So I've heard people on Holla Forums say that anime isn't as fluid as western animation. I did a bit of research...

Don't beat over your head with unnecessary shit.
The shittiest anime is better than the best of western animation. That's all there is to it.

Nichijou

the complete bd box costed as much as good used car, nuff said

is >>>/ani/ ded

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We barely have any drawfags on this site, let alone animators.

Valid point, but even some theatrical anime tend to lack fluidity. Spirited Away's budget was twice as large as that of Akira, but the animation quality, whilst still great, wasn't anywhere near its level. The scene in vid related for example is pretty choppy.

And I don't mean to bag on anime. I'm actually a bigger anime fan than I am a fan of western shows. I'm just making an observation.

it might be choppy, but it works.
you're also glorifying Akira's animation quality too much.

why are we even bringing up budgets now though? average zombie simpson episode costs more to produce than entire anime season

Fair enough. It's no Pinnochio or Peter Pan. But I still think it's visually amazing for the medium its in.

The actual animation in The Simpsons sees like 25% of the cost. The rest is spent on voice acting and writing. Writers for anime don't get paid large amounts since they're not commissioned or hired from a guild, and whilst the voice actors are professionally trained, they're not celebrities. So a majority of the money in anime will go to the animation, even when making movies.

There are a lot of drawfags, some oof us even animate. It's just that we're lazy and the requests are kinda boring

I think Spirited Away was better animation. It had much more life and was able to show more in less frames.

Agree to disagree then. I personally prefer Akira's animation because it bought out a lot of personality to the characters and had subtle details.

Anime market is oversaturated with low-budget content, usually the kind of soft-hentai shows about animu schoolgirls, the kind /a/ watches. That doesnt mean all japanese anime is lazy like that, it just means that when the industry is not doing as well as it used to, great projects like Redline and Little Witch Academy are more rare and for studios to survive, they have to do more cheap shit with less framerates and replacing stretching with simpler "chibi" symbols. Or have the show be 90% of people walking and talking, 10% action.

Of course you cant say this out loud in /a/ without getting banned immediatly. I remember one dumbass trying to tell me how anime is doing better than ever before, despite all veteran main animators and the fucking japanese government itself are worried about its current state. Up to a point the government even gives them funding to help revitalize the market and help inbetweeners and animators with better salaries, so that not all animation work would be deported to Korea and the talent wouldnt die off as more and more veteran animators retire. Good thing is they're doing something about it, instead of just waiting for the bubble to burst and the whole industry crashing.

And /a/ like the blind fanboys they are will deny it to the very end, so really they are part of the problem.

Animator here. You wont see animation in drawthreads since it tends to take time to create something and the thread itself might be long gone by that point.

Any type of animation can fall victim to low budgets.

Anyone else remember when we had those Wacky Races threads and some based user animator did a short bit of /baph/ getting blown up and Holla Forums's reaction?

Good times.

grinning potato shows are hardly fluid animation, they're built around cost-cutting in almost every way including their preference for hiring untalented hipsters

We should really try to restart it, we got enough drawfags and the top 25 is always moving now.

we could never decide on a car design

The Holla Forumsnvertable seemed like a good choice.

They are fluid alright, because 90% of it is done with motion tweening instead of hand-drawing.

All it needs is Tomo/co/ and Bos/co/ riding in the back of the trunk ala Speed Racer

Yeah I do disagree, but I can see your point. I like spirited away more from a techical aspect. It has much more experimental character designs, perspective animation and fluidity. It doesn't focus on characters as much as akira, but it does a better job at movements and creativity.

Only thing I don't like about Akira are the character designs. I know its Katsuhiro Otomo's style, but all the characters look too babyfaced for my liking. I can at least appreciate it in the respect that Otomo does try to give his characters distinctly Japanese facial features and structure instead of going for the standard Mukokuseki look that most anime use.

I can see it, but you'd need to be great at timing the comedy right for it. the western and eastern comedy styles are vastly different, and because the anime style is mostly done with an eastern mindset, it's not really been explored deeply

so much bounce and emotion JUST for a walk cycle
and the original manga beats out the animation once again

biggest flaw in western animation is the celebrity voice actor. granted, if it's someone who's just so amazing with their vocal talents and can improv their way through a script Robin Williams then it's worth its weight in gold

biggest flaw in western animation is the celebrity voice actor. granted, if it's someone who's just so amazing with their vocal talents and can improv their way through a script Robin Williams then it's worth its weight in gold

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And that alone is what ruins the whole Akira experience, but then again, that was in time when eastern industry wasn't so defined by style as now. A lot of artists experimented with different things.

There is also a lot of time between Akira and Spirited Away and a lot of new things were developed by the time Spirited Away hit the public.

I personally like Akira Toriyama's (dragon ball artist) drawings. I just love his vehicle and creature designs.

Forever will my dick be hard because of that movie.

Toriyama is great at drawing monsters and technology, shit at drawing people. Nobody is perfect, sadly.

Was Cell supposed to scare the shit out of me as a kid when he first showed up?

Though I like the idea about bringing back the Holla Forums Wacky Races.

Probably. Guy was pretty damn freaky.

It doesn't ruin the whole experience for me. The designs, whilst a bit weird, aren't unbearable to look at. I'm no massive fan of Redline's art direction either (mainly the use of harsh shadows and bold outlines), but the animation was still smooth and frenetic enough for me to have a good time.

I'm talking mainly as a matter of budget. Hiring a relatively unknown yet sufficiently trained and experienced voice actor is much more cheaper than hiring a big name like Kelsey Grammar or Sam Jackson.

That's because Holla Forums is filled with animation enthusiasts while /a/ is just weebs.

I like both anime and cartoons, but both mediums have been shitting the bed as of late.

JoJo is great and hopefully the new Samurai Jack will live up to its legacy.

low-budget animu > western cartoon
but high-budget western >>>>>>>> enima shit

also, fun fact that tends to trigger anime fags:
over 70 % of all japanes animation is outsourced to korea

Isn't that only for tweening and cleanup? The storyboards, layouts and keyframes are still done in Japan.

from what I've heard (and granted, that info is also from image boards and internet forums), by now it's everything.

That seems kind of hard to believe.

not really.
japanese animation has been going down hill for a while now, and korean media is booming.
there are plenty of full korean shows which are popular in japan and overseas and manhwa is bigger then ever, mainly because they're not fucking stupid and actually have an internet presence outside of fan-translations.

Yes, but the entire production process? Even the storyboards and layouts? That's the bit I find hard to believe.

dude, I'm not gonna pretend like I know how everything works. I'm not from that line of work.
I just remember seeing seeing a lot of discussions and readin a lot of 2chan translations of mangakas being upset that their work was instantly sent to korea and they didn't have any input on the project because the actual animation was hundreds or thousands of miles away from them.

*in that

I'm just saying.

Korea is replacing Japan as the go-to place for foreign cartoons.

Korean animation and comics are going to replace Japanese anime and manga in terms of popularity in the West.

Korean videogames might also become more popular in the West.

Japan's glory days are done and they'll be irrelevant even to the weebs that would switch to superior Korean stuff.

that's been the case for a while.
it's just because of the relatively new generation of consoles that they regained some temporary popularity.
sony moved to the US.
Nintendo is dying.
every major jap dev has been reduced to a vanity studio.
japanese gaming has been dead for almost 10 years, and it's not gonna get better.

It's a depressing state of affairs, isn't it?

Wait until Korea either buys out one of the console brands or create their own brands to capitalize on the Western console market.

Since Korea is filled with PC mustards, I won't be surprised if they start their own service to compete with Steam.

Japan is already dead in the water, Korea is practically gonna be the new weeb's paradise.

It was bound to happen, Japan is becoming more irrelevant if they haven't already.

I think it's actually pretty exciting.
it's a new perspective on entertainment that actually feels exciting.
well, korean movies and games are still kinda shit because, well, they cost a lot to make so the risk is still kinda too high.
but reading manhwa and watching korean animation, it's so refreshing to see something with eastern elements that doesn't follow the japanese stigma of moe culture and shone self-insert bullshit.

*shonen

I didn't grow up with a lot of anime (I just got into the medium like 3 or 4 years ago), but I did grow up with Japanese games. Maybe it was inevitable, but it's still depressing to see Japan fall from their grace this hard when it comes to their media.

You're probably right.

Will there be Korean animation threads on /a/?

I hope.
but that's not gonna happen, because weeaboos are the worst

Why not have it here on Holla Forums instead?

sure, why not. go ahead.
though since most people on here are DC/marvel fags, I'm not sure if you'll get that much traffic.

they've still dominated the handheld market & unless sony decides to try again after their lackluster performance with the vita, they're going to have the monopoly (aside from the obvious phone games)

doubtful. they refuse to believe anything is worthy of the title "anime" unless it's japanese

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Its incredibly animated but in terms of plot and characters its nearly incoherent. And thats me watching the recobbled cut.

iirc, it was mostly made by the seat of their pants. they animated scenes they thought were cool, then decided to try and write a plot around that

what does that have anything to do with that animation?

I've seen a couple of Korean animations (mainly done by Studio Mir). They look really good aesthetically, but some of the animation looks a bit too choppy. Still, I'd be interested to see new blood in the animation medium. I remember Hideaki Anno saying that anime may die in the next five years and that the center of the medium may be Korea or Taiwan.

I seriously hope the image you posted is not one of your "animations", because I have seen Japanese furry artists do a better job than you.

Yeah, barely, assuming you can get every single one of them on board. Even Holla Forums draw threads have been dead lately.

You need a large excess of drawfags before anything like that is going to work out. 90% of drawfags won't be interested of working on something this niche, and another 90% won't know how to do proper animations, and of the 10% that can animate 90% won't be interested of doing something as work intensive as animating just like that.

Have you read their laws regarding video game development? It's damn near impossible to even make mods in Korea without getting skinned alive by the government with its fees, let alone video games.

more

are there any particular drawing techniques that make the rough phase of animation easier? I see a lot of people use a tripod girp and draw sketchy as fuck, but I want to know if there's more of a technique to their lines, thought process, and grip.

Is it? Thats how shows like Avatar were basically made. Everything concerning the visual aspect (not counting early concept art) of the show was outsourced to korean animators.

just read about this in a book i got on drawing

tripod grip has 3 phases

gripping further away from the tip of the pencil for light lines & easier curves
gripping a relatively short way up the pencil for more controlled curves, but not too dark of lines
gripping basically directly over the sharpened tip and having fine control over the drawing

of course, none of these necessarily make animating easier as much as they make the drawing easier to get certain effects with

yep, there's also the overhand grip and various other grips and variations, the weird thing is the better animators use a short tripod grip and makes some sketchy as hell lines that almost look like chicken scratch. Seems like bad practice to me on both accounts, but perhaps there is a reason for both these things,

This. You cant make a thread about animation in /a/, they dont understand shit about the actual process. You might as well call /a/ /loli/ at this point since thats the only thing that interests them.

Depends what you mean by rough. No for keys, and no for inbetweening.

Professional studio-level the animation tends to go through processes of sketching, roughs, inbetweening and finally inks. If you're just a lone animator with Toon Boom and cintiq on your lap, odds are you're going to go straight to inks and cleanup the thing as you go just to save time. Always good to just loop the finished scene for a while, see if the scene works at all, and finally when inbetweening and the scene are done, your eye can spot any rough spots in the ink-line.

Sure, all the tutorials or pros doing their job urge you to sketch, then cleanup but if you dont have a team doing something and you want to make something all by yourself, you have to cut corners somewhere, not for any other reason but for the fact doing animation alone will take fucking ages.

In terms of drawing, whatever makes it easier for you when it comes to drawing itself and that follows more of the general drawing rules. You're not going to get kicked out of a studio just because you hold your pencil weird or do your sketches super-sketchy before making them more clear for the cleanup-animator to know what lines he should copy. Efficiency and the final look of the scene is way more important. My guess for the ultra-sketchy lines is that they're not really concerning themselves with details yet, but more of the overall movement of the scene and the sketch-lines are more concerned about capturing certain kind of movement or an arc, than details of a character going from A to point B. If your dancing ballerina looks like she's got a rake stuck up in her ass when she moves in the rough sketch, she's going to look like that in the finished scene as well.
Easier to look for the right movement in very rough sketches and pick something that looks really fluid and natural.

As for inbetweening, theres no real shortcuts for the process if you want to do everything hand-drawn. Theres experimental programs that can make the process a little less time-consuming and overall less miserable but youre still going to spend a lot of time doing it. Personally I think anyone who wants to learn how to draw should do inbetweening. You cant help but learn to become better when you draw the same thing with slight differences over and over again. The magical 10,000-drawings line gets closer super-fast.

I'm sure you can find more animated furry pron all by yourself. Don't be proud of your low power level like the rest of this board, do something about it.

I am exactly that. I've also noticed what you are talking about where the work flow professionals and others recommend for traditional animation don't work for a one man animator as I'll often become overwhelmed by the amount of work that goes into one of my projects and end up abandoning it for something easier. I appreciate you taking the time to break down a more reasonable work flow.

So I guess another question going off that work flow, are there any books or videos of working out the sketch phase and going straight for the inks? That seems like quite the challenge but it makes sense when it comes to saving time. I know some artists can do it but I've always used the general gesture>construction>inks workflow so to cut that out seems pretty intimidating.

pretty sure animator's survival kit should cover it. i know that harry partridge did a series on animating that was what I based my animation information on it

other than that, the only advice I can give is just learn to stick with it. maybe take breaks to do other stuff (commissions, other projects, fan art, stream, etc) but no one said that animating was an easy gig. hell, imagine if you didn't have the cintiq or toon boom

also, feeling kinda jealous here

you get a cintiq and toon boom. i'm stuck with a ugee and whatever free software i can find

Its all a matter of your personal preference, whatever helps you build the desired effect on the scene and animation, whether that be consistency or fluid movement on the animation, like say the simplest example, the "pendulum"-tutorials arcing lines where you can put the numbers of frames as a point of reference how the movement should go, if you cant perceive the movement in your head well enough otherwise.

My sketches tend to be very rough, almost to a point of stick figures (with rough pelvis and chest), because all they do is establish the "bone structure" and the placement of elements in the scene. Of course if the character has any clothes or features that flow and move on their own accord on top of the character, I tend to animate them separately, then fix the original animation underneath. And even that can vary scene by scene. Closeups my sketches can be even simpler. Animation which requires a greater deal of anatomy to it I tend to do a little bit more complex sketches.

Rarely if ever I do full detailed sketches, I just draw straight on top of the rough stick figure/doll and use my own judgement when cleaning up the final thing.

Like if you watch the same animation loop for 20-30 times and your eye catches something that looks weird, you should probably check it out and fix it. But by the point you cant see any weird popups in the ink-lines during the animation loop, odds are an average person who watches your stuff wont spot them either. Kinda like housepainting really, ever done that? Even the professional housepainters judge something by their own eye. If paint gets splattered in some really hard-to-see place that nobody would see unless they would hug the wall like retards, then it doesnt really matter.

"looks good" is the only thing that matters. And in case of doing your own animation, the fact you start and FINISH something is also what really, really matters. Pick a project you can finish. Start with something simple, dont do it like me and lead a 4-student team in a school and do 6 minute-long animation. I finished the project within the deadline but I had to go hell and back to do it, especially few students just sat on facebook all day.
Do something like a minute or two, technical practice. Like "animation project where theres characters with great facial emotions and acting when they're talking". Or "2 muscled dudes or girls beat the crap out of each other with cool kung fu moves, with a goal to learn anatomy from all kinds of camera angles and everything I dont know how to do well yet."

That sort of stuff.

You can pirate a copy of Toon Boom Animate Pro 2 pretty easily. Also, seeing as they try to give copies to semi-popular animators all the time I don't think they care to much as long as they get some credit. As for the cintiq, I wouldn't be to jelly. I spent several paychecks on it back when I had a job and it ended up having a broken tilt function. Still useful and for 800 dollars I could have done a lot worse.

Gotcha, so you still do sketches but the trade off is you don't do detailed sketches, you just jump straight from the basic shapes to the final inks. I guess I'll also aim a bit smaller like you said. I really need to start finishing my work.

Also, love your "follow through" on the girl. That's another weak area of mine I need to put time into.

yeah, but japanese furry artists do that for $$$ and they only focus on that, while I animate rarely in my free time.

what program you using bruh?

photoshop ._. (I'm too lazy to instal and try toonboom)

color me impressed.

I still use a 11-year old A4-wacom tablet that cost 100 euros back in the day. Miraculously it still gets drivers nowadays.

Animating clothes and long hair is really fun, you're going to enjoy it a lot. If you want to start from scratch, do something like animate a long string that moves in a wind, then someone yanks it from the other end and wave goes through, then someone grabs one end and zigzags it around fast and slow on the screen.

Fun fact, the main animator of skullgirls does all of her roughs on Photoshop. Another cool technique which (I might try one day too) is how the metallic weapon is actually a 3d-model imposed on the paper with motion-tweening, so all she has to do to get all the angles right with the weapon is to draw on top of the 3d model. Handy when you need to animate something with consistent geometrical shape.

Why can't you missed abortions stick to your containment board?

It's only natural for the uninfected to seek escape from a quarantine.

Even when it's not TMS?

Not necessarily true ya nitpicking shitposter fuckwit. Different animation means different things. It's all up to interpretation. Western stuff is pulling the same lowest common denominator shit the East is.

I love that gals consistency, and that games jiggle fully sold me. Shame that companies a bunch of hypocrites and it got censored eventually. I'm not sure if the main artist liked it, as she loves sexy, jiggly women.

Nah, WKAR does it for free. The only thing he sold this Kemoket was a body pillow.

I can only think of two Japanese artists that do commissions.

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The artist is friends with some of the worst SJWs out there so take that as you will. Is Kinuko a hypocrite? Maybe.

Go fuck yourself.

I'm not sure if Kinuko is a hypocrite, but I meant Lab Zero. The creators of the Skullgirls. They censored a bunch of stuff in game and covered up animations. Oh well

It should be obvious that I'm only referring to the TMS episodes, as that was the only Japanese studio working on the show.

So you're basically saying The Flintstones was one of the first slice-of-life anime

His goal with Cell, and Freeza really, was to create a design that was unnerving and creepy.

If it at least creeped you out, I think he accomplished what he set out to do… 'Til his editor up and ruined it.

One of the flaws of the West, sadly. Unless you work for Disney or Dreamworks or even Sony, you'll struggle to create something.

It's why I find Don Bluth's grassroots Dragon's Lair movie endearing, if a little far fetched. It's also a little sad that man who once had so much clout in animation can't even get a movie made through big studios anymore because they all just want 3D CGI movies now.

The Big Animation Industry is not kind to those who work outside the big studios.

What is there to contribute to? This thread is shit, it's a self-congratulatory circlejerk by people with opinions on thing they know nothing about. The less they know the more opinions they have. Your one line shitpost with a picture made by a notorious shitposter is not much of a post either.

Just asking: why does nuPPG have so many animation errors? Even other noodle-armed potato head toons aren't subject to such errors (at least not as frequently as nuPPG) Is it simply due to incompetent proofreaders, or are there other factors? How much of the animation in it is done in-house compared to outsourcing?

Can't tell if you're defending /a/ or Holla Forums.

Inexperienced hacks who think they're the shit because they went to Calarts

At least anime can be waifus' cartoons will never be waifus tbh.

That's because you are retarded.

Compelling argument why this thread is bad might be nice. So far you come off as a salty /a/ weeb who has nothing worthwhile to say, while people actually talk about animation and give animation tips to each other here.

Simple answer might be them not reaching the deadlines in time so much of the polishing doesnt happen at all. That, or they hired a really shitty third party cleanup artist.

iirc, the big reason bluth was such an amazing animator is 'cause he's basically autistic & has no friends or close family

you dumb fuck. of course there are cartoon waifus

why take the bait?

Nice assumption, my friend. I'm far from that.
You have people in this thread claiming that the totalitarian shithole known as South Korea is a place with actual creative freedoms. There is hardly anything good in this thread, just opinions about things people know nothing about.
Only a few people in this thread have done it. The rest of the thread has been people patting themselves on the back how great they are for not being from another board.

It seems you replied to the wrong post.

And /a/ has absolutely none of those people. So Holla Forums wins by default.

If you weren't new as fuck like all your redditor/tumblrite compatriots you would know that /a/ had weekly sakuga threads.

More like monthly, if even that. /a/ too interested to talk about soft-ero high school dramas.

So? Soft-ero stuff has been around since forever and now it's suddenly shameful. Have you gone mad? What do you do here every day? Talk about the most recent noodlearm cartoon and shipping everyday?

yeah, sorry. haven't had my coffee yet

Not him, but after a while sakuga threads started to really pick up. I think it was after kvin made that one article on ANN. Weekly generals started to get made. Last one I really remember what when ibcf made his Yoshinori Kanada video (which ended up being great sans a few errors). I left 4chan after. Shame not a lot followed. Our /a/ still has some animation threads, but they tend to focus more on cg these days. Same goes for out /m/ Gone, like tears in the rain.

I hear you, current /a/ on both boards just sucks. Plain and simple. Things used to be better.

So does this board. It has been dead ever since you let people have Steven Universe shit here. Face it, this board went the same way as old Holla Forums. Dead since mid 2015.

I always found /m/ to be a better place to discuss animators and directors anyway. I've heard some wild stories about animators like Ichiro Itano or Mitsuo Iso. There were some nice threads on our /m/ when the animator expo was going on.

Does anime adhere to the 12 Principles Of Animation in any way? Obviously these principles should not be relied upon as a crutch for actual animation skill, but I'm interested.

No, /a/utist, letting people like badong things didn't ruin this board. You retards are constantly chimping out over naruto and other shit yet /a/ is still one of the worst boards on the site, definitely the worst entertainment board.

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I hate how people have mystified these things. Most of this is physics and physiology, pure and simple, and Japanese animators study and do these things more than anyone else in the West nowadays. You see their sense of timing not just in the characters, but in the special effects, in explosions and wind and water and particles that no one in the West even dares try to animate by hand, outside of Disney features.

I'm really a fan of this animation style, by Hiroyuki Okiura, since it's something you don't see often in Japanese animation. The movement of these characters is three dimensional and has a lot of weight and detail. It reminds me of the animation in Peter Pan except more restrained.

Nigger, did you seriously just mix up North and South Korea?

i like both, honestly. and i'm someone who generally hates the animation in anime

i think that maybe, much like what they did with VHD: Bloodlust, they could try to improve the framerate a bit

I remember watching the Spider Tank scene from the original Ghost In The Shell movie and being blown away when I realized that it was hand drawn and wasn't CGI. It just moved so much like a 3D object.

Though Okiura didn't animate that scene, he probably supervised it, which, in the case of certain supervising animators in Japan, means he must've redrawn it to better fit his style.

Nope, go look at the laws regarding entertainment like cartoons and video games in South Korea. South Korea is a shit country and I have had actual Koreans tell me how shit it is.

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Storyboards in Avatar were still done by the the American division. They gave the Korean team more control for Korra, but there were still a significant amount of American storyboard artists working on it. The Koreans handled the animation and cleanup.

is TVP or Toonboom Animate Pro better for traditional animation?

would anyone know anything about designing and drawing characters for puppet animation? This part always stumps me. Whenever they are actually finished they just never look professional to me.

there's your problem

Sadly, being realistic about the workload, puppet animation is the best way for a one man animator to go about things.

Some of us just like animation regardless of where it originates. I think both modern cartoons and anime are getting shittier, and discussions of which are generally less shitty is retarded.
For discusion, I do prefer Holla Forums though because even though it's partially fur/waifufaggotry, /a/ is almost entirely loli/waifufaggotry.

Puppet animation will never look as nice and professional as well drawn, well animated, traditional frame by frame animation, but that takes far too long these days, especially with industry deadlines. The best you can hope for, is creating an extensive library of body parts, tweening them with a good eye for movement, weight etc, and creating new parts on the fly if necessary.
Making puppet animation look good mostly comes down to how good of an animator you are, and that comes from gittin gud at traditional animation skills.

Game programs like Spriter or Spine come with free trials, and I know Spine comes with pre-built examples, if you need help figuring out how to construct and rig a 2d character.

Some puppet animation can look fantastic (if I recall correctly, Russia's made quite of few great paper puppet films) I think the problem is that most people treat puppet animation as merely a short-cut for streamlining the animating process, when it should be treated more it's own medium like stop motion.

This sound like stop motion animation. If you are talking about the current usual animating figures in flash. Then go for the jumping jack puppet as inspiration and example.

bump

Can we be more like /a/ and ban faggots that aren't praising comics and America?

How long do I have to filter these retards?

If you want a circle-jerk, you can go to Tumblr.

second to last frame was redone to be last frame

come on man

it was pretty much decided some form of the adam west mobile

Holla Forums had more trouble coming up with a car

not with how they have been acting lately

Not really they ultimately decided on Hitler's car.

I think the confusion here was whether Holla Forums was going to be Dick Dastardly or not.

Personally with the recent drama that's been going on an SA Goon and possible a Holla Forums spurdo would fit the bill for Dick and Muttley