DPRK, a.k.a. Best Korea

What are your opinions on the DPRK?

A good implementation of communism/Marxism-Leninism through the Juche idea or an oppressive authoritarian regime that is socialist in name only?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche
facebook.com/CoreadelnorteApoyo/videos/
youtube.com/watch?v=VvsqS5YGfSg
poal.me/mztn2u
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/30.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_group_(sociology)
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

The latter. Only retarded tankies support them.

No one seriously thinks the DPRK is socialist except for Cao and other North Koreaboos

jason pls go

Who's jason?

North Korea is fascist.

They're aesthetically "communist" to appeal to China and (formerly) the USSR.

They never even seriously attempted to go socialist or communist, from the start the where emphasizing racialist nationalism and generally served as the model for the crypto-fascist turn of states like Romania.

Make helluva dank art tho.

If recall correctly they dropped the socialism and use Juche instead.

Is it Fascism? No, that's pretty fucking retarded, not every thing you don't agree is Fascism. The place is its own thing and they seem to be doing better than you would expect from an isolationist country. There was a good thread on North Korea here, was made by some tankie Serbian.

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It depends on what you mean by "fascism".

If you're talking strictly about the ideology created by Mussolini, "fascism" has only existed in one place in history, and that was Italy between 1922 and 1945.

If you're talking about the general shared ideological tendencies of the Axis Powers and other far-right nationalist states like Franco's Spain and Pinochet's Chile, then "fascism" could be described, basically, as "radical nationalism", and I think North Korea fits neatly into that category.

Yes, totally not fascist.

every axis country was either a marriage of state and corporations or a monarchy. North Korea is neither.

keep believing everything the liberals tell you bro. I'd argue with you but I am tired of arguing with 'communist' that believe any piece of propaganda that fits their worldview, I have done nothing but that since Holla Forums is full of them.

Yeah, we really wish people like that (i.e. you) would just fuck of back to Holla Forums where you belong.

(1)

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DPRK is literally both.

Now I remember why I left Holla Forums, too many redditards and too many "read a book fgt" not reading the fucking books.

tankies.

Didn't they remove any mention of socialism from their constitution a few decades ago? They aren't even pretending, and no one except for retarded tankies wants to pretend they're socialist either.

The Western media likes to pretend that they're socialist.

Kill DPRK

They removed all mentions of Marxism, they're Juche socialist now.

Which means they're about as socialist as the Germans in the 40s.

This.

It is a workers paradise. All naysayers are Holla Forums shills or their useful idiots.

I often hope posts like this are ironic but I know they are genuine.

Yes, everyone who disagrees that the DPRK is a workers paradise is a fascist or one of their imperialist accomplices.

Since when is killing fascists wrong?

and soon there's no one left and the whole world hates you :^)

i do support kim il sung legacy, seriously what's wrong with juche? why are so much people against this adorable country?

Because it's a red fascist hellhole run by tankies who don't even call themselves communists anymore.

From the Wikipedia page:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

You've not read Chomsky, have you?

that's just fascist propaganda my comrad. north korea is a proletarian paradise just like cuba, but i cant judge you by being slanted by bourgeois media.

facebook.com/CoreadelnorteApoyo/videos/

It's not socialism.
PDF related.

why? (the pdf is way to long to me) make an abstarct pls.
they seem pretty socialists to me:

We've already explained this shit several times in the thread.

Also, none of the things you listed is socialism.

TL;DR: Juche is a farcical ideology made up to appeal to the USSR/China for international support. The North Korean government has much more in common with the Japanese imperialist government of the 1930s/40s (which actually contributed to the political legacy of North Korea)
North Korea is based on racial nationalism rather than class struggle. Kim John Il explicitly rejected dialectical materialism in the early 90s.

i've just watched how you guys keep arguing it's a kind of fascist model, what it's just bollocks, i need an economy-based argument for declaring north korea a capitalis-fascist nation.

We've been over this.

A corporatist model of class collaboration is not enough? Maybe the fact that they have extensive Special Economic Zones for trade with PRC and Russia helps?

You are aware the point of goalposts is that they don't move right?

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i thought that nationalization of the means of production were an essential point of the transitory phase to a communist society.

by talking with some fascists i've learned that fascists are againsts the print of fiat money (im not sure though)

let me guess,are you a brainwashed ballsless socdem aren't you?

youtube.com/watch?v=VvsqS5YGfSg

Real mature, tankie scum.

That's just them aping the American lolberts and other Autistrian School retards.

Also, it's the collectivization of the means of production. Nationalization means nothing if it isn't accompanied by collectivization.

North Korea is an authoritarian communist state.

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Prove me wrong. They think they're communist, they're doing Communism while saying they're communist. I don't know what you want me to say.

Korea stronk

you all should be libertarian nationalists. its a real thing; i swear

poal.me/mztn2u

poal.me/mztn2u

poal.me/mztn2u

poal.me/mztn2u

See

They have a ruling family akin to a monarchy. They consider Il-Sung to be the "eternal president". Kim Jong-Il was the largest importer of Hennessy in the world and the ruling class lives like royalty while the rest of the country slaves away in the fields.

If you watch videos of their computer " classrooms" you see people just sitting at the computers, staring at the screen. The videos are blatantly staged.

They have a starving population (with reports of cannibalism) yet they spend millions on ballistic rockets and nuclear weapon development.

They're a joke country that oppresses its people and they don't even allow them access to the internet under the guise of protecting them from "imperialist propaganda".

Jesus fucking christ that's retarded.
This is what happens when tankies get high on Confucianism.

le ebin sockalist snowblow meme :DDD

Notbad.jpg

ITT: Holla Forums shills regurgitate anti-DPRK propaganda.

t. tankie

I take it you are an Anarkiddie?

t. opportunists

tankiddie triggered

Thank you, based Mautist.

Ffs, Kim Il Sung is the "eternal president"

What's the problem? Don't Yankees jabber on about their founding fathers all the time?

The official platform of the Worker's Party of Korea is "Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism". Just another name for Japanese-style militarism. As for Juche, nobody except the nomenklatura even knows what that entails.

The DPRK is basically a theocratic monarchy. The Kim Jong Un may as well call himself Pharaoh.

Does it not occur to you that the militarism is something that has been forced upon them? The have US military parked on their porch, just itching to reduce to the entire country to a cinder. In their back garden, they have the Chinese. If they want to maintain any potential for independence they need to be capable of mounting a reasonable defence of their lands.


You know that the state of affairs in that country is actually popular with Northerners? Even the ones who left for material reasons. There was a poll in a south Korean paper that demonstrated as much.

Yeah, and Nazi Germany's policies were really popular among the German right.

Government policies being popular doesn't make that government Leftist.

The approval rating was ridiculous. It was something like over 80%. From people who had fled the place.

Didn't say it did, did I?

You were saying that saying that the DPRK being, in essence, a right-wing theocratic monarchy was Western propaganda because the DPRK government had popular policies.

No. I provided a counter-example to the narrative that the U.S. government and it's complicit media (vide Chomsky) that you're basing your value judgements on. If it's the blasted hellhole that your sources claim it is, explain why most of the escapees like the place and would like to return if material conditions improved? It makes no sense.

The cognitive dissonance is amazing. So if they'd like to return why would they escape in the first place?

The deterioration of material conditions in the DPRK due to the effects of American led sanctions.

Because they appeal to the reactionary sentimentality of the Korean far-right by heaping on the Korean ethnic nationalism?

You yourself admit that people flee Korea for material reasons, implicitly admitting that it's an impoverished hellhole, so homesick North Koreans can't possibly yearning for the better living standards they inexplicably left. They support DPRK policies because they've bought into the right-wing Juche ideology and Korean ethnic nationalism. It's like black nationalists in the West calling Africa "the mother land" or "the cradle of civilization", it's not because Africa is such a great place to live.

Again, your entire argument here is premised on information from Porky's sources. Sources which demonstrably do not tell the truth.

Is Socialism of Our Country is a Socialism of Our Style as the Embodiment of the Juche Idea, a speach by Kim Jong-il where he disavows Marxism and Leninism and attributes the DPRK's success (that is, not falling in the wake of the collapse of the USSR) to what is essentially Korean nationalism, Western propaganda too?

The West has gotten good.

Wew lad.
So Sectarian. Much Kronstadt.

") It is impermissible, from the standpoint of Social-Democracy, to issue the slogan of national culture either directly or indirectly. The slogan is incorrect because already under capitalism, all economic, political and spiritual life is becoming more and more international. Socialism will make it completely international. International culture, which is now already being systematically created by the proletariat of all countries, does not absorb “national culture” (no matter of what national group) as a whole, but accepts from each national culture exclusively those of its elements that are consistently democratic and socialist."
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/30.htm

At best, any "nationalist" approach is in the grounds of taking back sovereignty (colonial rule) rather than "muh nashun is da best".


"What is dialectics?"

So the Zapatistas, PKK and the IRA are all right-wing. Okay.

North korea is the most religious nation on earth.

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Pretty much. The only wiggle room I give is for separatism, if you want to separate from a capitalist state to build socialism and strengthen the workers movement. North Korea already has their own state. No excuse.
When you reject the core of Marxist theory and replace it with absurd neo-Confucianist hogwash, yes.

Doesn't "best korea" ban their women from marrying foreigners?

I don`t think so, it has to do with marrying non-citizens.

Well, you the revolutionary workers' revolution of working masses needs anti-imperialist revolutionary working masses in order to workers revolution masses western propaganda imperialism working masses.

Your "facts" are just bourgeois propaganda against the masses of revolutionary working masses to have their own anti-imperialist state of the revolutionary working masses.You need to overcome it by understanding yourself as a part of the revolutionary working masses working to have a revolutionary mass to stop imperialism and thus you need to support any of the states of the revolutionary working masses in order to have a revolution of the revolutionary working masses for the revolutionary working masses.

Is like…you cant read.

How do you become a citizen?

Since when? When military-first politics cropped up in an editorial of the Worker's Daily in the late 90s, after a crippling famine brought about by state mismanagement and lack of trade with a state that had recently underwent a regime change?
Sure, reasonable defense, but let's be frank: Songun is an excuse to have the army do the labor to keep the state afloat while an inner tier of money laundering through Macau helps finance the gifts the Respected Marshal uses to keep the generals and other flag officers pacified. Embargoes and resolutions notwithstanding, independence is quite a tenuous thing for them to proclaim even after 60 years or so.
And whether people know it or not, the Chinese are beginning to lose their patience.
Propaganda or otherwise, that state cannot last long being mostly autarkic and relying on the military to build everything. Especially with gift money drying up.

How so?

This is what tankies actually believe

The only reason China is against North Korea being destroyed or collapsing is because the millions of inevitable refugees will go to China. And no country wants or can handle such an influx.

That part I know. I asked what did you mean about China "losing its patience"

That wasn't me.

But I assume it has to do with North Korea being a laughing stock internationally, threatening nuclear action, etc. then listing China as an ally. So DPRK is that weird friend China brings to a party and everyone thinks China is weird, too.

or an oppressive authoritarian regime that is socialist in name only

Name one thing that's exclusively fascist about them.

Literally brownshirts

Hi Porky

Goddamn it

Can I just say that the corporations of fascism are not the same as the liberal legal constructs known as corporations?

It refers to corporate groups
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_group_(sociology)

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Millions of people killed by famine not so long time ago and hundreds of thousands people on prison (read concentration) camps at the moment. Genocide is the only word I could use to describe this totalitarian state.

Tourists visiting the country make me just sad. How naive you have to be to go there imagining to see anything the country is like outside Pyongyang? They do nothing but support the death of innocent by the money they pay to enter the country.

It has become a joke on social media to laugh at North-Korea. Is just me, or do people lack sense there days?

Oh well, I remember reading an interview of a former reporter who had seen both The Soviet Union and North Korea. I recall that he made the following comparison: compared to North Korea, The Soviet Union was "groovy".

Total fucking bullshit. They simply cannot exist as Western media describes them. It is impossible.

Yeah, who's ever heard of fascists having prison camps.

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Yeah, Holla Forums takes Western propaganda at face value, no big surprise there. But even for people who don't buy into the Cold War notion of "totalitarian government" I don't see any reason to defend the DPRK outright. It's interesting as one of the few corners of earth mostly untouched by capital but it's isolation really only serves to immiserate the population and destroy any hope of revolutionary potential.

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_b

holy fuck, where did all this autism come from

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Kim jung un

Go and read Escape from Camp 14. Go and read all the propaganda about the "Total Control Zones". Then go and read news stories about it. They cannot exist. It doesn't matter how much you cry about this: REPORTS IN PORKY'S OWN MEDIA DISPROVE THIS STUFF.

my gott, pure ideology.
also the poster you're responding to never said death camps, they said prison camps.
Are you going to start shilling for Saddam next?

Here is the original definition:

Go and read the published testimonies of defectors. It does not matter how much you faggots wail about this, those testimonies do not match the evidence.

What exactly is the "evidence"?

And why are you so keen to defend fascists?

Shin Dong-hyuk's father.

Oh look, Porky's propaganda. AGAIN.

Hi faglord, I'm not an agent of porky, though his money is delicious.
First time I've ever been called a capitalist to be honest. Not offended though.
0/10 try harder

So do you think the DPRK is a worker's utopia?

Why do hundreds of people try to defect to S. Korea and China every year?

Why aren't they allowed access to the Internet?

Why aren't tourists allowed to engage with the population?

Why aren't tourists allowed to take pictures of things other than what the tour guide tells them?

Why does everyone have to bow down to a statue of Kim Il-Sung who is the Eternal President even though he's dead? Doesn't seem very scientific to me.

ITT

If you'd read their literature, they all but outright admit to being fascists themselves.

Not that I would expect the cosplay communists that unironically support the DPRK to actually read any of their literature or know anything about Marxism.

No.
Sanctions.

Imperialist propaganda. Spies targeting missiles.

Symbolism.

Except I had a friend who went their earlier this year and it's generally true.

Yes, it generally true that the internet is full of imperialist propaganda.

Famines happen all the time

And propaganda from the DPRK and cosplaying subculture tankies.

You seem pretty salty, there.

Let's admit something right here. "Symbolism" is all you faggots care about.

You faggots would be supporting the Axis Powers right now if they had just put enough faux-Stalinist imagery into their symbols and propaganda.

Yeah actually, I generally consider tankies to be cancer upon the left that needs to be removed. You should accept yourself as either the liberal contrarians or fascists-in-denial that you are.

Context for 4th picture.

Cry more. I am hardly at fault for the fact you both decided to uncritically accept capitalist lies.

Ok fam.

I've shown irrefutable proof that Porky is telling lies about the DPRK.
>>>/liberalpol/

You… are aware that just because there are lies out there it dosen't mean that your safe-space news are the only source of a objective (diamat) truth right?

Go and read Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" and actually try thinking for once.

Capitalist lies like the DPRK's own ideology literature?

This.

Oh holy shit are you illiterate? Chomsky's entire point isn't that media blatantly lies under the order of "imperialism", but that these media outlets are connected to the capitalist ideology and world-view and will thus favour or interpret things in a way beneficial to capitalism.

It doesn't surprise me that so many tankies are "truthers" when you can't even understand how ideology works, prob because you've drank too much of your own kool-aid.

Good worker.

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North Korea is a right-wing monarchial state that is not capitalist, not socialist, but instead essentially feudal.

It represents the absolute worst possible outcome of revolution, in which structures created to bring about communism instead are used to uphold hierarchy.

Anybody who supports North Korea is a contrarian rather than a socialist.

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I don't see how this is disputable.

North Korea is most comparable to the Islamic State. It's a country that exists in opposition to liberalism, but is in effect unimaginably worse than liberalism.

We need to remember that capitalism is not the be-all, end-all of oppression, but simply the most popular oppressive system in effect today. The systems which capitalism supplanted are generally even more exploitative.

No DPRK is heavily involved in the global financial system, they have the same kinds of Special Economic Zones as Deng's China and have huge money laundry operations.

Exactly this. There will be more of the special zones in the future, too.

DPRK also has a massive worldwide arms dealing set up.

Socialist?
Yes
Marxist?
No
Optimal
No
Does the leadership belong in a gulag?
Yes
Should it be defended from imperialism?
Yes

Defending DPRK from imperialism means defending the leadership of the DPRK (who you want to gulag).

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

Change should and needs to come from within the DPRK. Look at what happened when external elements meddled in Iraq.

and what will this like in practice?

look like* fugg

If you want to know the future, ask Mystic Meg.