Small businesses are bourgeois?

They are petty-bourgeois by definition. But I don't think the petty bourgeois are class enemies. They can exploit workers, obviously, but small businesses existed before capitalism so it's not like they're inherently capitalist either, usually they're just self-employed workers who sometimes also acquired a little extra means of production (but not strictly capital) and now employ maybe one or two workers. But this is not always the case and usually the owner also performs labor alongside those workers so isn't solely a social parasite. I think, because they aren't our biggest problem and don't have the social power to become serious enemies they should be mostly left alone during the revolution. They will be swept away by automation, though, and will have cease existing once socialism transitions into communism.

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This thread

They don't.

Are small co-ops okay in your opinion?

You wouldn't happen to be the same idiot from the American Election thread, would you?

Why not just coops though?

I'm kind of new here. Can you tell me the difference? Because if you need other people to work with you, it's more right to set up a co-op right?

The big difference is democracy. Co-ops are democratically run. In a small business ,regardless of how much respect the owner has their employees, the owner has the final say in all decision making.

Oh ok. Then yeah, if a person really cares, they'd have a co-op.

that's a co-op

The difference between a coop and a corporation is the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship.
Pretty fucking huge.

Gulag yourself immediately. These people are the voting base for bourgeois parties.

Only the dead can know peace.

I always ask them "why shouldn't they? They are as integral to the productive process as any other employee. Why should functionaries get to make decisions about janitorial work they fundementally know nothing about?

The petty bourgeoisie have typically backed reactionaries and fascists in social conflicts. I would not regard them as natural allies. Still, it all boils down to ideology, small business owners that side with us are our friends, but I seriously doubt many of them will.

No, they're not syndicalists. They're petty bourgeoisie. They don't own much property, but they still own private property that will be collectivized in any prospective revolution.

Small business is the economic equivalent of creationist's "micro evolution". It's a way to admit there's something flawed with the traditional position, so they adapt a small point which seems progressive but doesn't actually make any difference in their overall argument.

To answer you're question: it depends on the business.

Not to mention small businesses aren't widespread anymore due to capitalism's tendency to have the market dominated by large firms. So imo discussing the supposed "morality" of the petty bourgeois enterprise is pointless.

The idea that small businesses are the pinnacle of virtue needs to die if socialism is going to gain a real foot hold in america

If they extract surplus value from their workers they are class enemies.

Again with the pettit bourgies.

They are insigificant, as capitalism grows and their bussineses are being swallowed by corporations, thus being turned into prols.

HOWEVER!

There is indeed the "self-employment" movement in neoliberalism and it hasn't been analyzed enough.

Take things like Uber for example. People doing that THINK they have no boss, yet they are more or less (more than less) serfs.

"Yes, you can farm that field, but you'll give me most of your produce".

And the most important problem is, how to make them grow ClassCon.

Why? They produce commodities, employ wage laborers, and rely on private property. There can be no such thing as a small business undex socialism.

No. Not in any way.

Still produce commodities and rely on he systems of private property and wage labor.

If they didn't extract surplus value then they wouldn't employ the worker. With extracting surplus value from their employees the business is guaranteed to fail.

If they are a business owner they are a boss.

Yes green wouldn't be green if it was blue.

If its a 'one man coop' then its fine If they have ANY worker besides the Director then they're cancer t. am Self employed and was exploited by a fat paki bastard who owned multiple shops.

Small business owners ARE bourgeois and have the same exploitative potential as wealthier capitalists. Oftentimes, the lack of scrutiny on small businesses allows for conditions to be worse for their workers.

However, tactically it doesn't make much sense to focus on them. Corporations are far easier targets and generally more exploitative. I'm sure that most small business owners simply don't understand why their actions are oppressive.

Small businesses can also be pretty easily turned into co-ops or other democratized not-for-profit unions. I'd argue that the formation of co-ops (or employee buyouts of companies) are a great way to enact socialism in a small scale, and legitimize non-capitalist economy.

Independent producers are workers, not employers. I'd argue that this is also true of writers, musicians, and other artists.

they are, technically bourg, because as everyone stated previously, they exploit workers, no matter how little, for their profit. Yes, even if they're "good bosses". However, I think overall the petit bourgeois are typically not ideologically driven like corporate execs. Generally, most small business owners have the urge to make their living by filling an as of yet unfilled niche, making improvements where they see no development, or want to employ their creativity when they see no opportunity to do so under the thumb of a major company. Often, they just don't want an authoritarian figure looming over them (and thus may become a "benevolent" dictator over their own employees).
This is in contrast to what I see as the corporate drive, which essentially uses human labour as resources in their grand scale farmville type game, where they accumulate capital for accumulation's sake.

here and there, a petitbourg is successful enough that he is presented the opportunity to participate in Capitalville (tm), sees what that wealth could grant him, and slowly transforms into a full grown bourgie, even if he does try to "be a good boss".

fuck my bear flag! I keep taking it off but it just comes back on.

I support small and middle business IF the workers control those businesses

people being classcucked doesn't make them class enemies, it just makes them classcucked.

It depends on what the small business is. Here in Texas, a lot of service is technically small business, but they don't produce anything and under close examination are paid per invoice rather than wage by big companies. So in a way they are not-employees, with the distinction it's cheaper to pay them more and not have to pay for insurance or whatever than it would be for an employee.

Read zizek

Honestly this. As far as I'm concerned the small business owner should have to forcibly sell most of his shares to his employees, possibly with the help of subsidies.

stop acting like everything you dont agree with has been posted a million times. ive never seen a small-business sympathy thread ever on this board.

Petty bourgeoisie.