If socialism is acting in my best interests, why should i risk my life in a violent revolution?
I have a well paying job that i have to work little because i don't actually need so much money, i live a simple lifestyle and i'm not a consumerist, i don't want to die, i don't want to shoot people or hang porkie, why should i give a fuck?
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You shouldn't.
The objective circumstances are not present for you.
But don't come crying when you don't have enough to live or have to work too much…
If your home is invaded by some lumpen motivated by material desperation and you aren't able to defend yourself with your bootstraps, maybe you'll wish you had taken more preventative measures.
Or maybe you'll be forever lucky and that'll only be one of those things that happens to "other people", but as long as we're going over why you should care, preventative maintenance of the fabric of society would count.
You never know when things can turn and go South for you. Why should the son of a king (not your position obviously) give a shit about the peasants when his life is all cool and great man!?
You're expected to grow some balls and join the struggle.
I guess you are right, i honestly don't give a shit about people that are not me, my friends or my family, i don't hate the poor, i don't think they deserve their misery but i don't feel empathy for them.
What part of "contributing to a society where there are dramatically fewer material conditions to spark violent crimes that you or a loved one could potentially be victimized by" strikes you as not being a selfish endeavor?
I live in a first world country where crime is almost non existent
Fine, that's all part and parcel of a judgement call that only you can make; but even without your job security being undermined by capitalism as it inevitably will be at some point, you can't say that socialism is some purely charitable proposal from your perspective. Your interests, long and short term, are tied into issues it deals with intimately.
But you are living on a planet currently being ruined to the point of irrevocable ecological devastation because of the irrational excesses of capitalism.
For right now? There really isn't much reason. Your best personal interest is probably to keep going with what you're doing.
However, that is not going to be true forever. Consider the fact that in barely 20 years, the american "middle class", well-paid workers, one of the most robust of its kind in the world, had its spine broken in half. And there's little to suggest that it's going to get much better.
We are talking about having billions and billions of dollars ripped from millions of people. I want you to think for a minute just what that means for you. The same thing could happen again and again and it will affect more and more people.
You don't need to be a front line revolutionary to support socialism. What people forget is that even revolutionaries need non-combat assistance.
You guys almost sound like preppers "EVERYTHING WILL END, I WARNED YOU".
It's not on my best interest to be worrying so much about things i have so little control
And as another thread here implies, the porkies on this planet are getting so stupendously wealthy that they are going to seize all the off-planet resources for pennies on the dollar. This is like if colonial Europeans bought North America before any settlers could come over, and your ancestors basically had to either choose between accepting any extortion-level terms they set in exchange for settlement there, or remain in an increasingly crowded Europe where fewer and fewer people could afford to leave.
I have no idea if your descendant's wellbeing is the sort of argument that appeals to you, but on some level I doubt you'd be comfortable with this.
Capitalism will end, that's as self-evident a fact as anything else. Do you honestly believe that capitalism is the one immortal economic system and that it can endure in ways manorialism or mercantilism couldn't?
And how do you know that you "can't do anything"? It doesn't sound as though you've examined the issue in much depth, partly because you've determined ahead of time that you want to justify the inaction you've already decided on.
...
Bullshit. Grab a gun. Organize. Convince everyone you know that there's a better solution.
Are you fucking retarded or are you just completely oblivious to the mounting accounts of ecological change and devastation that are beginning to wrack the planet?
Oceanic "dead zones" have exploded in growth over the past fifty years. Groundwater/aquifer depletion have also exploded, particularly in places like the western United States, which could have tremendous impacts on hundreds of millions of people in events such as the ongoing drought in California, especially considering that many of these underground sources of water that these tremendous populations depend on cannot be replenished and once they are used up (as they are being at an alarming rate). Atmospheric carbon levels are rising and due to not only the depletion of forests across the planet but the aforementioned oceanic dead zones the planet is having an increasingly difficult time reabsorbing, causing rising temperatures and subsequently rising sea levels and ever more powerful storms.
And that's just off the top of my head. The EU is already going nuts trying to deal with absorbing the relatively few refugees escaping low-intensity conflicts in the Middle East, how do you think things are going to go when there are mass displacements and migrations due to changing environmental factors? There are plenty of historical examples where even minute changes in global temperatures lead to profound disturbances both in the world of food production and the human political arena.
And that's just for starters. It's entirely possible that rising global temperatures could melt the antarctic ice that trapped billions of tons of prehistoric methane gas, releasing it and leading to the death of everyone on the fucking planet.
Well if you like the lifestyle under capitalism then no, you shouldn't care at all since you already live under capitalism.
And if you desired a form of life that is in conflict with capitalism then there wouldn't even be a discussion about violence, it would just be a question of tactics.
It's OK OP..
You're a sociopath. You will live a great life in capitalism. You fit it perfectly.
**just hope it doesn't go down anytime soon*
Then don't, I don't care. Nobody cares. What do you want us to do? Beg you to be a part of some revolution that likely won't happen in our lifetime because you're an extra special? Go make a million dollars and be happy, or go hang yourself or anything in between, nobody cares.
You seem pretty assured of this in spite of the obviously superficial understanding of socialism you have. I wonder if maybe there's some ulterior motive you might have for wanting to justify your preconceptions?
Posting Zizek next to your bullshit doesn't mean you have anything to contribute. Make a point or hush.
Back to the Zizek then
What was written
What you read
Back to basic fucking reading and writing for you, troglodyte.
Likely.
Also we are likely not gonna have a meteorite crash into the earth.
Likely.
So, do we both not work towards revolution and don't check the sky for asteroids and meteors?
Of course we do. For those who go after us to further develop our struggles until the project is complete comrade.
The point is it's not so imminent that I care if some random dude bro on the Internet is onboard.
You can support revolution and at the same time acknowledge it's likely not going to happen soon. What are you asserting? That the only way to support revolution is to believe it's right around the corner with nothing to back that up?
Look at the actual left right now and tell me that the revolution is near based on that. Unless your some basic ass bitch Bernie supporter, you probably have to acknowledge that there is a lot of work to be done in rehabilitating the left before revolution becomes viable.
Again I have to ask, what is your argument? That I just have to believe harder? Examine yourself.
So where in your infinite wisdom do you see the timeline on catastrophic global environmental crisis taking place? Because this is a black swan with real short to medium-term consequences that cannot be effectively solved without socialism, and is likely to create associated class hardship to spur revolution.
If it's not going to happen in the next 20 years, tell me why so many climate scientists are saying differently, and why I shouldn't believe you didn't just come here to muzzle the voices in the back of your head that are protesting your selfish inaction.
not OP, but the conditions aren't right at the moment, at least not in my country (ex-yu). I'm all for the return of RAF, but if I were to try that today I would just end up in newspapers as a "lone-wolf with paranoid schizophrenia" or something like that. And the same goes for convincing others to join you. Today people think you're a bit mentally ill if you try to seriously discuss politics with them, and they think you're totally batshit crazy if you tell them that we need to attack the system. I mean, OK, let's say I could somehow gather a couple of people and convince them to form a left "terrorist" group. There would be no support from anyone outside the group. All the "leftists" would only use us to show how they are not like us, how they're pacifist, how they'd rather have fascism than hurt or even inconvenience anybody, how the system shouldn't be afraid of the left, and so on and so on…
These are really depressing times. The problem is that people don't have any perception of the war and domination anymore, nobody thinks in terms of friend/enemy anymore, instead we have a complete capitalist-liberal hegemony. It seems like the only option is for the system to break itself down somehow. Or maybe even a small group of people can do that if they find a right spot where you just have to slightly push it so that it comes falling down.
That there is a lot work to be done and we should keep doing it.
Please point out to me the current leftist structures in place that have revolutionary potential in the first world. Please point out the orginizations that are forming in the first world that have revolutionary potential.
Your argument is basically "things are getting bad, so the revolution HAS to happen" a tires argument that has been made by every leftist who believed in the inevitability of their revolution. Since you seem to like Slavvy Zizzo so much, lemme give you a (paraphrased) quote from him.
While once the left was confident in its place on the undeniable train of progress and history, we have now found ourselves in the position of desperately trying to hit the brakes on the train of history
Revolution, the revolution we want, will be based on whether or not leftist orginizations are able to reassert themselves to a meaningful degree. As of yet, this has not happened. While I'd love to believe it will happen in the next 20 years, I remain unconvinced and your ideas about inevitability are outdated and completely useless to any serious discussion, only serving to avoid having to discuss any real hard part of the question 'what is to be done'. Read some Lenin how about.
Agreed, but that work isn't pleading with strangers on the Internet to be a part of a revolution that isn't even near in progress.
And yet the OP is posed in such a way that self-interested prostrating to porky is the implied natural outcome of the "failure" of leftist organizations to meet whatever exactly your standards happen to be. I somehow doubt that "read Lenin" jives well with that.
Don't lecture people about "hard discussion" in a topic about how self-interest trumps socialism, how about.
again I ask what your argument is. That the revolution works in a similar way to fairy magic and is based on a metric of "how hard you believe"
That I should beg OP to join us?
Do you think I'm OP?
What. Is. your. Point.
Yeah actually I thought you were OP, fuck.
And again, I ask you to point out the first world orginizations that will have revolutionary potential in your timeframe. If you can't do that, you have nothing to say, unless you think revolution just appears spontaneously and people magically just become socialists when they are mad. Again. Read. Lenin.
Oh, okay, I was curious about that but I thought my flag would have differentiated me. What a pointless argument we just had.
good meme
YOU DON'T SAY!!!
Never change pol.
If it doesn't the human race will be driven extinct. This kind of defeatism has ruined the left.
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Just look fucking around you, who could be optimistic? The people don't even deserve to be saved.
Stop being such a pansy, pull up your pants and do something comrade.
like what, start the revolution that the workers don't even want or understand, and are too ignorant to ever be interested in? they want capitalism and it's what we'll get
Come on comrade. Explain to them the alternative of socialism and the injustices of capitalism. Begin with democracy in the workplace. Don't be such a downer.
I don't even have a workplace. No room for lazy autists with mental issues in the revolution anyway.
Sorry, I'm just in a bad mood.
It'll be okay user, all you need is one comrade. It took me a solid year of sperging to convert my best (only) friend, but it is nice to have someone to talk to about leftist issues thats not on the internet and that you can go eat pizza with or whatever.
I wish I had your courage, or rather, your patience. I have a "friend" who is a total porky, but I don't have the patience to talk to her
this is certainly true, but its also true that convincing people like the OP is a step forward, however small a step it may be. if we both agree that leftist organizations are in a dire state, its in the left's best interest to grow its numbers, and that starts with arguments with people who have different opinions, right? that's how i got convinced over to this side from liberalism. you guys had better arguments than me.
so, shouldn't we at least try to convince this guy? what arguments would be effective to convince him of leftism's usefulness to his self interest that he would be receptive to? isn't that the question we should be asking right now rather than being defeatist?
Nah bro. It's okay
Hope you have a better day
Remember friend: the difference between you and homelessness is whether you can pay the rent on time
for your children's sake, and their children.
for the sake of the starving and those suffering you ignorant sociopath
how does it feel knowing this doesn't exist and you are a fucking retarded bitch.
go read marx
How does it feel being triggered.
you dont have to. right now theres no reason to "fight for the proletariat" if your individual freedom is obstructed in the process of doing so
Good point, OP. The reason the revolution isn't upon us is because the present situation is better than risking everything, including death. Most people aren't stupid, just uncoordinated.
The biggest danger is that people will choose capitalism over anything else out of convenience and comfort. We must fight against capitalist way of living not because we're suffering under capitalism but because we want to live differently, because we refuse to be consumers and entrepreneurs. Do you seriously want to live in a capitalist utopia where you don't have to work and instead you are just a consumer? If we prefer living under capitalism over the risk of dying then we have already lost. The enemy expects us to not risk it, that's why in the end they can afford to do anything with us. And they really are doing everything to extinguish any non-capitalist form of life, and we're letting them do it if we begin to separate out bare survival from the way we want to live.
The only part of the human race that's going to go instinct is non-whites.
It's missing a YPJ pic on the left side.
They are not Marxists.
Did I miss something?
Isn't Marxist, I mean.