Serious Religion Discussion

What is the point in believing in something without empirical evidence to back it up? Take the bible for instance: many of its stories are just retellings of older stories with minor changes and additions. Why would anyone call this the word of God when the books are not even the original editions? If I wrote the Lord of the Rings and then my editor got a hold of it, and then later fans inserted their own chapters and changed character names, and then even later someone put Narnia and Harry Potter in there, and masses of people started calling it the word of God, I would be seriously weirded out by all the autism that just took place. How does this even happen?

So if you accept religions are mostly nonsense and outright fiction, then what? Does it even matter if someone believes there is a god or creator or not? How does that make a difference in somebody's day to day life? Sure it can be an interesting philosophical discussion, but no gods told me why we're here or what's going to happen when we die, and if they did, I forgot about it somehow. Does it even matter why? Should we be so concerned about why life happened and what happens after life when we could be giving it all we've got to make the best life happen while it's still happening?

Faith

you should ask mathematicians

Way too many questions, OP

I can think of lots of points, just none that make much sense. Take this stock response for example:

If you find any value in nationalism, you would find value in religion. It's something to bring people together. I myself am conflicted on this being a good thing. You also have to realize that a lot of people don't have the necessary IQ to rationalize what feels natural (morality) so they need religion to make sense of it. I don't even hate on low IQ people. They can't help it, it's mostly genetical.

That's not even a complete thought. What are you saying?

Mathematicians spend their time proving theorems. They put hard work into making the hardest type of evidence anyone can come up with for a statement being true in a given logical framework. Sure they frequently deal with abstract objects that don't necessarily have a parallel with real world experience, but to imply it is specifically mathematicians that spend significant time believing in things without empirical evidence is just nonsense when they make it their job to prove things on a stricter and more objective level than any other profession or hobby.

Maybe you are saying that they assume axioms to see what follows. Calling this "believing" is a gross misuse of language and seems like a distraction to avoid dealing with everything I just said.

I'm saying that mathematical proofs are pure logic with zero empirical evidence

The evidence is in showing you followed the rules of the given logic system for each deduction. I'm not sure if you have some profound point or if you have your own precise definitions that I can't see and it all amounts to semantics.

I just took offence to OP claiming that empirical evidence is the only thing that matters, completely ignoring logical reasoning

He kinda has a point since math doesn't use measurement. On the other hand I see it as a study of the way our brain sees things. It's actually insane that such level or rigour is possible given the topic at hand.

Objectively, and from a philosophical point of view, there is no difference. From a practical point of view, god and eternal damnation tends to be a hell of a lot more terrifying than a day in the stocks or a few lashes. Scale, I guess?

Christian philosophy is breddy good, so why not that one? It's been proven over millennia to produce great societies and great people. No other religion comes close.

Where does atheism lead? Usually to government being the people's god, which is why it's so hard by the powers that be. There may be the occasional Stephen Molyneaux or Neitsche, but you're neither of those people. Only the fittest philosophytards can manage to break through atheism and lead life well. Is a perspective that destroys almost all who touch it really something you want to dabble with? Religion is just another piece of evolution. Embrace it or be a neanderthal.

Faggot religion is pointless without faith.
You see almost every single religion in the world is just an excuse to do what they think feels good like more or less what said. Opiate of the masses is preety fucking accurate.

The only exception is Biblical Christianity and not the muh feels christian denominations out there that ZOG subverted. But I am biased in that being a christian. I would argue that I don't do what I feel is good. I do what I would not like in order to please God from what He says via his word, the Bible. Most people would call that faith. Because it makes no fucking sense not to do what is in your physical interest.

You shouldn't need to think too hard to come up with examples of religious people doing terrible things.

People are inherently selfish and find it difficult to resist their unscrupulous impulses (some more than others), and neither a belief in hell nor a knowledge of secular ethics seems to be much of a deterrent–this is why we have laws.

Pick one and only one. You probably prefer the earlier.
/thread

I was the user both of those times. Just thought you'd want to know.

In all seriousness, I'm glad you have a code and structure to live your life by. It helps a hell of a lot when the going gets tough, and I'm glad you have that.

That doesn't work for me. I studied the pagan traditions of judaism for a while and I grew massively dis enfranchised with the whole slew of religions stemming from it. I'm probably gonna go buddhist at some point.

Still, like OP said, Christianity can be traced back to a pagan, semitic religion (IE LoTR with HP and Narnia thrown in). I think its pretty hard to argue that's any different from Astrau or Shinto.

Let's take the atheistic perspective and follow it to it's end. You are nothing more than a dank meme.You replicate, and spread your genes. Evolution has shaped every facet of you to do basically this. Look up stats on fag atheists. Atheism leads to faggotry. Look up stats on divorce, child bearing, or even just plain monetary success. Atheism is a loser ideology that will be bred out by evolution one way or another. Atheism may have been growing in the past, but that's only because the powers that be push it to destroy you.

False equivalence. I'm not here to tell you religion is perfect. It is not. What's good about Protestant Christianity is that it produces a culture and society with freedom, innovation, and happiness. Nobody can rewrite the bible. The real difference is that your ruled by Jesus instead of a bunch of elitist bankers who hate you and want to make you weak. I know where the road of Christianity leads. It is a path I would like to follow. I pick Jesus.

So are you not aware that Christianity itself, as in the "original" version portrayed in the bible, is a Semitic religion without any additional subverting required or are you just fucking with us?

This is a path of destruction. Hedonism will create your own personal hell on earth.

God is good. I know this so I follow him.

I pick strength. I pick God.

See:

I think perhaps the best universal maxim is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Do I need religion and the threat of eternal punishment to try and live by it? Certainly not, and the vast majority of Christian concepts are hardly unique to Christianity, anyway. I think the majority of Christians are pretty shit at assimilating their moral constructs, and they actually """believe""" they'll go to hell if they're not good little boys and girls.

If we really do need to propagate myth in order to preserve the species, then it's probably best we die off. In fact, not to sound too edgy, but I think there's a pretty solid case to be made for antinatalism, but I suppose that's another discussion.

This idea that religion is the main thing that keeps people in line is nonsense.

Yeah, but what do you do when people stop buying that bullshit?

Oh look, another stupid nigger who doesn't understand bell curves. Your public school education failed you.

Religious people are *generally* more moral than atheists.

A response from a different user in two parts.

First, and? Atheism is only an unsuccessful ideology in modern society because it has been co opted by degenerates and idiots. About 15(ish) years ago, it was lead by a group of men generally intent on enlightening the world. Now, it needs a purge, because, like an animal in the wild, it's become diseased. Eventually the idiots and degenerates will die off and there could be a revival of the philosophy. Intellectual survival of the fittest.

Secondly, holy fucking shit, the bible is rewritten every fucking month! Not just the king james version, but every time a new edition of 20 different publishers are put out, changes are made! Far be it for me to defend the 1%, but a hell of a lot of them espouse Christianity and as far as I can tell, you don't have the authority to claim they aren't true christians unless you want to claim you have the truest, most objectively correct interpretation of a 2000 year old book.

Also, user, remember that pepe and meme magic are parts of Chan myth, yet, according to the main stream media, we put Trump in the white house with them. Don't view mythology as just a crutch, but see it as a means to satisfy certain desires in a less destructive manner. Especially if the religion itself is less destructive than, say, Islam or Progressiveism.

Wear your brown pants and hope you can feed the Nobs to the horde looking to hang their overlords before they can get their hands on you?
Seriously though, people just feed themselves a different type of bullshit. We seem to have a near physical need, as a species, for a higher power or cosmic purpose.
Also, do you know the funniest thing? People still buy that bullshit wholesale, every god damned day.

Oh look, not a single graph in sight to illustrate your utterly baseless claim

religion is better. end of conversation. not interested in your opinion.

Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive, ergo, according to the both, the other is living in sin. Therefore, according to religion, the majority of religious people are living a sinful life. With that understood, we can now understand that religious people are actually all immoral.

Thanks for stopping by, pal.

Scratch that, the logic may have been funny, but even I am ashamed of how lazy that was.

Allow me to restate: Religions are mutually exclusive, therefore, someone not meeting all tenets of all religions, so long as he believes in one, is living in sin. This is due to the fact that no religion is verifiably true, as such, all religions are equally true. That is, as true as something that can not be proven or dis proven can be.

As such, all religious people are, vaguely, equally immoral and sinful. Therefore, only atheists and agnostics can be moral. As such, non-theists, in general, are more moral than the entirety of all theists.

Actually, you bring up something that illustrates my point perfectly: The fact that Trump and his bootlickers used Christianity to help win the election is, as far as I'm concerned, a case-in-point that Christianity doesn't necessarily lead to people becoming more Christ-like.

To be fair, I am a trumpcuck. I voted for him mostly because I though Hilldog was gonna start WW3. Guess it didn't matter huh?

But yeah. Appeals to christendom do not, inherently, make individuals more christian. Still, I think trump was the less destructive of the choices so I would personally mark this up as something positive done with the aid of christianity.

That's a good start, but there's more that is needed than simply this. Inside of Christianity strength. For example one Christian virtue is gluttony. It is sinful to engage in excess. This is a virtue our culture desperately needs as hedonistic atheists push things like "fat acceptance" and other such filth.

Do you need caffeine in the morning? Certainly not. But you probably take it anyway because it makes you a better, stronger person.

Christianity shares some concepts with other religions. That does not make these concepts any less useful or good. In fact, it supports the notion that these are useful concepts to live by.

I never said it was perfect, or that people are perfect. I only assert that Christianity makes you a little bit more perfect. One could say it makes you a bit more close to God.

You're weak. This is exactly why atheism is a shit ideology.

Says the weak guy. lmao

This never ceases to amaze me. Good talk, user

Pick something you believe is good and look up some unpozzed scholarly studies on it. I don't know what atheists believe is good. Sometimes it's nothing.

G'night anons. I had fun debating with you guys. Still wish we could more of these going. Most of the time these threads get spammed or derailed.
Catch yah Holla Forumsros later.

Not to be a cunt and post and run, but your second point is unarguably wrong. If you are dependent on caffeine to function, you're an addict, not stronger.

And in general, you're not making a coherent argument user. I'd suggest you take a step back and re order your thoughts.

And the idea that anyone would vote for Bernie is laughable to me. "shrug" Guess that's just us being different. Thanks for being chill my leftybro. Catch yah on the flipside.

I meant Protestant Christians are generally more moral than atheists. idc about islam, not getting into semantics

KEK! Without a source, I'm as certain as I could possibly be that the Christian population in the U.S. is fatter than the non-religious population. Also, I think you probably spend too much time online focusing on the fringes.

Actually, it just raises my anxiety and makes me crash earlier in the day–this actually serves as a fitting analogy.

Sure, it depends on the moral concept. But as I said earlier, there is no substantial evidence that Christians are more decent human beings than atheists.

At this point, I'm actually a little embarrassed that I'm responding to this post.

Something tells me you have a very superficial idea of what constitutes strength.

A response from a different user in two parts.

It only took 15ish years for your shit ideology to get pozzed. Atheism is weak and therefore bad, even from a purely evolutionary standpoint.

I read KJV only. I don't need to claim I have the truest, most objectively correct interpretation. I don't give a fuck about that. My interpretation is a source of strength for me and so I follow it. People have been trying to pozz Christianity for centuries and it's still standing, not unscathed, but it's still a great philosophy.

anytime, friendo!

You're missing the point about caffeine.

This is all I need to see to know that your ideology is garbage. From an evolutionary standpoint, this is a loser ideology that will be weeded out. Christianity to me is akin to the eyebrows on my head that keep the sweat out of my eyes. I will reproduce the eyebrows and they will help me reproduce the rest of my genes. It is a symbiotic relationship that I embrace. Enjoy your sweaty eyes nigger.

You're arguing against the analogy. Caffeine is just a placeholder for something that makes you a better person. Replace it with a vitamin or something if you want to be that pedantic. Protestant Christianity makes people better, and I don't actually care if it's true or not. I take it anyways because it doesn't need to be true to work. Faith is strength.

Alright, this is my last response, 'cause you seem a little special.

1. Atheism is not an ideology
2. Technically, I'm agnostic because I acknowledge that I can't disprove the existence of God (or any other supernatural thing for that matter). But I can say, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there's no good reason to believe it, given the absence of tangible evidence to support any notion of God.

I think intellectual honesty and a logical search for truth makes one "stronger".

G'night

BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. FUCK YOU. WE'RE HAVING A REASONABLE DISCUSSION HERE. GET THE FUCK OFF THE PHONE

I hope you don't fall into any of the traps that agnostics tend to fall into. There's lots of them. After watching my steps, trying to avoid all the traps, eventually I realized that I was basically striving to be a Protestant Christian and faithlessness was just another trap to be avoided. Good luck.

btw I keep quoting this because it's a trap you've already fallen into

we are the same person

is harry potter real?
is humpty dumpty real?
are the three little pigs and the big bad wolf real?

no. but you still tell kids these stories.
you tell stories that aren't real because they're still true.

a hero is the one who breaks the rules constantly, learns his strength comes from his parents who sacrificed so much for him, who may want to wait for a hero to save him but must be the one who saves himself
a fall from a great height will kill you, and it won't be like a graze on the knee
different people build up different things, and because of that some will fail and some will succeed, so it's better to build something strong

*shoves banana up the ass*

B-b-b-but science does this all the time!
Take for example the assertion that something without mass does not exist. It is something that science holds as fact, despite never actually testing for it (primarily because it can't). It is one of the foundational concepts of physics, and there is no empirical evidence to back it up.

...

Can we get a
HAIL ERIS!
up in here?

HUZZAH! fno​rd

Did you see one too, Dysnomia?
I didn't know you got up this early! Although lately…

I didn't see anything!
Are you going to tell me there's nothing to see?
I am certain She is Invisible because I cannot see Her.
I believe She is Pink and horny, just like me because I choose to.

photons and neutrinos are both massless particles. it only says that if they have no mass then they must travel at the speed of light

what is this shit

When you'll live long enough, at some point you'll start noticing weird shit in this world. Far more weird than the fact that jews control the world, by being a majority of most succesful countries' government, of the globalist elitist circle, and many other things, like managers and presidents of media and entertainment companies.
And, at that point, you will understand that what's happening right now is far more deep than the simple organisations of kikes.
At that point, you will find the needed information only by studying and understanding the God, and the Bible.

logic is a mechanism to which u feed information. U dont have information about gods, i.e. evidence

therefore shove bananas up the ass and have sex with everyone you know

wew, lad

not only is it a slippery slope fallacy, but also u didnt show how sex toys and sex is bad

therefore deflower my sister and impregnate my mother

if they want it and r hot, how is it bad, faggot?

(checked)
Ok, these dubs convince me somewhat
Also a question for you Catholic Christianity is the best Christianity, right? All these these other variations (probably excluding Protestants and the Eastern Orthodox) are just kike-infested copies?

...

therefore skull-fuck your pet dog and finger your dad in his sleep

why?

It can be hard to explain to someone who isn't already religious, like explaining what red looks like to a colorblind person, i guess?
However, If you want something purely tangible, the eternally fulfilling knowledge that everything you do is essentially a test of courage in an endless series of battles against an enemy who can only win Pyrrhic victories is nice.

t.neckbearded young edgelord
wasted trips

they r not wasted
stay delusional, retard

because why not? god does not exist, right? so why not?

shit, stop wasting our precious numbers with your edgy posts

how bout because i dont want to rape your dog, or father? Why would i cause them harm, if they didnt cause me harm?

stop being retarded

cause actions have consequences and u need to live with them

voodoo is the one true religion dubs confirm

i would if i were
btw you did it again, faggot

u r and u clearly cant
whats the proof of god again?

...

so u dont have any and im right - nice of u to actually admit it

A lot of people are in desperate need of beliving there's some superior intelligence, that their suffering is part of a master plan.

ITT the circlejerking of fedora tippers

...

All right lads let us settle this. Let's try to make it as rational as possible. And let's forget religions for a while. We have to discuss God first.

We will never understand God, but what's obvious is, it is not a human, it does not have feelings like love, hate, boredom. For example if God loves us then why did it create us? Creating heaven and hell, or stuff like that makes it guaranteed that some people will go to hell and suffer.

Neither God hates us, because we can feel pain.

Let's not forget that Gos will never show or prove itself by making the slightest effect fo Earth. It will kill the faith because you have proof that God exists. You don't believe or not believe water because you can prove it.

I will write more hold up

It's true. Everyone smarter than you is an uncool fedora tipper (aka nerd). You should continue believing everything your parents and society told you while growing up including Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. After all this is Never Land and independent, thinking adults are the enemy deserving of the utmost disdain and enmity.

It would be dumb to be atheist because you can't prove that God doesn't exist. If you want benefit, you either believe in God or be agnostic. Both way you are either correct or it will never be proved.

Atheism has a chance to be wrong as well. If we could actually understand any sort of higher being or purpose of life, you actually kill the purpose itself.

Let's say you play a vidya and you finish it, experience all of it. What's the point of playing it again if you know the experience? Dumb example but get the point.

We will never understand the purpose of life, God, because if we could, we would be God as wel.

Our purpose is to search the purpose but never find it. If we could find the purpose, there wouldn't be any purpose to learn

Me again. If there is no God, no reason of life, then why would anything exist. Something is, well, something because it has a reason. Everything has a reason.

If there is no God or reason to life, a human shouldn't build society. It would either do whatever it wants or commkt suicide. There is no judgement for actions.

It still confuses me as why atheists act normal if they truly believe that God is not real. They either want to be edgy, seek attention or they understood concept of God and life wrong.

Only seeing Christianity when it comes to God or religion would make me atheist as well.

I can't blame anyone for what they do or believe

There is a great deal of empirical evidence on the matter, as well as arguments for both side which imply relevant conclusions. The fact that you don't know this means you're probably not very well read on the topic. Whether it is enough to warrant or compel belief or disbelief is the contention.

TBH if God exists he probably doesn't give a shit whether or not earthlings believe in Him.

Putting aside the possibility of an afterlife, your current life objectively does not matter if God doesn't real and (probably) matters or will at least be observed by an omniscient being if he does. That's not a reason to think God exists, it's just a fact.

Heat death is going to happen no matter what you or I do or how long we live, and there will not even be ruins to mark our passing; it's all vanity.

As far as evidence goes, the ones theists use are usually

The evidence against God is usually something like

Before you jump head first into making a post, if your goal is to engage in fruitful discussion, it is normal to actually read what you are replying to first. Confused? Here's a hint: I made no claim about ____. I'll leave it to you to fill in the blank.

OP is making a fuckload of fedora and baseless claims and isn't interested in a "fruitful discussion" (this is Holla Forums)

It is precisely because this is Holla Forums that you can count on this being a place to have fruitful discussion. Where else do you think this will be discussed without being shutdown on this website where there are enough people to actually respond in stimulating quantity? Holla Forums frequently deletes these types of discussions even though the religion of the masses is always heavily influential in politics, and a board such as /christ/ or /christian/ would likely censor out of the usual religious fanboyism that doesn't allow discussion of other ideas.

Point out a single claim you have contention with. I can see myself doing a little homework to show you what I refer to if you have patience and aren't too demanding.

faith is for suckers

Not him but you did claim many religious stories are retellings of older stories. Then you seem to imply that that could falsify them, and that if a religious text were falsified the religion itself could be falsified

At best nothing you said has meaning, and by the same merit I could claim that many 'stories' in the quran are factual and have been historically verified

Furthermore your entire OP is implication after implication

Just saw , don't waste your time if you think this is fruitful discussion. I'll just go troll /christian/; them calling me a fedora is more of a 'fruitful discussion' than this.