'he died for your sins'

'he died for your sins'
what does that even mean? i really don't get it.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Richardson_(missionary)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitutionary_atonement
twitter.com/AnonBabble

In general it refers to the concept of "original sin". Original sin states that every child that is born is tainted with the sin of Eve taking the apple from the tree of in the garden of Eden. God told Adam and Eve not to touch the apples, but Eve did anyway, so God cursed all future humans with death, because apparently before the apple incident, God intended humans to live forever or some shit.

Just go read Genesis from the old testament.

It means you killed God's son you filthy heeb

yeah, but why send jesus to us and let him die?


i did no such thing

Because God wanted a way for humanity to connect to a savior who absolved them of their sin, so they would never forget how humans defied God in the first place. Seeing Jesus die for them and then resurrect was a way to make the people remember the power and ruthlessness of God, willing to let his own son die to make a point.

I don't know why you care so much anyway OP. These are the myths of the bible, not much to pull from Genesis. Although there is a lot to pull from the bible as a whole, morality wise.

so in other words the catholic god is basically just an asshole

i had to go to church every sunday as a child and i never thought about stuff like that. when i started thinking about thinks like this, it made me angry, because they repeated stuff over and over again, but never thought or explained any further.

The myths of the Bible basically have to be interpenetrated as stories of moral guideline or else they never make much sense, even in their own internal consistency. Religion has done much to unite people, but the distancing of God as a 'personal concept' is one of its greatest flaws and for everything good the church has done, it has created misery, prosecution, and corruption. The high and mighty moralizing of those who follow is one of the greatest mistakes humans have made. The good word should be given to people to follow and interpret as they please.

It means god is an asshole and won't forgive you unless he tortures somebody in hell.

Yeah he's an absolute dick.

This x10

what is the moral guideline behind letting your son die for someones sins?

To understand anything in Christianity, you have to accept that God is 100% correct in everything he does. This is not something that sits with me, but it is the reason that the Jesus figure exists in the stories, as he provides the reason God's moral guidelines are to be followed, other than the fact the creator is the 'ultimate power' and he could really just fuck you up. The story of original sin's death along with the death of Jesus is a way to frame the New Testament and the more, well, 'moral' morals it teaches.

i would do that, but he lets his son die just to make a point.. i won't read a book for moral guideline with bullshit like that in it.

Except when he isn't. God admits that he regretted cursing humanity with death after Noah's Ark. God as an absolute power really fails at many different parts of the bible.

Just read the bible but keep in mind what's myth and what isn't. At worst you've wasted your time, but can argue with Christians. At best, you gain a better sense of morality and understand why Christianity has remained prevalent for so long.

That is not quite correct.
Here is the deal:
The tree Adam and Eve ate from was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Prior to that, everything was good. There was no evil. But they ate it, thereby allowing evil into the world for them to know. This includes bodily corruption, pain, death and sin. Humans, from that point on, are sinful creatures and therefore can no longer be eternally united with God as they were prior to the eating of the fruit. God wants to be eternally united with us because he loves us (he made us, after all), but the price that must be paid for that sin is death. However, it gets complicated. because the sin was committed by man, the penalty must be exacted upon man. And since we all are sinful we all must pay. But God sent himself in the form of a man (Jesus) to accept all the guilt and all of the punishment for all people. The thing is that a man can only take responsibility for his own actions, not the actions of others. Only the creator of all people has the authority to take accountability for their actions collectively. But because Jesus was both God and man, he could do both.

That is how that is laid out by Christians, user.

The next question is of course, "OK, so why didn't everybody end up back in paradise when Jesus died? Wasn't that the point?"

Yes, it was the point. Except that God wanted to make sure everybody on the planet knows what happened and has the opportunity to accept it or reject it before calling it a day. Which is why you have Christians running all over the world passing out Bibles and knocking on your door. The belief is that once every single human being on the planet has heard and understood what happened, then God will call everyone who believes back to perfection. In the meantime, we are stuck having to die before getting our "eternal reward" (or punishment, as applicable).

The thing is, with the number of missionaries declining and the number of births continually expanding exponentially, the world will be destroyed by overpopulation long before the work of the missionaries can be completed. In addition, there will always be people too young to understand/comprehend the whole thing. So I don't really know how that gets factored into things.

Right. My point was that you shouldn't believe in the stories as any more than thought-pieces on the world and people. Understanding the Bible as anything other than a set of values by which much of Western society was built in the modern era is pretty silly.


Good point; I was thinking narrowly about judgement. Still, it remains that he is a sole point of authority in morally selecting what is 'correct'.

But there was, it just wasn't known to Adam and Eve. God made everything, including evil.

As decreed by God.


Blatant contradiction.

Look, God is an asshole. The point is, he decided all of this was going to happen. If the myths are to be taken seriously, then God knew the outcome of allowing the tree to be in reach of Eve, which means he also knew that she would also die, and he also knew that he would send his own son to die for the "mistake" that he allowed to happen. All of it reads like some sick game God plays with humanity after you take into account that he is all knowing and all present. This is why I take the mythology of God out of the equation when it comes to Christianity. The myths are outdated and frankly, don't reflect very well on our "loving" creator. At least in the old testament.

You're in debt with him
You should obey us. Since we speak for him

Fear and guilt are a basic with religion

Islam says that Jesus was just a human prophet, and that there is no trinity. It makes more sense.

Originally Christianity was a Jewish sect. They believed that there were multiple gods and that the Jewish people are the product of struggles, mostly involving themselves cheating. This is where original sin comes from. For example, Jacob was a Jewish patriarch, but he was a second son who tricked his brother out of his inheritance, even in the womb.

Jews were also (along with a lot of other religions) practicioners of ritual animal sacrifice. In their cosmology, Jews believe their transgressions are passed on to the dying chicken, snake, goat, or lamb. Lambs are most valued, as they are considered sinless, and the blood of the lambs are thought to be purifying. This is why the Jews said "may his blood be on us and our children", as Jesus the Lamb's virginal, sinless blood would absolve the Jews of their sins and end original sin. This was later misinterpreted as anti-Jewishness (blood libel).

As a gentile, you don't have the same level of sins in question. But as Saul wrote, goyim can receive Jewish blessings by accepting Jesus as their personal god, after rejecting their native paganism. You don't become a full Jew with Jewish bounty, but you get to share what Jesus gets (which is nothing, Jews believe Jesus is boiling in his own shit right now).

it means to blindly follow a religious figure for something you never actually did because christian brainwashing

Autism, rite?

HE WAS LOOKING KINDA GAY WITH HIS BIBLE AND HIS GOAT DOGGYSTYLING TO PLEASE THE LORD

boo

I'LL NEVER STOP COMING AND I'LL NEVER STOP COMING AND I'LL NEVER STOP

Some people talks about reincarnation, but if we are honest even tv talks about God.

Its called freedom tard and he is still taking responsability for that dying and allowing us after that, you are just tipping too hard.

ADL?

So which is it? Are individuals supposed to take responsibility for their actions, or are people supposed to allow "a greater power" to take responsibility for them.

Nice ad hom. I don't dislike Christianity, I see it positively for the most part. The morality it provided essentially built western civilization. However, just because I respect the morals in the bible, doesn't mean I can't call out the bullshit in the myths.

1st thanks for your answer. it sounds really like something christians could come up with. the next question for me is however: why is god so complicated? it also means that god makes mistakes and instead of going back in time and fix things he comes up with this? it sounds more like they've written the old testament and tried to fix in the new testament without rewriting the hole old testament.

Serious question, are you a troll? read your own words:

"The point is, he decided all of this was going to happen…"

He created us as free beings, we did a lot of stupid things, he allowed Him to come to us knowing what will happen, yet He is still ok and He allowed us to just ask for forgiveness and everything is ok, isnt ok? maybe you will just destroy everything and send all to hell, He didnt do that.

Fuck off and learn to speak english before you interject into a conversation, nigger. I'll wait for

So is autism.

...

it means he died so that you can ask him to take sin out of your life and be saved, it means he died to save you from your sins

God is the shittiest admin.

he could have just told me

Please stand and turn to Hymn No. 264, and let's praise Him in joyous song together!

"Open your bowels for Jesus,
Empty yourself in Praise;
As you dwell in His Word,
You'll be undeterred
To open your bowels for Jesus."

Amen & Glory!
Praise him with many motions!
>>>/fart/

Here's my new take on it.

Jesus died for our debts, not sins (cf Gerrman Schuld 'guilt', Schulden 'debt', as already Nietzsche pointed out, also a lot of apparently borrowed terms like Engl. 'shall', German Sold 'soldier's wage', Latin solet 'does regularly' (originally as a duty)).

Christianity is a religion for slaves. Slaves were slaves because of incurred monetary debt, criminal slaves.because of symbolic debt.

God lured the creditors (the Jews (the traditional slave traders) or the Romans, depending on ones view) into a trap, getting them to execute His son as a slave (note that crucifixion was a slave punishment, used also on the surviving slaves of Spartacus' army). With the murder of God's son the creditors forfeited their loans, thus making the slaves free.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Richardson_(missionary)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitutionary_atonement