I KNOW

The final beach scene in End of Evangelion is a depiction of Hegel's Master-Slave Dialectic. Does this make NGE vaguely leftist? What is its relationship with Marx? Is Instrumentality capitalism (as Marx wrote capitalism was occasionally necessary for the advancement of humanity, although shitty and to be quickly abandoned) or communism?

You mean Shinji being a whiny autist that faps in inappropriate situations.

this is why we don't discuss eva on image boards. it necessitates faggots arguing with each other

youtube.com/watch?v=SUamHEvVQy0

what i was trying to say, well i did watch it, but my brain stopped trying to catch up with all the bullshit going on

i dont remember where that white faggot even came from. it was just extremely gay. everyone started crying like a bitch over their drama bullshit.
the characters were just so insufferable whiney. nothing made sense anymore.
they just tried obscure shit and overdid their pretentious psychology drama faggotry, it ruined the whole thing for me.

It's okay. It's not for everyone. I kind of get the feeling being mentally ill or having going through some really fucked up shit is a prerequisite for liking Evangelion because I have no idea how else anyone could really relate and enjoy it.

And even then, a lot of people with that background are still just not gonna fuckin like it. No worries. And yes, Kaworu comes the fuck out of no where. I didn't understand anything the first time I watched it, and was in awe of how confused I was. It was an emotional rollercoaster. That was the only part of the story I understood. Looking back on it and analyzing and making sense of it has been a blast, though, but obviously, again, not everyone's gonna feel that way.

Instrumentality is the end of Hegelian dialectic, when humanity discovers its absolute spirit and becomes singular

If you didn't get the meaning of evangelion on the first watch you're retarded. Only plebs think its complicated.

Such a patrician like yourself should be able to explain it in a single sentence.

mechs r cool

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Evangelion is actually a very conservative anime.

It's about accepting the shitty reality, who you are and abandon the utopian idea.

It's almost stoicism.

however they clearly live in some kind of socialist command economy.

Not really since corporations still exist.

Wat?
As i remember TV series, humanity in the end becomes one single consciousness, where there's no more *self*
Destruction of individual selfes shown in the form of torture (i mean spotlight and chair and mental breakdown), but it's just metaphore.
If anything, eva is about alienation. Lol, discrete beings in eva world even have whatever-fields that separate their psyche from each other.
Eva reactionary in a sense, that alienation cause lies in some bullshit fields, and not in relations of production.

Eva a shit.

Your taste is shit.

Instrumentality is supposed to be the utopia, where everyone understands and loves each other since they become a hivemind.

Shinji rejects all that and accepts the status quo, being that people hurts each other by living separately, but that experience is still worth it more than being a hivemind.

That AT field is the human's ego, when the human's ego breaks, there's no more human being and just a massive consciousness.
Eva actually celebrates alienation because it's what forms what we know as a person. We are hurt by alienation, but that shows we are alive.

But don't mistake this for a celebration of individualism, as it's shown in the last episode of EVA, extreme individualism is just like a hivemind since there's only one entity.

You are not defined by your own image, you are not defined by how society sees you, you are defined by your consciousness seeing the your image reflected from the eyes of society.

For example, you wear a cool T-shirt, you think it's cool by yourself, but society think it's not, so you adjust by changing your T-shirt to something that's half and half thus acknowledging both the opinion of yourself and society, that is your ultimately image.

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Bernie's gotta split from the Democratic party now, or else it'll swallow him whole, neutralize his support base, and devour the movement, just like the hundreds of movements before this that were content to come from/be in the Democratic party.

You must be talking about the end of evangelion, which i remember not that well.
I don't even understand why Shinji's decision matters at all. What's so special about him?

Another metaphore then, whatever.

In another words, trivial fear of death. If there's no ego, i'm as well might be dead.

In this case, eva is individualist as fuck. And Shinji is a masochistic retard. Muh fucking precious ego, lol.

This.

Eva demonstrates how we are defined by our material limitations and our relation to others rather than an intrinsic essence.

Shinji rejects both the loss of individuality seen in instrumentality leading to tang, and the false, naive individualism of existing alone.
Instead he embraces the genuine and authentic individuality of co-existence achieved by passing through the master-slave dialectic. Also the fraternity and love of all people and all that.

Shinji also rejects instrumentality in the TV series.
His decision allows people the chance of Instrumentality by destroying all AT fields.
Uh, yeah, because without your ego, you might as well be dead.
I already explain why Eva does not celebrate individualism here>>719737

It *is* individualism. By that logic you can call collectivism as another expression of individualism, but not the other way around.

That's just because the collective starts from the individual.

But in the end, extreme individualism and collectivism just reduce yourself to one being who thinks and acts the same.

And that's why Eva is a consersative show, and actually anti-Left, because it's about accepting the harsh reality, and not escaping from it with promise of utopia.

It's not class war, but class collaboration.

You are getting fucked over, but that experience is worth it.

m8 the left isn't about escaping to utopia, this seems like b8 tbh.

Where the fuck is there class collaborationism in Eva?

Its not that the experience is 'worth' it. The question of worth isn't even addressed.
Rather experience is the only thing the is.

Fleeing experience and reality because it isn't nice and escaping with the promise of utopia sounds like the opiate of the people to me, not class struggle and materialism.

Just switch class and ego and you got it.

Marxism is about class struggle where they have to destroy all classes for a better future.

Instrumentality is about the ego struggle where they destroy all egos for a better future.

Class collaborationism is about classes still existing, but helping each other but also hurting each other by merely existing.

This is what Shinji does, he accepts that egos hurt each other by their mere existence, but this existence is worth living.

As i remember it, humanity becomes one.
They all standing in a bright light and smile or whatever. All is happy, all is in love with each other. Cringeworthy.
But i always thougt it was just another metaphore, that there's no more individuals and so there's no more love, hate and such.

If he destroys all fields, how can there be ego?

Point is, there's greater things than ego.
Hell, i am working in a factory, and every time i see all this machinery and humans working as one, it strikes me how insignificant i am. Ones ego is not alpha and omega of the universe.

I think you might need to rewatch the show because I don't think you understand shit.

The congratulation speech is about Shinji growing up as a person and accepting the flawed reality and learns to stop the self-hate, not about him accepting the Instrumentality.
Exactly, that's why he doesn't go with it, he rejects Instrumentality.
Well, Shinji disagrees.
Everyone forming into a single mass is disturbing and uncomfortable to him.

You stop realize/think for yourself when you lose your ego. The universe can be as grand and beautiful as you might think, but it doesn't matter one bit if you cannot think at all.

Not him. I got that this was one of the themes, but I didn't think it was the main one. Was everything just smokescreen?

Kaoru a fag

That's a very simplification of Eva's theme. The stop whining part is also stupid, because Eva does not want Shinji to not admit that he has problems.

But I can simplify it even an simpler phrase: don't fear rejection, it hurts, but it helps you into a better person.

That's a more eloquent way to say it.

Eva is also not materialistic, since it believes in spooky things like souls.

Yeah, but why?

By this line of thought you could argue that any story where people work together is anti-left because its class collaborationism.

Eva doesn't provide an answer to class struggle, rather it demonstrates the nature of the individual, which cannot exist without being observed by another. One simply cannot draw a comparison between ego and classes.

Furthermore Shinji doesn't accept that egos hurt eachother (he initially initiated instrumentality thinking this was the case), he rejects instrumentality precisely due to realising that they do not have to.

Just as class struggle is necessary in order to achieve classlessness, the transpiration of the Hegelian master-slave dialectic Shinji and Asuka engage in upon both rejecting instrumentality shows us that indeed the self can exist together without hurting one another.

Never said it was. Eva is far more Hegelian than it is marxist and by that virtue is entrenched in idealism.

Stay mad

I think you guys are overthinking this. It just a bunch of religious imagery and pop psych made by a depressed anime man.

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I will clear up the comparisons:
- both classes and egos can only exist by being observed by each other
- both classes and egos exist by hurting each other but also helping each other

I can actually prove that Shinji does accept that egos existing inherently hurt each other in End of Evangelion and the end of TV series, exactly by his rejection speech.

When you are rejected by the one who you love, your ego is hurt, but that experience itself is worth it because it was real.
Actually, he rejects Instrumentality because he realizes that experience of being hurt is actually valuable and necessary in human psyche development.

On the contrary, the first thing Shinji does after existing Instrumentality IS hurting Asuka, which in turn proves that when egos exist, they hurt each other. But this pain, this hurt existing is what gives us experiences and grows up.

It also provides an answer to class struggle, by providing the extreme end of any struggle, the entity eliminates the other, thus it also dies because it lacks an observant.

So instead of struggling, it is better to accept reality that classes exist, and exist within that framework.

Will do, because i don't remember any congratulation speech.

Well whatever, but why does he alone have to decide? What about other people egos?

I will die anyway, and if i will have a chance to become part of something greater than i am now, i will take it.
It's one of the reasons people join the army. To be a part of grand war machine.

twitter.com/Bidenshairplugs/status/740238999458041856

Is he right, Holla Forums?

You are ignoring the Hegelian element to Shinji hurting Asuka that is precisely class struggle between egos that is resolved. And this pain/struggle can make us develop/advance society.

Shinji rejects instrumentality not to return to accepting the pain of egos betraying eachother/class collaboration, rather he rejects it so as to fulfill the dialectic so that they can co-exist without hurting eachother. Just as classlessness is achieved by a struggle between classes so does there have to be the pain of egos hurting one another so that this is resolved.

Instrumentality more closely resembles a utopian desire to return to primitive communism, Shinji's rejection of this drives him to engage fully in the class struggle/master-slave dialectic which will lead to genuine communism.

Well, congrats.
If you watch the show, you would know he's propped up by his mom's soul which resides in a godly vessel.
You died, but you existed as one being, "you" ceased to exist when you join the mass.
People joined the army for a multiple reasons, some just to prove themselves that they are better than their peers.

In a sense, yes. Sanders lost because most of the DNC are people that are too concerned with idpol.

No.

The real issue is that he didn't have enough support from boomers, particularly LIV boomers in the south.

Not really. The racial divide between the two major parties is purposeful. After all, Clinton is a white woman and overwhelmingly popular with blacks.

The real issue is that Clinton is the liberal Reagan: she's pretending to be in the best interest of a racial group.

SO WITH SADNESS, IN MY HEART
FEEL THERE'S NOTHING I COULD DO
BUT END IT ALL, AND LEAVE FOREVER.

The issue is that he's a fucking socialist that was threatening the neoliberal establishment with a massive movement.

I can't believe people were deluded enough to actually think anyone but Hillary was going to win the nomination (and the presidency itself).

The fuck are you talking about?

I just prove to you that Shinji rejects a reality where egos cannot hurt each other (instrumentality) to a reality where they exist and hurt each other.

What is this bullshit about co-existing without hurting each other when hurting each other is exactly what they did after the "struggle" is resolved.

American culture has reached a bizarre low point where direct action in politics is unthinkable in our own borders, but blowing up a foreign nation for their wealth is just Thursday.

Read Hegel.

Watch the fucking show.

You think classlessness/egolessness is what Shinji wishes for.

You are wrong.

pls read Hegel

Stop misunderstanding the fucking show.

Please watch Evangelion.

I can say the same to you.

You, on the other hand, seems to be misunderstanding the show when you think Shinji thinks "egos can exist without hurting each other" when he thinks the fucking opposite.

I have. If you'd watched it you'd know he doesn't outright reject either, but creates one of choice. Where egos can choose whether or not to come into existence and leave the collective.

Rewatch End of Evangelion.
Pay attention to the penultimate scene with Rei and Kaworu.
Read Hegel.

He let the other choose, but he himself outright rejects it.

It's that exactly scene where I'm talking about.
Lemme quote it:

So in short, Shinji fucking admits he will be eventually be hurt/betrayed by other egos, and yet he still wants them, because those feelings he had were real.

You need to rewatch EoE if you think "egos can co-exist without hurting each other", even Shinji admits that's a fucking dream.

*Me* is a vague concept. I am now not what i was a moment ago. That human that was me five years ago is a stranger to me now.
I cease to exist every time i go to sleep. This feel of self is too unreliable so that i can hold on to it.

And anyway, existential sentiments aside, history shows examples of people who abandon their egos for some abstract ideas.

The you that exist now is a collection of the past you.

Nonetheless he holds the belief that its worth going back with the hope that people will one day understand each other.
Also you are still managing to ignore the master-slave dialectic of the final scene.
Read Hegel.

He wants to go back and see other egos i.e. the old society, because the old society, while harsh, makes him feel real.

Yeah, the scene where the ego struggle is still going on means the "ego struggle" is resolved.

Fuck you and watch the show again and stop wasting time misunderstand book.

pls read Hegel.

My memory is fading with time and so my past me is fading as well. For example, the 10 y/o me is dead by now, if not for a few episodic moments that i still remember.

Please watch the show.

Shinji did not ascend or figured out any super fusion dialectic, his big fucking idea is that he LIKES the old society better, where egos/classes fucking exist.

You just forget it, it definitely didn't cease to exist.

kys fam

At this point, you are basically ignoring reality, watch the show actually shows.

The world did not end up in peace, the struggle is not resolved, Shinji still wants to hurt Asuka because her existence/ego makes him feel uncomfortable.

But after all, this means I need to read Hegel.

seriously kys

Also:
kek

I was being glib obviously, but the basic meaning is that life, even with all the pain we cause one another, is still worth living alongside others. As opposed to running away from our problems metaphorically by shutting ourselves off from others or by literally running away into a utopian hivemnd.

Uh, please tell how I am misinterpreting the ending, and Shinji choking Asuka is him happily accepting her.

The utopia hivemind is the communism metaphor.

The classless society is the exact same as the egoless society.

That is my point.

READ HEGEL FAGGOT

I think you should watch End of Evangelion instead.

In short, the bourgeois might hurt us, but ultimately they define us as much as we define them, so while we are being exploited by them, it's still better to have them in the end, rather than a classless society.

But of course, muh class struggle/ego struggle.

It's time to end this

kek

Neon Socialist Slick Entryist

The machines and voter rolls were rigged from the start. but go ahead and blame colored people, Holla Forumssmoker.

Zankoku na bourgeois no you ni, sosharisu yo entryist ni nare

KEK.

As a Holla Forumsack who finds most Anime degenerate garbage, you are a pleb.

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Delete this

just read this thread
sums up what i said from the beginning:
pretentious nonsense stupid shit and drama

Last time I checked AVFM was pretty politically neutral.

Regardless of that organization's actual intentions, because it opposes mainstream liberal feminism it inevitably attracts pseudo-intellectual rightists.