no reason to let in lumpens then, since they are counter revolutionary and just a drain.

YOU were the one who tried to distill the entire history of terrorism into

and YOU haven't even provided an alternative to your failed solutions, so I do not want to see you whining about past failures.

No faggot, we all want that, I'm asking you how, how are you going to do that? You remove them from our country, okay, most terrorists are not currently located in the west anyway, there are comparatively very few terrorist attacks on western soil. So you send them back, so what? The bombs still go off. How are you combating this global crisis trough these actions?


What a catastrophic waste of time and money. How exactly do you plan to do this? Mass surveillance? Oh…. We already have that. What has it stopped? To date? Jack fucking shit.

It's not about me being triggered you knuckle dragging goon, it's about actual practical solutions of which you suggest precisely none, just vague trump-esque 'we need to find out what's going on' 'we need to punish them for their crimes' yes of course we do, in what manner? Because no, in fact, harsh punishments like prisons and executions actually have an extremely long track record of failing abysmally. The us prison system is a prime example of how this kind of thinking is ass backwards. You say you hate 7th century Muslims ideas and yet your way of dealing with them dates to way before the seventh century. You are just as barbaric, you however don't have the excuse of coming from a region of conflict and poverty, you're just a moron.

what is your civilization and why is it worth defending?

I'm not the person you replied to.


see

Alcohol bacon dogs loose women blond hair and blue eyes.
It's worth defending because I like it.

If this is trolling, its not very good by any standard

I like curvy arab bitches and kebabs
And in Australia I get the best of the West and the Middle East
So suck it

Enjoy your cultural enrichment in the form of lead and shrapnel.

Bullshit. If you truly wanted to stop terrorism, then stop accepting terrorists into your country.


HAH! What a fucking joke! If you think I have the answers or ability to abolish capitalism right now, then get fucked! I do not pretend I have that ability. I just want to deal with the current situation as best as I can. If you are stuck in a hole, STOP DIGGING. But some of you seem to love the digging.


We stop them at the border? Turn away many of them and track the few we decide to let in. Much less expensive than feeding hundreds of thousands of idiots who cannot contribute to the economy in any meaningful way. Or would you suggest that we make one section of the working class poorer at the expense of another, a "working class" that hates Western freedom?


Solutions, solutions, solutions. If you love solutions so much, how about YOU provide one instead of endlessly making up petty complaints about mine?

You can't, because you don't have one other than "working class magically gets its shit together and overthrows capitalism." How is THAT for impractical you fucking prat?

I am barbaric? Who is the one advocating allowing rapists, terrorists and child molestors go unpunished? Who is advocating that we actually bring MORE of them in? Who is advocating that we allow these 7th century muslims to impose their barbaric culture on our modern culture? Not me, its you!

And you STILL haven't provided a fucking solution for this problem. You and the rest of you idealistic idiots come up with something useful for once. Otherwise, who are you to criticize others for their lack of imagination?

Because those native Western Muslims in the Balkans are a bunch of akbars?

It's political, plain and simple, and Western governments consciously egg it on for their own ends.

translation: I am so paranoid out of my mind that anyone who disagrees with me literally raping me

Except I've never met a Muslim like the ones you are describing. If you keep making sweeping generalizations you're not going to convince anyone


We deal with disease not symptoms. Eliminating one will just bring fourth the next. But thank you for conceding that you are a reactionary.


1. End military imperialism in the middle East
2. Work on rebuilding their home lands and spreading leftist messages to the denizens
3. Treat people as individuals. Those who want a theocracy will be removed.
4. Kil Capitalism

I'm not dead yet and arabs have been here for 20 years. Arabs have been in America since the beginning

Try again reactionary fag

they integrate fine into the US, even the few that commit public violence do so in an american way

they don't integrate in yurup because yurup governments are liberal stupids that only bring them in for economic benefit, leave them feeling very alienated and goad them into forming their own communities

i'd trust the muzzie somalian immigrants in my state over the US government any day of the week

Wtf am I reading? This dude is way off the deep end

Who the fuck said anything about native Western Muslims? Just because you play dumb (or actually are this fucking stupid) doesn't invalidate my point. Everybody with two brain cells to rub together knows that when we say muslims IN THE CONTEXT OF IMMIGRATION we mean those radical muslims from the M.E. These people have no incentive to integrate. They come in large numbers, they are radical and they live in a permissive society that will defend their savagry at any cost. They MAY integrate if we put our foot down, but telling them that they can just come into our countries and do whatever they want will not cause any integration. They WILL respect our laws, traditions, customs and beliefs, they WILL conform, or they will never learn, and therefore must be cast out. Plain and simple. If you shit up my house, then you get the boot.


Recognizing that you are full of shit is not being paranoid. It is called being reasonable and sane.

Who gives a fuck? Do you live next to them? Do you even pay attention to the news? Your anecdotes don't erase history, no matter how much you wish it were so.


Realizing the limits of my knowledge and ability is NOT reactionary. Pretending that just

is a solution is fucking retarded.

2. Work on rebuilding their home lands and spreading leftist messages to the denizens
3. Treat people as individuals. Those who want a theocracy will be removed.
4. Kil Capitalism

VAGUE VAGUE VAGUE. You spent, what, 3 paragraphs needling me on the specifics of my plan, then you present me with this bullshit. Read your own fucking posts, then apply the same standard to yourself, then get back to me. Shit like "magical unicorns will give us full communism" doesn't fly in the real word kid, so you might want to put down your fiction and do some real thinking for once.

The solution to the problem is to end all interventionist conflicts which are he cause of the instability and therefore immigration and refugees. You can do this without even ending capitalism.


Right, by turning around desperate people at the border because of their country of origin and giving them yet another reason to strap on a vest. I say again, why do you think this will stop terrorism? Most terrorism does not happen in the west. It's certainly a great way to provide Isis and Boko haram with willing converts though.

I say this again because you did not adress the first time. Instead resorting to capital letters and such in a rhetorical attempt to divert from the substance of the words.


And yet in my country the racist stereotype of Muslims is them owning corner shops, which has a lot of basis in truth. Oh that and immigrants make up 40% of nhs workers, because working in the nhs sucks and spooky British kids don't want to do it so we have to outsource. Immigrants are also on average healthier and less likely to draw benefits than the native population. But y'know whatever right there were some rapists and no natives ever raped anyone.


You are so retarded you can't even see the irony here it's fucking fantastic.


I'm not and didn't say that but nice straw man. No what I said was the current overarching system of punishment is a total failure, which it is, empirically.

My solution for dealing with rapists etc? For starters new arrivals would undergoe far more education, essentially integration training, etc. Schools cost less than prisons, another objective fact. Quick question, would you deport every rapist, or just the brown ones?

Strawmanning is NOT a valid debate tactic you tool.

See

There would be zero issue if Western governments were at all competent. Before the migrant crisis, the majority of them that don't run the EU de facto only exist to soak up tax haven money.

assblasted Holla Forumslacks pretending to be left wing

OP, you should make an infographic of Marx's views on immigration, religious extremism, and cultural differences. That way we can just /thread all the dumb Holla Forumslacks.

Just a few minutes before you started screeching at us about how we all want rape like a coked up feminazi.

Surprise surprise another thread where Holla Forums is deeply triggering and problematic and pro islam.

Workers of the world my ass.

inb4 "i live with X everyday and I know what i'm talking about

KEK

MAXIMUM KEK

Hey man, you view an entire race as a thin caricature, might as well view you in the same light

Yes. Actually my neighbours are recently immigrated Iranians. Nice people.

My point is that your plan is reactionary. We don't do reactionary politics. If you want a plan why won't you read a fucking book?

Wanting to deal with things like an adult with rationallity instead of an autistic kid who has problems controlling their aggression is not being pro Islam it's wanting to think instead of just smashing.

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You mean (((Meyer))) right?

my eyes are rolling so hard they do flips for days

you fucking moron

what causes immigration? you're literally quotemining like the biggest faggot this board has
which is coincidentally you amongst others with the tripfags being the cherry on the top of boardfaggotry

>>>/suicide/

That doesn't contradict what anti-immigration advocates here say, he's referring to idpol and the deviation of blame away from exploitative and onto the exploited immigrants.

Tell me OP, how is your post relevant to those who merely say that within the context of a capitalist society, that immigrants through no fault of their own and merely seeking a better life, increase the supply of labour in the markets they join, thus depressing wages, same said immigrants are used as disposable scabs through agencies to undermine union workers and that the antagonism that they inherently bring by being foreign increases fascist tendencies in society?

can you name one single contribution you've made to "your" civilization

kek why u so NaCl?

capitalism does. But so is not being a serf caused by capitalism.
Fuck freedom, I guess?
The workers' right to move around freely is something we should protect.
alright

you should probably read the whole letter if you really think Marx lets room for anti-immigration politics within the communist movement.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm

The fact that workers are in competition is caused by capitalism, not by foreign workers. I've already said it in another thread; would you say that people commuting to the city from the countryside are scabs as well? That they undermine union workers and that they are increasing fascist tendencies?
No god you wouldn't, they aren't brown after all!
Instead of appeasing to petit bourgeois sentiments about how foreign workers are undermining the native workers you should get a proper internationalist attitude. Because the only position a communist can & should take is that of proletarian internationalism and not some workerist-nationalist particularism.

Do you want the holocaust to happen again?

This is the stupidest line of reasoning to come out of the muh immigrants nonsense.
It is also what actually permitted the rise of fascism in the first place. The moderate left aligned itself with right-wing elements.

Go to the store and buy a brain please.

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this

I find that picture offensive

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this pic is so offensive