Hedonism

Hedonism says that the pleasure of all beings should be greater than the pain of all the beings.
This is impossible, as the pain of the one used to please the other is greater than the pleasure caused, even if we limit ourselves to the pleasure/pain ratio of humans. As an example, the lion causes and recieves more pain than it recieves or causes pleasure in all it's life.

There are two problems with hedonism as delimited:
Pain will be created when causing pleasure, either directly or indirectly.
Pain can be caused by a being or caused by the enviroment (hunger, hotness, etc.). Pleasure can only be caused by a being, as enviroment tends always to pain.

Thus, pain will be always greater than pleasure while existance continues.

This leaves us with two options if we want the philosophy to be more than an utopistic way of thinking.
The first one promotes non-existance, as in non-existance there cannot either pain nor pleasure, in contrast with existance were the pain will be always greater in quantity than the pleasure.
The other one is to value differently the pleasure and pain of different beings. The pleasure and pain of the ant is less valuable than the pleasure of the anteater.
This still doesn't solve the second problem, as pain in the existance of the beings considered superiors, the ones with the most valuable pleasure, will still be greater than the pleasure they can recieve.

This gives us a reformed hedonism, the Egoistic Hedonism.
It places the pleasure of the self as always infinitely more valuable than the pleasure of all other beings. It will, as it is, greatly diminish the gap between the quantities of pleasure and pain, as the pain of all other beings is not considered. Even then, pain will still be greater, as pain is caused on the individual when doing actions that will cause pleasure.

Thus, Hedonism is impossible to achieve in our current world.

Pain is inherent to existance.
Pleasure is not.

haha op your thread dropped down the catalog

take a shit in my mouth and call me honey

Stop samefagging your pseudointellectual shit, OP.

People can derive pleasure from sitting around and imagining things. So you're wrong. Unless you want to get all buddhist here and say that existence is suffering.

False. People derive pleasure from nice environments all the time. it's the entire point of touring wilderness or other non-settled locations.

Your entire tldr is based on false premises.

They cannot simply sit on a room untli they die without causing pain onto themselves.

So all you're saying is that life is suffering. Gotcha. You didn't invent Buddhism, OP.

No, that's utilitarianism. Hedonism ascribes this only to the individual.

I say that pain/sufering will always be more than pleasure.
Life can have pleasure.

Utilitarianism is about maximizing the utility of the individual

Not if machines do the work.

You expect a bunch of people to believe this pseudo intellectual horseshit when you can't even spell the word "existence" correctly? You misspelled it several times even, so we know it wasn't just a typo. I hope this is just pasta.

That is becouse english is not my native language.

hell yeah bitch smoke that shit

Wrong.
read a book nigger.

“It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer”


― Arthur Schopenhauer

Oh my God, you entry-level plebs. Pain is not quantifiable, nor is pleasure. This was literally my world view when I was 12.

If your life consists of more displeasurable sensations than not, you're doing it wrong, and you don't have to cause displeasure in order to enjoy pleasure for yourself. Every asset you acquire can be acquired from a mutually beneficial transaction, and every being you kill in order to eat can be killed painlessly. Machines can carry out what would be considered displeasurable by most people, food can be synthesized by plants and cells and therefore future technology, and all this can be done without any amount of pain being a necessity.

I'm not saying my hypothetical situation is realistic, I'm saying that pain is not a universal law. It's just another color of experience like all other qualia, like the sight of green or the taste of blueberries or the sensation of an orgasm.

You're talking as if there's this constant quantity of pain and pleasure, and that in order to increase one, you necessarily have to increase the other.

Pain and pleasure are not opposite values on some scale of some force. Pain is ONE experience, and pleasure is a different one entirely. They are not objectively related. They just usually don't co-exist in the brain.

If your life is too pleasurable without a lot of pain, then pleasurable things you were doing start losing meaning. There is a reason why people with no responsibilities become depressed. Do you think NEETs are happy? They'll say they are but then give them a couple years and they'll consider an heroing. Pain grounds your reality and makes you realize to be glad for what you have. Without pain, you forget how hard life can be sometimes. Your things stop meaning anything to you and you are just in a state of constantly seeking thrills, probably with cheap online drama. Experiencing pain is also moralizing. There is certainly a thing like too much pain and too much pleasure and some balance of both is required for happiness.

neet for 6 years here, the only pain I have comes from pain, not a lack of it
Fuck off with your armchair psych

so how's your family? i'm sure your children would be proud to have a bum dad like you

Stopped reading after the first sentence. That's not true at all, it just sounds like it is. Your brain is perfectly capable of replicating a constant state of pure bliss, as well as not ever introducing the feeling of boredom.

You are an idiot. I can have pleasure without causing pain in a million ways

This is a really low quality thread; why did you post that gang sign we all used to draw in elementary school?

Now that people with personality disorders who only want to cause suffering outnumber sane individuals, things are looking grim. Hedonism used to be a real thing, like tribes back in Tuscany around the time of Greece/Rome that had all sorts of child orgies and exquisite physical fitness/art.

There is nothing to discuss about hedonism unless it is in regards to societal downfall, as it is now the case, you fucking degenerate. Hedonists don't care what they cause to others and themselves, especially in the long run.

Also, your thoughts are pretty underdeveloped. Why don't you go back to cuckchan's /lit/ since it is a cesspool for pseudo-intellectuals like you.

/thread