Why exactly do Marxists hate religion? Most of the world is religious...

Why exactly do Marxists hate religion? Most of the world is religious, so if we want to have a global socialist revolution shouldn't we work with religion instead of against it?

It is the spookiest of all spooks and reactionary as fuck.

Marxism is orthogonal to religion, except in cases where religion is harnessed by the bourgeoisie as a means to oppose worker ownership.

Nope. You can be religious and be a Marxist.

Religion historically has upholded and justified the current social order. This is even truer in the case of catholicism with priests basically commanding people in their voting booth.

Ffs, monarchs have legitimized themeselves on "divine right" since ever.

Religion implies hierarchy and objective morality.

Degenerates become physically ill when exposed to either.

Because, organized relegion is no longer about god.
It's a corporation itself. With capitalist interests and so on.

You wanna believe in a god? SURE!
You wanna have a church? GO AHEAD!

You wanna be payed for being a priest? Eeer.. no?

You wanna be exempted from taxation and have huge amounts of land property? FUCK OFF!

AKA sterile and abstract liberal/utilitarian platitudes? No thanks!

This is true and this tendency will probably manifest itself during a revolution. The religious order it marinated with the socioeconomic status quo. The powers of the clergy are mixed with the capitalist structure. The Catholic Church in particular has a history of providing the ideo-religious defense of historical fascists (Franco, etc.) and the monarchy. It has been used to maintain the order. Religion is okay as long as it's isolated from these power structures. The religious hierarchy ought to be viewed suspiciously. In a post-revolutionary socialist society, religion will probably adapt to the material social conditions and hopefully be harmless as it provides its followers with a sense of meaning. It should be dehierarchized in order to prevent the exploitation of followers and the material enriching of the leaders. I say this as a religious person. I think Christianity went to shit when it mixed with the Roman power. From a radical pacifist religion of the persecuted to a religion of the sword-wielding persecutors. How tragic.

Fuck off and get pegged by your lords.

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Workers need a day off.


The previous generations have important contributions both good and bad that we should learn from.


Murder is wrong.


I don't feel like pulling up all the shit on how cheating and multiple sexual partners leads to less happiness, more divorces, and ultimately more kids with mental problems, but you should get this.


Taxation is theft

Stealing is wrong.


Lying is wrong and you shouldn't be a conniving bitch.


Greedy greedy never gets.

The rest are just religious rules for followers of the faith.

Religious morality, and objective morality in general, is pretty clear-cut and objective in 99.99% of scenarios, and the cases where it's not is usually because both sides are immoral and the argument is over which is less moral. Whether you originate it from bodily autonomy, divine inspiration, or natural rights is irrelevant.

Statement: Degenerates become physically ill when exposed to either.

Response by the nihilist:


Case and point.

Not a nihilist. Not even bearing the nihilist flag. You're an idiot. Go get fucked by your hierarchy.

but muh liberation theology

Exactly what is your logic here?

Is this one of those "the common worker is X, therefore socialists must be X" things?

I think he means that most proles are religious and would even fight a war to keep their religion (see Mexico). If us socialists are hostile to religion and start a persecution the proles will turn against us and liberal democracies will demonize us. We'd be crushed. I would agree with this.

This is something that varies region to region. Most first world nations are starting to not give a fuck about religion, so embracing it would be a dumb move.
In third world shitholes with high religiosity, it's probably a good idea.

If anything, religion should be dealt with after the revolution. IIRC, the majority of Bolsheviks in the vanguard were Jewish.

Though as says, we should embrace it where we can. For instance, liberation theology is popular in latin america, so it wouldn't be too hard to gain popular support off that.

Only as a short term goal. We as socialists should also want to despook people in the long term, otherwise we risk letting reactionaries hold onto political power by using religion.
One of the reasons why islamic fundamentalism is so big in the middle east today is because there wasn't a strong, secular, socialist alternative to imperialism present in the middle east. The closest we got was Nasserism but that was more about arab nationalism than anti-capitalism

Religion would need to be reformed yo, so that it won't turn into a power of its own in the absence of the state and private sector. It would be dehierarchized and allowed to naturally evolve into the socialist society.

True, but I'm just talking pragmatism here

This concise description is exactly the reason.

People who bend to the will of their own desires will make justification for their abhorrent and abnormal behavior, whilst spreading disease and filth in the name of "progress".

What diseases? Most here just want workers to run their own lives. Your claim sounds like something a feudal lord would have said to the capitalist.

...

You can get diseases form heterosexual sex as well. Best not to have sex at all then.

Whoa there. Pretty judgmental for you to automatically assume I said anything about homosexuals.

Check your muh privilege.

But also, thank you for proving my point.

Oh sorry. Nothing else came up to mind? Could you explain then?

Also, fuck off with your muh privilege shit.

Certainly.

As a self-aware human, you have the ability to decide for yourself how you want to live your life. But many individuals do not live with the idea that their behavior affects others. They may even be oblivious to that fact. This is not relegated to the cliched argument that "my lifestyle shouldn't affect you" when inherently dangerous behaviors affect the health and safety of others.

This is why there are laws against drunk driving. An alcoholic may love alcohol. He may dream about it. He may even believe it gets him though the day. It may even consume him to the point where he really believes that his identity is tied up in his preference to over-indulge in drinking. In fact, he may even have a predilection toward alcoholism due to his paternal environment or genetic predisposition. He may develop cirrhosis of the liver and get sick and eventually die.

However, at the end of the day, he is not his alcoholism. Addiction, no matter how difficult, no matter how all-consuming, can be overcome by regulating self-control.

Self-destructive behavior is not a state of being. Self-destructive behavior arises out of a state of being. One can choose how his or her life will be, but no matter what, your decision will invariably always affect someone else.

The decent human thing to do is make sure is that your behavior is beneficial and upbuilding to the advancement of your community.

You just went from tolerable to "tripfag".

Because Marxism is also a religion. Its premises are unfalsifiable and require faith in its precepts and prophets

No successful religion has ever survived by abiding competition.

I wasn't calling all Marxist degenerates, bro.

I was just pointing out that the degenerate Marxists tend to be the most opposed to religion and typically have the loudest voice.

He's referring to… I'm not sure the lefty term would be, but we tend to call them "liberationists" among libertarians.


Only if you and/or your wife slept/sleeps around inb4 the .001% of cases where this isn't true.

FUCK!
I knew it! I knew this place wasn't really lefty!

*kneels deeply*

pls

...

But we don't.

Organized religion always serves the interest of the ruling class and turns the oppressed into cucks that fight for spooky nonsense like "god, king, and country."