FIRCRACKER IN A POLAR-BEAR'S MOUTH

IIRC, they caught them tormenting animals and decided to beat them to death live on camera because everything is extreme in Russia.

oh, I guess that makes sense.

But if you had told me that they were homeless, and squatting on those mens' property, and THAT'S why they beat them to death- I would have believed you.

Do you think it's the environment they grew up in that made them that hardcore, or is it genetic? Most of my family is Slavic, but I think life in Hamburgerstan has made them soft.

They're actually innocent hobos.

liveleak.com/view?i=f8a_1308772420

...

You know who Anonymous is?

Anyone who doesn't give their name.

...

enjoy your estrogen-poisoned soy products while avoiding meat that's essential for testosterone, veganfag
the best thing about you guys is that you're castrating yourself voluntarily

So a crackhead who shot someone in the face for 5$ is worth more than an animal? Animals kill because they are hungry, the vast majority of humans are manipulative pieces of shit who would skin you alive for lulz if they could get away with it. Empathy is linked to intelligence, you are a pathetic fucking nigger, hurrrr I kill defenseless animals look what an alpha male I am. It's one thing to hunt and another to torture an animal for no reason.

Don't mix up your thoughts with your feelings, this is intelligence. Animals are just objects, deal with it.

Obviously you have never owned a cat.

Who told you that garbage? Your womyn's studies professor? Go cry, faggot.

Animals kill for entertainment or to make war all the time. The difference is people are much, much better at it, more populous to begin with, and kill for more abstract reasons.

Imagine if that bear had firecrackers, asshole. You'd be so fucked.

But you are a sociopath (as you know). You're just not a very good troll. Breddy boring, tbh.

i dont give a shit about my health, and i doubt many other people here do
the only time i've ever considering going vegan was for ethical reasons (they taste too good tho)
you wont make us go vegan this way faggot

keked
too much svagger

...

...

Yeah, you cunts just love telling people all about it, don't you? Fuck off and die you soulless hippy faggot.
Guess again.

Only sociopaths and the Chinese feel no empathy for animals. It's part of what sets us apart from that Polar Bear.

...

Nah. You're just a pussy that think his emotions are worth more than his logic.

...

Logic about those firecrackers exploding in a bear's mouth.

Literally the face of stupid

Logic is telling me not to feed a bear firecrackers, Xiao.

No, that video is by the Hammer Maniacs

Why the fuck are Russians such murderous savages?

Holy shit you are so fucked in the head. Enjoy your 'Low Energy' and 'High Estrogen' factor.

That was pretty funny to see that bear do the dance of its people as a parting tribute to the world.

I kind of wish they wouldn't waste it on a bear, though. They could have given that firecracker to some Zetas so they'd execute a whore with it instead of doing another beheading like the one-trick ponies they are.

That cat is sick as fuck

one one hand, fuck those guys for this pointless act of cruelty. I LOVE red meat and support recreational hunting, but i have my limits.

on the other hand… polar-bears are know to attack and kill humans and not even for food. so meh.

Because humans have consciousness of self being. A dog isn't thinking he is a dog, he will believe he is part and family of the pack, therefor if you put a dog with a pack of pandas it will act as them. It's called imprinting faggot.
Humans get education on how to behave properly, animal follow the instinct. If you leave a lion and a human without any interaction from outside, the lion will still be part of the life circle. Human will be a savage
Sure, then why we evolved to have teeth set like bears, and the intestine like lions?
Enjoy a empty life, without proteins

Nice source faggot. Animals kill for territories of the pack, and to eat. Even when they challenge the alpha they get sent away alive

Fun fact: animals evolved to be herbivorous can move their teeth side to side, while carnivorous evolved animals cannot.
the length of omnivorous intestines compared to their torso is 4-6 times larger, whereas for us, it's about 10-12 times larger.

forgot to attach pictures

Orcas kill seals for fun and dolphins kill porpoises for fun. Dolphins even rape other animals and get high.

That being said. Id much rather save a dolphin or whale than a human. The thinking that humans > animals is an extension of special snowflake thinking. Im special because im a human.

vegans should kill themselves

thb I would much have a much easier time killing another human than any animal. Humans are shit. Animals are awesome. People are shit. Don't give me some bullshit about "my tribe". Tribalism is cancer. The majority of people actually deserve to die right fucking now. Useless sacks of shit. You know I'm right.

Nice try tree killer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foods_by_protein_content

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/660S.full

If this is going to be a vegan thread I might as well point out that vegans are the worst moralfags ever to the point where they're constantly trying to get the moral highground even over other vegans.

Sure it starts with changing your diet, but then another vegan comes along and calls you a supporter of animals being raped and killed because of some animal product thats used in something you buy.
Then after spending way too much money on vegan alternatives to the next dozen things different vegans bitched about you realize EVERYTHING has animal products in it because we've always been a predatory species and thats not about to change, so why bother bending the knee to vegans at all when it will never be enough for them?
The answer is you shouldn't bother, these vegans are just a bunch of whiny faggots without a problem in the world and enough money to buy all the vegan trash they want while having the inability to understand that other people don't have that luxury.

Slippery slope is not an argument.

Vegan alternatives and meat imitations shouldn't be consumed all the time, if you're planning to just swap out everything with imitation products, of course it's going to be more expensive.

Like?

Wrong.

That's why we have claws, massive canines, jaws that only move up and down, a lower ratio of our intenstines compared to our torso, a large mouth opening and faster digestion, right? Oh, wait…

Pic related, I've had loads of vegans bitch over different things on here.

Also we don't need huge claws and canines to kill things because we've had a huge intelligence compared to other animals for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
We made tools to kill the animals and made fires to cook the meat and our bodies have adjusted accordingly over countless generations.
You vegans are fucking retarded, theres a reason the only place vegans exist is in the upper classes of first world countries.

Nigger when did I say anything about ethical veganism? I'm talking about health here.

Precisely, we have no adaptations for eating meat because we didn't evolve to do it.

Which is why we get diseases that only herbivores get, such as atherosclerosis, right?
I'm currently paying off my college debt, went to a public school, grew up with divorced parents, but I guess I'm upper class because I'm vegan. What's your financial situation user? Lets see who has it better and by what margin.

I don't care if you're talking about health, you asked me to show you what vegans are bitching about and I showed you. I'd like the think despite being vegan you'd be smart enough to know you can't speak for all vegans and theres plenty of them that bitch about animal products in general and would claim the moral highground over you just as you do for the rest of us.

Do you have any idea how evolution works at all?
If what we did as a species is kill our prey with spears and cook our meat before we ate it we aren't going to need intestines or canines like a lion.
If you're trying to claim that we as a species were herbivores until the modern era then you are beyond the amount of retarded I can reason with.

Maybe you are just that retarded though considering you're living a vegan lifestyle despite being in debt already.

As for atherosclerosis I did a whole few minutes of research and found that carnivores do in fact get it as well when fed a plant based diet.
Not that I even need to add this since you've mysteriously stopped responding in the face of someone whos wise to vegan bullshit but a final nail in the coffin doesn't hurt.

Fair enough, though I don't share much in common with other vegans apart from diet, the same with all the other vegans on Holla Forums I've spoken to.

If we are evolutionary designed to eat meat though, we would need a larger stomach compared to the rest of our digestive tract to enable us to eat more meat in a single meal, like naturally carnivorous animals do. Also, by having intestines which are longer, our bodies are forced to deal with the cholesterol in animal products, as opposed to carnivorous animals which are able to quickly get out of their system.
I never claimed that. The fact is, our ancestors didn't live as long as we do, maybe to their 30s if they were lucky. By this time, they already had fucked, and passed on their genes, which had no adaptations for dealing with things such as atherosclerosis, which we see in people now due to our longer lives.

Good thing we're not carnivores then.

Jesus Christ I'm sorry I'm not sitting in front of my computer 24/7 waiting for your reply, I got other shit to do as well.

We're designed to eat both meat and plants, I could spout the same line of shit about why we don't have multiple stomachs like a cow so that proves we should only eat meat and it would make just as much sense.
Its clear our body isn't adapted for only eating meat or only eating plants, we're omnivores and have been since the beginning of humans at the very least.
If you want to try and eat only plants good luck to you but most vegans go back to a normal omnivorous diet in the end.

Usually vegans are the type to sit around arguing for hours on end like I do so I'm not used to one disappearing for an hour and coming back.
Unfortunately though you're just like vegans in that you talk shit like saying "atherosclerosis only being in herbivores" and just hoping the person you're talking to won't actually do the research and find out you are indeed just talking shit.

Oh look, its the same sociopathic piece of shit that was calling people faggots for not liking animal abuse in that one thread a few days ago.

Because we don't have the same evolutionary history as cows. Find me a primate with 4 stomachs.

I never denied that human's haven't eaten meat, I'm talking about what we ought to be eating for optimal health, and atherosclerosis in humans being caused by cholesterol is just one reason why veganism is the superior diet.

Not an argument.

Usually vegans are the type to sit around arguing for hours on end like I do so I'm not used to one disappearing for an hour and coming back.

Mind posting the article on carnivores getting atherosclerosis? Sounds interesting.

fuk i got the greentext the wrong way round on the second last one

Why don't you find a carnivorous primate with claws and huge canines while I'm looking for one with 4 stomachs.

I honestly don't know if a vegan diet is the healthiest diet since its pretty much a new fad and there hasn't even been a lifetimes worth of research to determine it.
What I do see though is tons of people who used to be vegan talking about how much better they felt going back to an omnivorous diet after being vegan for months or even years.
Just search "quitting veganism" on youtube for the endless wave of people talking about how good it is to not be vegan anymore.

I'll admit the american diet has way way too much meat in it but the solution isn't to be vegan thats for sure.

Oh and heres one of the articles I came across about atherosclerosis
second-opinions.co.uk/we-are-not-herbivores.html

What kind of frog is that?

the rare kind

It's hard to find a direct comparison, as primates aren't designed evolutionarily to have a diet like other carnivores, this is the best I could find though:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarsier
The adaptations made to eat insects obviously wouldn't compare to the adaptations to hunt antelope, deer, etc.

It's not really a fad, the term was coined in 1944, and I believe vegetarianism has existed since ancient history, could be wrong though, haven't fact checked it. I can think of one study, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies, but it is true that vegan diets are lacking in long term research, and hopefully this will change.

You'll find plenty of people saying they feel great after becoming vegan, this way, in both vegan and omnivorous cases, there's no way to tell who is being sincere and who is exhibiting confirmation bias.

Although I consider veganism ideal, I think that promoting hunting/fishing as a way of obtaining meat would improve the health of America (and The West) drastically as it forces people to go outside, basically limiting meat consumption to how much effort they put into getting it.

Unfortunately I can't find the studies referenced in the article about atherosclerosis in regards to carnivores, but it seems to be saying that when fed a diet not suited for them, carnivores developed it. It also agreed with Robert's article in saying that dogs, cats, lions etc. don't get atherosclerosis from cholesterol, whereas herbivores do when consuming cholesterol and animal fats, so from there it goes back to the argument of if humans are evolutionarily suited to be omnivorous or herbivorous.

Can't find much to disagree with here, I guess time will have to tell if veganism is really worth it or not but for now I'm just sticking to a healthy omnivorous diet and not an american diet.
That to me seems like the most important step because americans just don't eat healthy in general.

thats just fucking cruel, no other way to put it

i ain`t no vegan but seriously some people have mental issues

GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE

fuck you fgt whats wrong with liveleak?

Checking that 1776 get.
Comments like this make me cringe. What am I supposed to gather from someone stating the fact that they're repulsed by animal cruelty? Lots of people are repulsed by animal cruelty, it doesn't make you look like a better person to agree with those. It just means you're a decent human being, which shouldn't beta praiseworthy or deserving of commendation. This adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and it just takes up time, effort, bandwidth, electricity, material used to produce that electricity, calories that you burned while typing that, and the oxygen that you inhaled while typing that. The world would have conserved much more resources had you not existed for the minute you spent typing such a mundane reply. In fact, the world would be better off had you not been born. More trees would've been saved, more food would be in existence, less shit would clog up sewer systems, and your parents would be much happier and successful had you not taken the effort to fertilize your mother's AIDS ridden snatch just to shit out another normie.
But, I agree, they're dickheads.

...

what. seriously what

legit whats wrong with it fam

half the shit on liveleak is super tame youtube cancer too

>swimmin' through the water, gunna catch me some b8

...

...

well it doesn't matter as long as you recruit them, if they try and leave after that you can chop their head off :^)

have you ever even spoken to a real muslim?

Is it true or false that the later things the prophet says cancel out the earlier things?

Yes actually.
I asked them if that bit in the quran about them lying to non-muslims for personal/muslim gain was true and they confirmed it was.
That was all I needed to know about muslims.

That is true, here is a collection of Arabic to English translations of the verse which you are mentioning corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=106

If someone was about to make a bad decision, and they weren't listening to logic as to why not to do it, would you let them do the bad decision, or try to save them by lying to make them stop?

if you have to lie then you aren't the one using logic, you're the one making the bad decision.

Is it true or false the Quran is published in order by the date of Mohamed's statements?

This kind of sociopathic rationale makes Islam look even worse. Not than it needs your help to do that of course.

you're assuming everyones in their right mind which isnt true, sometimes you need to lie to convince them in their mind

i do not know this, sorry

this video is given no context so i dont know what point you are trying to make

...

they throw like a bunch of fucking girls

...

...

You should probably learn enough about what the Quran says to debate us ignorant bigots before you start trying to convert us.

The fact that you think there needs to be a context for a 19 year old girl getting stoned to death to see something wrong with it is proof enough that you're the one that isn't in their right mind.

brenn i helvete, ditt forpulte, sædgurglende svin

Bullshit! no pussy pass. If she's a murderer and the penalty is execution then do it.

you are correct, i do need to learn more, but i will not stop spreading islam

what if she had committed adultery?

bork bork bork

youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo

...

In what context is stoning a young girl to death appropriate?
I'm sure in the warped mind of a mudslime there is a justification.

What a waste.

...

So what if she had committed adultery? In the western world we can't even agree if ANYONE is deserving of the death penalty.
Killing someone because they got raped is just downright barbaric and don't even lie and say that isn't what you fuckers do because I know damn well what "adultery" means to you.

shes an adult and i dont know the context ffs u tell me

ISIS are not representative of most muslims

idk if she had murdered someone or something else that islam prohibits

dutch or swiss or finnish idk, one of those scandinavian ones

nah, you are right, mate - most mud- muslims are upstanding citizens

and look at the west, degeneracy abound, dont say u are any better at least we are maintaining and spreading our culture because it is resilient and proper for functioning societies

Yes, 19 is very young.
Whats it like being a subhuman?

You're maintaining your culture because you kill anyone who disagrees with you.
I'd rather live with degenerates than have my head chopped off if I have the wrong thoughts.

...

Speaking of…

please don't

these are a minority and muslims despise them for slandering the name of the prophet (saws) and muslims

if someone had murdered someone you loved or torn your family apart through adultery maybe youd change your mind

ISIS =/= islam

I don't buy it. They've got Islam in their name for crying out loud!

So you're saying you disagree with the quran when it says that people who leave islam should be beheaded?
I'm pretty sure disagreeing with the quran gets you beheaded too so you'd better turn yourself in, if you're a real muslim that is.

you know, i think you are trolling us. you almost had me fooled there.

usa has united in it but half the country doesnt even want donald trump are the states still united???

you've misinterpreted that verse learn arabic so u understand

Okay but what about Saudi Arabia? Because they do the same shit. How about Iran? Because they do it too. Sudan? Afghanistan? Stop me if I mention one that doesn't execute women for being raped

He doesn't need to learn Arabic to observe how it's actually practiced in Muslim-majority nations.

fuck saudi arabia theyre puppets to the united states

just because some people claiming to be muslims are bad doesnt make us all bad

Care to interpret it yourself then? If death isn't the punishment for apostasy then what is the punishment?

i thought most of you were from Holla Forums why are you anti islam we are similar in ideology, hitler even said that muslims and natsocs could coexist in seperate societies, we both dont want israel so focus on what we have in common

"some people" like every single Sharia law country?

I'm not anti-Islam, I like most parts of Islam. I'm anti-some-faggot-lying-about-Islam

sharia law is the ideal system for a perfect society, the only reason it is bad to you is because ISIS doesnt implement it properly, true sharia is perfect

daily reminder that islam is the worst death cult in history

If you want to talk with the retards on Holla Forums then why come here?
Just go to Holla Forums and they'll polish your knob for talking about how much you hate jews.

No no, not ISIS.

Every. Sharia. Country.

USA is worst death cult see what they did to the middle east in a couple of decades

...

Nice deflection, but what the US does doesn't make Islam any different.

is youtube embed gone for anyone else?

nah, just for the mudslimes

why are you so islamophobic?

“A word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons.”
— Christopher Hitchens on islamophobia

hitchens was anti israel and anti zionist, take a page out of his book in that regard too

you think i give a fuck?

you should consider his opinions on other issues rather than just quote him for what he agrees with you on and ignore what he doesnt agree with you on. You're probably jewish anyway

This nayzak guy that made all the anime propaganda you're spamming is a gold mine, thanks for sharing.

the people posting in other threads isnt me, im only posting in this one

when he's right he's right

yw tho, i hope more people will spread the word of The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Heres some more accurate propaganda for you to spam everywhere, though in this case accuracy may not convert as many people as lying to them would.

...

do you even know what taqiyya really is or did you watch some sargon of mossad video about islam and make that your opinion?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

ITS LITERALLY SO WE DONT GET PERSECUTED BY PEOPLE LIKE DONALD DRUMPF ITS FOR OUR OWN PROTECTION, IS THAT SO BAD???

If you were telling the truth right now it would be fine. In practice you say you're a peaceful religion, and then start setting up Sharia Zones where you try to enforce Sharia law upon democratic countries who didn't vote for it.

If muslims were the majority in the US instead of christians you would have trump beheaded.
You people NOT being persecuted is bad.

stay salty towelhead

if an area was only populated by muslims it makes sense they can determine the law there
i dont remember you all coming to america and following native american culture so why force us to do the same?

Nice deflection, but what happened in America has no relevance to the value of Islam or Sharia law.

And no it doesn't make sense, that's what democracy is about. If there are enough of you to influence federal elections then do that, just like everyone else trying to change federal laws. Until then fags are welcome to walk the streets, rape is judged by evidence, and no you damn well cannot tell other people how to dress.

they were barbarians - just like you lot.

ᚼᚱᛆᚠᚿᛆᚱᚿᛁᚱ᛬ᛉᚢᚿᚢ᛬ᚼᛆᚠᛆ᛬ᚦᛁᚴ

Us persecuting you doesn't involve chopping your heads off, so yeah it is okay when we do it.

Different poster but how can you defend the terrible thing the Quran says about polytheists and how they should be treated? Coming from a polytheist, of course. I know quite a bit about Islam and have a copy of the Quran in my drawer right now. But Muslims have always had a hatred towards those who worship multiple gods.

dubs

shut up and play this game y'all

Barth2032

fuck off

Ah, I smell a Norse brother in the midst.

fuck off and play agario you casual ass nigger

The Americans didnt follow rednigger culture because they replaced it with something much better.
All you have is cousinfucking, beheadings and hatred for everyone who doesn't worship your moon idol and pedophile prophet.
So don't whine about us cracking down on your worthless "cultural" proclivities, the best thing for humanity in general would be to kill you all.

Eat shit, mohammedan faggot.

dubs

I don't play agario.

Heill ok sæll!

you spam barth everywhere including in the pictures of you playing agario and you really expect me to believe you when you say you don't play it?
This is supposed to be an anonymous imageboard for a reason, if you weren't such a retard I wouldn't even know you played agario.

why should a muslim town have to live under the law of the towns surrounding them? if there's more muslims in a town somewhere it makes sense they can decide how they live, like democracy on a smaller scale, its undemocratic that a bunch of non-muslims in washington decide how muslims live elsewhere

kek, paganism, even christians were able to rek u guys, sry but why are you worshipping a defeated religion with gods who didnt even protect u?

idk, probs cause polys were the first enemies of islam that stopped it from spreading

Because its the UNITED states of america, it can't be united if one state is backwards as hell where they're forcing children to marry middle aged men and decapitating anyone who isn't in their religion.

Far from it - Norse paganism never died, & it is gaining more & more traction with new heathen temples being built.

May our people find their way back to right thinking kick these slimeshits out of our side of the world. I was nice enough to the guy and in one breathe he goes to talking shit about our people and customs. Fucking kunta. Take your Islam and keep it among your own. Kill each other for another 1000 years.

california wants to secede, texas hsa wanted to secede, why cant all muslim americans move to say, washington, idaho, oregon, montana, wyoming, north/south dakota and nebraska and secede there? whites can even have an ethno state in vermont i'd be fine with that.

theres a reason no muslims care about paganism anymore, its because we dont need to. patheos.com/Library/Answers-to-Frequently-Asked-Religion-Questions/How-many-Pagans-are-there says theres about 3 million pagans worldwide and i think even thats very generous, why do 1.6 billion muslims care?

im sorry if you were being respectful, a lot of people weren't and i wrongly assumed you were just one of them

He wouldn't know. His whole world is Islam and he can't see beyond it's borders.

please check out >>>/islam/ if u have any questions and remember to be respectful :)

Nobody is going to secede and nobody is going to let your cancer spread here like it has in europe.
We know exactly what you're trying to do, you aren't fooling us.
You think we're just going to watch your savages rape and pillage europe and say "you know what, we need some more of that in the US"

...

I don't give a fuck that you people don't care about paganism anymore, & your argumentum ad populum can go fuck a goat.

Just because there is more of one group does not make it superior to another. Our pagan traditions are woven throughout European culture in endless ways. And more and more people are opening their eyes to the old ways. I do not need your approval to find pride in my pagan religion simply because it is small. My pride is found in my people, my ancestors, and my actions. You, seemingly, need other's approval to feel a sense of contentment.

no i just dont want faggots from here posting their tranny porn on probably the only good board on this website that hasnt been tainted yet

why are you proud of your ancestors if they betrayed your ways and became christians? are you proud of those ancestors?

"When you recognize evil, speak out against it, and give no truces to your enemies" - Havamal
Remember to always keep your spear at hand when away from home, brother. Both physically and against stupidity such as that seen here.

Okay this has got to be some quality bait because nobody could be stupid enough to advertise a board on Holla Forums and not expect that board to get flooded with degenerate shit

Are you implying they had a choice?
Also, they still kept the myths alive, retelling them to the next generations, keeping old customs alive and well through the centuries.

So are you saying that pagans also have taqiyya? They can pretend to be christian to live?

im just providing a place for you to direct your hard questions,the brothers there know more than i do

No, I did not say that - read what I wrote again.

The Christianization of the Norse people, as it was with many cultures, a complicated thing. If they truly believed in that religion and lived an honorable life then they were good people in my eyes. Do I believe they should have resisted more? Yes. But history is what it is. They are my ancestors regardless of that. My brother is my brother regardless of what he believes, so long as his actions are right. They kept the traditions alive in many ways. They had a Christian god but pagan blood. I don't expect you to understand, seeing as how you think Islam is a magical religion with no wrongs or competitor.

they obviously didnt keep their myths alive, all the books about paganism were written by 13th century christians, and i doubt many christians know anything about paganism - because it wasnt kept alive

genuine question out of interest to all pagans posting here: do you have long hair with a mid part and/or listen to metal and/or hate your parents?

fair enough. we had competitors, but then we got rid of most of them, still a few left tho

If I didn't suspect you to be a troll, & you asked nicely, I might have given you a proper response. As it stands, you deserve nothing but contempt.

You are a literal idiot. I'm surprised you know about most books being written in the 13th century, so i'll give you that. But you're still a fucking idiot. There are plenty of older sources. Some written by the people themselves, others by visitors or observers. I mean, this shit dates back to Romans observing customs of the Germanic tribes and earlier. If it was truly dead we wouldn't be speaking of it. Point is, you're an idiot, and speaking out of your ass to a person that has studied this for a few years now. The Muslim guy has more guts than you.

because islam encourages knowledge, thats how i know, also i am the muslim guy throughout this entire thread

deflection

Do you happen to be a part of any related organizations? Ex: Norskk, Asatru, Volk, ect. ect.

No. I left the state church when I was eighteen. I am not a member of any religious group.

>respond to my obvious bait!

It seems i've given you too much credit then. You went from insulting to apologizing to an idiot troll. Remember Allah is watching, don't step out of line or you may find yourself stepping into eternal flames.
Oh and by the way, your meme hurt my feelings, i'm sad now. I need to retreat to a safe space. Fucking kunta.

how can u have room for so many gods but no room for Muhammad?

you're right tho, obvs. im not a real dunecoon, nice shitposting with u.
paganism doesnt seem that bad tbh, not for me, but it'd be my pick if i had to be religious

Fair enough. I'm American if you couldn't tell. Family has been here for generations. There's plenty of communities out there of like-minded people if you're ever interested. Though, i'm sure you know that already.

I live in rural Norway so there aren't any local Norse pagan groups close to me. I don’t mind though, & I’m not much for socialising in any case.

youtube.com/watch?v=NCXKF2xwh3Y

I figured the Norway part with the state church and the language. That's nice, though. I live in Chicago so i'm the farthest from rural you can get. I'd like to move somewhere with land and nature eventually but at the moment my whole life is here, I can't see it being anytime soon. Most of my knowledge is idependent research, and a lot of it, that was inspired by learning about my people. I have so many books lol If you ever get interested I recommend Norskk as a group to learn and practice. I could give you a lot of information but I recommend just looking them up yourself if you feel you'd like. They look very commercialized but don't be fooled, they're genuine. Anyway brother, it was nice spotting a friendly face in this thread. Also unexpected. But i'm signing off now so, until next time. Far vel, my pagan-hearted friend.

No thanks, I'd rather leave everyone alone and in return they leave me alone. Not trading one bullshit tribalist group for another.

If you do plan to move, I’d suggest Iceland. I think Norse paganism stands strongest there out of any country today. Also, there isn’t as many non-Europeans there as in the other Nordic countries.

Even as rural as my home is, there are many ‘refugees’ here now. The local municipality bought the neighbours house, so I’ve got muslims in burkhas & their flock of kids as my closest neighbours.

I have amassed quite a collection of books on the subject as well. And there are a wealth of texts & videos available online. I am working on a new translation of the poetic Edda from Old Norse into Norwegian & English, along with my interpretations of the poems. I know of Norskk, but I haven’t looked too much into them yet, they do seem like a decent bunch though.
I can recommend Maria Kvilhaug’s work on Norse paganism – especially her video-series ‘Hidden Knowledge in Old Norse Myths’.

Fare well.

Why do we have the enzymes to digest meat?
Our canines and jaw strength has shrunk over the course of our evolution to accommodate the growth of our brains, there is no evolutionary benefit for an animal that can cook and prepare hiss food with knives to have big canines.

The reason people that way though is because we cant fully understand animals when/if they try communicating with us

These are real faggots. And those who like this stuff, should be punished by death.

Humans will only evolve into interstellar race when we are free of our animals cruelties.

I liked watching that video because from what I read about the context, they stole dogs from the local village and ate them. If this isn't the context, then of course it's different, but to the best of my knowledge it is, so top fucking kek.

oggaa bongaa bixnood

They did nothing. It's the Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs from Ukraine who tortured and killed a bunch of innocent people for their own pleasure. Even if they did eat some fucking dogs they didn't deserve having their brains liquefied by some mentally ill cunts with hammers

Do you have a source confirming it, like some local news? The comments I saw on liveleak were mostly contradicting but the majority seemed to indicate they had done something, and in the beginning of the video they were zooming in on dog carcasses.
If they'd just eaten dogs I'd agree, but as best as I know they took them from a local village, they were people's pets, and they reacted to it the same way anyone who had respect for members of their tribe, their community, would - setting an example and carrying out revenge.

Yeah, no. That's pretty much muslim logic

Monkeys have huge canines you dip shit

evidence?

You actually reduce your testosterone levels by consuming animal products, and PHYTO-estrogens from soy don't activate estrogen receptors in your body- in fact- they actually help estrogen clearance.

"A British Journal of Cancer study of 696 men (233 of whom were vegans) concluded this: “Vegans had 13% higher T [testosterone] concentration than meat-eaters and 8% higher than vegetarians.” Not only did vegan men have as much testosterone as meat eaters, they actually have 13% MORE of this manly hormone.Aug 14, 2014"

Who are you getting your dietary advice from, Joe Rogan? lol

It's a harsh punishment to ensure that no one messes with you again. If I killed your dog, that is, a member of your family who you love and care for, would you not wish the same upon me out of revenge and to set an example?

We don't, you shit-head.

Truly omnivorous animals produce the enzyme uricase to break-down uric-acid from meat. . . humans do not, that's why people get gout.

Humans produce salivary amylase, an enzyme used exclusively for breaking-down carbohydrates (plants). Truly omnivorous animals, like bears, have no enzymes in their saliva.

This is the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Even our distant ancestors from the Miocene era lacked large canines- and even if then, large canines don't connote meat-eating. The animals with the largest canines on planet earth are herbivores.

Your bile is too weak to stop cholesterol from crystallizing- that's how people get gall stones. (BTW, as humans we synthesize our own cholesterol- a trait exclusive to animals that don't need to eat meat)

Your stomach acid is significantly weaker than any predatory animal.

Also, you can feed an indefinite amount of cholesterol and saturated fat to a true omnivore or carnivore, and it will never develop atherosclerosis or amyloid plaque.

There's a reason nations with higher rates of meat consumption have higher rates of heart-disease.

No. If you raped and killed my child I probably would though

If it was just my dog, cat or guinea pig then I'd only want to see you beaten up badly but with no serious life threatening injuries

oxy-moron

Consuming uric-acid, saturated-fat, and cholesterol is not healthy.

We evolved with animals such as dogs being part of the tribe; they see us as part of their own family, it's why your dog would die for you if you were getting attacked (if it's a proper dog at least, not sure about the tiny kinds).
The least you could do is reciprocate the love that your dog has for you and send a message to anyone else who would think of doing something to any other member of your tribe. If you can't understand this, you're disconnected from your instincts.
Sure, laws may make it more ideal not to do this, but from an moral point of view I see it as justifiable.

Hey, gotta have those tendies, right?

But should I feel bad for the polar-bear?

It's not part of my tribe- and it could easily kill me and my family.

Bleeding to death from a broken jaw is hardly a good-way to die, but I don't feel bad for the bear. . . does that make me a psychopath?

Also, how did they even get the bear to eat the lit fire-cracker?

I'm not talking about the polar bear, I'm talking about the people who (to my knowledge, and if they didn't we can consider this to be a hypothetical) killed the dogs of people from the village, which is why they got killed in retaliation.

But what if you come from a lineage that never had domesticated dogs?

If you have a pet dog, it's still part of your family, your tribe. Honestly, you're saying that you place more value on the lives of some hobos who killed your dog that your dog's life. Why should you care about them, especially considering what they did?

just dropping here to say russian people harming a bear reaches memetic levels of betrayal

at least animals aren't regularly shitheads, fuck people

not all humans are part of the tribe.

Competition is competition- human or otherwise.

yes, pain is pain regardless of species.

Precisely, which is why I don't get why you think killing the hobos in retaliation is somehow an overreaction? You have no duty to them, they have only inflicted harm upon you, why take mercy?

I bet you wont say that shit while you're in a hospital bed- or after a natural disaster.

You wouldn't be alive without people, animals (excluding ones necessary to certain ecosystems) are worthless by comparison.

and love is love regardless of age or orientation, right?

You sound like a liberal.

If you feel just as much empathy for a predatory animal as a member of your family, you are genetic-trash.

I feel empathy for people close to me and my domesticated animals- anything else is pathological.

you say that like being alive is something I should desire

it is, but love and sex are not equivalent, that one being permissible should permit the other. Thats a completely different issue anyways.

Oooh, existential.

Srsly tho- this argument is fucking retarded.

Loving someone means wanting to set them on the right path, not enabling their self-destructive behavior.

Enabling people to break-off their branch of the family tree and engage in stuff like chem-sex and bug-chasing (homosexuals) is not love- it is infatuation mixed with moral indifference.

(Heterosexual love can be just as dysfunctional, but it is not inherent in it like with homosexuality or polyamory.)

But I should expect no less from a waster like you.

That bait

and who said anything about enabling self destructive behavior? You're putting words I did not type into my argument. But then what else could I expect from another shithead human.

You implied it when you conceded that homosexual "love" is equivalent to heterosexual love.

"it is, but love and sex are not equivalent, that one being permissible should permit the other. Thats a completely different issue anyways."

Yes, because a dog or pig would have much better arguments. . .

You sound like a mental-patient.

a dog or pig would at least not put words in my mouth in order to win an internet argument.

You are an unbelievable faggot.

Of which I've done no such thing- you believe that heterosexual love is equivalent to homosexual love, which is inherently enabling self-destructive behavior.

You can't just claim that I'm putting words in your mouth when I extrapolate the result of what you endorse. I even quotes your post where you agree that "love is love, regardless of age or sexual orientation"

Your back-pedaling is pathetic.

Homosexual love is not inherently destructive, you are assuming a fact that does not exist.

Ending your genetic lineage is destructive you fucking mong. So is a prolapsed rectum, and reviving diseases eradicated since antiquity.

nigger we have 8 billion people on the planet, if anything it'll help the rest of us out.

it is destructive to oneself and ones family.

Don't try to weasel out of this.

You are destroying your own lineage by engaging in homosexuality.

Is it, or is it not self destructive?

Shit slav vid missed the firecracker going off

It is not. Ones lineage and family is not ones self. Those are all other people. Besides that, your family is in no way entitled to children from you, if anything giving up your time and resources for the sake of a non-existent obligation to ones relatives is the more self destructive choice.

Not every homosexual man is an only male child.

In fact, parents to have homosexual children tend to have more children to make sure some of their children go on to reproduce themselves.

Yeah I totally want to feel like death and shit 3-4 times a day because some vegan started with the conclusion that "vegan diets are more healthy" and then looked for studies that agree with the conclusion.
I could do the exact same thing and start with the conclusion "proper omnivorous diets are perfectly healthy" and go looking for studies to support my conclusion and I'd find plenty but I'm not a fucking retard and actually understand how science works.
I'm going to wait until theres actually a significant amount of research into if vegan diets are actually healthy in the long term, and not make a drastic life changing decision based on some studies that say my sperm isn't the best it could possibly be because I drink milk.

Seeing the results of countless people trying vegan diets and not being able to take it anymore because they feel so drained of energy and hungry all the time even though they shit 3 times a day is proof enough to me that its not worth trying considering theres no long term studies that even remotely prove a vegan diet is any healthier than a proper omnivorous diet.

Thankfully my oldest sibling had four so the burden is not on me.

You make me sick, hedonist.You are demonic.

Give me the email address of your grandfather. I want to send this to him so he knows what a selfish faggot you are.

The very fact that other children have to b productive on your behalf proves how worthless the homosexual is to his family.
He is a blight on his lineage.

Maybe you should try seeing past your most basic of instincts and realize that passing your genes on to the next generation is the least important thing in a world where overpopulation is a growing problem.

Of course it would be a christfag who thinks like someone from the 1500s.
I don't understand you, why should what he thinks about me not having a grand kid even matter, its not really any of his business what I do with my body in the first place.
Either way, personal freedom will always come first as far as I'm concerned.

This is sub-nigger logic.

Yeah, just ignore the growing number of vegan athletes, and the Seventh Day Adventists and Thai Buddhists who have the lowest chronic disease rates, and best longevity, of any population.

If a person feels constantly hungry on a vegan diet, they're clearly fucking retarded.

All you have to do is eat a sufficient amount of starch and vegetables. Like you can't eat oatmeal and a fruit smoothie for breakfast without dying of starvation. Like you can't figure out how to steam rice and stir-fry vegetables.

Read some population-studies shit-head. You'll find very quickly that the populations with the lowest meat, dairy, and egg consumption have the longest life spans and lowest rates of chronic-disease. Didn't you ever hear of the Okinawan Diet?

No one is gonna read all that shit, nigger.

Overpopulation is only a problem in the third-world.

Who would you prefer inheret the earth?

Life is competition, and it tends only to be people who live in cushy first-world nations who justify their fagging-off and killing their branch of the family tree with this "over-population" bullshit argument.

Either way, personal freedom will always come first as far as I'm concerned.

Because without them, you wouldn't exist. By ending your lineage you are spurning their sacrifice. You are such a selfish, spoiled little piece of shit. If everyone around you believed what you believed, that personal freedom and autonomy trumps all responsibility to your family- what would happen to your nation?

Theres way more to it than diet, and even ignoring that you're cherry picking athletes and saying "look how healthy these athletes are, see how great veganism is!" theres way more healthy athletes that thrive on a proper omnivorous diet like humans have been for hundreds of thousands of years.
Theres also populations that survive on diets consisting of mostly non-vegan foods and they aren't at great a risk for things like cardiovascular disease because they have a proper diet and exercise.

Its almost laughable that you'd compare a population of vegans who are actually mindful of their diets to somewhere like america where they're just constantly stuffing way too much food in their face all the time and never exercising and you have the fucking balls to say its the fact that they don't eat meat that makes the vegan population so much healthier.

What sacrifice? Nobody asked them to have a child, and it wouldn't matter to me either way since I wouldn't exist to complain. They procreated and undertook the responsibilities of childbearing voluntarily and for themselves.

We would die out in a generation, but we would have a blast doing it.

Anything to spare your ego, right?

I replied to a post that was just as lengthy as my own.

If you'd rather cover your eyes, and make-believe that everything you believe is right. Just leave and go listen to a Joe Rogan podcast-

What if everyone around you believed that popping out a dozen children and ensuring their family line survived was the most important thing in the world and nothing else mattered, what would happen to your nation?

No one. We all need to die out.

No, it is because I'm not a fucking autist.

Holy shit- this rationale. How do you not see what a wasteful piece of shit you are?

You must live such a life of luxury, no one who suffers even a modicum of toil, anyone who had to work for what they have, would maintain this death-worshiping hedonistic ideology.

Your ancestors are writhing in their graves.

most relocatable post I've read for a while, applicable just about everything wrong with me.

fucking typo suggestions, relatable*

...

i just tested it on some other websites with spellcheck and google thinks relatable isnt a word

No, you people are the selfish pieces of shit. People who think like you try to rationalize stealing a slice of a life that is not their own, and fuck what the person who owns that life thinks. I have no responsibility to procreate, that's something you made up. My ancestors are long dead, having lived their lives they have no right to decide what happens to mine.

Wow, you sure showed me.

Read that back to yourself.

You sound like a wanna be cool-kid who just got caught making-out with an obvious tranny, and is now desperately trying to defend his reputation by hurling lame insults at the people who caught him in the act.

There is no need to be upset.

Yeah respond to the person calling you an autist and not the one actually calling you out on your bullshit.
Fucking vegans, every time.

You cant even repay them what they did for you. Your parents should have put you up for adoption instead of giving you a life of comfort and opportunity- which you happily squandered.

Maybe if you were an orphan, adopted by a child-molester, you could feel justified in living a life of hedonism.

You are infinitely selfish.

telling me I'm wrong without providing any evidence, and then calling me autistic, is hardly "calling me out on my bullshit."

I provided studies from accredited medical journals, you were unable to do the same, so you claimed I was cherry-picking to spare your ego. Forgive me for thinking you were the one unwilling to read my post. The mentality is identical.

There is no such responsibility, like I said, you made that up. They chose their lives and I chose mine, its perfectly fair.

Okay wheres your evidence that shows in a lifetime a vegan diet is healthier than a proper omnivorous diet?
Oh wait you don't have any of that, all you have is petty bullshit like a 2% increase in testosterone or sperm being slightly better that doesn't justify completely changing your lifestyle in any sense.

When your parents were raising you, do you think they wanted this from you? They sacrificed their time and energy, not solely out of selfish desire, but because (unlike you) they knew the difference between right and wrong.

You are a leech.

If you keep saying that maybe it'll become true someday.

Way to ignore everything regarding cholesterol and heart-disease.

Like I said before. Population studies will set you straight. Read "The China Study" by Dr. T. Colin Campbell

Look into the Seventh Day Adventists, the Okinawans, Thai Buddhists, etc . . .

There's a clear correlation between diets low, or lacking, animal products and a reduction in chronic disease/premature death.

The studies I posted regarding the mechanisms of action prove causation. The correlation is obvious- if you didn't notice before now how the children of families from places like southeast-asia and east-africa, who immigrate to western nations and indulge in the Western Diet, tend to become much fatter and sicker than their parents - you must be living in a bubble.

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/526S.full

nutritionstudies.org/masai-and-inuit-high-protein-diets-a-closer-look/

tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2009.10718117

Giving up already? I guess it's to be expected from someone with your moral character.

We're going in circles, there's not much point in trying.

I argued my point, you're acting like I've said nothing.

Do you honestly believe there's no such thing as familial responsibility?

Don't you see how immoral it is, what you're advocating? Or are you stuck so deep in your existentialism that you don't care what your parents sacrificed their time and energy for, sodomite?

And once again you compare populations that are mindful of their diet and exercising to populations like america where they just stuff food into their faces and never exercise and come to the conclusion that it must be americans eating meat that causes them problems.
You're drawing conclusions based on absolutely nothing, there are no vegan studies done over a long enough period to prove that an omnivorous lifestyle is unhealthy.

Not the guy you're arguing with, but considering that he's presented loads of evidence for the benefits of a vegan diet, and your refutation of this is that a healthy omnivorous diet is just as good, could you provide some evidence of this, considering you're the one claiming it? You're literally asking him to make your argument for you if you don't.

I'm not the one demanding people change their entire lifestyles because the way humans have eaten for hundreds of thousands of years is apparently flawed and we just haven't figured it out until now.
I'm not trying to convince him to eat an omnivorous diet, hes the one trying to convince others to eat a vegan diet.
What you're saying is "you can't prove god doesn't exist" tier.

This has nothing to do with intentions, it's the fact that you're making the claim that omnivorous diets are as healthy as vegan diets when properly planned. If you can't provide evidence for this claim which you're making, stop making it.
Allow me to go full autist as I define Hitchen's razor for you: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

So we should all become religious since we can't prove that god doesn't exist right?

Do you have selective blindness? What about the study regarding the Masai people- who run all day and eat very low-calorie diets?

Is your argument so fragile that you have to chalk everything up to exercise?

thank you, this is how I should have articulated my argument.

Are you trying to say that americans eating meat has more to do with them being unhealthy than the fact that they never exercise?

Just as religious people claim God exists, you are claiming that omnivorous and vegan diets when properly planned are equal. You are the one being irrational, but your head is so far up your own arse that you don't realise it.

You might as well call atheists irrational with their heads up their ass because they claim god doesn't exist without evidence as well while you're at it.
I'm not about to just listen and believe vegans when they tell me their lifestyle is so much better, the research they come up with so far is on par with religious peoples "research" to prove their gods, just petty bullshit that doesn't add up to the claim they're making.

Because atheists are responding directly to the claim that God does exist. The vegan provided evidence for a vegan diet's health benefits compared to an American diet, never saying anything about properly planned omnivorous diets until you brought it up. As such, it was your claim. You need to provide the evidence in order to validate it. If you can't do this, concede that you know shit all about how a debate works and stick to YLYL threads; they seem to be more your caliber.

Their rates of heart-disease certainly depend on it. You can't exercise-away atherosclerosis.

A population that eats a whole-food plant-based diet, and doesn't exercise, will still be healthier than a population who runs daily and eats the Standard American Diet.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0753332205800101

note the endurance runner group and sedentary vegans in the second study, in corroberation with the data from the first study my claim is easily demonstrated.

Being a sedentary Vegan is healthier than being an exercising meat-eater.

So when atheists respond to religious claims that god exists by saying "god doesn't exist until you prove he does" thats simply a response that needs no evidence, but when vegans claim their diets are superior and I say "omnivorous diets are just as healthy unless you prove otherwise" suddenly I'm the one that needs to supply all the evidence or I'm wrong?
Go fuck yourself.

If you actually read the article about the masai you linked me to you'd see that you can indeed exercise away atherosclerosis in a way.

"And what about that previous, imperfect assessment of heart disease? Dr. Mann, who published some of the early research, did an autopsy study of 50 Masai men and found that they had extensive atherosclerosis. They had disease (coronary intimal thickening) on par with older American men. Over 80% of the men over age 40 had severe fibrosis in their aorta, the main blood vessel from the heart that supplies the rest of the body with blood. Yet there were no heart attacks shown on autopsy and these men still had functional heart vessels without blockages because their vessels had become larger. Researchers thought this might have been related to their rather extreme daily physical activity."

So tell me then, smart guy, what kind of evidence ISN'T petty and worthless?

You must have a LITANY of evidence to prove how healthy your diet is.

You might as well be covering your ears and shouting in order to justify your diet.

Just ignore all the medical organizations that have acknowledged the connection between meat-consumption and heart-disease since the 50's.

"What's that, the head of the American College of Cardiology is vegan himself, and promotes the diet for reduced risk of heart-disease?– IT'S ALL PSEUDOSCIENCE LALALALA"

meant to post this as well, list of medical organizations I was referring to:

Its no secret that americans are eating way too much meat and thats leading to heart disease, but thats not proof that getting rid of meat entirely is the way to go.
You have yet to prove that vegan diets are the best diets, the only thing you're proving is that americans have poor diets which is fucking obvious to anyone with a brain.

You don't seem to understand that you are the one who claimed that properly planned omnivorous diets are just as healthy as vegan diets. The vegan never claimed that, just that vegan diets have health benefits compared to an American diet, which he provided evidence for. I already said this in an earlier post, and it's becoming clear that you're not interested in having a rational discussion and would rather stagnate the conversation by repeating your earlier debunked talking points.

As are you, like I said before my claim that omnivorous diets are the same as vegan diets until they can prove vegan diets are the healthier option is no different than an atheist claiming god doesn't exist until the religious person can prove he does.

So what about that study regarding the Masai and Inuit people I posted?

They aren't eating nearly as much as Americans, and they're still dying of heart disease.

Also, I love how whenever someone is forced to acknowledge that eating meat leads to heart-disease they go for the "everything in moderation" argument.

You should include cigarettes in your daily routine, everything in moderation, right? Gotta get that vitamin N!

There is no necessary nutrient exclusive to meat, dairy, or eggs that one cannot get from plants. Meat, dairy, and egg consumption leads to chronic disease- and it is an entirely unnecessary part of your diet. You have no reason to eat it beyond tradition and custom. (and perhaps hedonism, if you really enjoy the fatty taste)

InB4 B12, it comes from anaerobic bacteria- it is not synthesized by animals.

Hardly the same when you dismiss all evidence contrary to your belief as "petty" despite it being of the highest quality.

You're, very clearly, just defending your ego at this point.

No they aren't dying of heart disease, I just showed you a snippet from the masai article that shows their high amount of physical activity increased the size of their blood vessels which prevented them from dying from the atherosclerosis that they did have.

If its the highest quality then why can I completely tear it apart like the masai article this one guy is clinging to?
As for the studies behind paywalls I'm not about to open my wallet just to debate some smug vegan on the internet.

Let me lay it out real clear for you:

>Faggot: Omnivorous diets when properly planned are just as healthy notice the lack of evidence
As such, the faggot (you) must provide evidence to progress the debate.

>Jew-on-a-cross worshipper: God exists notice the lack of evidence
Notice how the Christian, similarly to you, does not provide any evidence for their claim.

Use scihub to get around paywalls

Except christians do provide evidence, its just inherently flawed and doesn't add up to the claim they're making, much like you vegans which is why I made the comparison.

Nice false equivalence, if Christians were providing links to scientific research papers to prove that God exists, you may have a point.

Do it then, don't ignore the Inuit-half of that article.

very few of them are behind pay-walls, you are ignoring the majority of the studies I posted. Your dishonesty, and lack of contradictory evidence, is blatant.

also, see this

What is the flaw in these studies?
You keep saying the evidence doesn't stack up, but you can't tell me why.

In addition, you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary- and if you did, they'd obviously be "petty" by your own standards because the studies I'm posting are cohort, metabolic-ward, population, and meta-analysis studies. the gold-standard of nutrition studies.

I only ignored the inuit half because only the masai were mentioned and theres no point wasting time reading the part that the vegans don't even feel the need to address.
You clearly haven't even read them yourself which is why I was able to quote the article itself and debunk you with it, so why expect me to do it all?

I've seen plenty of christians trying to debunk science using science but no matter how hard they try it will never add up to proving god is real just like vegans citing studies that say animals being injected with hormones is bad doesn't add up to meat being terrible and the vegan lifestyle being the best.

I don't, at lest not in the same sense that you seem to. Responsibility is a thing one exercises towards all equally, I consider it simply taking ownership of ones choices and their foreseeable consequences. Other people, such as my family, are likewise solely accountable for their own choices. For things I did not ask for, I owe no debts - the consequences of giving are the choice and therefore responsibility of the givers.

Because your claim is that the vegan diet is better but all you have are little tidbits of info about how drinking milk may decrease your sperm count or eating meat might reduce your testosterone levels by 2% or other petty bullshit that doesn't justify completely changing the lifestyle humans have lived by for hundreds of thousands of years.
As for the population studies you've clearly shown you don't even read them yourself and when I took a cursory glance at one I was able to pull out info that debunks your own claims about veganism and supports mine about having a proper omnivorous diet with exercise being healthy.

I've seen plenty of omnivores trying to debunk science using science but no matter how hard they try it will never add up to proving eating meat is good just like Christians citing studies that say God is real and the Christian lifestyle being the best

you can't just flip flop the circumstances and pretend its the same, omnivores aren't making extraordinary claims, an omnivorous diet is just a normal diet that humans have always lived by just like not believing in god is normal for humans therefore claiming there is a god is what requires evidence and not disbelieving in one.

I can though, everything you said was anecdotal, just like when I reversed it. Both are invalid. I'm still waiting for the evidence you need to provide proving the merits of a planned omnivorous diet compared to that of a vegan diet, which you have conveniently forgotten to do over and over. I wonder why?

Can you honestly not see how you're acting exactly like a religious person?
I'm asking you to prove that vegan diets are superior to omnivorous diets and all you do is say "well you can't prove omnivorous diets are superior to vegan diets!"
You make veganism seem like a religion and you aren't going to convert me without evidence.

You're not asking me that, you're asking the vegan that, which I personally believe he has done, but ultimately it isn't relevant to you and me. I'm asking YOU to back up your claim that omnivorous diets properly planned are the same as a vegan diet health wise. I haven't made any claims ITT, you have though, and I want you to clarify them for me. If you can't do that, why did you make the claim to begin with? Did you just hope no one would question you for evidence?

How am I supposed to do that when vegans don't even have the evidence to show how vegan diets compare to omnivorous ones at all? Veganism is just a recent fad, theres no data to work with in order to prove omnivorous diets are better than vegan diets.
I said omnivorous diets are the same as vegan diets until they can prove otherwise for the same reason that an atheist says god doesn't exist until you prove otherwise.
Veganism being the superior diet is the extraordinary claim that requires evidence, what about this do you not understand?

So you admit you don't have the evidence? Why didn't you say that however many posts ago when I first inquired? Now you just look like an even bigger faggot for dragging it out for so long when you had nothing to back up what you were saying.

I've been comparing it to saying "god doesn't exist" this entire fucking time you retard, are you under the impression that theres evidence to support god not existing or something because let me reassure you theres no way to prove god doesn't exist with evidence.

Yes, and that's a false equivalency because you are the one making the claim, not me, I just want the evidence for it.

See the dumbed down version of what you're doing here, because you clearly didn't read it the first time:

we've already been over this, just read the fucking response chain to the post you linked again if you're having trouble.

We have been over it, and I have read the response chain, and I noticed a distinct lack of you not posting the evidence for the claim you made.

WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY PLEASE BE PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED

We haven't been over it and until you post evidence we won't have been over it. That's literally all I want from you. Argue about veganism and Christianity with someone else, I just want the proof for your statement.
Considering you're probably trolling, this will be my last reply until you either redact your claim or provide evidence for it to prove otherwise. You've derailed this conversation to a point where it's not even about the evidence and where you're just posting MS Paint edits as though they add legitimacy to your constant deflection.

You know I really won't be surprised if veganism becomes a full fledged religion with how you people treat discussions about it.
I start the discussion asking for proof that the vegan lifestyle is best and end with people saying "WELL YOU CAN'T PROVE THE VEGAN LIFESTYLE ISN'T THE BEST" over and over again exactly like a religious argument.

Oh and just a side note you should take some pointers from the muslim spamming anime propaganda from earlier in the thread because even that retard made a better case for converting to islam than you retards made for converting to veganism.

Proof that eating meat and dairy raises your estrogen and decreases your testosterone isn't enough for you to give them up? Are you a wannabe trap?. Do you enjoy the idea of having gynaecomastia and impotence?

Also, you're ignoring the studies regarding heart-disease and lean-tissue retention at old-age.

Oh, so it's the amount of time that determines it? Then let me point out that the majority of our deliniaion from our most recent common ancestor with other great apes was during the Miocene Era (a period of many millions of years.)

The diet of Miocene-Era hominids was nigh exclusively plant-based, with less than 1% of total calories coming from meat- and there was no dairy consumption. (According to the majority of evidence)

jstor.org/stable/20486180?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

jn.nutrition.org/content/127/10/2000.full

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajp.1350300305/abstract

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664199/

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22607578

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11288049

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442166

Please actually read through all of these studies and consider their findings in corroboration with one another. The last 3 are of the most importance.

POINT IT OUT THEN

Also,

I have read the entirety of theses studies. Your cursory glance at one study is hardly proof of my failure to provide evidence.

This equivalency shit is becoming more and more irrelevant as it progresses.

Bottom line is, vegans have provided scientific evidence, in the form of cohort, population, metabolic-ward, and meta-analysis studies, from accredited medical professionals in attempt to show meat-eaters that eating meat raises risk of heart-disease and causes hormone disruption-

Meat eaters have provided no studies, no hard evidence, only anecdotes, that NOT eating meat is bad for one's health- but have not defined what the detriments are beyond "feeling weak and hungry"

Claiming that the burden of proof is on vegans is ridiculous, because we have already provided thorough evidence for our claims, and claims by meat-eaters that these studies are bogus have NOT been backed up by any description of specifically WHY the studies' methods or conclusions are faulty.

For this to continue, meat eaters must either show, with specifics, what methods of each study are faulty- or provide scientific studies by medical professionals or organizations of the same accreditation that show the opposite result to the studies posted by vegans.

Simply claiming, "I don't have to do any work, I know I'm right" and providing anecdotal evidence proves only that you are lazy and dishonest.

In the case of a religious argument, the proof isn't nearly so palpable.

please read

A 2% decrease in testosterone isn't worth completely changing my lifestyle and going against the normal human diet thats served humans well for as long as we've been human.

If we stayed being 99% vegetarian forever then we would never have developed into the humans we are today, you should be fucking ecstatic that we're an omnivorous species because if we weren't you'd be naked in a jungle cracking nuts with a rock like other primates.

The only thing your studies have proven is that americans are eating too much meat and that injecting animals with hormones that we then eat probably isn't a good idea.
None of your studies even come close to suggesting that the vegan lifestyle is the superior one because veganism is a fad that hasn't even been around long enough to even start making those kinds of studies.

Its not our job to do all your work for you, if you want people to become vegans then YOU have to do the heavy lifting and show us without a doubt that veganism is superior which you have not done in the slightest.

I'd much prefer to go by the anecdotes of countless people who tried the vegan lifestyle and absolutely hated it than just listen and believe that veganism is the best.

see

Don't forget about the increased estrogen, as well.

Also, how is removing one item from your plate and replacing it with another changing your "entire lifestyle"?

The human diet has varied drastically over time and between nations- this postulation of yours is meaningless. Also, define "served us well"

Provide scientific proof in the form of studies or anthropological data like I have, or be dismissed. You are making wild postulations with ZERO evidence.

smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-fire-makes-us-human-72989884/

This article from the Smithsonian Institute mentions how the ability to cook starchy root-vegetables, a reliable source of high-calorie high-carbohydrate meals (remember that the human brain uses, exclusively, glucose as its fuel) meals, had more to do with our development than the supplementation of our diet with meat.

If meat is healthy, then how can one eat too much?

Also, there was a study mentioning the high rates of cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis among the Inuit- and not all the metabolic-ward studies took place in the United States.

The majority of the studies I posted regarding hormones in animal foods were referring to the NATURALLY OCCURING steroid hormones in animal-products. It's obvious you didn't actually read the studies. Also, in the study you were referring to regarding decreased testicular function, the culprit was expressly mentioned to be cholesterol consumption- which is inherent to animal products.

The human body synthesizes its own cholesterol, there is no need for dietary cholesterol.

themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/cholesterol.php

Studies demonstrating that eating animal products results in cardio-vascular disease and poor hormone regulation IS proving that a vegan diet is healthy. A vegan diet is simply a diet that lacks animal products. If you remove the components of your diet that cause disease, then obviously your diet would be healthier as a result.

Southeast-Asian Buddhists have been practicing this diet for centuries. The population studies in Dr. T. Colin Campbell's "The China Study" (which you obviously didn't read) also shows examples of Asian cultures, like the Okinawans, that followed diets in which less than 1% of total daily calories came from animal-products. Additionally the study follows the Okinawan people as they began to eat a more Westernized meat-rich diet, and logged the effects on their health and rates of heart-disease.

I've presented all this to you in previous posts, but clearly you've not read it. What's your goal? You're clearly not interested in actually having an honest debate about dietetics and nutrition. Do you hate the idea that you could be eating a non-optimal diet? Would you rather we just keep this to ourselves so you don't have to have your beliefs challenged?

The irony is palpable.
Read your last lines back to yourself, does that sound scientific?

You're favoring anecdotes of random people with no medical or scientific background, that favor your opinion, while totally ignoring all scientific evidence brought your way by the opposition. You're just as bad as a social-justice warrior who denies the biology of sex and race in favor of his personal opinion, backed up by the anecdotes of people with no scientific credibility.

Yeah because its just as simple as just removing one item from your plate and replacing it with another right?
Oh wait almost everything has animal products in it be it food or not, being truly 100% vegan is impossible and just changing your diet to be vegan alone is incredibly hard which is why 10% of americans have tried veganism but only 2% are actually vegan still.

I'd say being omnivorous served us well because we're the fucking dominant species on the planet who can bend any other species to our will or just make them extinct if we want to.

You keep asking me to provide studies and read studies like I can do all that and at the same time hold a debate, you already have all your studies laid out to just spam with every post you make.
I haven't made my life about veganism, I don't have any studies laid out waiting to get into a debate with a vegan.
With the skimming I've been doing over the studies in between posts it seems to me that you just hope that whoever you spam these studies at will just take them at face value and not look into them at all.
It seems to me by all these studies that eating meat alone isn't the problem, the problem is the overconsumption of meat just like anything else.
The fact that you say "if meat is healthy how can one eat too much" unironically boggles my fucking mind, too much of any food is bad for you.
The solution to the problem is to eat a healthy balance of foods with exercise.
All you've done is say "look at all these studies showing an overconsumption of meat causing problems, clearly if we got rid of meat all together everything would be great!"
Except there haven't been any studies done showing that the vegan lifestyle is healthy, you're just assuming that based on studies showing an overconsumption of meat causing disease.

Do you only eat processed food? Do you never eat oatmeal, or fucking vegetables. How constipated are you, jesus. I'm actually worried about you at this point.

What does that have to do with eating chicken chicken tendies with BBQ sauce instead of steamed rice and vegetables? This is a nonsequitur.

Not to insult anyone's cat, but I don't see a correlation between meat-eating and global domination. . . or intelligence.

WTF, no one is expecting you to reply promptly. Read the studies, find your evidence, then come back later. 8ch is slow as fuck, it'll be weeks before this thread is pruned.

That's the opposite of what I want. If you can refute all my evidence, and prove me wrong, I'll start eating eggs and bacon again. This isn't a moral crusade.

That's not true. At least, not in the same way that it's true with animal products.

Eating steak and eggs for breakfast every day for a year will increase your risk of heart-disease. Doing the same with Nuts, seeds, legumes, whole-grains, fruits, and vegetables will not.

If you can find evidence that eating too much celery will give me a chronic disease, please show me. My goal is health.

Please take some time to read the studies I've posted, they simply compared people eating their normal diet to people eating a vegan diet. They did not artificially manufacture a situation in which participants were made to eat over-normal quantities of meat. Also please read "The China Study" by Dr. T. Colin Campbell, the studies in that book look at a lot of populations who, at base-line, eat significantly less meat than Americans and Western Europeans.

Do population studies showing health over generations of people who eat different (some vegan, like the Seventh-Day Adventists, who have the worlds lowest rates of heart-disease and incredible longevity) diets not count?

What kind of study are you looking for, precisely?

I want you to know that this is, nigh ver-batum, the argument Phillip-Morris used to discredit the notion that cigarette smoking causes lung-cancer. It's difficult to study a person from cradle-to-grave and take note of every possible risk-factor. Phillip Morris used that rationale to claim that there was no way to prove that a tobacco-free lifestyle was healthier. It is a fallacious argument.

Please read the China Study, please look into the work of Dr. Caldwell Essylstein, Dr. Neal Bernard, Dr T. Colin Campbell, Dr. Milton Mills, Dr. Michael Greger (I recommend looking up Dr. Greger first, he has a youtube channel) and Dr. John A. McDougall.

I'm not expecting you to come to any conclusion now. Please, take some time to at least get a feel for the rationale of these very smart cardiologists and physicians. I'll check the thread every few days and keep it bumped.

God bless you.

I eat a good variety of foods and don't have any problems shitting unlike all the vegans I hear complaining about farting all day and shitting 3-4 times a day which sure may not be unhealthy but who the fuck wants to be shitting 3-4 times a day?

I think theres a pretty strong link between predators and intelligence, herbivores generally aren't known for being the smartest in comparison to carnivores.
Add the ability to cook your meat before you eat it and it seems like common sense that over thousands of generations that would contribute to a growing brain beyond what even other predators are capable of.

You might be able to consistently check this thread for days on end waiting for a response but I don't exactly make a habit out of spending most of my weekend debating veganism, I very sporadically visit Holla Forums in general let alone keep up with a conversation over days.

Its pretty safe to say that obesity isn't healthy and you can be obese even if you aren't eating meat, its just a lot easier to overdo it with animal products because you get so much out of so little in comparison to plants.
I'm not stupid though, I hear from plenty of vegans about how they hate how much they have to eat every day just to maintain a healthy diet so its no coincidence that you don't see any fat vegans.
But that still doesn't mean you can just eat all the vegan food you want every day and it'll always be healthy.

I'll look into the studies outside the US but I just can't take the ones based in the US seriously when a "normal diet" consists of eating way too much animal products as it is.
As for the china study though just googling it came up with a bunch of dissenting opinions about it and I'd honestly rather read those since they don't involve buying a book first.
I'll probably end up reading into this one but don't expect me to write a review about it days later or anything.
rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Great apes and elephants aren't smart?

4real? Beyond dolphins, how many carnivorous animals can rival the intelligence of koko the gorilla or an african elephant?

Dude, this isn't helping. This wild postulation, sometimes in direct conflict with scientific evidence. Please draw the line of reasoning between eating meat and growing a brain. I know a lot of educational videos from the 80's suggested that, but there's really no evidence to support that thesis. Modern science points more in the direction of cooked starches being the calorie source that allowed for larger, more energy consuming, brains to develop. Starch, in the form of root vegetables was a much more reliable source of calories in the environment where anthropologists and evolutionary biologists believe humans first harnessed cooking.

Was there something wrong with the Smithsonian article?

Given the length of this exchange, I think that's a lie.

I think you just don't want to talk to me any more.

Good luck, what would an obese vegan be eating? Would he be eating whole packets of oreos, and washing them down with bottles of olive oil? Do you remember the BMI graph I posted earlier showing the average BMI of vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters? I'll post it again.

That and the IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor 1) that you get eating meat and dairy. It literally makes you gain weight without needing to eat more. All mammals use this hormone in their milk so their young gain weight faster.

Higher estrogen levels also make you gain weight- and you get an awful lot of that eating dairy-products AND meat.

There are a lot of fat-fucks out there who would like to be able to eat more while still losing weight. I consider it an added bonus.

Ok, you're kind of refuting your own argument here.

Hungary eats more meat than the U.S. per-capita, just saying. The U.S. isn't the freak show people make it out to be when you look at the stats.

I know, I've read most of them. I have yet to find one by a registered medical doctor, or one that uses actual studies and evidence on par with what's in the book- and usually the blogs trashing the book are trying to sell you supplements or diet plans. . . usually a red flag.

I think there's a free pdf of the book floating around thepiratebay. But I'm also pretty sure most of the information is on Dr. T. Colin Campbell's website.

Make sure to check out the other doctors too, Dr. Essestyne is an old cardiologist who reverses people's heart-disease through diet- he shows the radio-cardiograms of his patients too. It's neat shit.

Are great apes and elephants not an anomaly when it comes to intelligence in herbivores? As far as I can see its the carnivores that have the most intelligent animals, having to hunt for food isn't really comparable to eating grass all day in terms of how smart you have to be to get by.
For example when I watch nature videos of lions herding water buffalo in order to separate the young its not really the water buffalos intelligence that I admire.

I'd like to keep going but I have shit to do that requires a good sleep, like I said spending my weekend debating veganism isn't something I make a habit of and I'm not about to wake up first thing tomorrow so I can hop back on Holla Forums and continue arguing about veganism again.
You might be lucky enough to have that kind of free time through the week but I don't.
I'll definitely look more into the studies and books you linked but considering the amount of disagreement I saw when simply googling them I don't see myself being too swayed.

Yes, but the majority of the worlds animals with the highest IQ's are frugivorous or herbivorous. Mainly the different lineages of great apes.
Socialization aids in the development of intelligence just as well, if not more-so, than the need to hunt. A fish can hunt.

I have a job and I go to school. I'm not suggesting we do this every day, holy shit. I'm suggesting you read some of the stuff I posted whenever you've got free time. That's all I'm asking.

Just follow the best evidence, use the scientific method, don't fall for fallacies. Whatever conclusions you come to I'd be happy to listen to.

Good night, dude.

If it didn't want to eat it, it could have politely spit it out into a napkin.