Getting interest in ham radio

So much for my short-lived interest in ham radio.

Other urls found in this thread:

cryptomuseum.com/crypto/codebook/
defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Drapeau-Dukes/DEFCON-22-Drapeau-Dukes-Steganography-in-Commonly-Used-HF-Radio-Protocols-UPDATED.pdf
www2.htw-dresden.de/~westfeld/publikationen/westfeld.ihw06.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

There's an exception if you're sending commands to a satellite, but yeah. Technically you can send encoded messages, but the decryption keys have to be on public display or some bullshit like that.

There are people trying to get this changed, especially so they can use WPA encryption on the hinternet.

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You are probably more private speaking in the clear on some HAM channels than on this site for example over SSL. I am getting my HAM license soon btw, know any decent radios? My uv-5r gets barely any signal.

Fills my heart with an monotonous languor.

>not being >>>/cyber/ as fuck
OP confirmed for beta cuckold

Has there been a court case on this? Because I'm wondering if getting the FCC to file suit on me and then going along for a wild ride with the EFF on my side is worthwhile for my otherwise worthless life.

Are you trying to make an analogy? What exactly is the argument here? I guess the analogy (?) would make sense if using encrypted channels on the internet was illegal and the only websites you could go to on the internet were five sites.

Why not just use subtle codes that sound innocuous, like "Meet with Barbara on Friday. Bring hotdogs."

If you do that, make sure your secret code is actually subtle. Like, Barbara shouldn't actually refer to someone, and Friday shouldn't actually refer to a day.

Hotdogs can mean hotdogs, though. That's okay.

nb

Analogy? Hell no. Hard equivalence. Ham Radio is intentionally the way it is because it was developed by grown-ups who had to manage a globally-shared medium that is extremely susceptible to interference and abuse. Encryption is not only illegal in a lot of places, it invites criminal and anti-social elements who would saturate the medium and make it unusable-- consider how Ham has transmission power limits-- Random Q. Criminal would just ignore those... and the entire planet loses a frequency (and its side-bands).

Australia's Antarctic expeditions were big on those, with radio being their only link to the outside world. Sending personal letters back home would have a bit of random codebooking just so the entire world didn't hear about your family life.

Nice b8 m8 8/8.

Meet with = Go to
Names= Global co-ordinates (in decimal degrees) with different names meaning different numbers
For example,
Male Jewish name=0
Male British Name=1
Male Russian Name=2
Male Mexican Name=3
Male Nigga/Gangsta Name=4
And same thing for females, exept with 5-9
With something like, Grandpa/Grandma as a period
Meanwhile, something like, "Don't Forget" would work as a Cardinal direction, like
Don't Forget = N
Remember their names = S
And
Wait, lemme check if I'm pronouncing this right = E
Also, uhh... = W

So,
"Meet with, Don't forget, Lil' Brown, O.G-Bunga, Grandma, Big D, Iceflick, and Aliza Shekelstien. Also, uhh... Duncan Wellington, David Goldenberg, Marisa Gutierrez, Your Grandpa, Tyrone da Oh gee, Jorge Guzman. Bring Hotdogs."
Would translate into...
Go to N44.445 W108.435. Bring Hotdogs.
CIA, Hotdogs is not a euphamism for bombs, alright, I'm not going to bomb a church in the middle of the town of Burlington Wyoming.
Anyhow, for someone who doesn't know the code, the first section just seems like your grandma and this jewette are going to be gangbanged by nigs, second part seems like an oddball reunion.
Whatcha fags think?

Also, if any one of ye faggots live there, mind explaining to me what those circles are?

Shit, might've wanted to put grandpa in the first one, that way, it seems like your grandpa's a gangsta mofo pumpin the ass of some jew bitch

I like it. Though I'm sure you can find old codebooks out there from the pros, that would likely be very useful to learn from.


Those circles are from crop waterers, dunno their real name. It's anchored on one end, the water source, which the entire pole revolves around, watering everything in a circle. There are some advanced set-ups that water in more convenient squares/rectangles, but these circle ones are cheap.

Ah, thanks, I'm just a city slicker so I had no idea what they were

If youre not getting any signal what you need is an antenna not a radio

ITT: lids everywhere

Former city slicker here:

Those are called pivots, or circle pivots. You find them where there is enough groundwater to support pumping a lot of water.
They can be any size, but in the US they are often 1/4th of a mile long, and thus irrigate a circle within a 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile of property. This is the most economical and practical size.

There are extra long ones that can cover an entire mile by mile square. These are only sometimes used, as they can produce more problems than they solve.

Most of the pivots I dealt with have nozzles on hoses that run down as close to the crop as possible, to reduce evaporation. The flow rate of the nozzles are graduated along the pivot so that the same amount of water is being put on along the entire length. Nozzles closer to the outside have to throw out many more gallons per minute, as that part of the line is travelling faster relative to the center of the pivot.

To grow decent corn under a pivot on a standard piece of land in kansas, you should have a well capable of pumping at least 700 gallons per minute of water.

The corners are generally a different non-irrigated crop (refereed to as dryland).

(checked)

Thanks for the explanation.

On topic, here's some codebooks that may or may not apply.

cryptomuseum.com/crypto/codebook/

That arrangement is not the most economical. The rows should be staggered so as to fit the circles closer together.

What a surprise. As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.
I'll say it again, this is the most economical and practical size.

If anyone who isn't a faggot is curious why, I can explain it, but it basically comes down to how sections of land are divided up legally in that area, who owns what land, and issues of water rights and pumping limitations.

defcon.org/images/defcon-22/dc-22-presentations/Drapeau-Dukes/DEFCON-22-Drapeau-Dukes-Steganography-in-Commonly-Used-HF-Radio-Protocols-UPDATED.pdf

www2.htw-dresden.de/~westfeld/publikationen/westfeld.ihw06.pdf

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing

And yet here it remains not being used.
When you stop trying to be clever, and start exercising some reading comprehension skills, you just might be able to go back and figure out why this system is the one being chosen by tens of thousands of farms across entire states, from one end to the other.

What exactly would you use encryption for? Unlike the internet there is no available method of secure key exchange, so you'd only be able to use encryption with people that you organized with either in person or over the internet. It would be comparable to encrypting the contents of your posts on an imageboard so only you and your friends can read them, while everyone else has to deal with your shit clogging the board.

Its because they divided the land into squares, its a legacy system. You don't understand why this arrangement is not the most efficient so I will explain it using the wikipedia article that you could not be bothered to read.

We all get that its more efficient. Its just that its impossible to do in a crop situation when your land is right next to everyone elses and the circles are so big.

You've never used DDT, haven't you?

Mind explaining how your obscure acronym that turns up no results related to amateur radio or encryption is?

No, because I'm already convinced now that this conversation is going to lead nowhere and that there's no chance that either of us is going to change our mind. You're probably already convinced that encryption is solely a spamworthy/criminal activity, and I sincerely doubt anything I say/do will change your mind, and I sincerely doubt anything you say/do will convince me of that what I've seen magically is that (despite the fact that we're posting on boards that allow VPNs, aforementioned DDT stego traffic (which you've apparently never noticed on the boards, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised because to you encryption=spam), and Tor posters). We're both locked in our intransigent ways, and you just came here to yell at me for something that in your mind is only used to:

- sell drugs
- yell allahu akbar
- throw pedo links
- launder money
and
- spam viagra ads

So why fucking bother?


I said no, and went on to all of that, so 10/10 you rustled my jimmies, good job, you win I guess. :/

rustled pretty bad considering he just asked you to clarify an acronym

It's been a while since I've heard about it and I never got into it. Generally encrypted radio traffic is not like DDT and is comparable to people making posts that are just garbled text, or for a closer comparison, encrypting their posts when using IRC on a server with very limited amounts of channels (as the frequencies for amateur radio use are limited, especially the ones capable of being used over longer distances).

I'm not. I'm just explaining the reasoning I've heard with a bit added from personal experience researching encryption and radios capable of it. I'm honestly interested in what people who complain about the lack of encryption on amateur radio frequencies want to use it for given the extreme limitations when compared to other common uses for encryption (as it ends up on the hosting your own private Freenet network for your friends level of limited, except with just voice and text and no practical file hosting).

Isn't banning people from speaking in code unconstitutional or something like that? Why is encryption legal on fiber/modem but illegal through the ether?

because the FCC are actual jews, you cant swear over ham either. and pretty much anyone who uses ham radio, will turn anyone in who isnt doing it "right" or who doesn't speak in the right lingo.

its kind of ironic since the way ham radio operators speak is almost totally in code, a normal person has no idea what QRF and 73's mean, shit like that. they are full of themselves

"What a disorderly arrangement. These people are completely ignorant of space war tactics. What! Thats Zors battle fortress but whats happened to it?!"

whatever you say bud.

I'm glad you agree

The reason to want encryption is so you can have a conversation with someone without someone else listening in.

Why do you not want someone else to listen in?

Why, it's none of anyone else's fucking business!

My personal woes are none of their business. My insecurities are none of their business.
My fears are none of their goddamn business.
And I can't fucking think if I have to worry about what a fuckton of unknown audiences might think about it. I can't have anything that approaches a fucking ephemeral conversation online without encryption.

Encryption lets people be human without a million fucking social pressures from countless listeners and endless scrutiny being factored in.

But why use amateur radio for that? Why not use one of the many other more suited methods of secure communication if you're worried about others listening in, such as whatever you're using to do the necessary key exchange? I'm struggling to see the point in turning amateur radio into what would basically be a short range cell phone service that only works for calling people that you've interacted with previously, as opposed to meeting new people and talking with groups of people.

Why not use amateur radio for it? If I meet someone over it I want to have a more personal conversation with, why do I need to shift mediums to one that is far more aggressively snooped upon by countless third parties?

I like the thought of a more localized means of communication that is broader than face-to-face but isn't like the Internet where everyone from fucking Feds to commercial entities want to strip every semblance of dignity from every single person online?

And ultimately, again - it isn't any of your business what I want to do on it. I am not the great communicator. I often make extremely politically incorrect comments to the point where I don't know how to speak to most fucking normies. It is a living hell for me to be required to phrase every single thing I say with the consideration of countless third parties listening in at all times. I do not see the need to suffer more than I already have over the past 8 years with anonymity and privacy being attacked left and right.

stop looking like a faggot and listen to the guy who has actual practical knowledge

The problem with using encryption with amateur radio is that shifting mediums is still necessary to securely agree on a key. Also, services like I2P or Freenet would be more secure for communication as there would still be the problem of your callsign being transmitted with amateur radio (which is arguably a bigger problem for private communication than lack of encryption).

ok, got it

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People are primitive and do stupid things. I don't accept that is how things should stay forever.

Holy shit that went over your head.

Let me explain something to you: an ass-ravaged Hick from flyover country thinks that his circle-in-square arrangement is amazingly efficient. I simply stated the fact that this arrangement is wasteful, the space could be used more efficiently. The low intellect cunts that should be playing Metroid instead of talking about anything more cerebral than platform jumping games seem to think that I should stfu and listen to some loser in fly-over country with "experience" because I am somehow incapable of recognizing simply geometry. I think that this whole conversation has gone over your head, to wit. Go back to Holla Forums kid.

No one said it wasnt the most efficient way to pack circles retard. It is however the most cost efficient way of doing things when it comes to crops due to how land is sold and the cost of watering said crops.
Land is generally sold in quarter sections and because you usually cant buy just big blocks of land and how much land costs your sections are usually spread out. Now the other guy said the pivot covers a circle that fits in a quarter section and because no one wants to spend fucktons of money for many many small pivots and to set that shit up to cover as much land as they can they settle for the more economical solution.
Also on top of that no one would ever share land so even if you did have small pivots and staggered them you lose every other one on two sides as they would over lap on to someone elses property.
Do you get it now? Try drawing a picture to figure it out. Fucking namefags I swear. Go back to /a/.

I'm hesitant to use a form of communication that gets me profiled by countless spooks and law enforcement agencies as a potential troublemaker.

just filter that retard whenever you see him, he's quite possibly the biggest sperg on all of Holla Forums and known for samefagging dozens of times in a row, universally reviled by Holla Forums and /k/

yeah I should have figured.

I get that you are an idiot who can only imagine that land can be sold in squares and rectangles because you are following an antiquated system. Land can be exchanged at a 1:1 ratio and the farmers can have something like 20% more usable land overnight... but nobody will do it because retards cannot into math.


8ch /k/ is probably the worst /k/ of any chan. Full of vidya, but just look at the top boards. As for Holla Forums, I've been here since the beginning, so fuck your newfag opinion. You came here after getting banned from cuckchan and now you want to act salty. You can shove that right up your ass and go back to where you came from when your ban runs out.

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You're a fucking nobody, though.

As opposed connecting to websites normally where they monitor all traffic and keep a database of your internet history for a year without a warrant? The reality is they store less information from you if you're using those services than if you aren't.

What the fuck good does encryption on amateur bands do anybody?


There are innumerable solutions that let you do this over the public telephone network and internet.


Use one of the many license-free bands and commodity consumer hardware.


Pay money and get a commercial license, then pay more for commercial hardware that supports encryption.

No they are called pie graphs, they help satellites know which portion of the farm is for a given crop.

The half drunk snow plow's wont be able to plow that shit, they will get lost and crash.
Also it will fuck up the pie graph positioning and force someone to wright a new algorithm.

Ham radio will probably never allow encryption. Not only that but in each transmission you are forced to dox yourself. This has worked for a long time and its how the FCC and the hams like it so deal with it.

Listening in on other people is 90% of what ham radio is. If you don't like that then don't ham radio.

So set up a community that operates under part 15 rules. Hams can literally transmit across the world, hell they can bounce conversations off the moon and light up half the earth at once.

You could trade symmetric keys using a public key private key system, just like we do in the intertubes. But its a moot point, ham will not allow encryption, probably ever. (well for much other than controlling a satellite)

Somebody did some thinking!

I considered that too. Because these watering systems are so large, the roads can still be straight. That was my conclusion anyway. You are talking about an access road ten feet wide while the circles are very large, so the relative scale means that there is little impact on the efficiency of the system. Your sprayer is going to spray the road, getting it wet or what have you, but the road can be maintained easily enough, I wouldn't think a little pesticide is going to hurt it (it probably hurts us more than the road, wew!)

I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to do Diffie-Hellman key exchange over packet radio. It just doesn't exist because it's not allowed (yet?)

you faggots need to stop drinking the koolaid for once in your retarded lives

The cheap UV-888's would suffice; you can buy a pack of 20 for around $200...That's a neighborhood watch that would make even the Zimmer jealous and it operates virtually independent of infrastructure.

I'm limited to neighborhood ranges (0.5 to 0.75 miles) communicating HT to HT because of my terrain...bumpy valley floor. That changes with elevation and/or using the local repeater.

Not when you're operating pirate radio wherever else in the world. but yes, here you would be fined up the asshole if you broadcasted without a license

Due to the nature of radio, even short wave, the majority of the security community (read: Intelligence community) views them as old, outdated, and a threat. Not everyone is carrying a radio with them at all times any-more, so its an obvious tip of taking orders from a station.

Most stations run via phone now. Generally whatever agency/bureau you work for gives you an equation that you memorize. Depending on the week/day, you dial a phone number. The operator on the other end gives you a series of numbers/letters which you otp out (with a key, again, based on the week/day). Due to the fact that phones are so common now, no one ever suspects it.

Most of the time there is an agreement with a telephone company to allocate that big of a phone-number block. I don't know how you would do it without them in the equation. Maybe skype or google voice could sell you a custom answering machine who's message could be set via API?

And how do you plan on accomplishing that in a way that both allows you to have more than just 2 people talking to each other at a time (as it's extremely common to have more than 2 people interacting on a single frequency, simply trading keys will not work) and doesn't allow others to just join in (I monitor a channel and try to join when keys are being given out if keys are controlled by a "server" radio)? There's a reason why military radios don't offer key exchange as a feature and require all keys to be programmed in beforehand. We'd also see this more convenient way of establishing multiple secured connections without preshared information used for wifi hot spots if it existed (just replicating WPS functionality except with a range of miles is NOT secure).

Technician license holder here. Just wanted to say that yeah it's pretty garbage to not be able to experiment with encryption, but that doesn't mean you cant do it Illegally. The FCC only monitors certain areas that are considered trouble spots for piracy. hypothetically speaking, if you were sending fast and short bursts of packet data that was encrypted, it would be hard to track the exact location of where the signal came from. Provided you randomly and unpredictably changed the transmission location after sending the quick burst. Even with the direction finding equipment they have, if you make the transmission quick enough, you can TX, turn it off, then get the fuck out. I don't recommend anyone do this, because for every time you hit the PTT without a license or with intent of doing something illegal, then you're essentially playing Russian roulette with a hefty fine and jail time.

is he the /k/ spergook?

yes