Java Developers are morons

What do you dislike about it?

Just about everyone uses indentation to help see code blocks, with the braces being for the compiler's sake, not for the reader's sake. At least this way the indentation can't be inconsistent with the real syntactic meaning. Inconsistency between what the programmer claims the code does and what the code actually does is a horrible source of problems.

I like this, because it means functions and methods are interchangeable. I think it's a very minor thing, though.

not true kiddo. All C++ programmers now Java, not all Java programmers know C++

I assume you mean graphics programming

graphics programmers make 100k+ starting and need to know a lot of prior knowledge.

to make a 2d retro game you need to know at least 50 different mathematical truths and/or algorithms

are you talking about a graphics programmer or a game programmer?
game programmers use a graphical tool to drag and drop assets and write short commands to give those assets logic. they use python and lua, not C++
game programmers tend to start out making minimum.
game programmers drag and drop assets and write into those assets game logic. they don't actually need to know anything the following

A lot of game programmers are design students who have the brain to finish 8months of a game development course.
Or they are simply trained on how to use the engine by their work place.

Refer to embedded developers, OS developers, Library developers for examples of C++ programmers.

...

It is. I want someone to explain to me when VMware vCenter requires 10GB of ram to manage 1 host with 50VMs when it is pretty much idle the entire time except collecting some basic performance statistics about my VMs. It is just a shitty web API written in Java with a SQL backend yet somehow manages to require a minimum of 10GB RAM.

If you are going there just for the lectures then you are doing it wrong. Point of college/uni is to make connections with both your professors and your classmates. (I am not native English speaker so classmates could be wrong term to use for people who go to same lectures as you.) After all, if you just want to get knowledge you could get it from books in fraction of the time (and money) that it takes to go trough college/uni.

I did. Got a student job via one of my professors that was nice and paid well but college is still incredibly shit.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But still, Java is just fine if you want to be a pajeet type programmer. In fact, as a young and budding pajeet you have several options to go with that will kick you into shape and prepare you for a life of indentured programming service:

Java: the lingua franca of pajeets. If you're an actual pajeet it's ok (mandatory I guess) to learn. If you're a western person who went to university and was suckered into a loan for learning Java, then you're an honorary pajeet. You're like a pajeet, only a bit worse off since you can't undercut the other pajeets on price. You should apply for asylum in India so you can survive. You will never create anything useful, fun or creative, but you don't care either.

C++: the original meme-language, also known as Dilbert C. This is for people who wants the exciting life of a pajeet, but also wants to eat once in a while, shit on a toilet and sleep beneath a real roof. Go this route if you want the luxury of a tiny cubicle of your own instead of sweating it out in those open landscape slave-pit deals. You'll never be rich or creative, but at least you'll get to push the lesser pajeets around.

Go/Rust/Ruby/JS: modern meme languages. Completely useless, but good for being a hang-around in hipster start-up scenes. Go is for grifting money off kickstarter deals. Rust is basically the "dude weed lmao" of programming languages and is mostly for people who just wants to socialize with other hipsters and not write any code at all. Choose modern meme languages if you're a pajeet at heart, but want to postpone the inevitable and fail a couple of start-ups before you report to the salt mines.

Good luck!

which programming language is good then?

Your premise is retarded. You can use any general-purpose language to write software that people need. Also Lisp has been used in industry quite a lot.

Lets not get carried away here user

Depends on what you want to do. The thing is, the whole discussion about what languages are good and bad is a bit of a misnomer. Good programmers are rare. If you have a real interest in computer science and apply yourself you'll be a good programmer even if you're using a meme language. The problem today is more that there are too few smart people going into the field and poor education than one of languages.

The situation with the pajeets was inevitable now with every retarded corporate whatever having to hire programmers for something. If Java hadn't come along they'd all be pajeeting in C++. So I guess that's my advice, don't focus too much on languages.

Still, C is best of course.

and a trollollollololololol to you too, dumb faggot

Hello pajeet.

If they were forced to work with C and constantly deal with memory management their code would never work. High level languages with garbage collection is what allowed all of these pajeets in to programming.

Yep, it's a downward spiral.

This all comes off like you're jealous of the lucrative jobs that you don't have the skills to apply for. You didn't make any arguments, just rambled off a bunch of Holla Forums stereotypes. Not interesting, not provocative; just circle jerk bullshit.

But there are none
Why do you think all the countries are pushing "everyone should code"? It is to reduce the pay for programmers to that of burger flippers

Everything will get worse and worse

Every time someone has the audacity to point out the obvious that C is shit, they always get instantly accused of either pajeetism or webdevhipsterism. Every time. You could set your watch by the way those false dichotomies get thrown around.

Makes sense though, since the cognitive dissonance from using such an obviously shitty language as C must be pretty high.

I used to work at an IT startup that had 200 people. All they did was hire programmers right out of college rather than experienced people whenever they could for this very reason.

...I thought this board was full of professional programmers but I'm seriously confused by the alternate reality you all keep describing, with pajeet this and C that. It's like I'm in the 90's whenever I come here.

This. If you're going into programming for good money then you're doing something wrong. Become a lawyer or something instead. Only the exceptionally skilled programmers will make good money in the very near future.

That's why you learn to program for the love of programming, or prepare to live as a pajeet serf.

The pajeet is strong with this one. Let me guess, you're one of those rust faggots, right?

...

Nope. Clear your mind out and try again. Maybe go learn something about programming language theory and history before you comment this time.

...

The term "professional programmers" is meaningless, because it lumps in every job, from part-time PHP web-dev to embedded avionics systems with 30 years experience.

I know a guy who professionally programs excel macros.

I'm actually learning programming for the first time. In my uni they make us use processing, because it's apparently really good for making computer generated visuals and it's based on java. I've also tried PD but I find it weird. Anyway w#any pointers for a noob on where to start looking and maybe a good course to get an understanding, at some time I'd like to get fucking around with arduinos and some robotics thanks

God damn universities.

Fucking around is a bit relative. You can do a lot with arduino type systems with just a basic understanding of general programming, and in that regard I guess you're on the right path. But if you want to understand what's going on and be able to make more advanced shit you should take a look at assembly until you understand the basics of how memory and processors work. Then focus on C.

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Can't do robotics in your meme language, pajeet.

Your continued ignorance of other, better systems/embedded languages than C will just make me laugh harder.

I am not user that you responded to, but can you please name some of those non-C good systems/embedded languages?

Nah, but seriously... rewrite it in Rust dude.

I used to work at an IT startup that had 200 people. All they did was hire programmers right out of college rather than experienced people whenever they could for this very reason.>>725047
Assembly is completely unnecessary. I used to fuck around with PIC microcontrollers and the only time I ever bothered with it was when I autistically wanted to make a bootloader (which supported accepting firmware as XMODEM, parse Intel HEX files, and had a basic menu GUI API with console drawing) which would be less than 2kb and had to hand optimize some code to save a few bytes. The only other time i've ever had to use assembly in my life was for cracking programs. All the registers you can access as you would normal C variables.

C

Fuck me, anyways this was supposed to be for

actually on second thought it may have not done this and I may have just used a send file command in a terminal emulator and parsed the HEX files from there

It's true that it's unnecessary to learn asm. I said if he really wanted to know what was going on he should take the lessons about how shit works from it, not actually learn assembly.

I just think it's a good primer because the asm guys usually goes more into detail about the fundamentals than your average C material. Asm itself is for Chinese sweatshops today.

This.

Ada. It's been the best systems language for decades.
sourceforge.net/p/avr-ada/wiki/Home/
adaic.org/learn/materials/

yeah, no

While there's nothing wrong with ada per se, I wouldn't say learning ada is the best advice to someone who wants to "fuck about with robotics." Ada is for very specific interests, someone who wants to work for the government or something. Someone who likes a tiny programming ecosystem for the hardmode.

If someone asks, "I want to get into embedded systems," the only sane answer is C.

C is never a sane answer to anything. Not even compiler code golf, since in that respect it gets beaten by Brainfuck.

Ada is for very general purpose interests, from embedded realtime programming through to high level application programming. There has been at least one informal study done showing that students of the former have vastly more success with Ada than with C. The lengths people go to in their denial of this are amusing.

Why not C++?

Because the C foundation and multiple-ways-to-do-everything design by committee compromises it from the beginning. Also because template metaprogramming is garbage.

Thanks user, good argument indeed

Well, sure... but why? The thing is that 99.9% of development on embedded systems is in C. That means that learning and finding out shit, having a chat with others about your shit, finding a job in the field later, integrating your systems with other peoples systems and so on and so on is pretty much a wholly C affair.

So if you get into the field you'll end up having to learn C anyways.

So why use anything else than C, unless as I said you want to work on very specific government type systems? But if you want to be lonely, unhireable and in general do shit on hardmode I'd rather go with ada like retard-user. Or asm.

kek, next thing you'll be claiming that VHDL doesn't have measurable advantages in hardware design error rates compared to Verilog.

Of course you need more brains to do proper C, that's not what I'm talking about. Try reading what I'm writing. Ada is hardmode because no one uses it.

Why do you think that user?

No, I mean "the average code your codemonkey programs for every shitty little detail in games" programming.

What the fuck does this even mean? Are you out of your mind? It's almost like you are implying these "mathematical facts" don't apply to languages like Java.

Oh yes, indieshits have made games in Java.

The most licensed and best known engine outside of specific companies with specific and highly proprietary solutions is Unreal Engine. Unreal Engine uses C++ for entity scripting.
You will get nowhere with blueprints.

What the fuck did you say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in Computer Science, and I’ve been involved in numerous reimplementations of Quicksorts, and I have over 300 confirmed buffer overflows. I am trained in gorilla heapsorting and I’m the top binary tree implementator in the entire MIT campus. You are nothing to me but just another int16. I will sort you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this UNIX-like operating systems, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, null pointer. As we speak I am searching my secret R-tree across of IP from noobs from the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the logarithmic worst case times, maggot. The storm that sorts out the pathetic little thing you call your data. You’re fucking geohashed, kid. I can search anywhere, anytime, and I can find you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just without libraries. Not only am I extensively trained in programming extensively tested and well known data structures from scratch, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Boost library and I will use it to its full extent to octree your miserable ass off the face of StackOverflow, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” call to sort() was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking fingers. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn null-terminated string. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re gonna get fucking rebalanced, kiddo.

Meanwhile, in the real world, C is one of the most outsourced languages to India.

Source?

Also, no language is pajeet free.

so in other worlds, you are just a butt-hurted code monkey. bravo

*words

There's no one language to rule them all but there is something to be said about what a language tries to get you to do and allows you to get away with.

Java and almost all languages that have garbage collection and are not just used for short scripts end up attracting idiots because idiots can't manage memory.

Python is training wheels for formatting code properly.

Object oriented is shit because it's just a system to force a room full of pajeets to write code that might actually run.

C is not terrible but fourth is arguably better for close to the metal stuff.

Lisp is how computing should be. I think people don't like lisp because alot of lisp/haskell people seem to be more interested in math than fast code. There's still a place in lisp for all that awesome "low level" optimization; the compiler.

Perl is pure bliss and freedom

>Perl is pure bliss and freedom
truth

C is the perfect compromise in abstraction level. Sure, going higher when stuff isn't performance intensive is okay (scripting), but the ratio performance:ease of use is still not as good.
The only really bad thing about C is its age (i.e. the standard library cruft: ASCII standard, non portable types for example) and the lack of a template equivalent.

I did C, MIPS/amd64 asm, Java, Ocaml and Python. Java was the worst language I ever touched. Still use C and sh; will maybe learn Perl5.

Of all the times tryhard retards have said this in Holla Forums, I think I have never seen any other reason other than the ego stroking "because it makes me feel smarter not to use it" or "it makes me feel dumb when I use it".

You could argue vtables are not efficient, that encapsulation of state is just a cheap patch that still leaks the same problem, that multiple inheritance opens a can of worms... but nah, let's just complain that it's either "too hard" or for le Pajeets who use it because it's easy, because who the fuck would ever know in the most technologically illiterate place of Holla Forums, huh?

m8, we're supposed to understand what user meant by "for Pajeets". I think he meant that the concept is used primarly because it allows clean separation of programs in order to distribute it to the soulless ants.

There's a good video serie on YT that's called "why OOP sucks" or something like this, and it articulates pretty well the unease anyone with a IQ higher than that of an oyster feels when using it.

Most of the articles about people shitting on OOP reduce to "I don't like it" or "my idea of OOP comes from an extremely caricaturized version of Java".

You're just choosing to see the worst in people complaining about OOP. Not everyone complaining about something is on an ego trip about it. Also feeling stupid using it is a perfectly valid reason not to. Why the fuck would you want to spend your life doing something that made you question your intelligence ?

The real solution to the problem is functional programming.

You can do functional OOP programming.

People complain about stuff for many reasons. Maybe they want to warn others about it (in which case, they usually give some reasons as to why it should be avoided), maybe they just want to vent about it (it usually looks like "it's dumb and I don't like it"), but others just want to feel smug about it. "It's dumb and everyone who uses it is dumb", sometimes referred to as "my tastes [objectively >] your tastes", is how it usually sounds, and that's all I have read about it here.

Oh no, that's extremely valid. It doesn't even imply anything about your level of intelligence, some people are just better at some things than others. Now, when you manage simultaneously think that you can't understand it, and the reason you can't and others can is because they are retarded and you aren't, you may be genuinely retarded.

it's genuinely easier to understand monads than OOP.
People claim they understand it then they break the rules constantly.

Maybe they break the rules because they already understand the rules.

If that's true then it must be so bad that even OOP experts don't bother using it.

Monads are easy to understand, as long as you read them from Wikipedia. Everyone else either dumbs them down to the point they are irrecognizable (burritos! xD) or mystifies with complicated words and long ass texts that are too abstract for abstractness' sake. I know what monads are and I still can't quite grasp what the fuck is the official Haskell wiki article about monads trying to say.

Forth

Don't asssume nobody else needs asm, just because you never found a use for it. Some game devs still use it where speed is critical. Some parts of OS kernel use it. Maybe even some people who have to be 100% sure the code is doing what they think it is, and not subject to any compiler bugs or other side-effects.

Did you read my post at all? Or the post I replied to?

Ada isn't even hard. My CS101 class in the 90's used it. It's not harder than Pascal or any other language that has the concept of pointers. Actually C is probably harder than both, because it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot until you learn the pitfalls to avoid.

ehh...?
those are not game developers, those are systems people making tools for the game developers.

game developers = drag and drop assets onto a screen and add a few lines of logic
systems developers = optimize software to the point of insanity

Haskell devs don't realize what the word Monad even means and why you can't have more than one. It is the Monad. The singular. You cannot have "Monads". Dumb fucking functional niggers.

are we insecure about the superior Aryans taking your jobs thanks to their mental ability?

"Monad" =/= "The Monad".

I guess Leibniz must have been a dumb nigger too.

A monad is simply a monoid in the category of endofunctors. Anything can be a monad as long as it follows the laws of monad.

Can't help that C is the masterrace!

False. I'm expert at C++, and I don't know Java.
Well, I learned it once ~15 years ago and were so disgusted that I vowed never to touch that pile of shit again and eventually forgot it all.

user, if you grok asm and the CPU architecture it runs on, you can write much faster C++ code. It's the insight it gives you into how your high-level code is compiled and executed that makes it worth it.

user, lots of government projects use Ada. If you want job security, this is probably the best language to learn.

Haskell is.

Ada is considered legacy. One of the main reasons it's still used in government projects is because those projects are slower to adapt to new technologies.
Government projects are commonly stuck with old methodologies and technologies.
It's not that Ada is a bad language, but I don't think it's good for job security. To be honest, for job security you could learn almost anything, but I would choose java. Java is widely used now and will be required for many many years after it's considered legacy. It's the new COBOL guys. After Java's demise, we will have to migrate and replace Java code. Several decades of job security imo.

I just want to earn money to buy food. Programming is inherently depressing, the bugs never end and chances are you're writing software that no-one will ever enjoy using. Java is perfect for this.

Only in the delusions of C programmers.

That's depressing.

Programming itself isn't depressing. It's the corporate mentality, the managers, the deadlines, the customers, the tools you're forced to use. Remove all that and programming can be fun.

I hear ya, buddy. I've written a lot of Java, and there's nothing worse than writing enterprisey code that you know will never be used by you or the other 2 people in your department.

Try to do some hobby programming to, for example, automate common tasks on your computer. Node.js/Electron are good for this, and it might spark the love of creating again.

Experienced IT's and some developers yes.
It depends what you call professional.
Most of good developers didn't learn in college but on the work or at home.

this
It depends on the manager
It depends on the customers and it's also shit because no one listens to you.
They just want it to work, of course they are retarded.
christ this is true, how many times I have worked with a team who had their own coded git like software that wasn't has good has free software.
Well except the manager if he isn't a dickhead (which doesn't happen often) it can be fun.

if you format code anyway (you should), then this is irrelevant because you wouldn't give a fuck as it doesn't annoy you.
and when you have to read some other people's code, it's a nice bonus that the code just can't be unformatted.

so I don't see how this could be a negative point.

Yes, yes it absolutely can be, and then you spend the next hour sorting through the code to try and find where some asshole added an extra space after a tab and broke an 1800 line project before getting fiired because fuck you HR I can't keep this goddamn shop running by myself, you know? Fucking pajeet cianiggershit ruin my job I had a future and now my girlfriend left me for a goddamnn black cock and my fdaughter being raised by a nigger shitskin fucking nigger cianigger fuck fuck fuck