Systemd thread

Systemd already controls the vconsole (tty)

No, I mean systemd-consoled, the successor to kmscon. It seems they'll implement systemd-emacsd before the thing I actually want.

github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/747
well shit

Not following the unix philosophy made them the cancer they are today. Nowadays a lot of critical system applications require it. If only they had just componentized the god damn thing to we didn't need the whole fucking bloated package for some simple program...

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
Here's your reply.

Literally the first file i randomly opened on the source.
github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/src/udev/udev-builtin-blkid.c#L39-105

GNU and Linux don't follow the Unix philosophy either.

The kitchen is dirty, might as well shit into the sink.

My point is that "it doesn't follow the Unix philosophy" is not a good argument, because you can apply it to so many things that don't have systemd's problems. You need to be more specific.

Those are not sensible arguments against systemd.
That's just people complaining about systemd's devs and their design decisions.

That's shit trolling, user, apply yourself.

Let's go through it piece by piece
I don't think anyone who ever lands on that page would read more than one of those.
But with headlines like "Is systemd an NSA attempt?", "systemd: Assumptions, Bullying, Consent", etc. you know what you are in for.

Doesn't have anything to do with the software itself.

See above.

That's the only legitimate one, but most people don't care about UNIX philosophy.

Bugs always happen, and the response to them has nothing to do with the software itself.

See above.

As I said, design decisions. That's subjective.

As if it matters that unit files aren't smaller then init scripts.

That's more complaining about the developers.

Yeah, with systemd you have to restart nmbd and smbd separately, what a fucking nightmare.

In Holla Forums it's cool to hate systemd. Autists think it gives the impression that you know something about init systems.

0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

but those were cancer

do you honestly not know the problems with it

What would I have to do toget a functional linux machine that has not been tainted by any of Lennart's code at all?
Has he produced any other atrocities besides systemd and Pulse audio?

0/10

Kill yourself.

You use gentoo and you put -dbus -pulse -systemd in your USE.

Maybe in a world where software is finished and than works perfectly forever, but in a world where where init systems need to be developed and changed, knowing that you can trust the developer to make sane decisions is important. And I simply trust OpenRC devs more than I trust systemd devs.

How do people STILL fuck this up in the CURRENT YEAR?

By not proofreading and by English not being their first language.

People annually forget to update their CURRENT_YEAR macros in their profile.

avahi

and some other stuff
0pointer.de/lennart/

Do you insist on linux? There's BSD...

AntiX MX15 or GhostBSD.

Straight out of the box, no systemd.

why do people even shill for systemd? If you like it keep using it, but I have not seen a single good thing about systemd yet

runit wants to have a word with you

99% of the time I only see people complaining against it here on Holla Forums. People who like it, never shill and only talk about it when obnoxious anti-systemd people come to whine.

One good thing about systemd is that it is already a standard between all relevant Linux distros. It is very actively maintained and it makes system administration a lot easier. Instead of glueing together lots of different components from random people it's all nicely tied together via systemd modules.

Never had any problems with systemd. Only good experience, it's fast, reliable and I absolutely love it for system management.

The technical "disadvantages" of systemd are fucking nothing major at all. You can find as much (if not more) random complaints about alternatives.

The only true reason why people shill against systemd is that it is a RedHat project and they are paranoid that RedHat has control over other distros by using systemd.

Another reason is that Lenard Poettering made PulseAudio which was released way too early and it had lots of problems. Today PulseAudio just werks, I had no problem what so ever. Linux audio stack is shit in general, so there is nothing absolutely better than PulseAudio anyway.

Honorable mentions:

I don't give a single shit which init systems and systemd. If any other system(s) would replace systemd I would learn it without a problem and would not whine like a fucking child.

I made this reply only to give my honest opinion since hugbox is strong here. For healthy discussion it's good to have different views. This whole thread is bait anyway. Anyone whose been on Holla Forums for some time knows that there is very load minority that hates systemd and other people here don't give a single fuck.

Stay mad anti-systemd autists

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes, it's late here and I'm tired.

Sorry Freetards, Windows wins again😂

Indian shill confirmed, it's only 10PM in Western Europe.

upboated

You're correct. It's 22:08. Good goyim wake up early for work, unlike NEETs.

Only a non-Christian would be tired on the day of the lord.

Void Linux, Slackware, AntiX, PCLinuxOS, *Buntu 14.04, GuixSD

Why are you qualified to comment on init systems if you don't care? What a worthless post.

I know about this subject since I have read a lot about it, but I don't care about systemd. I'm not here to defend it since I'm not invested in it. If my distro of choice would use a different system I would learn it without a problem. I'm sorry you don't like to hear a different opinion.

Amazing, considering that systemd's silly assumptions about use cases are a common complaint.

I love systemd threads. Most entertaining threads on Holla Forums. Thanks OP

systemd makes a lot of common tasks easier, but more complex ones aren't. If you have some problem where you need to boot into recovery and chroot, like on a vps, it's a nightmare and a lot of tools you'd normally use are unavailable or require installing additional tools. You can't edit services vs a chroot when using systemd, for example.

systemd is very Apple-esque, in that if you use it how you're supposed to, it works great. But you try and do something else and you're fucked.

Another example is unit files. They're really easy to make and really convenient. But it removes the ability to do any sort of basic logic that's platform specific, so instead of just having a bash script that handles Linux start up, you have to move that logic into the main program.

Overall I think it's a net loss. You give up some freedom and advanced features for ease of use. That's not what Linux is usually about, and it's more Windows-like than anything.

I'd argue systemd's design philosophy is the worst of Apple mixed with the worst of Windows. Tools designed to be used a specific way to lock you in, and they can only be used specific ways.

Good post.

I don't know what you're talking about, you can certainly do it
What the fuck are you talking about?
If you're chrooting into the partition, you can certainly "edit" the services.
You can't start them via systemctrl WITHIN a chroot, but you can `nohup` but you can certainly systemd-nspawn a container to an installation you'd normally chroot to and do that.

No, it doesn't. It has sysv compatibility and you can run scripts themselves.

Also, you can enable and disable with systemctl in a chroot.

Check 'em

Actually, it's a pretty terrible post full of misinformation likely written by a retard that has no idea what he is talking about.

Sarcasm is hard on the internet. I should have posted something along the lines of

Good post :^), right?

embedded. systemd is bigger than the flash chips in most routers.

Devuan

...

In this specific situation it would help, given that almost everyone on Holla Forums is a sperglord that hates systemd because it triggers their autism, and will believe anything negative they read about it.

Gentoo and Devuan are the only two AFAIK that don't package libcups with a avahi dependency. you'd need to compile it out anywhere else

systemdicks

...

these are pretty much enought to not use it.

Still not said a single reason to use it except

usually because those people don't even know what init system/supervisor is

The code is shit, lennard is shit, red hat is shit, any single alternative works, without adding crazy dependencies on systemd in places they don't even have to be

There's no reason not to use it, it's backwards compatible and it works with syslog.

What's shit about it?
And works horribly
Then create the alternatives to the dependencies
Be the change you want to be
If you can't do that, then you have no right to argue about the dependencies.

...

I take back my moderate words on systemd earlier. I'm not even using systemd, but I'm now using NetworkManager. Because Red Hat wanting to take over Linux and kill projects that compete with Red Hat's. Yesterday, my networking just randomly dropped. Restarting services didn't fix it either. I had to reboot to get networking working again. I've been using NetworkManager for less than a week and it crashed to the point I needed to reboot.

Have some classic Lennart for you
lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/009245.html

Lennart, you're a fag, kill yourself. None of your software works.

What am I supposed to be seeing here? That some retard has a problem that no one else can reproduce but still expects people to try to fix? How about figuring out why it happens so the developers can do their jobs instead of wasting time?

>lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/009245.html
Actually, it's this:

You're going to have a lot of trouble fixing a bug you can't reproduce.

...

[citation needed]

He probably means shitty consumer routers, the kind with 400mhz MIPS processors and usually don't even have hardware NAT

But is it forwards compatible?
If a situationally superior init, logging, etc. system comes along, but which the systemd developers disagreed with the design of (and therefore wouldn't integrate into systemd proper), could it neatly replace that part of an otherwise systemd stack?

How much work would it be (or would systemd developers make it be) for the new module to keep up with systemd's rate of change?

Is systemd API-stable? If so, for how long will that last? And if not, why should we use it in production?

freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart/
freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfaceStabilityPromise/

Yeah, that's why you have to keep samefagging to make it look like SystemD is actually okay.

...

...

Unix is fucking trash and the Unix philosophy is dogma parroted by retards. The modern operating system should have been based on Multics.

Shit. That's what it is.

It's funny, the whole reason Unix came about was because their PDP-whatevers were too shit to run Multics/couldn't afford to buy it.
But people act like Unix was/is the future when its really a knockoff of what could have been.

But I dunno. Given the choice of more accessibility computers (unix) and fancy shit from space that only few could have (multics), I'd probably have chosen Unix too.

Polite sage

Not so fast. As of 14.2, Slackware has surrendered to PulseAudio.

Volkerding reasoned that pulse was the only way to maintain functioning Bluetooth audio in the distribution.

Also, what the fuck is up with the captcha now? Ive gotten Chinese characters for the first time ever. It rejected my attempts five times.

Daily reminder that Plan9 should have deprecated UNIX.

UNIX is Multics though, just a lightweight/stripped down Multics so it would run on cheaper hardware, Ken and Dennis' so-called "UNIX Philosophy" was just Multics' design philosophy but with bloat removed, at least what was considered bloat back then. It pretty much the most overrated shit of all time, UNIX' main aspects were literally ripped off from Multics, such as a hierarchical filesystem and high modularity, UNIX invented literally jack shit, whenever someone says an OS was inspired by UNIX, they really mean Multics.

And before people call me a revisionist, look at the B programming language, it was just a stripped down version of BCPL from Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, thats just what they fucking did, they took existing software and stripped it down. Neither of them invented jack shit

REVOLUTIONARY

just look at it, randomly opened file github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/src/udev/udev-builtin-blkid.c#L39-105

the guy does not even understand what a switch is and he should be in charge of new linux standart

oh really, please tell me the difference between init systems, just one, from the top of your head
and let's just pretend that systemd is init system for this one

I am, that is why I am not using systemd or anything with hard dependency on it, because there is no reason to do that

You can't streq like that, you fucking retard. You could have a switch statement for what streq returns, but not like that.
Go larp somewhere else.

Learn what LARP means before you use it.

He's larping as an actual developer.

SystemDicks developers, continuing to make sane and safe defaults, now have the defaults set to kill background processes on logout. Because Lenny doesn't use tmux it seems.

bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394

I'm pretty pissed, they could have either set it up as a dumb pipe to dmix, and start it on-demand for the special snowflakes that need it, or they could have tried apulse.
Either way, people are already on it, so I'll make sure I get that working before upgrading.

docs.slackware.com/howtos:multimedia:pulseaudio_non-default

Oh no now you have to add 1 line to a text file. The horror.

That's not the point, slackware has usually been really good for keeping things minimal, and there was no reason they had to make it the default.

Go gargle Lenny's cock some more.

Distro maintainers are supposed to set the defaults for the purpose of their distro in the first place. Just because you are a sperglord that freaks out over any small change doesn't mean distro maintainers are the same as you. Distro maintainers will choose the best defaults for their distro, and people that need different functionality can make the changes as they see fit.

Kill yourself sperg

It doesn't really mean anything anyways, distros control the defaults, and there's variation between distros in what defaults they choose.
I should know, I wrote a bunch of salt states in preparation for the switch and had to pretty much normalize the systemd and journald/logind config files with options I felt were best, or a compromise between the two.
Because I maintain both CentOS, Debian and Ubuntu.

OH GOD A ONE LINE PATCH TO SET YES TO NO
I'm sure systemd and other programs relying on it already have much bigger patch files.

Yes, I am definitely the sperg, for acting and communincating in a resonable manner, and you are definitely the rational one, attacking me for no reason other than that I dared to insult islam systemd

Except it's not, you have to strip out pulse, and then install a shim or recompile a bunch of programs.

In what world does systemd depend on pulse?
And what does this have to do with the logind change?

You may want to re-read my post, I was talking about pulse. Slackware is still thankfully systemd-free.

Okay? Then why do you care in the context of slackware? Distros choose the defaults.
Most packages have compile options for both alsa and pulse.

You're literally harping on about nothing that affects you, and is always left up to distro maintainers.

Let's look at your post here
Sure is reasonable. You deserve what you got. Talk shit get hit. Kill yourself faggot.

Kek.
**In polish j is pronounced like y, still keked*

It does affect me, it's the defaults for my distribution. I'm just bitching about the choices.

It's pretty reasonable compared to the high quality discourse you are bringing to the table, like most lenny lovers. :^)

You were bitching that someone set a default you didn't like.
What's forbidding you from choice? It's free software.

I'm bitching that they set defaults that I don't think were the right ones.

What's your issue? That I have an opinion differing from that of the unwashed masses?

And? Distros choose the defaults. As they always have.

Oh you mean the part where I BTFO your shitty opinion with facts about how distro maintainers set defaults, called you a sperg, and told you to kill yourself for directing ad homs at me first at which point you proceeded to bitch about how persecuted you are? Yeah that's real high quality.

And people have opinions on that, as they always have
And statist bootlickers like yourself resent that independent thought, as they always have.

Holy whores, am I on Holla Forums or something? Please, continue on to the part where you had sexual relations with my maternal parent.
Also I never complained about persecution, you colossally illiterate faggot

Uhh, I don't see systemd enforcing itself. They're making software. You can write comparable software if you want, that solves the problem it solves, if something needs the functionality it provides.
The fact that you're calling it "statist" when the system and communities that encompass what you're complaining about are the very opposite.

>statist bootlickers like yourself
Reading comprehension, faggot. You are the bootlicker, because you fly into a rage when I dare dispute the popular opinion.

a) It's already been done. ALSA is in fact a thing, and it offers everything pulseaudio does, other that per-application volume. Applications should handle their own volume controls.
b) It's not a question of equivalent software in most cases, it's the fact that they've managed to coerce devs into using their system in preference to all the others that work just as well. Hence why a lot of the hate is directed at Red Hat, rather than just at the shitware.

On the contrary, it's not an opinion.
You postulated that X is bad because muh choice and then rambled about pulse and whatever to justify it.
Distros always set the defaults.

Pulse is fucking BUILT on ALSA, you god damned retard. ALSA came before it.

You were rambling and complaining about nothing. Just stop embarassing yourself.

No, I said that I disliked the choice (a personal opinion), that I believed it was a divergence from Slackware's usual design choices, and that I thought it could be done better.
However, you interpreted none of this, and just ad-libed what you thought I was saying, because you can't read

And everything I said still stands. You really need to learn to stay on topic.

How much does pottering pay you anyways? You're a cut above pajets, but I doubt it's enough of a cut to make a survival wage. Is that why your primary form of sustenance is boot polish?
But don't worry, it's all ok, after all, distros set the defaults

That's up to the distro. You didn't know how any of this worked, you thought that systemd would forever more be the default to kill background tasks on every distro unless you set it, which couldn't be further from the truth.
You had no idea what you are talking about. For the vast majority of people who don't want to delve into alsa config, Pulse works just fine. Just because you see no problem with sperging out and delving into configuring it just to get HDMI audio or whatever working plug and play after reading a bunch of docs doesn't mean it should be the standard.
That's why you chose slackware. There's your choice. If slackware switched to pulse, then find another distro, or modify it so that you don't have to use it. That's freedom.

Okay, I'm going to bow out of the thread because you are clearly mentally ill. Don't let the boogeyman get you.

Do you have short term memory loss you sperglord fuck?
Let's take a look at where you bitched about how mean I was to you, claiming you dindu nuffin to deserve such harsh treatment
Kill yourself at any time

It's easy to 'win' arguments when you put words in my mouth, isn't it?
And then follow it up with the usual 'kthxbye', because of course you did.

In the last 5 years, I've played with alsa configs exactly twice. Once was because of a horrible chinese soundcard, and I was too broke to afford better. The other was me setting up 3 outputs, so I could listen to music while my girlfriend watched a movie.

But that's not what this is about. I never said I didn't have choice. I expressed an opinion, and you got mad at me for daring to dissent from your totalitarian world view.

Because you can't read, I'll help you out. I'm actually insulting you there, calling you irrational.
I'm starting to think you two may be the same person, how many illiterate systemd lovers can there be in the same thread?
Oh who am I kidding, we all know that the majority of pottering's cult have sub-african IQs

Once again, faggot, you are the one that threw the ad homs out first which is why you got treated the way you did. To call someone else irrational for responding in kind after starting the shitflinging is disingenuous. You argue like an SJW.

This is a very long read but completely worth the 20-30 minutes

blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/

Tl;Dr systemd is bloated, incomplete, lazy, and actually self-hindering. Plus, scope creep is a real issue because, subjectively, you don't necessarily want a single process chain running so many services, especially when it does it so poorly.

I don't think you know what that word means. I'm being perfectly clear and upfront with what I'm doing: flinging shit. You really are rather slow, aren't you?

I wondered what the systemd hooplah was about until someone linked me this list: suckless.org/sucks/systemd

Pic was me.

You mean the forumfaggots that spammed /g/ and here for a year and in our case months on end?
Please go back.

I bet your girlfriend thought that was so hot.
I'm guaranteeing she enjoys the company that her big buck nigger provides. Hopefully you're just blissfully unaware of it, lest you be more pathetic than I thought.

Faggot, it wasn't for her, it was so I could listen to music, instead of the soundtrack to agents of shield

FUCKING NIGGERS STOLE HIS GET.

???

...

github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/428

It's already fucking up tmux and the SJWs from Debian were clamoring to get the tmux owner to add a hard dependency to systemd.

Fortunately, nicm said fuck no.

...

Please stop posting this overused horrible meme.
Thanks!

pretty sad day when imageboard users are reposting Reddit memes as justification for or against anything.

That hippo gif is a Reddit meme

sure.

Stop Shilling systemd, no one likes it!
Even GitHub users hate it
You Poettering PR Fucks will never convince 8ch.net/tech, 16chan.nl, 8ch.pl, librechan.net, Devuan users, Slackware users never ever that systemd is good for progress, innovation or security and privacy

stick to your own safe space at archlinux dot gay and europoor

The reason why Linux is so popular is because it was easy to be taught and supported - systemd completely removes user-friendliness so much that no one can self-learn major distros

You are mentally ill. Seek help

Did you know: If you criticise systemd you're probably a gamergate shitlord? at least acording to SJWsters.

1 lobste.rs/s/zr7qo4/systemd_kills_background_processes
2 lobste.rs/s/iyhczp/systemd_developer_asks_tmux_other
3 lobste.rs/s/kzdwj7/anti_systemd_people

are you some kind of retard?
their design decisions are a very good argument against systemd

Except their design decisions are objectively good decisions if you go on technical merit. Spergs don't care about technical merit though.

I saw somewhere that systemd is compromised. Must've been why I saw so many people shilling it

systemd itself isn't and doesn't have to be compromised. By having so many dependencies it gives black hats an entire restaurant menu of easy targets. Do you trust that HTTP server? gnutls? The QR code library authors? Have you audited that IDN code? Why does your init system even *care* about parsing moonrunes in domain names??

compromised or not, mongolian clusterfuck or not, systemd people are fucking retarded and that's the sole reason I need to not use it

Jesus Christ. I won't even bother to tell you how fucking delusional you are. You probably believe all of that shit is running and in PID 1 by default like all the other retards correct?

Pulse audio was the same faggot as systemD?
That explains a lot.

How are their design decisions objectively good? Provide evidence, don't just shill.

you can't switch on strings in C

...

systemd wanted kdbus in the kernel back in 2014, supposedly in response to car/embedded systems wanting 'better' performance gains. in mid-2015, kdbus got dropped for a rewrite, bus1. bus1 is 'still under development' by systemd's herrman and sievers.

so systemd's hostile take-over of the ipc space is only on a public-facing pause, not halted in the slightest. for now, while systemd's kdbus is required for systemd, remains an out of package requirement, until bus1 comes online. then i imagine another series of hard pushes will be forced in.

ipc message take over will be such a nice shove of grade-pottering dick up our asses, won't it?

god speed, devuan. god speed.

Pulseaudio is utterly shit.
Prepare to be earraped all day.
Stupid resampling for everything.

the truth about systemd

Yes there are problems with it and valid complaints:

* lennart wrote pulseaudio which is annoying and shit

* he's an arrogant freak that either believes in the white priv.
conspiracy theory or abused it as a tool to shut down opponents

* debian got fucking assraped and force fucked into using systemd.
bullied many of their good team members out of the project in doing
so.

* redhat is a corporate psychopath that just optimizes however it can
(and part of this is controlling the direction of systemd)

but... it's not all bad, you don't have to use theses shitty
alt-distros. systemd isn't actually bad code:
github.com/systemd/systemd

it's very well organized and tested. the code is clean and simple and
readable. There are too many fucking features but we can turn them off
and/or compile them out.

arch linux started using it long ago, without anyone forcing them to.
it might be breaking compatability with things like nohup but it does
so to fix mistakes of the past.

I think it's a good time to rethink this stuff. it's not some kind of
psyop project to remove peoples control over their computing. it's
free software which you can fully control.

23:24 < textpunk> ring: why did you delete my systemd thread?23:24 Because we already had two systemd threads and we don't need a third23:24 Someone already told you23:24 < textpunk> nobody told me anything23:25 Someone in your thread complained that there were systemd threads up already23:25 < textpunk> that is censorship23:25 No23:25 I don't mind the things you said23:25 I mind that you made a new thread for them23:25 < textpunk> it is all gone now because you removed it, that is censorship23:26 I still have it23:26 < textpunk> please post it in one of the threads

8ch.net/metatech/res/1227.html#1228

Based ring