The systemd Controversy is Manufactured

How many parts of a typical GNU/Linux system can you name that do follow the UNIX way?

Most of mine, I use LibreBSD

You mean a system that's not at all GNU/Linux, and that systemd doesn't even try to support? Not sure how that's relevant.

Most parts of a typical GNU/Linux system run on more than one kernel because they aren't written by fedora-installing faggots.

bait and you have no idea of what you are talking about.
There is systemd the init and systemd the project.
Systemd the init no one gives a fuck it's replaceable and isn't looking like cancer.
Systemd the project on the other hand is just cancer that's spread into unnecessary part so that CIA nigger can exploit the whole OS.
Even security researchers of the hardned linux kernel are fucking worried about it.

Just read this fucking thread and get your head out of the trash
lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161204.215049.93e768e9.en.html

wut

GNU is Not Unix
and GNU/Linux never aimed to be Unix anyway
here's your ""real Unix"" >>>/*BSD/

BSD is the source of cat's -v.

...

All true tbh. Good thread OP

...

I hate this world.

No wonder you're so angry, you do nothing but disparage what you see in front of you.

I like both GNU (with Linux added) and *BSD
am I weird?

Not at all. Different implementations of free software do not harm anybody.

"I never was a supporter of the Unix design philosophy."

No shit Sherlock. Look at emacs!

Lol. Ya beat me to it.

sytemdicks is controversial because it is being forced down our throats. There's a lot of other bad software, but they don't generate as much controversy because they don't have RedHat pushing it so hard.

...

We can all agree that supporting the systemd is a forced meme ...

*we can all agree that sucking the systemd is a bad idea

Also, daily reminder that a hardened RHEL distro is used internally by the NSA and the CIA. RHEL is an extension of the deep state. RHEL is not to be trusted.

The deep state wants everyone using systemd because it makes their lives easier. If you were a giant slime ball trying to kill freedom and develop malicious software that could infect every Linux box out there, would you rather fight against an ocean of unique init systems or would you rather shill a single init system so you can make one size fits all malware? Think about it for a moment.

Do your part to decentralize open source software, as it is the last bastion of computer freedom. Install a systemd-free distro today.

Even the BSDs dont follow the "Unix way" to the letter. It's a good guideline, but that's all it is.

Or the HURD for that matter.

RMS autism's is just speaking about licensing and nothing else.
In his book he explains that he liked the design of unix And made a clone of the said principals that made unix.
But Gnu is not unix because it's was made with the hacker philosophy and copyleft protection of the GPL.

Has long has it's free software licensed (even weakly licensed like systemd is with the lgpv3) he doesn't care much about the technical aspect.
Unfortunately I believe that he can't program anymore I think age is taking him away.

I believe that the GPL will solve everything. The GPL is the reason why Stallman is not concerned with what you're imagining with system.

Not at all, Stallman is as sharp today as he has been in his programming prime. What's different today is that his body is a wreck and it cannot handle the physical programming practices of his past life. He's said in the past that if his body was stronger, he'd spend more time writing software in Java.

The worst of all things is that it might happen to you.

This
The problem is that there is a lot of corporate shilling being made up buy a lot of people (github is one of them).
There is a constant misunderstanding of the compatibility of the GPL or MIT/BSD license.
In most case people say that the GPL is too complicated and they just have use the MIT/BSD because it's simple.
Bullshit I say this is pure laziness that is leading them to a trap.
The MIT and BSD are much more complex in background.
Why ?
Because since they don't have many rules they inherit most of the rules of the copyright system.
The GPL is very simple in what it does.
Protect the four freedoms, that's all.
And that means:
-share the source.
-don't restrict the use and access to it by any means.
I don't understand why people don't get it.
Of course their is one GPL license that is a bit unconventional and that's the AGPL but it's used on very specific software and his also very adapted to these software.

Good, he knows it's shit.
You don't have to like the Unix way to know a megalithic design is a bad idea.

Fuck off, Lennart. Nobody likes you.

That may be true, but the NSA sure as hell finds him useful.

He hasn't used it because trisquel doesn't use it yet because it was based on Ubuntu 14.04. Once it does he will have no problem with it as indicated by the part where he says that it's free software so it's ethical.

You're both not understanding what I said. This push for systemd is coming from the deep state and is irrelevant of the licensing, retards. The deep state wants it because it's universal, and therefore easier to hack. There would be no need for customized tools targeting the init systems. Compromise systemd and you've compromised every computer running it. That's why they want systemd.

If it's universal end "easier to hack" it is therefore also "easier to fix bugs". If anybody manages to compromise systemd, then the systemd team will fix systemd and the fix sent upstream to all the users.

What is Linux?

He doesn't like the design of unix that much, but he thinks it's good enough to get the job done and he thinks it's the most practical choice for a general-purpose free software operating system, for several reasons.

Emacs is much more "megalithic" than systemd. Systemd is actually fairly modular. A lot of its parts are independent and can be removed. They just depend on the core of systemd.

lol
lol
lmao

Why do you defensive retards always become the exact mirror image of the initial retarded meme, whatever that meme is? Overall systemd is good, but it's not the best thing ever either, it actually does have a problem with bloat.

Why doesn't he just go to a fucking gym and eat healthy food? He even has enough money for that.

He really should eat healthy food. As far as I can tell, he eats highly processed food. He doesn't go to a gym because has a leg tendon problem. He also doesn't like the membership cards that keep track his entry into the gym. His passion is in folk dancing and he would gladly return to that hobby if he had a body that would sustain it.

His experiences have taught me that it's important to take care of your body. My life is undoubtedly better than it was three years ago now that I've changed my lifestyle to include regular intense training amongst many lifestyle changes.

not an argument

Zehn SKELIM have been put into your ReadHat(TM) Account(R)

what's system d ??

a bloated shit

why so ?

github.com/systemd/systemd/issues

And please, do NOT forget """closed""" issues like this one:

github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5638

Who's behind this mess?

A fluidly israelized german pucciboi, RedHat and the CIA.

B-but you're hating !!

N-no, look at the so-called """closed""" issue above...
PROTIP: is not resolved yet.

Anyone supporting system d shit is either a millenial fat ignorant plebeian or a shill friend of israhell.

This claim sounds manufactured
I don't. The only people that think System D is a good idea know nothing about operatins systems and have never done sysadmin work
All I see is people sucking it's cock, and the only one's complaining are people on imageboards
False. It was only mass adopted when Ubuntu adopted it.
Most of them are brainwashed sheep who don't know how huge a of a security nightmare it is, or haven't delved into their system deep enough to find out why it's such a pain in the fucking ass to deal with.

OP is a faggot. Suck my cock.

I doubt they will fix it when the US Government is RedHat's biggest customer.

Then you're an idiot. Redhat is the biggest single contributor to Linux and they have no problem contributing features and fixes to their work in Linux.

You realize that you don't even have to use networkd right, retarded? You could use dhcpcd or whatever else you want. Therefor your entire post is a non argument

Also you are wrong, if you would have bothered to click on the pull request linked you could see that it was merged 6 days ago

github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/5636

tl;dr: You are an incompetent retard with no argument.

This is levels of autism I never knew existed. But still a shit thread. Have you tried sucking more dicks OP?

...

not an argument

I only have one specific issue with systemd and that is that light-locker doesn't work with it properly, but that's the light-locker dev's fault for fucking off in 2015.

what else do you have in mind?
kfreebsd?

Try to ignore completely useless posts like that. It's obvious that it isn't intended to argue anything.

90% of the problems I've run into with GNU/Linux in the past five years can be attributed to systemd, with an honorable mention to logind for being a monumental pain in the ass. I don't give a fuck what other people think of it, I'm not using it, it's caused too many problems for me and avoiding it is a triviality, so why bother? sysvinit works just fine for me.

Not an argument

Arguing with systemdfags is a waste of energy. Asserting that a manufactured controversy isn't manufactured requires zero.
Here, maybe you'll read it if I put it in big, italicised, bold, red text:
>I don't give a fuck what other people think of it, I'm not using it

...

I've got all the evidence I need to prove to myself that installing systemd is pointless, and countless late-night arguments on pre-exodus /g/ and Holla Forums proving that systemdfags consistently provide no argument favorable to systemd to prove to me it's worth installing. We've had thread after thread, and every time, systemd zealots prove time and time again that they are certifiably the cancer killing Holla Forums. And every fucking time, I'm proven to be the bad guy for not installing systemd, for not lowering myself to the level of arguing with retards, and for continuing to proclaim that these conversations are pointless. It's like God damn clockwork, I swear to God. Mods are perfectly okay with this board being the ass end of the joke for every other board on this site, nearly as laughable as Holla Forums, for reasons that only the divine can prove.
Hitchens's Razor, fuckboy. The burden of proof lies with you, not with me.

You mean the anti-systemd cucks get BTFO for not having an argument every single time, then they resort to calling people that did have arguments cancer because they are booty blasted about how BTFO they got

Which?

or maybe its that me and most other people want to USE THE FUCKING INIT SYSTEM WE CHOOSE
and not have system d shoved down our throats ???

what fucking distros are using sysvinit ???
the main argument systemd retards use is that the ONLY other init is sysvinit (HINT THERE ARE LIKE 20) open rc master race

So choose you init system. Problem solved.

Will any systemd shill address this?
Would love to read it.

why should i use systemd when runit does everything that i need already

Because your distro and the software you use already integrates with it really well. Which is precisely why systemd is like a disease that spreads. I personally like it on a usability level though and use it myself, but I dislike it on a political level.

Systemd is cucks all the way down.

This is correct. Normally, most people would disregard the existence of systemd and not bother installing it, because they don't even know what it does.
It probably gets half of its hate because people like you constantly say shit like "WHY DONT YOU USE SYSTEMD YOU RACISTS", and the other half when people discover this new piece of bloatware they have no idea why exists in their system (much like UEFI or grub2).
And so was Gnome 3 and every other piece of shit in the linux ecosystem. Big distro bros just see muh features and don't care that the shit doesn't even work and takes 30 seconds to start a picture viewer.

This. Also that
[ *] (1 of 2) stop job is running for ... (it's been fucking 10 minutes you fucking malware/infinity)

That's because the service doesn't want to stop, so systemd is basically just waiting a bunch arbitrary time instead of killing it. You can configure it to stop being a faggot and just kill the goddamn thing.

Good thing I left Linux behind over 10 years ago, before all this bullshit. And soon I'll be leaving Intel behind as well. Fucking bullshit ain't worth the time of day.

I sincerely hope you migrated to something like *BSD, otherwise you jumped into a diarrhea lake just to escape a few turds.

Linux was shit for GNU

...

naftuli.wtf/2017/01/12/systemd-is-awful/

...

what's better then?

Runit

What's better about it?

It's simple, intuitive, and it doesn't do any extra bullshit. You can use it as an init, or as a process supervisor for another init. That's all it does.

systemd exhibits classical Poettering and Red Hat Linux. We saw the same thing with PuleAudio. It was an attempt to fix something people thought (perhaps via false consensus) was broken.

And before it's finished and a quality product, you find it spreading itself across the Linux ecosystem, embedding itself as a dependency and taking over.

Here's a perfect example of why Poettering and Red Hat suck. User finds a problem, people from systemd explain why it happens as if it's a part of the functionality of systemd, and Poettering himself steps in and writes the whole thing off.

archive.is/5doQ7

This is infesting the Linux ecosystem. This attitude that systemd developers have is the exact opposite of what you would expect from someone like Linus.

Well it must be good then why didn't you say so? I mean Aids is more advanced than HIV and we all know how much people want aids right guise?

What the fuck are you talking about? Ubuntu used Upstart until 14.04. They didn't want to use systemd, but they ended up with it since Debian chose it and the amount of effort to keep using Upstart would be huge.

By the time Ubuntu adopted systemd, every other major distribution was already using it. Including fucking Debian.

Not to mention the way pulseaudio does not work with bluetooth headsets, yet is required by a lot of software that uses those headsets.

It's fucking nuts. I swear this is a plan to make linux unusable like in the 90s and increase Windows' market share.

OK this settles it for me. Systemd is definitely some sort of deep state thing. Fuck.

Not him, but the fact that "you don't even have to use whatever" is not the point. The point is what is going to be used 99% of the time. Whatever is the default.

Systemd and related is a really fucking problem. They've completely infected windows and macos and they are now going for the kill. There is no computer system in the world they haven't planted a backdoor or dos-vulnerable surface on.

This fucking guy I swear.

like ∞? that's really a lot.

in the shutdown sequence? wow
I even remember doing the ctrl+alt+delx7 force shutdown but NOTHING HAPPENED.

Seems legit.

toppest laughs
saved, thank you

Maybe if you're retarded

Notice how systemd used simplicity for the end-user as selling point, yet it is always the fault of the user when systemd fucks up.
Either it's simple to use for normies in wich case it's the fault of the developers for not making a simple to use product
OR
all the tinkering you have to do when it doesn't work is to be expected in which case it's only meant for power-users and not normies.
Systemd-apologetics is the best example of denialism, they never refute criticisms, they just claim like

does, that
when we have a wealth of example such as:

1. You can crash systemd as any user with the command [0]:
NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""
because systemd parses messages from untrustable sources as root.
2. Why use GNU rot[t]log[6] when journald does rot-log[1] and stores the logs by default in a binary format that is much more likely to be corrupted in the case of an unexpected shutdown.
3. Systemd handles man pages[2], in case you needed that.
4. Wrong screen brightness can crash the system[3]:
5. Systemd makes /etc/ read-only[4]
6. Why use nice from GNU coreutils when you have systemd[5]?
7. You can now let shitstemd handle your passwords as is appropriate for pid 1[7].

[0]: agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
[1]: github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/76153ad45f09b6ae45464f2e03d3afefbb4b2afe/NEWS#L1073
[2]: cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d1ca11270e66777c90a449096203afebc37ec9c#n1465
[3]: cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d1ca11270e66777c90a449096203afebc37ec9c#n1193
[4]: bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1350450
[5]: github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/76153ad45f09b6ae45464f2e03d3afefbb4b2afe/NEWS#L425
[6]: gnu.org/software/rottlog/manual/rottlog.html
[7]: cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS?id=2d1ca11270e66777c90a449096203afebc37ec9c#n964
All that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Some examples taken from:
suckless.org/sucks/systemd

This is also an accurate description of systemd: devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/97126865868/systemd

I'm a script guy, I literally make scripts for everything. Systemd had a lot of issues when started, and I confess I didn't like it at first. But I knew he idea was good, and now the code is mature, I cannot move back to script init. It's not efficient. And that's it. All my respect to script init, but things need to move on.

Poettering lack of humility probably didn't help either.
What is/was the main idea behind systemd? To me it seems that it's making big software and changing standards constantly. What was systemd's "pitch": "sysv sucks! Let's do it completely different."?
Some parts, maybe, others are completely fresh.
I would explore alternatives to both systemd and sysv before sticking to any of them.
That's not how Poettering codes.
Yes, absolutely! The world must move on from sysv, but is it moving on with systemd?

Systemd is something... It's no ideal. maybe It's still far from it. The idea, the way I see, is to use the full potential of the parallel processing. If the future is not systemd, maybe systemd is a step. I respect your position, Sir.

1. Garbage in, garbage out
2. GNU rotlog is written in Bash which would make Bash and the rest of GNU a dependency
4. That's not a crash, that's just bad configuration on the user. Garbage in, garbage out
5. I don't actually know the rationale but booting /etc as read only is intentional
6. This would make GNU a dependency on systemd
7. Systemd handles logins and login containers but you can't trust it with your password?

Systemd's role is to be an integrated system manager. It will start processes, manage logins and monitor services amongst other things.

Anyone got an explanation about why I should care one way or another about systemd? Preferably one for dummies because I don't know much about how init systems work other than the basics. What does it do that makes it so controversial?

It triggers the autism of neckbeard NEETs that have no idea what they are talking about, therefor it is pure evil created by the NSA to destroy GNU/Linux.

For the most part, you shouldn't care. You're not going to touch it directly so you shouldn't have to think about it. This is really a concern for people who administer the details of their own machine. For those people, they believe that they are unable to control systemd in comparison to alternative systems like Runit or Upstart.

If systemd had its way, they would be telling Linus what to do. In fact, systemd has on a number of occasions done retarded shit that fucks with kernel output and the like then refused to patch it in systemd (because does that incompatible shit by design or shit) so that others had to make kernel patches to play nice with systemd, something which iirc pissed off Linus a bit - that systemd's jackass developers refused to fix their own retarded software and instead wanted others to mod the kernel to work with systemd.

...

Nothing crashed. The problem is PEBCAK.

An OS is not supposed to crash because the init/process manager/... blindely trusted the input from a normal user.
Examples 2. 3, 6, and 7 where examples of things it is unescessary for a process manager to do. Why should the process manager do it when there already are well tested tools to do the job? Those are not trust issue. Of course you have to trust the init. That applies to each and every one of them.
Examples 1, 4 and 5 are instances of severe bugs that can ruin the day for anyone greybeard, neckbeard and normie alike.

Couldn't it do all of those things, but nothing more while stabilazing the API?

You don't want your software to have a (hard) dependecy on any init system. Some gentoo users had problems installing dbus without systemd[0]. Also, systemd changes very often, so you run the risk of being left holding the bag[1]. The larger a software infrastructure is, the more important it is that it's stable and has a reliable API. Systemd is large and changes at the whim of Poettering.

If systemd was used on android, I think it would have upset more than neckbeards. Having your computer freeze on you is something that upsets everyone, even the ones that cried about NSA mass surveillance before 1999[2].

What does that say about your init/process manager when the Linux kernel developers have to clean up your mess in their code, and arranging a conference makes sense?

Typical victim blaming. The init/pm is something that an ordinary desktop user should (almost) never have to deal with.

[0]: forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7782340.html?sid=8e496e3d80266ca626aa864e5534929a
[1]: without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd#Breaking_promises_and_immaturity
[2]: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/503224.stm

That's correct. A user who is fiddling around with brightness values of their init system deserve everything they get. A user with a preconfigured systemd installation will never see any problem.

Who wants to bet 7 kekcoins that OP works at Mozilla.

and everyone in this thread who is anti-systemd is a microsoft shill

Take the best aspects of launchd and SMF without the shit, and the fact that it wasn't Upstart (after Red Hat had transitioned to Upstart and realized Canonical gave them a broken pile of garbage that wouldn't be fixed.)

systemd is maintained by SJW
hate for systemd is not a meme

...

Can a systemdfag actually explain to me what systemd's benefits are over runit or openrc?
Im not trying to be confrontational, I'd really like to know what the argument for it is other than 'sysvinit is shit.'

How do I know this isn't a meme to preserve your shitty HTTP server init that nobody asked for.

Seriously, what is so hard about editing a text file in V-Init? I still can't figure out how to do anything in systemd. Who the fuck says shitstemdicks is easier?

It's unified.
It's homogeneous.
It's monoculture.
It's white male culture.

Fuck you.

At least NSA shills know how to argue on le chans, good job you lovable faggots!

this gets answered every fucking thread, and you morons ignore it.
it's the benefits of solaris SMF and macos launchd without any of the dogshit.
if you want to use your autist init, then use it. distributions do not have to support your autist init. it's that simple.

I've never used either of these enough to know all their features so I can't compare but I'd say it's more idiot-friendly and requires less work from distro maintainers and upstream.
Despite disliking systemd devs themselves and some of their decisions it works very well for me, and it's extremely simple to write my own services. I was very skeptical of it at first, until I started using it myself.
If you need to ask then I don't think there's any benefit for you to use systemd, advanced users will know why they use one over the other.

/thread

My experience is the reverse. I installed (((systemd))) as soon as it was available (but not yet mandatory) on arch because muh faster boot times. Turned out saving a few seconds of boot time per year is not worth (for me) all the problems it caused me since (poweroff for instance is broken again).

The people who dislike systemd seemingly have not administered more than one system at a time and think that init scripts are a sign of purity. I understand the sentiment, though those who follow this line of thinking should understand that many people don't want to deal with init scripts across multiple distributions/hardware when you can issue commands or changes in general across your entire fleet via systemd. It's childish, autistic thinking perpetuated by a catv meme.

I started using it very late, basically only a few months ago (December last year). I tried it once before that and had the shutdown issues as well. So for a while I was trying out a bunch of distros like Void and Alpine in order to avoid it.
This time I didn't have any issues yet though, I'm running version 229.

is that pic fucking real???
I was getting super depressed because I KNEW for a fact they were trying to get systemd shit put directly into the kernel and that would RUIN the entire ecosystem
thank god for linus

Unless they discover the vulnerability and not tell anyone.
Any self-respecting hacker or group of hackers has a catalog of vulnerabilities they keep close to their chest for when the time comes to use them.

SystemD is riddled with holes. It's just too big of an attack surface.
The thing is, I like it, you know? It's pretty convenient. But the fact that some day in the near future every single Linux system that matters (mainstream servers) will share such an attack surface right at PID 1 terrifies me.

OpenRC

Every single advantage systemd has over sysvinit it you can say about openrc. And on top of that it's much less intrusive and has less dependencies than systemd.

user...

Where is your self-respect, faggot?

Are you fucking retarded you fucking moron? Set your brightness at minimum and restart.

Disregard this, I actually suck cocks.

They will, eventually.

As a desktop user, not a system administrator, it bothers me that systemd breaks randomly. Literally do nothing but restart your computer, and sometimes systemd will crap out. What the fuck is that about?
No other init system does that. In fact, when I used Gentoo with systemd I used to think Gentoo was super unstable and unreliable (like Arch). Turns out it had nothing to do with the distro.

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Only shills give a fuck about arguing about this stupid shit anymore. If you want system dicks, enjoy. If not, there's ZERO convincing the people who don't want that shit and they have perfectly good reason to be highly suspicious and this just adds fuel to the fire. This entire threads just reeks of people going, "These anti-systemd folk are evil, autistic, will rape your family dog, manipulative, or whatever."

There is good reason for sysd, but that doesn't automatically mean everything before it should just be thrown out the window. The reasons to not use it and stick with openrc or sysv or whichever are too numerous. Hell, there are various good points to avoid sysd mentioned in this thread. But it doesn't matter, sysd is not the only game in town and it's just fucking stupid and naive to think it ever will be, hence the demonizing of those successful at avoiding it. A lot of tutorials today demonstrate how to accomplish tasks the systemd or the alt init way. And if you're not a developer, then it really doesn't matter. I'm starting to notice the inits start to coalesce in the linux ecosystem nicely: determining what kind of init script you want to use can be set while configuring your kernel. From there .configure for software installs should handle the rest. Year of the Linux Desktop soon.

Anyway, my personal reason for not switching over: lack of trust. Lennart's a fucking snake. If you refuse to acknowledge that, I'm not stabbing out my own eyes just so we can fucking sing kumbaya and live peacefully together later. All that aside, I actually appreciate RH.

This is one of the most boring and tiresome arguments at this point.
All I am going to say is that the backlash is not about systemd or its pros or cons but the precedent it sets. If you have a high time preference, something surprisingly rare in technology circles, you will be alarmed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

...

OP is a cancerous faggot.

Fuck Lennart Poettering and everything he touches. And fuck you newfags for being stupid enough to shill his huge-attack-surface shovelware.

...

cringey pic fam, hope it was ironic

...

Pfft. And what, are you implying this is? Tell you, just do us all a favor and post more OC would you? It's what you're paid for isn't it? As if I have time to sit hear and nitpick through the diarrhea that is systemd to tell you what's wrong with it. Point being, it doesn't matter at this point. There's enough intelligent people around to work through this shit.

mein nikker.

But either way you're retarded.

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

...

Linux has needed something like systemd for a very long time. Pulseaudio a shit, Poettering and co. are fags; but systemd itself fills a role, isn't complete garbage, and has no viable alternative.

The best that systemd detractors can come up with is a call to a return to shell scripts and lightweight init systems in some laughable misguided crusade against bloat. Nevermind the fact that the typical GNU/Linux system is already a big ball of mud by virtue of being a loosely assembled group of packages rather than a cohesive operating system project. If anything, systemd is responsible for slimming down the typical GNU/Linux system by deprecating reams of distro-specific shell scripts and unmaintained infrastructure packages.

If you are truly serious about being against the bloat and technical debt that systemd introduces, you should have abandoned Linux long ago and switched to something like OpenBSD. Gentoo is an admirable attempt, but still hamstrung by the shit that is the GNU/Linux software system.

the thing is systemd is the best init: it brings up sockets out of sync with processes and loads processes concurrently, and restarts hung services. it's basically the mac OS init system with the benefit of hindsight and built for a real kernel. There's bugs, sure, but there were showstopping bugs with pulse initially as well.

There could be paid shills trying to antagonize a fracture point but honestly most of the noise is coming from BSDcucks. They're butthurt that they're going to lose the gnome desktop without a ports team. Honestly they haven't even gotten a taste of any of the good software made for their own operating system (unless they buy a playstation 3+, or a macbook). I don't see why they'd get so shitted off about losing linux stuff.

I guess you'd hit upstart which is used in skiddie distros like mint and poobuntu, which happen to be the most common anyway.

slackware.com/config/init.php

if bsd init was superior freebsd wouldn't have an effort to port launchd before and after it was relicensed.

Hey look, fiat currency is a natural step forward. It's the future. Also, take on lots of debt, because everyone else is doing it. Never question why or seriously try the alternatives, just conform, because the authorities have already decided what's best for you. You don't own nothing, goyim.

>>>/g/
You're not even worth replying to. Get out.

QNX

FreeBSD ports whatever it can to be NotLinux! TM.

...

systemd was pretty much the sole reason boot failures ~routinely~ happened in 2012-2014 when arch switch to systemd. I learned to hate it then and still think it's awful.

...

BSDcucks should be used to getting cucked by now due to their cuck license, but apparently not.

Just

not an argument

LOL

Fuck off, OP is a self-shilling faggot

Another OP self-shilling. kys

not an argument

said user for the millionth time in 10 years...

You mean like Linux?

Mr. Poettering, it's time for your daily RHEL enema.

Checking an underrated post.

By the way: As a normalfag regarding linux internals, is there a distro out there which is as easy to install as e.g. Ubuntu but without systemDick?

STOP BUMPING THIS SHITTY THREAD!

I think its rather cute that the NSA fuccbois will shill that hard for their shit. It also supports all the suspicions about it being an intelligence-crafted submarine to infiltrate the "free as in beer" community

You gave up on UNIX the second You installed a web browser.

10 Fuck You!
20 GOTO 10

TRIGGERED

Meh, that's only true for the bigass ones that try to shove everything into a VM. Otherwise browsers like wget, curl, OpenBSD's ftp, and even Lynx allow various levels of scripting from the command line.

I wouldn't call wget a web browser, but either way, wget is very large and featureful and un-unix.

One of the biggest problems with systemd is that it is attempting to become a kernel+. The scope creep is outrageous and intentional enough that anyone referring to systemd as just an init system is a liar, and it seems that ultimately the ambitions of Poettering and co is that if they can't control the kernel (although they do seem to get their kicks from passing the buck along and forcing someone to patch the kernel instead when systemd breaks something - this is what pissed Torvalds off), they would simply create a kernel+ that all Linux distributions would require, giving them control of the Linux ecosystem anyway. Their goal appears to have been to make systemd a service that manages your system and hard dependency without which you can't run Linux (unless you want to be crippled, maybe). The way systemd absorbed udev is a very solid indicator of that. And that's not a power or authority that Poettering and his pals can remotely be trusted with.

See: without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd#Breaking_promises_and_immaturity

Poettering embedded udev into systemd so that distributions like Gentoo would be forced to run systemd or lose their device file manager. Gentoo responded by forking udev to continue running without systemd, and I assume Poettering was very butthurt about that.

Gentoo's fork is called eudev, by the way. wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/eudev

You're wrong. udev was merged into systemd because as the maintainer of udev, he felt that it should be modified to work under the systemd platform. Poettering doesn't care about eudev because he's not responsible for it; eudev has zero effect on his work in systemd and udev.

That is some quality shilling there, mate. Several questions like "why does udev even need to be incorporated into the systemd project in the first place" and "why did Poettering break his promise to maintain udev as an independent project when he took over udev" and "then why did Poettering tell Gentoo folks to get with the program as he broke his promises and made udev require systemd" went completely unanswered. The answer is simple: Poettering took over udev so he could have more scope creep on his systemd shit because his goal is to force systemd on everyone and basically standardize Linux according to his personal vision. He wants to be the authority controlling Linux.

There's no legitimate reason for stealing udev from the larger linux community and telling everyone to get with his systemd program or make do without udev all of a sudden. These are not the actions of a well-meaning individual who has everyone's interests at heart. And if Poettering couldn't be arsed to handle udev responsibly, he should never have taken over the project in the first place.

On the one hand i think that standarization of something like a init agent is a good thing and i have to say im impressed how poettering single-handedly changed the whole linux landscape with pulseaudio as well!

At the same time im very sceptical to a binary log format because 1) it makes it harder for recovery stuff where you HAVE to have the right program to even read a log and 2) Why? Why even have the log be binary anyway? Is this a CIA coup?

udev needed to be incorporated because he maintains systemd. That is the reason. He broke his promise to keep udev independent of systemd because he felt that udev would be better served under systemd semantics. Udev is GPL for a reason. GPL means every user is allowed to fork it. People who don't like systemd-udev are perfectly within their rights to fork it and this is exactly what happened. Problem solved.

Poettering is the authority controlling systemd, Poettering cannot control Linux.

Do tell how incorporating udev into systemd's functions made it a better init system. Ah, wait, it doesn't. It's a fat case of scope creep and assimilating more necessary system functions into systemd as it worms its way into becoming a larger and larger dependency for linux systems.

udev is not a person. No one cares how udev feels or what's "good for udev." What matters is what is good for the end-user. Last I checked cutting out everyone who wasn't on systemd from having udev isn't good for the end-user, especially when you promised not to do that.

You mean Poettering once again made his messes someone else's problem, which is a very recurring pattern with him. He gave everyone else on udev the option of installing systemd or losing udev unless they started writing around his messes. Those were his words: "we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call." The post in question had a definite nuance of Poettering wanting to screw over anyone who was not on systemd. Gentoo then had to fork the thing to continue having udev without having to put up with Poettering's shit.

No, but if he can force the Linux distributions to require systemd, and he controls systemd, then he can control Linux at large. That's not a responsibility or authority he can be trusted with, frankly. I'm curious to hear your justifications for how Poettering will totally restrain himself and not change the scope of systemd like we all know he will.

I didn't realise Red Hat had paid shills until you made it this obvious.

special snowflake detected

I never bothered looking at the exact reason, since you can just turn it off. It's a simple setting. Debian uses text logs by default.

You missed a shill. This guy is a shill too. He just praised systemd and pulseaudio as good things, and wanted to show how much he fit in by calling the binary logs a CIA coup. It's easy to dismiss him as a fucking moron, but it's worth noting that this is a shill post style. He will "agree" with some small point while trying to persuade you that the big shit is totally good for you.

It's actually pretty impressive. Used to be (like 20 years ago) you could download a floppy disk image of QNX, and it booted into a desktop environment. Linux + XFree86 couldn't even come close to that, and those were leaner than today.

You can still do that with MenuetOS.

menuetos.net/

That never happened. udev is not proprietary software, shit argument

"Free as in freedom" doesn't mean "free from responsibility" or "free from need for maintenance" numbnuts.

not an argument, retard. FLOSS means free to be forked if you do not like the direction of the current maintainer.

which it was
install eudev you retard

Tell me more about how Poettering's track record of taking over important shit and then fucking over people who are not on systemd as well as making other people have to fix the shit he broke in general is a good thing.

The faggot you replied to is just going to post
Why bother.

Manjaro

Most sensible post in the whole thread.

pure ideology and sho on and sho forth

not an argument

I don't think it matters whether the controversy is manufactured. There's no way alphabet agencies are going to ignore an opportunity to stir up shit and make people lose focus on more important things. Plus the added bonus of making everyone involved on both sides look like total crazies, undermining any points they might have about anything else.

mirrors.dotsrc.org/fosdem/2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORCHESTRA_Annual_Status_Report.webm

this , but make sure you get the openrc version as they do provide a systemd version aswell.

Poettering pls KYS

...

This seems reasonable.

GNU Shepherd is much older than systemd.

fuck off and die cia nigger

sage

switch to openbsd, they are obsessed with code correctness

Nice downboats.

Pulseaudio may be shit, but it's pretty useful when combined with pavucontrol, since when you have multiple audio cards, switching between them with Alsa is nearly impossible.

It's also your only option to control HDMI audio since ALSA doesn't let you control the volume of HDMI just mute and unmute it.

Devuan

Why? Why faggots like you have to ruin every interesting conservation? Fuck you, asshole.

I've been gone for several months. What the fuck does this even mean?

I'll admit I don't know the first thing about linux and I lurk 99% of the time, but I'm wary of it because yes, I've read shit and I don't know who to beleive. My biggest concern is that it's made by a former Red Hat employee whose biggest contractor was the US government thus leading me to believe systemd was sort of a way to infiltrate Linux and Systemd is too big to properly vet. Although I've come to a point now where I don't really care anymore and I just want a stable secure distro that isn't ubuntu.

As others have said, OpenRC Manjaro.

There doesn't even need to be any vulnerabilities in systemd itself. Linux is general isn't all that secure. They care more about performance, features, device support, and so on.
But what systemd accomplishes does make it easier for the exploit writer, because now the environment is more uniform across Linux distros. There's less guesswork needed. Maybe Lennart isn't a cianigger and it's just a side-effect rather than by design, but the end result is the same.

Then why the fuck do you care if a distro is running systemd?
Personally, I hate it, because I like being able to read and understand what Slackware's 831 lines (rc.M and rc.S) init scripts are doing, which makes it way easier for me to modify, since I don't have to learn anything new, compared to systemd that would require me to learn something other than shell, and go through their extensive but cryptic documentation.
But other than that there's no reason to avoid systemd like the plague unless you're a developer of any kind (in which case you shouldn't use any systemd interfaces) or a distro maintainer. As a user who will probably not do much more than enable and disable a few services once in a while this barely affects you.

it is poetteringware

You could say the same thing about Windows or any other software a dumbass user will use. It still affects you even if you don't understand the underlying code or problems with it. I'm sick of seeing this argument posted word for word any time systemd is discussed. It's just bad advice that baits newfags into trying systemd so they won't even attempt to use anything else. This cancer must not be allowed to spread any further.

I live my life based on meme's. You cant get me to like something I barely know about just because you assert with out evidence that the meme I know and love was created by CIA Jews.

cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-9445

RIIR?

Oh look, it's fucking nothing.

...

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT, RABBI (((SHEKELSTEIN)))! 0.02 SHEKELS HAS BEEN DEPOSITED IN YOUR (((JIDF))) ACCOUNT!

HEY CAN I BUILD MINT WITH OPENRC INSTEAD OF SHIT-D?

install gentoo

BUT WHAT IF I'M BASICALLY FUNCTIONALLY RETARDED?

ISN'T GENTOO LIKE LEVEL-3 COMPUTAR-WIZARD SHIT?

then you cant build mint either.

D;

install devuan

live action role playing

...

Tell me that after not being able to boot because systemd waits forever for a network interface or a block device (I've had the second personally happen to me on a laptop when I was outside and needed it). It's really badly designed.

BSD startup scripts, slackware I know uses it

dont all hdmi devices have their own audio controls?

Debian Stretch is already having trouble due to systemd. The infinitely retarded 'predictable interface names' feature makes virtualized installs have unpredictable interface names. Debian's disabled it in their EC2 images but left it in the others literally because systemd being shit is too sensitive a topic. So now Debian's diverged with different features depending on how you install it to protect the feels of the pro-systemd crowd.

lists.debian.org/debian-cloud/2017/06/msg00007.html