Why are you guys so rude? There's no need for this "revolutionary" stuff. Just because someone is rich...

Why are you guys so rude? There's no need for this "revolutionary" stuff. Just because someone is rich, it doesn't mean he/she/ze is a bad person.

Can't blame them when the hand and the flower icon looks that gay

But most of the arguments seem to point to reform being undesirable and incapable of bringing about the conditions of a revolution

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idk guys, i don't think a revolution is necessary, too much bloodshed…

maybe if we pay higher wages to the workers perhaps? but we can't make the rich feel scared, I mean they need their surplus as well…

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i sincerely hope you kill yourself some time soon

Are you trying to pretend you are a socdem in order to troll people or are you just plain stupid?

IM TRIGGERED BY YOUR UNCHECKED IDEOLOGY

You're entitled to your opinion. Insofar as a class divide exists and a tiny elite are in control of the means of production, there exists the possibility and the conditions for exploitation, every time. I can't recall the last time a factory owner just took a worker's share and paid everyone their labor's pure worth.

I can't abide by that. You need revolution to end that possibility. If you think the rich will voluntarily relinquish the means of production, I would call you naive. If you don't want the workers to be in full control of the means of production, I would say you are not a leftist.

Is this a joke?

It's social democracy. So yes, it is.

You have to ask?

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Fuck you pretty-face-capitalist sellouts and your atrocious public monopoly over non-socialism.

Quit bumping the thread faggots.

Pussy

Someone who got rich through capitalism, did so by exploiting others. So yes, it does make them bad people.

most of the retarded commies here are just jealous losers @ life, thus they turn to some idiotic religion that promises them salvation. they believe if they could only abuse average citizens as cannon fodder for their "revolution", they could finally be winners at life.

of course theyll stay random ugly fat smelly virginal internet losers though

You need to be 18+ for this website.

Right, that's what materialist analysis is for. If everything marxism explains could be explained by the liberal
Then Marxism would be invalidated.

We want revolution because it is necessary, not because it is vengeance against da big mean porky.

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This might be a troll thread, but for most workers of the world (at least in the first world), capitalism isn't experienced as oppressive at all and so the most extreme thing they can find themselves agreeing with is a decent welfare state. Even if I myself am very class conscious and believe in violent revolution, life isn't unlivable. I work about 49 hours a week, which despite being hard is enjoyable since I share my fate with my colleagues and I like my craft, make enough to get by and get myself a couple of weeks of vacation a year and leisure stuff like books and vidya. Perhaps once the welfare state is sufficiently erroded by neoliberal austerity might we see a desire from the workers of the world to look further.

We still need people to not conform with they perceive as their comforts. They need to be shown that there is something better and more free.

There has never been a successful reformist emancipatory movement that was successful without the backdrop of revolutionary violence. Reformism is the act of selling out revolutionaries for short term concessions.

The issue is that unless they are pressed to seriously challenge their worldview by capitalism failing, that any alternative to capitalism has a connotation with the 20th century and its ultimately either crushed attempts at revolution or revolutions turned bureaucracy. Even if they see their livelihood threatened, they would need to actually conclude it is the system that is failing, which I consider very unlikely. More likely is that they will conclude that the system was rigged, that individuals are responsible, the government policies, etc.

Oh, you mean like me, who works every night and just wants to sleep at night?
Or the cook I wake up at 4 in the morning and works double shift?
Or the countless unemployed that get more depessed day by day?

Ooooh! You mean the workers on SocDem countries!

Ye… they're about to go full nazi, once the system goes down again, since they cannot blame their beloved system and will rather blame Ahmed.

I don't live in a socdem country, and I don't know about them. I live in Hong Kong btw.

Really?

Yeah, capitalism always makes its excuses for crashes by scapegoating other thing. I think it's to begin by talking about how workplaces should be run democratically rather than by ultra rich individuals who give us nothing and don't suffer what us proles suffer. I'm not in a first world country comrade, so it's may be harder for you.

Eh.. Just wait till the Nordic Model fails. It's not that far.

In fact, if you see how the world goes… the only way for capitalism to survive .. is war.

Step foward: we hear
That you are a good man.
You cannot be bought, but the lightning
Which strikes the house, also
Cannot be bought.
You hold to what you said.
But what did you say?
You are honest, you say your opinion.
Which opinion?
You are brave.
Against whom?
You are wise.
For whom?
You do not consider personal advantages.
Whose advantages do you consider then?
You are a good friend
Are you also a good friend of the good people?

Hear us then: we know
You are our enemy. This is why we shall
Now put you in front of a wall.
But in consideration of
your merits and good qualities
We shall put you in front of a good wall and shoot you
With a good bullet from from a good gun and bury you
With a good shovel in the good earth.