So. Faggots

How can LEA be worked with if they see the world in terms of clearable cases?

I know next to nothing about the law enforcement side of things other than it's a big fucking mess. You have FBI headquarters start to make amends in the keynote speech of Black Hat 2015 and then have an independent FBI branch office continue prosecuting Matthew Keys under the CFAA for the crime of linking something in a chat room or some other independent FBI branch office do something fucking stupid like raid the house of someone because he accessed a public-facing Anonymous login FTP server.

If they're hosting public think tank events in D.C. on this topic, I've not heard of them. The think tank shit I've been seeing seem more DoD and non-FBI intelligence community-oriented. There's also various lawyery types there.

I am beyond painfully aware of this. As in, I'm fucking medicated to mitigate daily panic attacks aware.

However, a new fear has come to mind since the Snowden shit. That is - what if they end up only recruiting from universities and professional services industries for so long that they end up getting a bunch of SJWs and other people who fucking despise most nerd cultures working for them and will slowly tear apart what we've spent decades creating.

Not everything Feds do involve mass surveillance. I'd wager a large part of it doesn't involve anything related to mass surveillance. Reverse engineering, auditing site security setups, pen testing, ect ect.... don't involve working with or aiding morally and ethically abhorrent systems.

Additionally, having more people actually talk with the Feds and having each side see each other as human could help convince others. Seriously - most of the spooks I've spoken with honestly don't understand why people are so bothered about mass surveillance. Like, legit innocent ignorance. It's so fucking bizarre.

Talking of DoD and non-FBI spooks. Some DoD I've spoke with think hackers are fucking retarded for thinking the DoD has any relation to the FBI. Turns out there's a bunch of silos of people in the DoD. There's a million fucking hands and very few know what any of the others are doing.

I am absolutely going to bring that up over and over when the opportunity is right. At least two people who speak at these events that I've seen have had negative things to say about "cyber".

Hah, no. I'm just some random autist who lives near DC. I just can't stand the public discourse being so overwhelmingly focused on "Feds not legally allowed to compete on salaries with private sector" and "procurement system is arcane and must be streamlined!". Relatively little public discourse is focused on the correct cultural issues, so I'm trying to inject that during the Q&A sessions.

At this point, I only tolerate "cybersecurity" or "cybercriminals" as there is no concise alternative for either of them. And no, I'm not going to push for them to say "crackers" instead of "cybercriminals" because I'm not fucking Dave Chappelle making jokes about white people.

1) Cute, but no. I am just a random person in the D.C. area that's fucking terrified of the prospect of SJWs influencing tech policy and having any kind of power over us.

2) Alexander retired several years ago. It's now Michael Rogers.

3) No, I'm not at the point of having Feds ask me shit other than asking me if I will be coming to more such public policy forums. That and I was complimented for my questions at 2 of the 3 forums I attended.

The events I've been going to have been affiliated with Christian Science Monitor's Passcode. Don't let the name fool you - it's not doing partisan shit and it has ties with White House officials and various spooks. Hell, at one such event (CyberSecurity Futures 2020), Dark Tangent was one of the panelists.

I just noticed I said "Anonymous FBI" and not "Anonymous FTP".

WELP.

Have them recruit from online forums too by PMing users that seem to know their shit.

I frequent many reverse engineering/hacking forums and I would work for the Feds if they paid me enough.
ExeTools for example has a lot of knowledgeable people, and i'd say nearly half of the exploits found these days comes from members of that site. These sites are all males, and generally have no SJW tendencies.
There are a lot of malware authors who are just hacking because they have nothing better to do, and would join the whitehats in a heartbeat if they had the incentive to do so.

SJWs aren't a gender thing. I'm fine with tech not being a sausage fest. I'm not fine with McCarthyism and blackmail.

you're right and I'm an idiot.

for some reason I thought Keith was serving DoD not former NSA. Even worse I pictured Mike when I typed Keith.

The number of women in an online community happens to correlate a lot with out SJW they are.

That's not because they're woman there. It's because of SJW McCarthyism putting women into there. The McCarthyists typically aren't the women themselves.

So you don't much care about the cultural issues that lead to Feds proclaiming downloading a public website that the website owner didn't want you to download is equivalent to blowing up a nuclear power plant?

Either way, I'm not here due to any Fed prompting. I want this fucking stupid war between White Hats and Feds to stop.

I don't even know what the fuck happened to my grammar there at the end.

I don't agree, I think the SJW phenomena is entirely based in biology and the sexual dimorphism between male and female psychology.
Of course culture stems from biology as any Alt Right person would know, and there ARE cultural groups which are 'McCarthyist' as you put it. I disagree with that being the root or even primary cause however

But anyway I am getting side tracked on my own personal theories, I do however suggest that you mention online recruitment. Pretty much every legitimate blackhat is a NEET, since to successfully reverse engineer software looking for exploits you can't have a job or a social life, it takes too much damn time.

Yeah, reality doesn't bend to alt-right whims. Too many exceptions.

And I didn't actually mention online recruitment. Moreso recruiting people who typically spend most of their time online but may occasionally spend some time offline.

You interchange it with the correct words while you talk about it. Start off talking about cybersecurity and then use "netsec" as a synonym. Any reasonably intelligent normie will make the connection. Then just use the word netsec more and cybersecurity less. Hopefully you have hypnotized them into using the correct word now.

Also, spooks seem to be vary cautious about Israelis. Hilarious when alt-right is mentioned to them :^).

lolwut?
are you fucking retarded or blind?

Are you?

What a faggot

The fuck you talking about? None of the examples I mentioned had anyone who fucked with the Feds.

why do you even know things like this

Twitter and, separately, someone linked me to a convention that was "cryptografur" themed.

And some not even that.
Most hackers are politically-minded. The best for recruiting would be to stop with the bullshit, the surveillance, etc.
Of course, they won't.

m.nsa.gov/resources/everyone/digital-media-center/publications/cryptokids/

There used to be a flash site of this at nsa.gov/kids

Yes, but I figure it might help moderate the tone of discussion if hackers didn't fear for their fucking freedom and livelihood for doing non-criminal tech shit.

The NSA fucking terrifies me. I want nothing to do with them. I've not seen anyone that identified as being part of the NSA at any of the CSM Passcode events. Meaning the people who spoke either identified as DHS, NIST, White House official (such as the Federal CIO Tony Scott), Defense Contractor (Northrop Grumman), Silicon Valley commercial firm (CrowdStrike), or other Think Tank person (Dark Tangent).

1. Here's a recent article:
dailydot.com/politics/justin-shafer-fbi-raid/

2. I understand your sentiment about SJWs, but I doubt that you'll find anyone useful where you mentioned.

That's the first article I showed and explained to the guy that runs Passcode. He wanted more articles like that.

Are you sure about that?
passcode.csmonitor.com/influencers

So, no other cases? I am seeking to influence public discourse on the current retarded Feds vs hackers issues. No matter how many legitimate reasons there are to despise the Feds, I'd like to think there's enough good pockets out there that can positively influence policy discussions in turn if they can be convinced. At least, the attendees of these events seemed to speak of hackers in almost reverent tones.

Federal:
*Aaron Swartz - Takeaway: Changing your MAC address, web scraping a website located on a network you're authorized to be on, and performing arithmetic on a URL is considered felony hacking by the DoJ.
*Andrew "Weev" Aurenheimer - Writing a "for" loop, using curl on a public website for web scraping, and performing arithmetic on a URL is considered comparable to "blowing up a nuclear power plant" according to a DoJ prosecutor.
*Barrett Brown - Posting a link to a database dump someone else uploaded can be considered felony hacking by the DoJ.
Bradley/Chelsea Manning - Regardless of one's views on what Manning did, one of the charges the DoJ's argued Manning was guilty of was "Computer Fraud" because he used wget to access information he already had access to over a web browser in his normal course of work.
*Chris Roberts - "Look at me I'm a dumbass tweeting out that I'm hacking a plane midair! Lol j/k, I only hacked a VM of the plane's OS, but I did make a custom cable to connect to the plane's internal system and sniff traffic!". Not the most sympathetic example, admittedly. But an argument can be made that his kind of mindset is valuable in finding deadly attacks before a malicious party does.
*David Helkowski - UMD hacker. Went too far, but was skilled and wanted to do the right thing. Possible mentioned as an example of cultural conflict.
*Jonathan James - First(?) hacker that committed suicide due to the actions of the same DoJ prosecutor that later went after Aaron Swartz.
*Justin Shafer - Takeaway: The DoJ considers clicking on a Google link the website owner didn't know was exposed to Google until notified is a felony...for the person who clicked the link. Felony hacking for clicking a Google link.
*Paypal 14 - Clicking a link makes you a 1337 h4x0r that's going to get you v&.

Bottom line activities that Feds consider felony hacking or indicative of criminal intent:
*Using wget.
*Using curl combined with an iterator within a for-loop
*Using GNU/Linux
*Changing your MAC address.
*Linking to a pastebin of a credential dump uploaded by someone else.
*Clicking on a Google link of an indexed Anonymous login FTP server whose owner didn't realize was indexed.

Separately, I've found these on the state level:
State and College:
*Riccardo Calixte - College police asserted that use of Linux was de-facto evil and is probable cause to get a warrant for investigation into any proximate crimes that take place.
*Domanik Green - Guessing your teacher's desktop password correctly and changing the desktop's background to one of two men kissing is felony hacking.

I was debating including Deric "(White)KnightSec" Lostutter, but decided against it as it's unclear what evidence they have on him that the Feds consider felony hacking.

I know this list is far from thorough. Does anyone have any knowledge of cases they'd recommend I add to this list?

This is a decent thread. Bumping because I can't think of anything to add.

Fidel Salinas - Takeaway: Unsuccessfully running a web form fuzzer against a public website is worth charges from the FBI of up to 440 years in jail.

this thread is utter shit and OP is literally a sell-out helping the feds

Cry more, faggot. Not a sellout when I'm trying to get something for White Hats in return. I don't work for them and I am not offering to work for them.

that last one is cracking though.

Yes, except Deric claims he didn't actually do said hack and pointed at the person who did do it and has openly bragged about it multiple times. If Deric isn't full of shit on that part, then it may be useful.

Wat.

motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/kyanonymous-fbi-steubenville-raid-anonymous

See: BatCat

Absolutely not. This is a prime example of how normies seep through the cracks and ruin OUR shit. Let the ignorant masses be just that, ignorant masses. Laugh at them behind their backs for their idiocy instead of REEEEEEEing every time someone mentions a password app or changing the S to a dollar sign.

thanks for that list. i've heard of the first two points but not the others. i'll read up

OP you faggot. if you were truly a 1337 [email protected]/* */ you would advise the alphabets that alphabet soup needs more diversity.

diversity clearly leads to better ideas and many viewpoints help to create harmony within an organization.

why the fuck is there always some whiteknight faggot telling alphabet they need to have a greater presence at my autist conventions?? i just want to be an autist in peace. leave me alone faggot OP.

this, dubs confirm. /thread

forgot to sage

Know for certain that Putin gets fuckers in his country that do MoneyGram and buttcoin schemes to work for him.
If USA followed this model, they would have a bunch of talented degenerates that would hack for just enough to feed a drug addiction.
Also that means everyone on the marketplaces would get v& eventually and the CIA or which ever would probably be able to get sued for enabling crackheads.

I would never work for the feds doing anything. I swear it's full of power-hungry faggots who would literally put their own family in prison if it meant a $0.01 pay increase. I honestly commend you for attempting to do the right thing, but for many people that ship has long set sail.

I like weev. But you have to consider that he publicly stated his intent to destabilize the stocks of major corporations. And aron schwartz wrote that open manifesto or whatever it was called. The feds consider people who want to shake up the system to be threats and they pursue them aggressively. I don't agree with it, but I also recognize that that will not change anytime soon. This recruitment issue is mainly an issue of politics, and it cant be avoided without fundamental changes to these institutions.

>OP you faggot. if you were truly a 1337 [email protected]/* */ you would advise the alphabets that alphabet soup needs more diversity.

One panelists in one of the talks recommended gender diversity. It wasn't obsessively focused on, but it was mentioned. Other panelists, when asked about it by the the host of the event, diverted the conversation to the effect of "diversity of thought and diversity of background is useful for introducing new perspectives into InfoSec".

Because I fucking despise the notion of Feds only recruiting people whose only understanding of the Internet is from a Tumblr social justice blog. They will be asked to provide input on *policy* at some level.

But like I said at the start - I'm not sold with mentioning to Feds to try to recruit at autist conventions - that could backfire and scare people away.

But that's not what he was arrested and prosecuted for. He was arrested and prosecuted for performing arithmetic on a UID on a URL that requested no authentication, downloading about 10,000 such results, and giving it to a journalist for Wired to name and shame the respective company - AT&T.

Weev has much worse issues related to him that's unsympathetic to the DoJ. He's tweeted out post-Ashley Madison hack how he found some of his prosecutors on the DB dump and how he used that info to notify the friends and family of said prosecutors.

Weev isn't the most sympathetic of people to mention, admittedly. He made it personal with the prosecutors who made it personal with him. With Facebook ads no less.

The Open Access Manifesto was a paper that Swartz co-signed, but he wasn't one of the actual writers.

Regardless, what does that have to do with the actions the DoJ prosecutors labeled as felony hacking when they went after him?

No shit. It's politics for the assholes who pursue non-crimes aggressively. If you get rid of enough political bogeymen as a prosecutor, you get the esteemed label of political bogeyman hunter and become the authority on hunting political bogeymen.

That said, the Feds aren't unified in this. Feds have different cliques. My guess is that these cliques eventually lead up to groups of lawmakers and that Think Tanks are one of the mediums used to hash out issues.

Of course, but change has to start somewhere. And I figure one of the first steps should be STOP FUCKING RAIDING WHITE HATS DOING WHITE HAT SHIT.

I know it has, but they won't stop chasing us. And I'm of the mind that ignoring them won't make them go away.

OP here - for Reasons related to an incomplete story being told to the Daily Dot, the Justin Shafer case is no longer suitable to bring up for this purpose.

>>> if animefags in autists:... print("I'm a faggot")...>>>

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY AUTIST CONVENTIONS YOU WHITEKNIGHT FAGGOT

...

OP here again.

Had an unexpected talk with a different Fed. He said he's going to be at BSidesLV giving a talk titled "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

I don't know what the content of the talk will be outside of obviously shilling for his agency.

That said, what he told me was extremely illuminating. I disagree with him strongly on numerous political issues, but if his BSidesLV talk will be anything like the convo I had, it'll answer *many* questions. Those who want to understand more of the rabbit hole shit and are going to be at BSidesLV should come and listen.

is this the roleplay thread

Oh please. I just don't want to spoil something he's going to say on his own. Would be a dickish thing to do.

dicks, dicks everywhere

Hahaha.

You fucking morons would actually dare HELP the USA government? Did you forget that it's corrupted to its core? Holy shit, you guys are hilarious.

The current state of things is unsustainable. You don't have to want to help them to want more freedom without worry of arrest. And why the fuck not get info from the source rather than relying primarily on the media (that we all know is trustworthy and has no agenda-pushing precedent)?