I assume the main reason to vote FOR Trump (rather than just against Hillary) is immigration reform

not an argument

If you want a 24yr old mexican guy called Pedro Emilio "Snitch Slitch" Juan Jose who has a tattoo on his face, seven children and two years in prison behind him to take your job, don't vote for trump.
Or do, since he can't change much. All the change he promises, won't change anything. Same was with Obongo. "The more change, the more stays the same" - Snake Plissken

The fact that they are working a single job means they are competing with natives. If they left, the jobs wouldn't just vanish. Someone would be hired to wash dishes and mow lawns; they would simply have to be paid more and above the table.

Fuck off back to your faghole faggot.

Is picking grapes out in fields something americans do? No.

Also, if the price of getting your lawn mowed goes up, some percentage of people are going to stop paying for the service altogether, right?

not an argument

all of the above m8, plus they are in our country illegally and have no right to be here.

fuck spics

Well, considering we had wine before we had unrestricted illegal immigration, I would have to say, yes, it is something that americans have done and would do again if there were no one else to do it for substantially less.

No. In many neighborhoods, the fines for letting your lawn remain uncut are very steep, far more expensive then it would be to hire an american to mow the grass.

Even better people will mow their own lawn and no money will flow to the drug cartels.

gee i wonder why trump is being supported by the establishment

There are american landscapers, yes. Fieldworkers? MM…. probably not so much.

I work manufacturing though, and i can tell you first hand, mexicans destroyed it. Not saying i should make a mint from what i do, but i should be able to rent a 1 br apartment without having to shit my pants.

i said earlier, 40 years ago, my parents and grandparents would've thought my job was FUCKING FANTASTIC because they could've afforded anything they wanted. Now, i cant afford a 1br apartment where i live.

This too. Let's not forget that illegal immigrants occupy housing that could have been occupied by natives. The supply of housing at any given time is limited - if there were no illegal immigrants, there would be less demand, and housing would also be more affordable.

They leech off of native taxpayers and create crime; in addition many illegal immigrants are degenerates from poor Central American areas or southern Mexico who've are heavily infested with native blood. Most competent Mexicans are already comparatively rich in Mexico and stay on their ranchos eating cacti and tacos.

You've never listened to Trump before have you? He talks about a lot of small details we're missing to Make America Great Again. No other politician does that, they give a dubious vague answer and say "lol wait until we draft the law for it fag."
Do you live on a border town? It's shit. These people need to leave, die, and go back. They bring disease, crime, problems, and cost. Many of them require state resources that STEAL from legal tax paying Americans. They ABUSE our rights to justify this excursion. They LIE about their reasons of being here. They SPREAD drugs, disease, crime, and poverty.
They all must go. All of them. No Mexican fucking shit skin left here.

Schools are failing. They are assimilating into gangs/Mexican nationalism in a AMERICAN NATION. They are filling prisons. They are destroying communities. They are stealing jobs(this bit is real).

If you think they are good you are delusional. Such a dumb, disgusting race.
They do not like you. They hate you, us. They don't want a white America, yet they will gladly take your white blonde blue eye daughter and mongrelize her to breed more monkey haired children. This needs to end.
And (((they))) are Mexicans.

FUCK DIRTY SPICS

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Our race is worth more than money. And that is the real concern here you shekel lusting kike.

There is literally nothing wrong with wanting the spics to go back to the jungle and die. If you think cheap tacos are more important than America, go with them.

You haven't provided an argument either. You just stated your feelings like a typical intro-to-politics 18 year old at his first college debate.

Come with something a bit more substantial than your Jew pozzed mind.

Deporting 30 million illegals that take all lower end and/or blue-collar jobs along with reducing visas to third-world countries where companies import cheap engineers, computer programmers and health care professionals will definitely help the economy for Americans. There's no way to spin it any other way.

top kek. i guess us goyim are a bit more combative than the (usual) bunch.

I have no doubt that they are filling prisons, but could someone provide me with some numbers of the effect?

I never said I had an argument, I just asked a question. U mad?

The rules are different here, so here's some smug. It trumps any argument.

Some other user put it more eloquently, Trump vs. Hillary is Nationalism vs. Globalism.

Also the thought that we need illegal immigrants to sustain our economy is a myth.

The reason why a large amount of Mexican and middle eastern immigrants are bad is because they are culturally insolvent.

im not your fucking mom kike.

And I should also add: I need no convincing that a highly disproportionate amount of these people are shitty. I'm sure they have a shitty impact on the United States overall. But could someone quantify the effect in some way?

You are not accomplishing anything other than lowering my perception of the intelligence of the people who frequent this board, which is actually counter to your cause. Please get your emotions in check.

Are you new?

Holla Forums does not give a single shit about what any given user thinks about it.

Well, considering that you clearly didn't come to listen I think that's okay.
You're free to leave at any time.

Oh no fucking Johnny down the street can finally mow neighbor's lawns again for a decent price instead of getting outcompeted by a goon squad of Pedro's that have industrial mowers so they're done in a few minutes and charge only $15

Stop being emotional. I pointed out you didn't have an argument and you got emotional, I pointed it out and you say, "You didn't come here to listen". What are you, a 15-year old girl?

lol srs fag? you arent even from around here.

You are ignoring the stupid faggots spoonfeeding you and responding to those who rightfully insult you.
You are the only cuck here being emotional.

Okay, here's an argument, you gaslighting cuck.
Spics are scum and don't belong in a white country. They're objectively a drain on the state.

Remove carne asada.

No goy! You need to tell me WHY you want to remove carne asada? you got to convince me goy. i don't see how they are bad.

You are underage and retarded.

I am aware that a lot of the illegal aliens are shitty people. But I still wish I had a picture of how the economy is affected overall by illegal immigration. Because I know there are at least some positives for some people. For example, people who aren't blue collar can buy some things cheaper and people who employ the illegals can make some more money, right?

And I understand the whole degeneracy argument, but I'm not sure how it compares with, say, Trump cutting taxes on the rich. I looked at "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" and I understand that a stupid population is not efficient.

...

Treating this as a serious question, because we should know how to answer this shit for normies without completely releasing our power levels:

Why immigration matters: The most important reason right at this moment is civic.
The democratic party is OPENLY declaring their intention to increase naturalization efforts this year so that there will be more democratic voters. Read: They cannot win over the American people, so they are importing Mexicans, making them "American", and trying to take over the country in that way.
There are important concerns about immigration related to how much welfare they use, which is a financial drain, but there is NO MORE IMPORTANT issue to vote on than maintaining the value of your vote.

Why deportation matters: As long as there is a massive population of illegals in this country, the threat of future mass-amnesty with a "pathway to citizenship", leading to takeover of the electorate will ALWAYS be a looming threat.
Deportation is the only way to wipe that threat from the board permanently.

So Holla Forums is now an adjunct board of Holla Forums.

Fucking great.

not an argument chaim

Why are you talking like a quadcuck?

Are you for reals?

I know many. In fact, im 25% asada.

The question is, what do you wanna know? i can answer any questions.

I just know they fucked everything up for us mostly whitefolk. Ask me specificx i may eggsplain

are you sure you want to ask a question this stupid?

We haven't been gas lighted in a couple of months. This is just some rouge cuck that wants to rub his monkey haired paws together so he can counter argue how cowardly invaders are totally not bad for a nation.

No, because the natives who are displaced by the illegals in both employment and housing don't just "go away," they become unemployed themselves and draw financial support from the legally employed population, as do the illegal immigrants.

Yeah but again, a lot of them work jobs American's won't, like working in fields. So how do the two things compare, quantitatively, economically, is what I'm asking.

they are subsidizing the reduced prices through welfare that illegals recieve, or worse through remittance payments that are sent out of country back tot heir families to the tune of $24 billion a year.

if I buy produce grown in America I want to money to end up supporting American families, not sent back to Mexico to end up with their corrupt government that's ran by cartels.

No you're not.
YOU'RE A FUCKING WHITE MALE!
I just can't even…

Honestly mods, 8ch operators. Whoever you are. This flood of reddit shit is terrible.

>>>/oven/

I really am sympathetic to a lot of the ideas stated on this board, but you guys need some thicker skin than this. It accomplishes nothing to post reaction images of disgust and insult me instead of answering my very legitimate questions, it just makes you look like stupid and immature children.

Can you PROVE that Chaim?
pro tip. You can't.
mfw

I think you are hilarious, but seriously dude… where are people supposed to go for a more intellectual discussion of things, if that sort of discussion isn't allowed to be discussed here, because if any questions get asked, you just immediately scream Jew, Jew! Seriously, dude

THE BENEFITS CANNOT AND WILL NOT EVER OUTWEIGH THE NEGATIVES, THEY'RE A DRAIN ON THE ECONOMY, A BLIGHT ON PEACEFUL NEIGHBOURHOODS, DRUG PUSHERS, WELFARE HIJACKERS AND (the most important reason of all) THEY'RE NOT HERE LEGALLY.

Disregarding any other issue other than the final, they still should not be in America as they haven't come through the legal channels. You don't know who they are, you don't know what they've done, you don't know where their loyalty lies and they have no reason to give a shit about the nation they're sucking the life out of.

They're not called "Illegals" for fun. They are, by default, lawbreakers.

If you post again claiming you still don't understand then you can easily fuck off back to wherever you came from and go back to sucking cock. It's not that hard to understand, I've never been to America and I fucking get it.

Are you the epitome of accomplishment then?
get triggered quadcuck. you pretend like you care, but evidently you don't.
You act like a reddit super cuck who's migrated here since he was 2extreme4reddit.

Someone said it earlier in the thread but I'll say it again.
If all beaners disappeared tomorrow someone will re-qualify and get to work on those fields due to the newfound high demand for field workers, thus making the field of work a lucrative one.

Also (checked)

I'm sure I'll enjoy my 50 cent cabbage when my children are in a school is 95% beaner, my wife gets hit by a drunk driver who has no papers, stuff gets stolen out of my car on the daily, and all my neighbours play their shitty mariachi music until 4 am faggot.

Checked. It's been unbearable for a week. If anything, Hillary shills certain don't want for numbers.

Sage.

You're a useless cuck, if you love your country and fellow citizens, then gas yourself so as to save us all the trouble

...

This is the sage line, if you post in this thread and don't sage from this post onwards, you are a confirmed faggot who is ruining this board.

don't come here if you expect to repeat your programming in a place that has argued these points again and again for years and receive anything other than disgust.

Americans used to work those jobs, until spics were imported to undermine the minimum wage. If the spics were removed, the jobs would still have to be done, and employers would be forced to pay fair wages to Americans to get them done. Also, the Americans newly employed would not be exporting their money to foreign shitholes.

So what will you do when a family member asks you these questions? Print a reaction image and hold it up to his face?

I answer the question seriously because it is not an unrealistic question to hear, with the notion of sharing rhetoric that others might find useful.
I don't know if OP is shilling or not, but his thread can be made useful in this way.

It will hopefully accomplish either making you leave this place altogether or lurking a little before you start posting your dumb questions.

I'm a little on the fence if the holocaust really happened. Like wouldn't that be impossible for Hitler to not cover up his atrocious gassing! My great grandfather was gassed, shot, burned, raped, eaten, and starved 4 times at Oshitz!

not an argument

OK so it's a sort of moral argument then.

calm your autism

calm your tits

how do you know that the industry won't just diminish… making wine will be less profitable without illegal labour, so there will be less wine industry in general, right?

exactly faggot. i do this everywhere. meet me irl and ill do it too faggot. you cant stop me.

get a load of this cuck
shilling for OP when proven he's a gas lighting cuck. k.

Maybe for the first two years or so while the industry is being brought up to speed again, but sudden drop in supply tends to raise demand.

Sure the prices will rise but it's goddamn alcohol, the silly goyim can't break that addiction even if it hurts their finances.

On the other hand, more Americans would have jobs and they would be paid more than illegals, so the demand for luxuries and the market's price could be expected to increase.

It's so easy to oust you. Your vocabulary and syntax is painfully not from here. You avoid certain terms to remain Political Cucked.

so wine production being made less profitable won't reduce the size of the industry in the long run because the reduced size in the short term will increase demand? really?

Having now reviewed OP's posts, yeah, he seems like a bit of a cuck, but not to the point where I'd say shill. I actually HAVE heard all of OP's points IRL from people who aren't SJWs.

On the other hand, people who go into FITS OF IRRATIONAL RAGE at the notion of developing our rhetoric seem a whole lot like shills to me.

i'm blocking you because you've had 7 posts or whatever to say some kind of intellectual argument instead of whining like a child with no argument. sorry

To add to that, the government can help the wine industry in various ways, playing on the fact that American Citizens are the ones working those fields.
Based on Trump's support, there are enough ameriburgers that care about such things who would buy locally produce wine just due to their patriotism.

Not an argument, kill yourself.

My main reason for supporting Trump is that he is against the Globalist agenda.

The TPP will do nothing but fuck the economy of every nation that signs it.
We are talking 12 nations that would be fucked by the globalist new world order bullshit.

Same can be said about the TTIP (but I think Europe have bigger things to worry about right now, rather than trade deals)

Trump will not ratify these horrible deals, and that alone would win my vote.

His nationalist viewpoints, his stance on immigration and illegals,
his predominantly conservative ideals are all just a bonus.

As for deporting illegals, it's simple math friendo.
Illegals are taking jobs while Americans are going without
Illegals are committing a massive number of crimes.
Stopping this puts everyday americans into work, and saves valuable police resources, thereby costing less.

meant for obviously.

yeah and let me say I think the leftypol are really, really dumb. like a really ugly self-satisfied, self-righteous kind of dumb

regardless of that super faggot your argument hinges on whats good for the GLOBALIST.
that doesn't mean its exactly good for the nation.

And they are easily destroyed. The points OP is making is (((literally))) jew-tier arguments. According to OP's logic we should dump all our waste everywhere regardless of nature because money amirite goy? OP has no basis. He's just baiting and gas lighting endlessly. You can see I've already psyched his pussy ass quite a bit. This is part of making the area acidic to those who aren't from here. Those who can handle it can stay, those who can't are discovered like OP.

...

i didn't know that. well done

Not only this, but tariffs would be raised on foreign wines, and many people would switch to domestic.

...

You can't do that! They will go to war to us! : 36f3ed

but user! what about the economy? How on earth will the US compete with markets like Japan and China while blocking goods from other nation-states!???

I don't know! I think we're going to have to get the United Nations on this one!

Isolationist policies will never work!
t. OP's ass (is an argument)

Also he stopped posting so hopefully mods will anchor this shit thread soon.

Probably writing in a notepad file about us.
He doesn't know a lot of things. Not from here. Mods should ban this retard for the spite of him.

My girlfriend is a naturalized American citizen, she paid to fees and took the oath. She is Mexican.

Her parents brought her here to pick fruit in California. They came here illegally. Her father was an electrician and worked hard. Now? He is collecting social security, he speaks English and lives with his friend, he is a legal citizen.

Her brother was born here. He is a physicist in Boston and holds a doctorate. His entire college education was paid for for scholarships and grants.

Her anchor baby sister #1 is pretty worthless, did not graduate high school, had 4 kids 1 one joined the Army, the others all graduated high school, decent.

sister #2 wants to be a lawyer to work for illegal rights and immigration, liberal scum, free college for her too, has two mixed sons and they live in the suburbs with whites.

Her mother can barely speak English, collects social security, gets Section 8 housing. Her long term boyfriend is here illegally, was arrested for DUI and is still here. She is a legal resident.

All in all, it's a mixed bag. Her family is the exception - most relatives and stories I hear are advertisements for closed borders.

If we are going to take any of these people from other countries, they NEED to speak English, file the paperwork, pay the fees, serve in the military or public service, be healthy, intelligent, HIV free and improve America.

A garbage truck used to need 3 -4 men to operate. Now, one at the wheel and everything else is automated.

Not everyone needs to go to college. Not everyone can operate in an office.

Niggers and convicted felons need jobs that illegals take. Manufacturing, meat packing, landscaping auto maintenance.

moslems have no place in America. Islam is incompatible with all religions except itself - and even then that is not a guarantee against violence.

I personally believe from experience and research that America can be a predominantly white, with hispanics and asians being a significant minority.

It's time to make America simply America again, not Mexico/Central/South America Major. I have met more worthless Puerto Ricans than Mexicans. I have met more worthless black Cubans than Mexicans.

That's not the only issue. NAFTA for one needs to fucking go, and a Clinton will not get rid of it.

You still didn't provide source on how American won't work in fields and other jobs.

Look because illegals are off the book people these are people that companies have free reign to do with all the like, and you could argue that the way to fx thos is to legalise them but you're going to see millions of mexicans take more toll on the system than it already is. By removing them they don't take up America's resources and that means America can have more jobs and resources for everyone, also means Big Business gets less power

I've been working fields since I was 12, you cuck.

Okay, you can go back to Old Mexico with her and make Mexico great…they were never great before, so you're going to just have to make them great.

Americans would do those Jobs if there were available for them
Don't claim that Americans don't want to do them because Mexicans are the only ones doing them
What you don't realise is that these jobs are never advertised to Americans

Eat shit faggot. I am white.

If I could find a decent white woman in America who isn't a complete gold digging whore without at least 2 kids by 25 I would.

I do my part for whites.

If you read anything from my post past the first sentenct, which I doubt - low energy, low intelligence drive by reply fag.

I stated even LEGAL immigration is mixed bag and all illegals have to go. I have first hand experience and have argued with actual anchor babies, legal residents and former illegals.

Unlike you, I have seen it first hand, I didn't just read about it. I am retired military, I have traveled the word. All the borders need to be sealed and moslems have absolutely no place in America - ever, same with jews.

Mexico was never great, if the scum and masses keep leaving, they will never rise up and fight back to make it great.

Watch his foreign policy speech before asking stupid questions.

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