Bielefeld and the legal status of Germany

Some of you may be aware of the Bielefeld Conspiracy. It arose in the 90s as a parody of conspiracy theories, and alleges that the city of Bielefeld does not exist. It has apparently remained quite popular as a joke in Germany, and has been featured prominently in the city's tourism marketing, and has been mentioned by Merkel as well.

Mocking conspiracy theories and theorists in general has obvious benefits, but I recently realized there is another reason the German government may want to encourage the joke. I've seen a number of discussions on the existence and legitimacy of Germany itself. Specifically, the process by which the Third Reich was succeeded by later regimes is rather blurry and vague. And, the extent of the authority of the Allied powers (mostly the US) over the new government, and their jurisdiction and duration, are not clear. In essence, it is alleged that modern Germany is not a valid successor to the historical nation, and that it differs legally from typical countries as a result.
This is where Bielefeld comes in.
First, searches questioning the existence of Germany will be filled with results concerning Bielefeld. Reasonably-worded searches (e.g. German government successor state legitimacy) will come up with the desired results, but the vast majority of people aren't good at that, and are probably more inclined to search something like "Germany does not exist". This search does turn up many results about Bielefeld, driving relevant information out of the first page.
Second, more than mocking conspiracy theories in general, it specifically mocks the idea of the non-existence of a German place. While any parody theory would have some effect in making the idea that Germany is not legitimate seem laughable, this parody has a very direct and specific relevance. To have anyone searching for information on the real question be confronted with the same idea in the form of satire and mockery will strongly discourage anyone from taking it seriously.

Is it a Pure Coincidence, or am I just looking too far into things?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)
youtube.com/watch?v=2-8gsWZqDBM
hollaforums.com/thread/6877825/politics/bielefeld-and-the-legal-status-of-germany.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

The word you are looking for is "Reichsbürger" movement.

It's like their own Dakota joke
I only know the city because a cult band played there and recorded the concert because they were laughing at performing in an imaginary place

Go ask about that in deutsch/pol/, we have two law students there who can explain why that movement is pointless and has no basis in actual law

But that's the stuff OP is talking about.

I don't know much about the argument at all. I've seen the idea mentioned here briefly, and when I looked it up I happened to notice the Bielefeld thing.
I've never put much stock in the "sovereign citizen" movements, and only entertained the idea that Germany's might be different because of the turmoil involved in the transition. If they're that groundless, then in retrospect this probably would have been more suited to the QTDDTOT.

Which is a retarded German equivalent of the sovereign citizen movement in America or the freemen on the land from the UK. They're basically cargo cult legalists who think they can magical spell their way out from under existing state authority.

The reality is that the only rights that exist are those that can be enforced. At best these movements serve the purpose of making liberals who normally rely on natural rights admit that.

modern austria is not successor to the historical nation (AH empire) ..
does that mean austria is not a real state?

What does it mean to not be a real state? Paper isn't magic.

I really hate liberals, and I mean all of them, not just the liberals on the left.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)

most people think that, if a state has no souvereignty it is not a real state(thats wrong btw).

As long as the majority of people feel they are safer under the current state than risking destroying it, that state has internal sovereignty regardless of what paper says.

No easy way out, bros.

RFN is not legaly a successor state of Third Reich. It's just ZOG zone.

true

thats you

It's a shame.

Sovereign citizen type ideas seem to give people an easy way out because they involve passive resistance. So long as you show logically why the state is illegitimate then everyone can wake up.

That doesn't work. I'd half believe the opposite of what OP says that its actually the Reichsburger and Sovereign Citizen type movements that are designed to distract people from real nationalism and discredit them, leading them down rabbit holes.

it makes them look stupid
and the whole reichsbürger thing is a money scheme(if you want to be a reichsbürger you join a group and you are obliged to buy new documents, like a reichsbürger passport or a reichsbürger id card


one reichsbürger guy even declared himself the king or kaiser of germany…

RFN is not legaly a successor state of Third Reich. It's just ZOG zone.

Both those statements are true, user.

My understanding is that no one that was authorized to surrender for the Third Reich ever signed papers of surrender, even though there was at least one official authorized to do so in Allied custody.
Therefore, under the constitution of Germany, the Third Reich is still the legitimate government of Germany…I think there was even a recent court case which found this to be so.

As more and more evidence emerges, it would seem that the leaders of the Reich, including Hitler, escaped to Argentina. For some reason the U.S. government was aware of this, but chose not to disclose it & arrest them. The FBI had a lead on Hitler in Argentina, but was allegedly told by the CIA to back off & keep it classified. Pics related, FOIA documents found.

Hey slavs. Serious question.
How do you manage to squat like that? Whenever I try I just fall on my back like a faggy turtle.
Some advice on proper Slav squatting?

t. Chilean

That is a skill that takes an entire lifetime to perfect, I would advise you don't continue attempting it without expert instruction & years of practice…you could do severe damage to your calves & haunch section, you may never walk again without infusions of vodka.

Totally convincing.

There are strong indications that multiple Nations got changed into coorperations.
It all started right after the creation of the Fed in 1913 and deserves an investigation.

The initial dilema in Germany was when the weimar republic was proclaimed before willhelm officially resigned.
Weimar, the 3rd Reich and the BRD were all not legit. Prussia still exist to this day with its old borders but is incapable of acting.
The BRD is just continuing the not legit 3rd Reich.
People who say that this theory has no basis is full of shit or never took the time to look through the evidence and how it influenced law making after the fall of the 3rd Reich.

Don't listen to him user, it's very easy.

youtube.com/watch?v=2-8gsWZqDBM

THIS

There was nothing vague and blurry about it. People are just idiots.

The first thing people have to understand, is that while in History its called the German Empire, Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany, they were all the same Nation the Deutsche Reich, the different names just explain the type of Government, but they were never the official name of Germany. From 1871 to 1945 Germany was the Deutsche Reich.

Now at the end of WW2, the Deutsche Reich was completely conquered and the surviving Leaders in charge accepted the total capitulation, even if they didn't sign any documents, they did so by agreeing over radio to the Allied terms, when the Allied in return stopped killing Germans.

With that the Deutsche Reich stopped existing and the land became owned by the Allied by virtue of conquest. Allied in this sense just means the USA, the British Empire, France and the Soviet Union.

This is also why the Allied went after German Companies and Individuals to punish them for the war, because there didn't exist a German Nation anymore for them to sue.

Its also why other Country wanting to see reparations from Germany will never get them, their claims are to a Nation that doesn't exist anymore.

Now the important thing is that while the Allied owned the land, they never could agree what to do with it and so they disintegrated into the East and West Block, each side creating their own Puppet Government(BDR and GDR) that each claimed to be the true successor state to the Deutsche Reich, but this claim was only accepted by their own side.

What happens next is that the GDR over the course of the Cold War became heavily indebted to the BRD, to the point that by the time the Soviet Union was collapsing, East Germany was basically financially owned by West Germany.

However the BDR wasn't a independent Country, but it was a rich Country and so it basically bought itself independence and the right to be the successor state of the Deutsche Reich from the Allies. The details of that you can find in the "treaty on the final settlement with respect to germany".

The problem Germany has today is not its legitimacy, but the fact that the old political Parties are all Puppets of the Wast and East Block, while the Country is officially a sovereign Nation.

The Deutsche Reich changed from a Federal Monarchy, to a Presidential Democracy to a Dictatorship. So why should the Bundesrepublik Deutschland not be legitimate just because it operates like a Corporation?

One could argue its corporate structure gives it a advantage over other traditional Nations, who tend to get fucked by Corporations in this day and age.


Doesn't matter, because in the end Wilhelm II still officially resigned as the Emperor of Germany and as the King of Prussia. Prussia was owned by the King and he gave up his claim to the land.

You are looking just right into things, it's almost word for word what you describe, to cover a true conspiracy make a false conspiracy of similar topics. Works double good with keyword search engines like google, triple good if you're tribe runs the search engine.

No. That's retarded kys

The Nürnberg trials has to be the single best red-pill there is. What a fucking joke.

Why did Cia tell the fbi to back off? Was Hitler a zionist agent all along? How depressing. It's like we're living in some nightmare that is filled to the brim in evil and darkness. Thanks for the post.

Well after WW2, when it was obvious that the Cold War was gonna happen, die US Army created in 1946 the Organization Gehlen, which was basically a intelligence service full of old Nazis who hated the Communist. Its Leader was the former Wehrmacht Major general Reinhard Gehlen, head of the Nazi German military intelligence in the Eastern Front during World War II.

In 1947 the CIA was founded and one part of the Organization Gehlen became part of it, while the other part became the founding Members of the new West German intelligence service the Bundesnachrichtendienst or short BND.

Occuping force doesn not becoming “owner” by conquest, occupiers do by the law of war assume government position in the occupied territory. This doesn’t affect existence or territorial integrity of an occupied state and by the law of the war occupiers have to respect the laws of the land, property etc. as far as applicable in a war situation.
Occupiers do on occasion annex parts or the totality of occupied land, it becomes part of the occupying state, its laws and regulation apply.
The Allies did agree in before in joint occupation regime and rule of occupied Germany, the Allied Control Council or Allied Control Authority, further decisions about Germany, its government, territory should have been made by that body. It didn’t work out, because of divergent interests, still all allies pretended to continue the joint occupation regime at least until 1990.


That is called stealing, looting and is a war crime.

It's easy, you're just not used to it. Keep squatting and as your leg stretches it'll become easier.

This guy's squat sucks. He needs to bring his as closer to the ground.

Ass.*

those guys are faggots, all lawyers are.

What is this shit? Some bit copying the thread?
hollaforums.com/thread/6877825/politics/bielefeld-and-the-legal-status-of-germany.html