Minimalism thread

How and why does everything GNU end up being so extremely bloated? I know there are multiple better compilers than GCC like tcc, but what does Holla Forums use? Any good replacement for the GNU coreutils and other messes like glibc because it needs to die.

Other urls found in this thread:

sta.li/technologies
morpheus.2f30.org/
suckless.org/rocks
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3bsd-10linux&num=1
openports.se/statistics.php
openports.se/multimedia)?
openports.se/audio/opus-tools
sta.li/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Busybox for coreutils.
Musl/uClibc/dietlibc for glibc.
Clang for gcc, if you're complaining about that too then tcc.
LILO instead of GRUB but I don't recommend this.
You have to use gcc to compile the Linux kernel but you can use nonGNU software for everything else on userspace.

It's soon going to be possible to use clang to compile the linux kernel, clang is working on it.

LLVM is as much shit as GCC.

Because Unix was a system of lightweight, composable utilities that could be combined to tackle complex tasks, but GNU's Not Unix. GNU is the fever dream of a cruel, pedophilic, toejam eating autist who had a mental breakdown during a talk and admitted that he had had a "failure" (GNU, HURD).

Try living with the consequences of `emerge heirloom-{sh,tools,devtools}` for a week and you'll run back here crying.

I agree glibc can fuck off and die, though

This. GNU's bloat gave us a lot of good things (copied by BSDs). Like the NULL separator for most coreutils or xargs' -d.

Pretty much this. I like to use mksh as my shell. It's light, fast, and predictable, with just the right amount of features. Other options to replace coreutils/binutils are a combination of sbase/ubase/hbase, or heirloom tools. I use the heirloom tools on my machine, mostly because Gentoo makes it easy to install. As of yet, there is not a truly drop-in replacement for coreutils, because a lot of things depend on GNU extensions. You'll probably need to specify a GNU $PATH for some programs. I set up aliases in my .mkshrc to do this automatically.

Below are some other things that might give OP some ideas.

sta.li/technologies
morpheus.2f30.org/
suckless.org/rocks


Pic related. Don't run the other two packages, though.

GNU have standard arguments that appear in their source too. Also they try to give better performance, so they can't stop with a oneliner as OpenBSD usually do.
Glibc will never die btw.

LILO is no longer under active development. You can replace GRUB with SYSLINUX though I'm not sure what good that would do if getting rid of bloat was your goal.

Isn't tcc deprecated?

Replace Bash with Ash
Replace Coreutils with Busybox
Replace glibc with Bionic
Replace X11 with SurfaceFlinger
Replace Gnome with AOSP Launcher

Pat from slackware maintains LILO for slackware and if problems arose he would send it back upstream

You are free to redo the code of any Gpl software.

Your mother is deprecated.

You can't force people to use your replacement though.
Even if you make something better, the inferior alternative that's been used for years or decades is still going to be used and other software is going to account for it and not your project, so you'll have to deal with it like it or not

If something is really good, people will change to it. I've seen it happen with a lot of things (mupdf, for a recent example).

Which is why BSD dominates the computing world. Oh wait.

If you want to "dominate" then you have to market for plebs.
But if you just want to survive, you only have to cater to a niche that's big enough for self-sustainment. The niche can be as simple as "people who are fed up of X and want a working alternative".

But that isn't the point? If YOU find something bloated fix it for YOURSELF

They've been saying that for years and it still hasn't completed?

GNU's design philosophy is to include features if people find it useful. It's that simple. GNU's reason to exist is simply to exist: GNU was started so that there would be a free OS replacement to the proprietary Unix OS.

BSD isn't good actually.
Either its slow/bare and not harmful (NetBSD, OpenBSD) or it's not that slow/featureless and bloated (FreeBSD). The others are fringe without a real dev mass.

What is so slow/bare about OpenBSD?

Doesn't even come with a browser and any of the packages available in the pkgs are far outdated.

Then there is no reason for GNU to exist anymore, BSD made an even more permissive license than GPL in the early 90s
No such thing.

ftp client is a basic web browser (enough to download files via http/https). They had Lynx in base, but kicked it out because it doesn't meet their code standards. It's probably better that way, so nobody gets a false sense of security.
I still use Lynx though (and Links), since their attack surface is much smaller than Firefox, Chrome, and similar bloated crapware. But they're not part of base system for a reason: the base is held to a much higher quality standard.
Anyway, I don't care about Web 2.0, HTML5, and all that stupid shit. It's nice to have a system that doesn't cater to social media and games-addicted plebs.

This is really false.
Unless there's something glaringly bad about the current software, people won't change it. People are afraid of change in general, and if the software mostly works OK, then people won't replace it. This is why many current standards in network, filesystems, etc aren't technically the best. They dominate because they're already established, and people don't see enough reason to change them because they mostly work. That's why if you make a replacement that's more efficient and even fixes some problems, but the current software works most of the time, then very few will switch.


And then fix the next update when you need that new feature. And the next. And then fix they way it interacts with other applications because your changes messed with that too. With no help because you're doing this only for yourself. Repeat until you die.
It's a stupid point, dude.

>phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3bsd-10linux&num=1
Latest Moronix bench (yeah, I know. Find me better if you can).
>openports.se/statistics.php
The total number of packages: 7811
Comparing to what I use (Gentoo): found 19619 matches (that's not counting layman overlays)

Anyway, how can you deny the speed issues? I've used NetBSD a little (which is in the same league) and doing some x264 was crazy slow, for example. Also where are the fucking opustools (openports.se/multimedia)?

Nothing, really. In the ftp/ports there are probably all the packages you'll ever need.

Write your own replacements in C or Assembly if there aren't any and define and fix your scope before you start.

GCC is the only worthwile C compiler.

Copyleft exists because permissive free software doesn't always lead to users having freedom. It is completely intentional to prevent people from forking copyleft software into proprietary software.

Not an answer

Took me about three seconds to find opus-tools using the search box.

openports.se/audio/opus-tools

You can use cute shell function, no need for nasty web of cia niggers.

sta.li/ my man

bloated relative to what?
GNU is bloated relative to {Open,Net}BSD (not so much for FreeBSD) or Plan9, but very lean relative to all recent mainstream software development.

different set of values and culture.
Stallman was alien to the Unix culture, he came from the Lisp/MIT hacker culture.

GNU prioritized featurefulness, portability and performance from the onset, so that free software could be widely adopted. Stallman also launched GNU as a consequence of ITS sinking with the hardware architectures it depended upon.

Long story short: features, portable implementations and optimal solutions are favored, sometimes at the expense of minimalism and maintainability. Users are first, developers second.

I hate you guys so much. Now even GNU is bad because it's not hispter enough for your e-peen.

Just fuck you and use BSD, Haiku, PhantomOS, WebOS, ToaruOS, ReactOS, OSX, Windows, etc.

There are literally hundreds of operating systems without GNU, yet you want to take the GNU operating system... And remove GNU. Fuck you.

I miss the textpunk threads. #textpunk on rizon is dead, too. Its just me and one other guy with nothing new to say to each other.

Is #textpunk what became of the the BBS that used to be up? The one "Zapod" had?

If you haul stuff you need a truck or a van.
You say, gosh it's so bulky when I'm not hauling stuff, I'll trade in for a motorcycle.
Oh no, I need to haul stuff, better hitch a wagon to the motorcycle.
HOW CAN I ESCAPE THIS BLOAT?

Well, you could admit you regularly haul stuff and own a van and a motorcycle, for when you don't want to drive the van. If you can only afford one, get the van. Duh. Jesus Christ.

It's very common in /g/tech/ culture to use buzzwords that don't have any meaning. Not to mention the amount of bikeshedding that LARPers do.

I use a distro with busybox and for fuckwhatever reason they decided even that was too bloated and in the version they include there is no chattr and other utilities. Fuck that pisses me off.

No, the IRC is separate, and actually had users for quite awhile. Only a few people ever used Zapod's BBS, which is too bad, shit was comfy as FUCK.

I think a lot of people didn't use the BBS because it didn't work very well over telnet. You had to use an old school terminal emulator to get it to look and work 100%

Was it ever. I semi wish someone would throw one up again for a bit and just see where it goes.

Faggot. These threads demonstrated that nobody cared about minimalism, just "muh matrix hacker TUI". These people systemd or mpd and were proud
of it.