What is happening in venezuela...

What is happening in venezuela? Are their having serious economic problems because of western sabotage or internal problems?

Other urls found in this thread:

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11992
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCTV#2007_.E2.80.93_end_of_terrestrial_broadcast_concession
caracaschronicles.com/2016/02/05/51257/
tiwy.com/news.phtml?id=286
web.archive.org/web/20131228203951/http://www.granma.cu/ingles/international-i/11oct-Keiderling.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Keiderling
wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09CARACAS404_a.html
search.wikileaks.org/?query=Keiderling
telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuelan-Private-Sector-Siphoned-Off-259B-in-Public-Funds-20160619-0026.html
gfycat.com/ZigzagDamagedBarracuda
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

It's a second/third world country ran by retards and completely dependent on oil, which means entire country goes to shit once the prices fall
See also: Russia

Chavez didn't cause a crisis through, he held the crisis off for over a decade.
venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11992

Hispanics cant run complex societies.

tl;dr, run by a fat idiot that called himself socialist because he doesn't know what socialism is, ran economy entirely on oil, fucked up badly

Oh, you mean the US?

OOoooooh!
You mean the country that is sabotaged by the US!
Right!

obligatory

see

Are you actually implying that Venezuelan export being pretty much composed of oil and oil accessories is fault of Burgerclaps?

Who controls the spice, controls the universe.

I don't think it that much a question of ideology. Surely you can not call Venezuela socialist nor can you put all the blame on Burgerland (even though the oil price was tampered with, probably not because of Venezuela)

The answer is simple: It's adminstration is corrupt to the core and the land is basically a Mekka of crime. Instead of fighting this, the administration regulates resturants to put up with hundreds of certifications while whole districts are being ruled by gangs.

unless the prices of the spice hit the rock bottom

Does that mean the American Empire is ending?

So far only their biggest rival in Europe was economically raped because of oil prices and sanctions for Donbas, so I doubt

Why is it that in just about every painting of Lenin where he's sitting down, the furniture is always draped over in cloth? Is this a Russian thing? I don't get it.

KEK!

Only remaining relevant economies are China and maybe India.

EU was never relevant.

probably bit of both

IN Europe you cockfuck.

Am tired and I missread, ok?
Sorry!

Plz no bully!

Your life must be really interesting.

You can't really blame a country's entire economic structure on one or two governments can you? It is a fair point to argue that Chavistas cared too much about redistributing the oil proffits and didn't take the efforts needed to outgrow the oil dependency, still expecting a Bourgeois Liberal state to yield Stalin's results is a bit much.

One of biggest misfortunes in this mess is that Dilma's Brazil was making massive efforts in oil refinery, which could help make Venuela independent from US refineries (who get to dictate prices due to technological monopoly), with the current and possible future administrations I wouldn't doubt if we turned down Venezuela for political reasons alone.

if they don't privatize it all that is.

...

A place run by US investors.

Gomenasai, Anonymous-kun!

And they are doing a great job at it. Best lat country for sure.

They are, because you never learn.

No True Scotsman is the eternal excuse around here, isn't it? If it's just impossible for any human to implement this "socialism" maybe it's really not worth the trouble. Meanwhile "capitalism" took Hong Kong from mud huts to skyscrapers in a couple decades.

Nitpick HK all you want, but when has an attempt to implement YOUR pet ideology ever led to prosperity and higher living standards? Venezuela is sitting on an ocean of oil and they still can't get their shit together. Most countries in Africa kicked out the imperialists in a triumphant surge of revolutionary Marxism then proceed to run everything into the ground.

Best case you let a country go relatively free market for a century like Sweden, then implement "democratic socialism" to slowly piss away the accumulated resources.

TOP KEK

*decades

Surplus Value will remain for as long as Private Property remains, and we'll be here denouncing it.
You're not going to convince anyone, you're sliding the board and wasting your time.
Are you the Venezuelan-fag from last thread?


read his post again.

He implies the welfare state in Sweden is new and Sweden was led by free marketers up until recently when the exact opposite is true and fucking President Eisenhower was complaining about Sweden's large welfare state back in the 1950s.

Somebody actually took this meme seriously

the inflation and currency controls (which were supposed to be "temporary", but both chávez and maduro have a really bad habit of saying "this will be temporary" and making it permanent. when a phone costs 2-10 times the minimum wage, stealing shit starts to sound good) and making guns illegal (only people that don't give a fuck about the laws have a gun, normal citizens are defenseless against criminals. el yonaiker de la esquina tiene un hierro y te puede atracar y echar plomo si le da la gana, y tu no tienes manera de defenderte) contributed directly to crime

are people forgetting about crime now that they're just focusing on finding food?

Surplus Value will remain as long as civilization exists. Socialism/communism is about the workers distributing their Surplus Value themselves.

just because zizek said it doesn't make it true

I honestly can't tell if tankie is trolling or really this dumb anymore.

The workers didn't own the means of production, so it's not socialism.

We're listening to Greeks get called Scotsmen and being shouted at with the names of logical fallacies for trying to correct basic facts.

Basically this, it is the reason i stopped frequenting here. You got a bunch of kids running around trying to redefine socialism, and then claiming that socialism as fits their definition never existed.

The answer to the question posed is simply this, Venezuela along with many other Communist and Socialist countries recently have been failing because their main backbone has been gone for 20+ years. They were reliant upon the union, and now that it is gone and they find themselves in a world surrounded by capitalist demand, their failure is inevitable. It would be the same if America fell a few years down the line, we would see a lot of countries disappear or need to make many changes in order sustain themselves. It has nothing to do with their way of life not working, nor their legitamacy as socialist countries. When you become reliant on another state, and that state disappears, then you will disappear also.

I, personally, am a Stalinist. Under Stalin, communism rapidly spread and sustained itself, even flourished world wide. If the Union would have stayed true to his principles and continued along the path he paved, instead of demonizing him and implementing destalinization, the Soviet Union very likely would still be here today. We wouldn't have to deal with failing socialist or communist countries, nor would we have these children who don't know a damn thing about communism or socialism prancing about advocating for their "fair" and "flawless" democratic socialism that Lenin himself said was absolute bullshit.

Where does Lenin write about this specifically?

It is written in the beginning of his State and the Revolution. He specifically states thst the Democratic Socialists are psuedo-socialist bourgeosie that wish to twist and reinterpret the words of Marx to fit their own agenda.

without the capitalist to extact it how can it be surplus?

Chavez was a giant fucking hypocrite and so is his PSUV party. They say they want to help the poor and fight the rich yet he became the rich and make the poor even more poorer. He hoarded a bunch of money from the Venezuelan economy and overspend on a bunch fucking luxury items and let his country to die. He is simply was a corrupt dictator who thinks he's a Boliavarian socialist when he's pretty much the complete opposite of that. Though to be fair he did do some good stuff in his first years of office which I would respect, but all that shit after that? Fuck that. You can call Chavez a socialist all you want, but I wouldn't call a man who hoarded $1 billion dollars into his bank account and made his daughter the richest person in Venezuela with a net worth of $4 billion dollars a socialist.

chávez made it clear that he disliked businessmen. he expropriated companies and put strict currency controls, so what's the incentive for a foreigner to invest here? many companies have gone to shit after being expropriated, but they can't be saved anymore even if you give them to their original owners, because you can't do much when the country's economy is fucked.

some examples of restrictions that make companies want to avoid venezuela (just things that affect profit):

- Currency controls and price controls means that doing anything that involves importing or exporting things legally is fucking painful
- (TV) Cadena nacional abuse. If Chávez (now Maduro) feels like he wants to talk for 3 hours and force all FTA channels to broadcast it, he will. Around the start of the Maduro presidency, there were around 10 hours a week of those forced broadcasts, or at least it felt like 10 hours a week.
- (TV) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCTV#2007_.E2.80.93_end_of_terrestrial_broadcast_concession This whole thing.
- (TV) You can't show TV-PG content in FTA channels until after 7PM (Televen got in trouble for broadcasting the simpsons at 11AM and 6PM. Not sure why they got rid of it instead of moving it to 7PM.)

Internal problems. It all started with Chávez and his currency controls.

both, mostly foreign though
research "Dólar Today"

bullshit, that actually fixed sabotage acts by taking money out of the country into the US after the failed coup attempt

they're having economic problems because they never actually bothered to build an economy.

actually they're pretty good at running complex drug trade operations. it's just they keep forcing socialism when they're really capitalists at heart.

wew

He never removed the currency control thing and made it easy to abuse, that's what I meant.

...

holy shit Holla Forums can't argue with that

Venezuelan here. I'm sitting right next to my mom right now, she's searching for heart medecine. Monocard/Izmo is the name.

She's called about *and im not exagerating here* thirty drugstores state-wide and NONE have either.

Let me tell you about socialism and capitalism, you know what it all comes down to? Trust and convenience.

What we have here is a situation that is incredibly inconvenient to most of us, regardless of our socio-economical standing. It is so goddamn inconvenient to get deeper into illness because of shortages, it's so goddamn inconvenient to go to bed at night on an empty stomach and it is soooo goddamn inconvenient to form on a line from 6pm 'till 8am next day just to have the possibility of buying 2 kilos of pre-cooked maize flour and 1 kilo of rice.

And this is just so you can gain some perspective. What incentive does anyone have to go through this? How dare anyone ask us to believe in a socialist revolution after this? Can we trust ANYONE to be legit?


LESS starvation, LESS. There was LESS inconvenience, much LESS death and much LESS pain. Go tell a a prole standing on a line with their two malnourished children about enmancipation from capital, go see if they care. People dont give a fuck, they want to eat, they NEED to eat, and what has this pavlovian situation taught them? Socialism=Hunger.

Oh Venezuela is NOT socialist? I agree up to a certain point, there is obviously no workers-owning-means- of-production, but that beinh said; how would I trust another revolution? And I know some pretty hot-shit hardline Marxist-leninist Ideologues who are 100% commited to the bolivarian revolution and they are in it out of princicple and not for profit. How fucking dare these people ask a prole to "hang in there" or how dare they call anyone that has left their ranks a "counter-revolutionary traitor cryptofascist" for having sanity and a conscience?

So yes it will all, always come down to a simple calculus of Trust and Convenience, and capitalism is master of -at least- convenience.

Well, to clarify, it was really easy to abuse early on (before 2006? the official dollar price was around ). Some people got rich buying restricted dollars, selling them for bolivares on the black market, and buying more dollars on the restricted market hundreds of times. Another form of abuse was by taking the $300 "electronic dollars" you got anually (which had a fixed price of 6.3 Bs for each dollar, when the black market price was around 5-15 times that) and selling them on black market prices, but like with bachaqueros (buying regulated food, selling it on the black market), none of that would happen if we didn't have currency/price controls.

Chávez said that it was only going to be in place for around a year, but look at us now. Chávez and Maduro don't know what "temporary" means.

caracaschronicles.com/2016/02/05/51257/ (article about the black market/official dollar abuse. note: people on this website use spanish words in english articles sometimes. opposition leaning.)

around 2.15

is this some fresh pasta?

no

It is now :^]

I'm legit, gimme a few minutes for timestamp.

Good queston OP. There have been accusuations of sabotage rom Ven for a while now. The biggest one was then three US diplomats were expelled in 2013. Ven said they were planning to sabotage the power grid. One of those expelled, Kelly Keiderling, has an interesting past.


tiwy.com/news.phtml?id=286

And a bit about Kelly, since scrubbed but archive.


web.archive.org/web/20131228203951/http://www.granma.cu/ingles/international-i/11oct-Keiderling.html

...

American here. I'm sitting right next to my mom right now, she's searching for chicken tendies. Obama Fingers is the name.
She's called about *and im not exagerating here* thirty supermarkets country-wide and NONE have them.
Let me tell you about socialism and capitalism, you know what it all comes down to? Trust and convenience.
What we have here is a situation that is incredibly inconvenient to most of us, regardless of our socio-economical standing. It is so goddamn inconvenient to get deeper into debt because of loans, it's so goddamn inconvenient to go to bed at night on an empty stomach and it is soooo goddamn inconvenient to work as a wageslave from 6pm 'till 8am next day just to have the income for buying 2 kilos of pre-cooked tendies and 1 kilo of mayo.
And this is just so you can gain some perspective. What incentive does anyone have to go through this? How dare anyone ask us to believe in a capitalist economy after this? Can we trust ANYONE to be legit?
LESS starvation, LESS. There was LESS inconvenience, much LESS death and much LESS pain. Go tell a a prole standing on a line with their two malnourished children about the 10 gorillion, go see if they care. People dont give a fuck, they want to eat, they NEED to eat, and what has this pavlovian situation taught them? Capitalism=Hunger.
Oh America is NOT capitalist? I agree up to a certain point, there is obviously no “voluntary” labour, but that beinh said; how would I trust another election? And I know some pretty hot-shit hardline Anarcho-“Capitalist” Ideologues who are 100% commited to the corporate revolution and they are in it out of princicple and not for profit. How fucking dare these people ask a prole to "hang in there" or how dare they call anyone that has left their ranks a "commiecuck misogynerd Jew" for having sanity and a conscience?
So yes it will all, always come down to a simple calculus of Trust and Convenience, and socialism is master of -at least- convenience.

Ha-ha, very funny. I'm glad you all consider this just a joke.

the second part of your post is what triggered his autism

Actually, mostly it was the grammar.

So not good sources then? The bit about our girl Kelly was on BBC and shit too. Only these sites seemed to offer decent back story. You saying it's all commie propaganda?

Oh and there's this too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Keiderling


That she is a spy is far from impossible.

This too.

It's obviously sabotage. My theory about how the world works and how it should be organized is being directly attacked by parasites from the bourgeoise, so that they can reclaim the surplus value of labor and oppress the proletariat.

We must fight back and defend our Venezuelan friends. I'm going there this summer. What are YOU going to do?

Source?


It sure was.

Only thing I could find was:

and

All that BBC says about them is that they were expelled


20 bolos a que te mata un malandro

I don't into Spanish. But google 'Luis Posada Carriles kelly keiderling'.

Can't find the wikileak cable.

No joda 50 que lo meten preso por espionaje y un guardia le mete el 107 por ese chamopapo.

get your fact straight

wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09CARACAS404_a.html

Can't find anything related to Keiderling in Caracas on wikileaks.

Nor could I.

search.wikileaks.org/?query=Keiderling

I'm not invested I this either way. It's just stories that I've heard since 2013 and never been able to get to the bottom of.

Her past is interesting, and the US has form with shit like this. But neither of these are exactly smoking gun evidence.

telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuelan-Private-Sector-Siphoned-Off-259B-in-Public-Funds-20160619-0026.html

Oil prices are important of course, but it's never that simple. The US wants a Venezuelan comprador and will do what it takes to get it.

Actually this image nails the thing pretty good.

Oil is back up. This isn't 2014-2015.
Do we have to pay 10 bucks a gallon?!

gfycat.com/ZigzagDamagedBarracuda

I'll post it again.

Socialism is 'worker ownership and management of the means of production

"lol but what does that even mean xD?"

In any given society, you're going to have three basic groups of people:

Productive Labor - The people who directly produce the goods and services society needs though their work, they must necessarily produce more than they themselves use, creating a surplus
Unproductive Labor - People who's work is not directly involved in the production of socially necessary goods and services (eg - soldiers, lawyers, firemen, police, etc)
The Ruling Class - The people who receive the surplus created by productive labor and decide how it should be used and distributed.

Socialism is a relation of production where that third group has been abolished and its functions distributed to the former two groups, with special deference to productive labor. It isn't the state owning anything, if the relation of production hasn't changed. It isn't the ruling party calling themselves "socialist" if they haven't changed the basic relation of production. Only when that essential relation of production has been altered can a system legitimately call itself socialist.

when will they learn

and if you're wondering, both people from the government and people from the opposition complain about this. if venezuela didn't have exchange rate controls, none of this could happen.

this thread is literal cancer

It's because Marxism leads to shortages. You can't expect to have a gift economy without people taking advantage of it. Quit trying Marxism, it doesn't fucking work. Give market socialism a try, there's a reason that Tito's Yugoslavia was the most successful socialist country in the east while the soviet bloc was a run down hell hole.

calm down, they still think that any country that has internet is a developed country, do you think that they can remember anything that happened this year?

So you are angry with socialists for the failings of a liberal capitalist economy?