So… how is capitalism going to work when there are no jobs left?

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

So… how is capitalism going to work when there are no jobs left?

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NEETional Socialism.

Which… is a form of capitalism. Try again.

Well gommunism wouldn't work without jobs either so that's fucked too lel

Basically, welfare states everywhere need to be a thing.

People are just going to call you a Luddite for pointing this out but I don't see any way around it. The pool of skilled innovators is a steadily shrinking tech-centered elite. Even the service jobs of today are going to disappear. They are just charity for businesses to keep a human face interacting with customers. But it won't continue to be practical for long. Eventually the system will only require a handful of technicians and quantum super computers to spoonfeed an entire populace.

As fucked up as it is to say, Marx was right in that communism is the inevitable outcome of communism. It's just nothing like what he imagined and a couple hundred years late getting here.

The future I see is one where humanity will split, with one group living traditionally and the other becoming something else entirely. Maybe something great will come from the later but every instinct I have tells me it will be an absolute nightmare. I just hope I can get my shit together and start a traditional family before my bloodline gets sucked into that artless, decadent abyss.

inevitable outcome of capitalism*

Hitlerdubs beat upside down kikedubs though.

People controlling the capital use tiny bit of it to provide acceptable level of squalor to the masses.

That's why making the masses into retarded brown horde without any societal cohesion or sense of unity is so critical.

Capitalism could survive, and end up being more like a real time strategy game.

What we have to remember is that this isn't going to happen overnight. As AI and robotics advance, and as these machines get cheaper, the general populace may acquire these machines.

Instead of YOU working, your robot(s) will work for you. Either you may install the mods necessary for them to do various jobs and direct them where to work, or they may become smart enough to evaluate this for themselves.

In either event, those who own businesses will still be wealthy compared to the working class population, but the working class population may all become sub-contractors as such.

Basically, instead of being paid for your labor, your rent out your AI robot. Those who are intelligent may use their disposable income to purchase more and more AI robot workers, whom you can receive more rental income from.

Basically everyone is gonna own starcraft SCVs and just click "go mine this" "go build this"

Weeabs' heaven or prostitution of your waifu?

Or… the company just buys robots and says "fuck off"

The only jobs that are going to be left IMO are knowledge based jobs and compassion based jobs and things related to psychology. As much as a robot can be programmed to do tasks, it can't be programmed to empthasise with people, understand cultural differences and the like.

But there will only be so many of them, we'll be left with a mass of unemployed people with no use for them. But somehow we have to provide them all with a standard of living that is acceptable.

We're experiencing a leftist raid. Multiple bait threads containing unsuccessfully subtle jabs at capitalism and Trump have been posted.

goddamn im glad i switched to sales.

OH NO YOUR POOR CIRCLE JERK? HOW WILL YOU COPE?

By the time robots are so cheap people give them to NEETs out of pity you'll be long dead and even longer unemployed if current trends hold true.

But wait, there are some things that can be done. Have you ever heard of Metallicarap? It's a small slowly barely progressing offshoot of the reprap project, which made plastic 3D printers cheap.

It's a metal printer though, using electron beam melting of powder in a high vacuum chamber.

There are some technical trade offs between lasers and ebeams, lasers being easier and cheaper to make, but ebeams can melt a wider range of metals, do so much more efficiently, and print larger parts more quickly than even powerful laser printers.

In addition this machine can refine titanium sponge (cheap) into pure titanium (expensive) and print solar panels from raw powders.

Now here's the part that should really sell you, this printer can almost entirely print itself. It can print vacuum pumps, circuit boards, high voltage transformers, stepper motors, etc.
Buying the parts off the shelf I've seen estimated at around $20k dollars, but by printing it's child the subsequent machines could immediately cost as little as $2k
So if you have ~20k in the bank, access to a machine shop, and a general desire to save humanity from our Jewbot overlords, consider the humble electron gun, previously used to light up the zogbox and control people, could be turned to a technological forge of Hephaestus virally replicating itself across human society.

reprap.org/wiki/MetalicaRap

Yep, a leftist consensus cracking operation. Very easy to recognize.

Saging because cuckified PC dribble.

I got a question for you op, are you really dumb enough to fall for the technocracy inc propaganda?

I used to work with them, I know how corrupt they are. Don't fall for this bait.

That's why there's "no jobs". Because we need to slow down tech development a little or somehow speed up human development (education, training, job allocation efficiency and ease)

Solution?
We need a restructured government that focuses on motivating and getting people to move by their own free will.

At the moment I assume fear mongering is being used - this is effective, but not the right way.

What we should do is ask what people want to do, then work out the best compromise. Then we work out a way of giving them personal goals and make sure they know the importance of their duty to the country as an individual (and not just "because I said it's important, we need to show them the reasoning). At the same time, they're motivated to climb duties to achieve their goals.

Imagine. A whole country filled with workers who feel they're changing their country and actually are changing their country.
A country of heroes.

They spend days agreeing with each other that we're wrong, and then they all come over here and simultaneously claim that we're a "circlejerk".
Leftists always project.

I agree, we need reasonable restructuring that does not compromise national security.

However, we can take some steps towards it, but avoiding the bad consequences.

China shows how screwed technocracy can get. It's inhumane almost.

You will never get rid of it.

It's human nature to climb mountains. Plus it gives a simple means of production - though has it's limits (and that's where debt comes in)

Nobody is suggesting they will be free.

Any piece of capital generally costs money to invest in. AI robots are no different.

You buy them, whether they cost as much as a stick of gum, or a home mortgage. Then you rent them out for profit.

Theoretically, as said, it's possible business owners simply purchase such robots and don't agree to pay rent for them.

I would disagree, especially as businesses attempt to expand. I'm not saying that your robot is going to land the same job for 50 years at the same plant. Many jobs might be for only a few months at a time. Temp robotic jobs if you will.

I'm no psychic as far as how the market will work, but I guarantee that it is not always economically feasible to simply own all of the capital you may ever need.

If 2 months out of the year you want to produce 2X more of Widget A, it doesn't make sense to have 2X as much capital as you need to produce your normal 1X amount of Widget A, and have it sit dormant for 10 months of the year.

Of course it is.

Look at all the fags that are proponents of technocracy. They're all pieces of shit with massive egos and an equally massive inferiority complex and a lack of empathy bordering on some antisocial B-cluster disorder such as ASPD or NPD.

They're usually not successful people in the present world either.

Oh come on be reasonable now.

There are logical reasons, though I've yet to meet one of these guys.

Machine rental corporations already exist. I'm sure they'll add robots to their fleets when the time comes. I'm not so sure businesses would have luck renting their machines from hundreds or possibly even thousands of different contractors.

Just look at how owner/operators are already being phased out of the trucking industry in favor of huge corporate fleets employing illegals at minimum wage.

I bring up Merallicarap because it's very much like the abstract robots that have been described, it's self replicating, better at manufacturing than any human hand, etc. with the very important distinction that it's open source so if it ever actually gets built all that's stopping you from owning one is a little reading and some cool equipment. It also would enable you to become a robot builder rather than just some loser trying to sell his organs for robot money.

The issue is fundamentally that you imagine the elites wouldn't shit on you just because they can, that you don't understand the technocracy and its history, that someone somewhere somehow must be on your side. This is going to be a quiet war fought with silent weapons. A depopulation event.

Those of us who survive may finally get a seat at the table but we also may not. Good luck friend.

Pray for Metallicarap.

Just like in the Roman Empire. Slaves took all the work, the divide between rich and poor grew drastically, and taxes had to be raised to feed and clothe the growing number of poor, until the eocnomy collapsed.

I TRIED TO WARN YOU

universal income + capitalism

wow this whole thread but this post in particular is a massive jumble of pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

there is not any real difference between capitalism and communism, they are both forms of materialism. you faggots need to read some hegel before you try to critique marx, hell ACTUALLY read marx before you pretend to understand his shitty dialectic.

gene roddenberry had a pretty interesting view of the the post-scarcity society of automation, one could say that since labor was now irrelevant thanks to the machine, a new system of values would be established. formerly capitalism and communism were concerned with the meteing out of material and accumulation of material. read alfred rosenbergs "myth of the 20th century" for a neat critique of the materialist system which is going to itself be dialectically overcome by the new society of pure faustian exploration and innovation in the post scarcity world.

the new post-scarcity world needs to be eugenic, because most of humanity is bred for labor, including the elite.

the other option is society will voluntarily choose to keep labor alive as a ritual for meaning, machines will be highly regulated for ritualistic reasons.

the idea of "ownership" will change completely when labor is no longer a human activity. wealth will no longer be relevant

the best part is these lefty idiots aren't even very well versed in their own ideology, they are mostly just trolling with shitposts like "welfare for everyone"

Lol wtf you on about boi

old pasta
When labor becomes worthless as it soon will, what will happen to society? When the only way to achieve compensation is to already own capital what will happen to the great majority of the population that own nothing of value?


As I've said before, the social upheaval will not be pleasant for some and now is the time to decide will it be the 99% of humanity that will suffer the ravages of war, pestilence, famine and poverty? Or will it be the 0.01% who suffers greatly, although their suffering will be almost entirely economic losses?

These are questions I put before you.


The benefits of labor (consumer demand) is externalized from the firm
The detriments of labor (labor costs) is internalized to the firm
Therefore, even though it is in the long-run interests of the firm
for consumer demand / labor costs (both synonymous with labor) to be high, it is
in the short-term interests of the firm for labor costs to be low.
Therefore, when faced with a tough situation, firms will instinctively
cut labor, but paradoxically are killing themselves in doing so.
Cutting costs in the short-term allows them to remain competitive among
their peers but it decreases the size of the market that they're selling to.
If only one firm cuts its labor costs, then it becomes the most competitive
within the industry and the size of the market is only reduced by a tiny
fraction. If all firms cut their labor costs, however, then no firm is
more competitive than any other but the size of the market has become drastically
reduced. The compulsion to conform to competitive standards on an immediate
basis is capitalism's undoing.
In addition:
Labor has minimal ability to restrict itself. Demand for labor is the
"short end of the stick" in the supply / demand dynamic. This is because
sellers of labor need to sell in order to survive. Buyers know this.
Therefore they can afford to be patient and buy or not buy labor as they
please. Sellers of labor cannot afford to this, therefore they will
agree to work twice as long while their co-worker is fired because
they are compelled by the fear of starvation and poverty. Even though
it is not in the interests of the person now working twice as long
for his co-worker to be fired (it increases the supply of labor and
therefore makes his position at the firm more insecure), his short-term
interests by far outweight that consideration. So because workers have
no individual bargaining power they will agree to do things that are
against their best interests as workers. This is why it is necessary
for the individual bargaining power of a single worker to be represented
in the aggregate by either unions or government in order to be effective.

I don't think it's feasible to tax the 1% enough to fix this and I also wouldn't trust the government to do so in a way that didn't ultimately enslave and impoverish rich and poor alike.

Distributism is the solution. Build Metallicarap, sell me one at a reasonable profit, I'll print two more and sell them to recover my investment and give me some money for raw materials to print a recycler that powders scrap, then I'll sell you cheaper metal powder and you can print even more printers even cheaper now. Pretty soon you've made yourself a whole pile of cash and literally created hundreds of patrician tier cottage industry jobs all around you out of metal and ingenuity.

Then we can get as many people as humanly possible on board the life raft of owning productive capital.

Quite a lot more efficiently, I would wager.

Stop believing marxists.

Reported.

Fuck yourself.

Subsidizing marginal producers is a financial dead end. And cheap credit subsidized and distributed under market value only ends up inflating the national currency which leads to busts like in 29 and 08.

I always recommend Hazlitt, right after digesting some basic Bastiat.

steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/chap07p1.html

D&C + SLIDE

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hue

thread hidden

only troglodytes think of that

not an argument

It won't. That's why we need National Socialism.

Not to sound like the old Holla Forumsacks, but are you fucking retarded or a white natio… nvm.

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no it's not you fucking burger

this isn't d&c or shilling, you spergout

retarded lolbergtardian detected. have fun with your kike ideology faggot

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Only communists think National Socialism is a form of capitalism, you fucking stupid nigger.

>>>Holla Forums
>>>/oven/


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You look like the only one ITT doing D&C

How much per post?

I agree that they're different, but you sound like a spastic and there's no reason to stop the discussion simply because you've been triggered.

Countersage.

just report the luddite

That’s right. The video isn’t an argument.

None of it will work. We will need to genocide 6 billion brown people and then white people can live with robots producing our stuff. Problem solved.

Someone talk to me plx

about what?

Incorrect. Unless you use some completely insufficient definition of capitalism (which you probably do).

Adapt to the changing landscape. That's what animals have always done.

Even if there is a welfare state, the free lunch isn't going to be tasty.

I just fucking said this somewhere, hang on…

Don’t listen to the faggots who pretend we will be automated out of work. Don’t listen to the faggots who pretend UBI is needed because of this.
1. Not true
2. When it happens, those people will get other jobs.
You don’t, because it cannot exist by definition. The laws of thermodynamics prevent it.
Come on.
All of this is predicated on the delusion that everything will be automated.

So basically your "argument" is

Marxists are far from the only people recognizing this problem or proposing solutions to it. Any other thoughts or feels I can address?

Thanks for playing.

Tax is a primitive system, the reason there is so much problems with our current world is because we try to employ primitive systems to move to the future. Going full retard and claiming conspiracy or some other non-definable garbage does nothing to indicate a problem…

Just think about it for a moment, and the answer will be obvious ONCE THAT TIME ARRIVES:

1) large parts of the population are unemployable
2) mechanisms (technological and social) will increase abundance
3) Said abundance also happened to be linked to Humans being unemployable
4) no one wants to be forced to work
5) the new mechanism are better than what Humanity ever had
6) Abundance is good

huh

You’re not even trying to shill anymore.

Haha take out the green text and you're actually speaking with some sense of self knowledge.

Filtered for being a no argumentz newfaggot

Reported for being a paid kike shill.

evidence?

at least give us a schizophrenic collage

You know the best thing shills? It's pretty easy to identify you.

wew

Fam, the other saging user here.

We need to make a compedium of le automation meme since it's always the same fucking arguments of le IBC meme.

There won't be other jobs. If robots get to the point where they are superior to humans in all abilities, then there is no reason for humans in any jobs.

I'm not siding with anything… I'm merely saying that things are changing

Posting Holla Forums story

. . .

shill, please. Laying off millions of humans and replacing them with robots so the 1% can live completely hedonistic lifestyles is pro white. remember to vote for john mcafee.

[citation needed]
1. This can never happen
2. Problem solved.
3. Even you say “if”, so what the fuck are you doing, nigger?

That’s exactly what you are.

I know right, we might as well make a cult in which we kill ourselves so we give our future resource consumption to robots.

shill, please. Replacing telephones with smartphones so that the 1% can ONLY HAVE SMART PHONES is pro white. remember to vote for john mcafee. :^)

God damn this place is compromised as fuck.

Get put into the fucking gas chambers and gas yourself.

I think societal collapse/ catastrophic depletion of natural resources (ore, minerals, but most of all clean water) will be far greater threats in the future. Granted automation won't help matters.

I don't get my feelings hurt (saging) whenever people talk about changes in society by technology

Call me a commie or whatever but NEETional socialism sounds pretty good, although the kikes would horde all the money. Your whole life could be devoted to spending time with your family, exercising, learning, building, whatever.

0/10, apply yourself.

You ate breakfast today that the King of England wouldn't have been able to eat 100 years ago!! Talk about HEDONISTIC

Fuck, you’re not even trying.

Why does the subject of automation make libertarians so platinum mad?

:^)

Man, you really are retarded.

Just keep on going, lad. I'll be kekking over here.

When will that time be? One year after you've lost your job? Two? Ten?

Automation is an exponential thing at this point. The genii is out of the bottle.

You tell me what you would prefer, a government that owns a machine that produces everything you need or your own postage stamp of land where you produce the the things you need?

Sitting around and letting legislators and ((capital owners)) hash it out will give you option one if you're very well behaved and remain useful to those groups.

Metallicarap will give us option two. What are you honestly fighting for soldier, if not to wash the blood off your hands one day and return to the farm?

Nah.

sage

Fuck off leftypol faggot

Oh look it's this thread again

Me too. I don't believe in gommunist eschatology and the end of history. There will be catastrophic resource depletion, nuclear war, etc. and we will be knocked back to the stone age, perhaps permanently. Marxist gommunism will not happen.

Fighting is an end in itself.

It sounds like Reddit is more your speed. There’s a sub called /collapse/ where they fellate each other over the death of humanity due to AGW.

Why not go there and help them realize that committing suicide is the right thing to do?

Kill the unemployed.

Then what are you? Other than a D&C faggot interrupting a discussion about an actual approaching issue with spergfits about how automation somehow won't reduce the number of available jobs and anything that isn't 100% free-enterprise capitalism is communism.

Sounds pretty lolbergtardian to me.

Now that's some edge

Dude, that's a good question. At first I thought you meant in relation to the times (which can be derived after a certain percentage)… HOWEVER, you framed the question around the INDIVIDUAL.

Here is the painful truth, like other moments in history, there will have to be A LOT of people "suffering" (unemployable and unable to get another job) BEFORE the rest of the Humans can do something about it. That has ALWAYS been the case.

you'll be surprised how Humans can fuck it up

Preferably, none of these options. REALISTICALLY, it will likely be the government BUT with the rest of Humanity trying to get their own postage stamp of land.

I will be careful. I do not believe in "waiting for someone to work a solution", but at the same time that mentality doesn't suit well many people. Heck, some of these people are here. They are terrorists waiting to happen, this is why I've been thankful for trump (I suspect the people above did it), a lot of people who would otherwise gone full terrorist in the next 4 years now know their place.

...

Okeedoke, faggot.

Being in the stone age would be pretty awesome. It would allow for the development of many human qualities that are stifled by modern technological civilization. We live in an anti-heroic age. Stone age would be the age of heroes.

Nice kennedi dubs

New industries will be created that we can't see yet. Back when 90% of people were farmers nobody would have fathomed the tech industry. Now only a tiny percent of people do agriculture.

This is just commie propaganda. There's nothing immoral about not giving someone a job or using a tractor rather than having 100 guys pull your plow along. Stop.

Like the horses right? New horse industries.

Of course….lolberg scum will defend this.

This. The whole "disaster will send us back to the stone age" bullshit that's been so popular over the past half century is nothing other than jewish apocalyptic eschatology.

Incidentally, that's a similar reason to why I think so many kikes are involved in communism. They're looking to bring about their fabled "messianic age".

First day on the job, moishe?

WEW, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT. WEW.

nice kennedi dubs

I didn't check the IDs

you're still right about the collapse bullshit being a shitty jewish meme even if you are being a faggot about the rest of the thread

When intelligence become a requirement for the lowest paid jobs non-whites other than east asians will become obsolete, either they will destroy the world or we will purge them so we can continue forward.

ahahah, well there's at least one person here who will be easily substituted by a bot.

Not sure but I can guarantee the government will still be telling us we have to import millions more shitskins

honestly, am I the only one that cannot fathom a proper restaurant (PROPER; not fast food shit) without people? I mean, I bet the food a bot makes is not as good and I also like to talk to the people serving me, if it was a bot I'd probably wouldn't enjoy it and would just stay home and cook myself

There will be jobs for creative people to design wonderful things for the robots to build.

You're lying to me when you say you'd rather neither. No one likes the way things are now and those are the two options going forward, collective ownership difficult to accomplish, guaranteed to be paid for in blood, starvation, lives and Distributism expand the capital owning class until it eventually includes all of us by creating new means of production

I think you betray your true feelings when you say you think the government will win out against the individual and admit that the conflict will ultimately boil down to that.

With electron beam deposition printing we wouldn't need to government to steal for us because we could feed ourselves.

No it isn't. Jews have linear history. Judaism, Marxism, etc. There is a distinct beginning and end and a progression from one to the other.

Aryan history is cyclical. The rise and fall of empires, the waxing and waning of technology, etc.

...

The obvious difference is that a tractor requires a human operator. So do machines of the early industrial era. We will be getting to the point that human labor is completely unnecessary and outclassed by robotic labor in every possible way.

You know the shift went from 90% to something like 8% and less, the number of people necessary dropped off the face of the earth.

are you fucking retarded or a white nati… nvm :^)

The fact that a human serves your food like a slave should be disgusting… then again, I know how you subhumans enjoy feeling superior to others

what's "creative"? and would you harm the scientists working on recreating (and surpassing) that concept on bots?

Morality isn't real you dumb ape.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, I meant that governments doing the distribution of Good OR Resources… BUT if I have to choose, I rather have government distribute Resources (like land).

to be honest, I like to think of the worst (realistic) case scenario to those thing… I do see the individual merge from this whole mess, but in the coming decades, government will still be on top (maybe more than ever).

yeah… but that is many more decades away from the automation wave coming to many sectors.

I never said morality, but I don't want a system where my happiness depends on the suffering of millions (having ONE waitress implies there are MILLIONS of them serving other people)

*tips blow your brains out*

An original creation made to evoke an emotional response. No, I would not hurt anybody capable of doing the impossible.

Suffering is good.

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Ebeam welders and printers exist today. It isn't some theoretical technology, just an open source attempt at proven tech.

And it really could change the course of history

I never said otherwise, you ignorant bitch. I even alluded to it as much. You were too dense to notice.

Holla Forums detected

I wasn't wrong though. That was Marx's prediction, that capitalism would naturally give way to communism. So what is your fucking point?

Pseudo-intellectual babble

This is the artless, decadent abyss I mentioned in my post. If you're just selecting for brains then you are narrowing the scope of the human experience. Count me out.

This would be preferable but it's unlikely without WW3 and a massive cultural reset to put everyone in a deep, unanimous religious state. Plus it wouldn't last. Jews would fuck it up.

Believing Jew fairy tales like star trek.

I would prefer post scarcity warrior society. War for its own sake.

...

The video makes several flawed and stupid arguments.

It compares Humans to Horses, ignoring that Horses got their position because they were Servants to Humans.

Robots may replaces certain Human to Human services, but Robots still need to service Humans. If there is no Human to serve, Robots are pointless and without reason to exist.

What the video also ignores, are the Humans that are needed to repair and do maintenance on Robots. No Machine that Humanity has build is indestructible or without flaws. Over time they break down and have accidents, which then requires Humans to repair and replace them.

Robots in the Service Industry have also the problem that they can easily become "victims" to Humans. Put up a Cash machine somewhere and some people will try to break it open and steel the money. Whats preventing people from simply looting any Super Market that has replaced his cashier with a Baxter robot? Hackers will have a field day exploiting a Service Industry without Humans. Who will stop them, Cameras that can only watch?

All in all massive automation, is nothing but a massive crime spree waiting to happen.

Horses got their place in society same as any other person or animal; by being useful, not because of their natural in built desire to serve man.

Then they were no longer useful. The comparison is an apt one.

This isn't a terribly good argument in the context of your earlier one. Here in the desert plenty of rich folks keep horses to ride once a month or so. Humans with no jobs are pointless and without reason to exist. Will we wind up like the pet horses?