All Socialist countries have ended in either of these sceneries:

Typical socialist. Always resorting to violence while claiming victimhood.

nice reading comprehension retard. shoot yourself

socialist 'violence' being trying to not starve or not to be a slave…

Venezuela is far worse than the great depression. And before yo u say FDR fixed us, no. WW2 fixed us.

Oh look it's this thread again

In some aspects, yes.

cultural revolution China is the highlight of communism. They accomplished many things. The dominant narrative written by butthurt children of communist party members who had to go to the countryside and live like everyone else. These people honestly believe living like 80 percent of China was a crime against humanity. Their narrative says education was destroyed, when the truth is that there were more middle and high schools built and scientist achieved a treatment for malaria and were able to synthesize insulin. Also, there were no famines, there was rural industry and agriculture developing together, expanded healthcare, a good social safety net, democracy where the people could replace and criticize leaders, this ended corruption.

look at rural china now chinasmack.com/2014/stories/90-of-chinese-peasants-live-as-they-did-40-years-ago.html

socialist when they do something good.

Not socialist when they do something bad.

...

Atlas Shigged

All attempts of peripheral and semi-peripheral countries of capitalist world system to alleviate their subservient socie-economic position resulted in their integration in the system in subservient position (China, Russia) or their isolation (DPRK, Cuba), not to mention all the CIA involvement.
All attempts of socialist, communist and labour movements in the core countries resulted in lowering the workweek, improving working conditions, raising standards of living, universal suffrage, universal education, housing and infrastructure projects, removing grotesque levels of racism and sexism and so on.

Catalonia, The Free Territory, Chiapas, Rojava, etc.

jacobinmag.com/2012/12/the-red-and-the-black/

Stupid meme

The capitalist efficiency argument should be ignored always. The world is not a contest to reach maximum efficiency, efficiency should not be a goal unto itself. The most efficient system is slave-based economy where people born with disabilities or become handicapped are immediately killed.

Meanwhile Bolivia is faring well.
But we have to be quiet about it, or it will destroy the narrative you are trying to build.

Uh… you realize that response is bad right? Even tribal leaders can sink the attempt making it a paper boat.

Or more accurately a house of cards.

It should've said:

...

It was just more than Tribal Leaders, like said France had a huge hand to play in toppling Sankara

What's wrong with EZLN?

Ecuador and Uruguay have a socialist government and both are pretty nice

nope
there is economic sabotage but fact of the matter is the poorest of the people are way better off in every aspect than before and their standard of living is rising continuously.
back to kekalonia, faggot :-)
the most important parts of economy are still nationalized. despite maoism being fucking retarded with having the bourgeoise even represented within the communist party and on the state flag even for ridiculous historical reasons does its harm to it but it's still a socialist country on the rise.

I don't know…
I wonder if they'd collapse economically if they weren't sabotaged by the US…

Citation needed.

Surely you are not serious.

You just proved his point.

Why do dumb faggots always blame the U.S. for Chavez's own ineptitude? What does the U.S. have to do with his refusal to diversify the economy and him prioritizing giving free shit to people instead of building an actual economy?

yes that is what socialism is all about, government control :^)

standard of living isn't rising anywhere in venezuela, man

Reminder for OP

tankie-tier

No fuck off socdem.

Cardstock then? As long as nobody pisses on it. This means the US is a baaaaaad place for a communist take over as it is designed for any serious group of people to revolt against government.

And if the revolution came to the United States, we would be the Western power. You know there's a big difference with an advanced Western nation fucking with a small west African backwater and trying to fuck with the biggest Western power, right?

The US proper isn't doing shit for many of those examples given. The notable ones we know of us mostly the CIA agency. Venezuela is faltering and Obama isn't that ideologically different than Bernie.

Communism isn't really applicable with large groups much like direct democracy.

twitter.com/oscarmipasme/status/739559865857769472
People with money still exist in Venezuela.
(son of a bitch is rubbing it in everyone's faces, I haven't eaten something like that in ages)

And know that im keeping an open mind here. I actually came to get some info on Venezuelas situation.

Can you all explain how to fix the food lines? Why don't leftists in the US go and help? If an attempt at legit reform of my economics was happening, I'd go and help and damn the violence

Also forgot to mention as I'm on mobile, but the American revolution was also under constant real threat by the world super power at the time and there were spys and economic attacks then too. Money was shit too and "not worth a continental dollar" were popular sayings to mean worthless. Equity was still found post revolution

Also came to you all to get your perspective of Venezuela because the mainstream media is shit. And with information that is posted, I see also a lot of excuses heavily peppered. Like someone trying to reassure others to keep them believing in a lie. (Like a child asking now specifics of Christianity claims and a parents modifying the stories with current ideas.)

Other revolutions failed not because of economic systems, but because of debt incurred. Meaning if not for a enormous debt payments the economy would function fine under the fledgling government.

I think you all should know, we are watching Venezuela. If it fails, it will be held up as an example of the failure of the ideology. I recommend if you believe it can be done, go to Venezuela and show us it can work.

Obama and the democrats who own the US press can't be used as an excuse like some sort of Regan conservative.

How?

kek

Venezuela is only ideologically socialist, not structurally socialist.

In addition, the failure in Venezuela is due to an over-reliance on oil exports after the price of oil crashed. I don't see you fucks talking about the troubles in Saudi Arabia, Russia or North Dakota as being a "failure of capitalism".

Why not? They're still anti-worker conservatives, just not as insanely right-wing as the opposing party.

Hospitals have higher mortality rates than suburbs. When will Medics finally learn that Medicine will never work unless we achieve post-mortality?

Go there and help out.

Then go help make it structurally socialist. Provide a working template that will last and weather some other nation poo pooing it like any modern nation will have to deal with in any day and age.

- Because market corrections address that malinvestments in a single industry such as an over dependence on oil instead of agriculture or whatever industry would benefit those nations/state named. That's how markets function. Its called supply and demand.

That's why Texas can deal with an oil collapse instead of North Dakota.

Go make Venezuela structurally diverse and socialist and provide a template. The people need your help and if it fails, your ideas get dragged down with it. Because you did nothing even if you knew your ideas could work.

You are even calling Obama conservative. What's next? Water isn't wet enough?

I'm not falling for your "take personal responsibility for massive, multinational economic forces" meme. The actions of one dipshit isn't going to do anything.
Yeah, really stopped Saudi Arabia from becoming overly dependent on oil. Wait…
Because most of the oil in Texas was pumped out years ago.

Because he is a conservative. In liberal democracies, liberals are the conservatives. In Burgerland, liberal ideology goes all but unchallenged and "politics" is just a battle between different liberal tendencies.

Not alone dude. Clearly i'm saying an organization of you all (better because you show who's in charge that you are all leftists like them) should get your asses there collectively and work out the problems.

You cant with any sanity propose the US would fare better and not be an even more monstrous disaster than Venezuela. We don't just have rich people here, if you have 10,000 bucks to blow you can buy a surplus duce and a half, tank, or halftrack, and are well equipped and armed than most nations military in yurape. Rich people have PMCs and other assets at their disposal and the general will of the people.

If the US even tried to do something proposed by leftypol and a revolution happened, it is more likely there will be a real hunt and wholesale slaughter of any leftists who are, generally speaking, unarmed, mostly quicky irrate, and not prepped like bubba. You are an "extremist" if you think obama and his admin are conservatives.

And when demand drops the market will respond just like it always does if you let people do business to make money without fucking over other people. Saudi has plenty of sun, make solar farms. It has mecca which is the disney world for muslims.

And no Texas has always had a farmers, ranchers and other industry. Or did you think cattle drives and cowboys were fake?

Very specific.

You all get together, organize what is needed, how to get there and accomplish your goals, and do what you need to accomplish those goals.

Can you all even agree what specifically needs to be done right now let alone the future? Or are socialist theories no more than complaints, violence, and failure?

You all actually have a chance right now for a revolution of your views but want others to do it for you even if they need your collective help.

And here's an idea from a capitalist because it seems you all are clueless.

Imagine going with the agreement of bringing food, water, toilet paper, and other SUPPLIES in DEMANDS for the people. A trade that they are unlikely going to dismiss.

Or let it fail.

Yes, me and the 400 other faggots from Holla Forums should go over to "fix" Venezuela. I don't think you understand. Venezuela's problems are multi-national, from the global crash in oil prices and economic warfare that's been waged on that country for decades. There's little we could do in the country itself that Venezuelans aren't already doing.
Are you suggesting that there would be some kind of reactionary uprising? We're aware. The point is to get enough people on our side that the reactionary uprising will be in a solid minority and will be easily crushed, which is the point of agitating.
You're a political illiterate if you think he isn't.

They're already struggling, fuckboy, it's too late to make this argument. They didn't diversify.
It's not the fucking farmers that are keeping Texas afloat, it's that they have a huge service and tech industries there.

But that was my point, they aren't as dependent on oil as places like Venezuela and North Dakota.

Nice trips fag. Checked. And yes I do understand. What you forget is nothing in history has been achieved sitting in a chair from the sidelines.

Get food, supplies, and bargain them with loyalty.

-When the rich decide to revolt in the US, its over. For leftists. That's what you forget. I didn't make this the reality. The reason nothing is happening is because the rich have not said "fuck it, lets go".

-I'm not a political illiterate that's why I put extremist in quotations. The truth the public will know is a lot different than what you think the truth is. The problem is you are in a bubble where you don't expose yourself to how and WHAT average people think. Isolated and deluded.

One last thing before I sign off. I'm going to keep an open mind. I'm not going to dismiss socialism's ability to function.

Yes Venezuela is shit now, but if the left can get it to function, I won't say shit. But if Venezuela stays shit or fails, its time for modern man to write the experiment as a mistake.

I'm going to use the scientific method because if it still can't get its shit together, then no nation can be socialist or communist without having a international vaccum and hyper idealized conditions. Thus a retarded ans wasted effort.

There democratic socialist

This would be valid except

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11501

They are not actually practicing socialism, so much as threatening it, for purposes

We're not on the "sidelines". Venezuela is beyond our control and, to be honest with you, none of our business. Not our fight, we're better off promoting socialism in our own countries rather than trying to save some failing SocDem state.

So a place that is not and never was socialist failing is proof that socialism can't work? Great logic there, fam.

Nice vulgar scientism, fucko.

mp4 related.

nope, still a quality meme.

All that has been proven is that the emergence of socialist thought has not magically rendered moot the simple fact of life that opportunism renders ideology moot. Which should be common sense.

By a government that doesn't represent the people. The workers did not own the means of production.

And even if Venezuela were somehow socialist, it would still be one of the worst possible examples, which is why it is so memed about.

Not an argument

That is true. We need market socialism until a planned economy can be achieved by more advanced technology and improved economic theory to be able to compete with capitalist countries. Best way to export socialism to other countries is to show workers that this system actually works and benefits them more than capitalism

The same can happen (and HAS happened) to any capitalist country

"The means of production was siezed" is not enough.

The means of production were siezed and redistributed during both the French and American revolution.
Does that make George Washington a communist?

Socialism is worker ownership and management of the means of production

"lol but what does that even mean xD?"

In any given society, you're going to have three basic groups of people:

Productive Labor - The people who directly produce the goods and services society needs though their work, they must necessarily produce more than they themselves use, creating a surplus
Unproductive Labor - People who's work is not directly involved in the production of socially necessary goods and services (eg - soldiers, lawyers, firemen, police, etc)
The Ruling Class - The people who receive the surplus created by productive labor and decide how it should be used and distributed.

Socialism is a relation of production where that third group has been abolished and its functions distributed to the former two groups, with special deference to productive labor. It isn't the state owning anything, if the relation of production hasn't changed. It isn't the ruling party calling themselves "socialist" if they haven't changed the basic relation of production. Only when that essential relation of production has been altered can a system legitimately call itself socialist.

You guys move the goalposts so much, you're keeping the website healthier than tumblr

Our goalposts have always been the same. The fact that you don't understand socialism, or otherwise are intentionally trying to obfuscate the meaning of socialism isn't our problem (well, the latter is our problem, but it isn't the result of sophistry on our part).

...

youtube.com/watch?v=RzqoaXlfg_I

(why do I always fail the first captcha and pass the second captcha?)

they can't say "we failed"

The left wing has a nasty habit of supporting anyone who calls himself socialist because the thought of a grassroots revolution is 2spoopy. They can't quite get over the fact that Chavez was a fat retard using iconography and oil money to make people like him.

No true Scotsman in 3,2,1.

They always pretend they people in politics are color-blind, and nobody knows that they are reds and what historical record they have with their horrible social experiments, dictatorship and failed economic policies. But every time they explain that these were not true reds, these were some other guys (colored in fake red) with the same class-struggle resentment bullshit rhetoric and same retarded proposals of redistributing the wealth from working people to some new fashionable today type of somehow disabled moochers. And they as usual in their elitism pretentiously think that people are naive and don't understand this shit.

flag related.

really

Look at

That's called capitalism.

Oh sorry, our socialist party nationalizes private property, but that DOESN'T COUNT! Our socialist party ruins the economy, but that doesn't count! That's not socialist! And when socialists kill millions in camps that also doesn't count! Because that is not in the definition of socialism! Socialists are not responsible for socialist policies because they don't fit the definition of socialism! What a wonderful ideology you have, allows you to do horrible shit, but it's not responsible for it! You are more cancerous than muslims. Islam is the religion of peace, you know, when muslims kill themselves in the name of islam, that's because they are bad people, their religion didnt du nothing.
Seriously, who the fuck do you think you are kidding?

nice meme

Socialism and Private Property can't coexist, at all. Venezuela is still very much at the hands of foreign investors and has national and foreign businesses in charge of production. It's not Socialist, was it on the path towards it or was it simply rethoric? I don't know.
It does count, those here who deny that the USSR and other ML states were Socialist do so on Economic and Political basis. Body count-shaming isn't an argument, if we counted everyone who dies of starvation in africa as a failure of Capitalism you would call us out for denying the part African governments played, it's the same thing you're doing here.

...

theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/12/venezuela-maduro-rules-out-recall-referendum-before-next-year

let's see:

- Around 1 850 000 referendum signatures were sent to the CNE
- ~600K of those were flushed down the shitter, including mine
- The government says that they will do everything that they can to make the referendum start after January 10, 2017 (in that case, we won't have elections if Maduro loses in the referendum, Maduro will just be replaced by the vice president, Aristóbulo Isturiz)
- Diosdado shows what they will do if the referendum happens in 2017 and Maduro loses: Aristóbulo (current vice president, new president in this scenario) goes in, names Maduro as the vice president, resigns a week later, and then Maduro ends up being the president again.

We already live in post-scarcity, the problem being it's not profitable to provide people with their necessities

Who would you vote for over Maduro? PCV?

globovision.com/article/ejecutivo-regulara-precios-de-viviendas-del-mercado-inmobiliario-privado

RIP anyone looking for a house (only rich people can buy something like that at this point. the materials to build a house cost a shitton of money)
I guarantee that the government will put a really low maximum limit on everything and you won't hear anything about someone selling a house in a few months.

They rejected the national assembly (opposition majority)'s move to give everyone a property title, now they're saying that property titles will be provided, but only to new owners.

Such a similar name to es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rede_Globo
which backed the Coup here in Brazil, I wonder who could be behind them

because poor people are the ones constantly buying and selling real estate, right?
same as here this is a media fueled coup with populist undertones but which only serves the interests of the upper middle class (we call them "coxinhas", it's our version of "yuppie")

I don't know what Rede Globo is, but Globovisión has always been opposition leaning. In this article, they're just repeating what came out of Maduro's mouth, so I don't know what you mean by "media fueled".

Is everyone reporting on the lynchings, lootings, scarcity, inflation, and people from the government/tsj/cne wiping their asses with their own rules and the constitution a coupist to you?

>>>/n/430716
Democracy in Venezuela is an illusion

test

Who are you hoping to vote for over PSUV?

PCV? The PSUV isn't great, but most of the opposition seems pretty Porky.

I'm not the previous venezuelan guy on this thread (my signature is valid), but I'll vote for whoever ends up as the presidential candidate in the opposition coalition. Anything else is throwing your vote away, It's not about voting for other people, it's about voting against Maduro.

ok, so disregarding rightists being in an echochamber and never listening to counterpoints and spewing talking points direct from fox news,

what are some of the socialist actions venezuela actually did?
nationalizing oil and redistributing the surplus in the form of services is socialist imo
not direct production for use though, so maybe it's not 100% socialist

And possibly bringing in someone worse?

Yes. At least we'll be fucked by a new person.

1st pic

Chavez instituted agricultural co-ops and agrarian reforms although they're state-run and aren't technically the worker's property, I'm pretty sure the state owns whatever the co-ops produce as well, so there's lots of room for corruption.

read

the distrust of media isn't a fenomenum that has reached the 3rd world yet.

The government arbitrary moving property around is social, not economic policy. There is nothing here that implies democratic ownership of property.

128 voting centers were added to the existing ones, no idea how they will be distributed.

128+24 = 152

do you even read what you're replying to?

go suck a fat dick, gringo

Verga si, ni Chávez ni Maduro tienen la culpa, la culpa la tienen los gringos.

some popular vote to get maduro dropped, ya.
I have no reason to believe his policies are to blame for the crisis nor to believe that the opposition that might eventually replace him will do any better for the people. The crisis is a result of massive corruption and a very unfortunate drop in oil prices. The venezuelan people don't know that though, not only is it the immediate reaction to blame whatever government is in charge during problems but corporate media is constantly feeding anti-government sentiments among the populace.
The people are far from infalible and are easily manipulated, something anarkiddies can't get through their thick skull, their vote means nothing to me.
Also if you believe a right wing government would diversify venezuela's economy you're insane, before Chavez poverty rates were at 66% percent.

:^)

have you ever been in venezuela?

Nombra al menos un partido venezolano de derecha que sea importante.

...

It doesn't take calling yourself Right-wing to be right-wing.
Every single Neoliberal party in Brazil has Social or Social Democratic in its name, no one has the balls to call themselves Right-wing after the people have seen what they have done.
Still what determines political alignment is policy, not rhetoric.

¿Sabes cuántas instituciones "autónomas" son sólo una extensión del gobierno?

El presidente no gobierna solo, pero, ¿nunca te has preguntado por qué los demás países no están tan hundidos en mierda como Venezuela?

venezuela is not socialist
north korea is down-right a monarchy
china is capitalist, with a good welfare system

nice meymey op

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