>You notice Ozai (and the Fire Nation really) is a better lead antagonist than all of Korra's

think of Ozai like this:
by the time he became king, the reasons for the war were forgotten. All that is left is the war itself

He didn't have a proper master plan.

Burning the Earth Kingdom seems like a really dumb plan.

I prefer the Red Lotus myself. They should have just had them as the whole series antagonists

Sozin used the power of the comet to wipe out the air nomad tribes
Ozai's specific purpose in burning the Earth Kingdom sought to deprive the people of any hope for victory. The end goal is to subjugate these people after all

That was a sales pitch to try to convince the avatar. Colonial and imperial expansion in the real world was occasionally justified similarly to bleeding heart voters in the 19th and early 20th century, though that was hardly the main reason. Profit, power, security and glory come before that, and the fire nation gained plenty of each through the course of the war.

Sozin's mistake was thinking the Avatar's concerns were worldly rather than spiritual: Roku didn't dispute the notion that colonial subjects would be better off (and if you accept Korra and/or the comics as canon (or look at real world parallels), Sozin was right in that regard), he disapproved because it would upset the spiritual balance.

Don't forget that he also wanted to start the fire.

But he didn't start the fire. It was always burning since the world's been turning.

That does make him seem a bit better, but it still makes me think he's not as good as Sozin.

Red Lotus were pretty good. I'd have been okay with them replacing the other villains, even though Amon's still my favourite.
Honestly, if Korra had stuck to one villain rather than two semi-satisfying ones and two shit villains, it would've been a lot better. But this is a discussion for another time.

test.

Anime garbage belongs in /a/, even if it's just wannabe anime garbage.

fuck u all, korra was the greastest tv show of all fucking t7me, it literally changed the landscape of cartoon FOREVER and if U didn't notice, it's still being discussed today unlike rucking ATLA which is SHIT compared to KORRA fuck ALL OF U

Wait, isn't it based on Tang Dynasty China? With a few undertones of Maoist China as well (see: Fire Nation attacking Air Temples, which is meant to reference the destruction of Tibetan monasteries by the PRC).

Time to go hard mode boys:

Was the Fire Nation supposed to be a metaphor for Nazi Germany, or was it in fact a metaphor for internationalist Communism which seeks to conquer the world and replace the "natural order" of nationalism with a single ubiquitous culture and financial system.

Geez wiz, take a wild guess goyim.

Nah it was plaincy fascism.

I guess MLP had that one episode. Dunno.

Didn't we just have this same thread not too long ago?

I think it's more general inspiration than anything else (i.e. Japan/Fire Nation as small island nations aggressively expanding due to newfound superiority - Sozin's Comet/Westernisation - over their neighbours)

Ozai was actually a pretty mediocre villain. He wasn't much more than a stock evil overlord.

However, what made him work was that he was so mysterious for most of the series that you didn't know that and it allowed you to fill in the gaps in your own mind.

Amon had potential to be a much better main villain if they didn't shit the bed with him. Either way, both of Ozai's children were lightyears better written than anything in Korra.

Fire Nation was a metaphor for fascist nationalism in general, where when a single nation tries to become the entire world, things go down the shitter.

Oddly enough, Amon at the start of Korra was also a metaphor for how international communism is bad, since he tried to boil away all the distinct cultures of his world into a single, unified, and equal culture, which as the Fire Nation proved before is terrible for the world at large.

Of course, then they shit the bed after the first season.

Oh, yeah, I wish Korra had any characters as good as Zuko or Azula. Pretty much everyone was unlikable by that last season.

This is a dandy tumblr impersonation.

Every place should have a "A:tLA is superior to A:LoK" going at any given time in their cartoon/comic board for the truth must be told over and over again.

And if Amon was the villain the whole time, that would have made for very boring fights. Even more boring than the ones we actually got. Red Lotus would have been more action/adventure oriented, but their ideology was/is stupid.

Ozai wasn't the true antagonist of TLA you idiots, he was just a MacGuffin, Azula was the true villian

Korra was basically about the battle between progressives and conservatives, the Avatar was a metaphor for tradition and she had to deal with her increasing irrelevancy in the modern world, furthermore, all the main villians were progressives using modern politics and technology to level the playing feild between benders and non-benders. The moral of Korra ends up being to balance tradition with progress and essentially that its good to be a moderate

TLA's moral is basically teaching the world to live in harmony and each element needs the other elements to find balance and make life possible

The Fire Nation just became the dominant nation because they had superior technology to the rest of the world thanks to their natural ability to smelt metal. It wasn't about them being fascist, in fact, they really weren't any more or less fascist than the Earth Kingdom. They just felt themselves the superior benders who should have authority over the world.

Though I would say that the problem with Korra is that while try to struck a balance, they always lean more towards progressive, if not, progressive that Korra herself agrees to. She always reactions instead of think, and always blames others for her actions.
I dunno, I think it's hypocritical for Bryke to criticize progressionism and then make the show progressive.
Korrasami anyone?

It's very hard to portray Marxism as bad on TV.

Korrasami was an asspull thrown in at the last minute to pander to SJWs. The show's ratings were downtown and critics were beating on it.

It helps that straight guys who play at SJW junk but aren't down with man-on-man have a habit of throwing in girl-on-girl since it fits their porn fantasies.

The fire nation was a metaphor for 19th Century colonial Imperialism, with a side order of Genocide once Ozai lost his shit.

Don't be an SJW. The Fire Nation are the Axis Powers (namely Imperal Japan) in Tang Dynasty clothes with some Maoism.

Matter of fact, the one area that's inspired by Japan the most is Kiyoshi Island.

fuck off

Though I agree with the pandering, seasons 3 and 4 were written together, at the same time. 2 had yet to appear and was being animated while they wrote 3 and 4 and started to storyboard 3.

Aside from point number 2 the others would apply to the majority of our own world. The antagonists just went about it in ways that made no sense because they also wanted to be in charge except for Zaheer who was just stupid.

I still don't understand how people forget this factor.

...

You left out how the last time humans and spirties were in the same world, spirits were stomping humans like ants and Korra really didn't have any grounds to figure they shouldn't be seperate. Let alone how she didn't actually discuss WHAT she was doing, the pros, and the risks with with anybody besides her lapdog Tenzin.

Go away SJW.

>>>Holla Forums
>>>/twitter/
>>>/tumblr/
>>>/reddit/

Yes..the Fire Nation are white people…even though their names are like some of the Japanese and some Chinese.

But user, anyone who is bad is obviously White :^)

I remember that post. To their credit, there were tumblr posters calling out that post for how it was SJW garbage. It was pointed out that no, Whites aren't the ones with war, conquest, and mass murder. Complete with pointing out Imperial Japan and its link to the Fire Nation.

*It was pointed out that no, Whites aren't the only ones with war, conquest, and mass murder.

They have more in common with Imperial Japan. And as I said in , the Air Nomad genocide is based more on the attack on Tibet by the PRC.

Was too lazy to change the filenames.

wasn't that what they did with korra season1? like, the guy going "If we can't bend, neither can you"

so we're agreed

best korra villain is red lotus run by amon

The Japanese are the whites of Asia.

Intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humour.

I didn't say that I agreed with anti-colonialism Rhodesia all the way fam, I just realized that the show portrayed an anti-colonial message

no, that's mankind in general, bro

unless you see any neanderthals running around

Yeah, 3 and 4 were written together but apparently so was 1 and 2 as well (I saw a picture of the script for Book 2 dating back to 2010)

Ok, so have Amon running the Red Lotus and preaching the equalization stuff for the whole series with Korra wanting to fight him head on but realizing that even if she defeats him, the problems he's brought light to and created won't be solved with force.

Like Japan, the Fire Nation did nothing wrong.

The whole Benders are keeping down non-benders point was shoddy anyway. Not only did we not see signs of X-Menlike conflict between the two in TLA, but a significant amount of the rulers we saw in the show weren't benders.

I frankly don't blame them for dropping the Bender VS Non-Bender schtick. To begin with it came off as an attempt to ape X-Men in a failed attempt to look relevant.

Yeah, it's not like the whole world was recovering from a century-long conflict instigated and perpetuated by the a genocidal ruling-class of benders or anything

Or that they were experiencing the advent of an industrialized society and that being a non-bender put you at a substantial and immediate disadvantage in an economy that would quickly lose the need for unskilled labor due to automation as well as the magical powers of a certain portion of the population.

The bender/non-bender dichotomy was rich with potential, especially with its potential to parallel the class conflict most in the Western world are currently experiencing or have experienced historically, which is probably why it was so ineptly handled and jettisoned to spend more time on Korra's relationship drama.

Why are you so easy to trigger?

It would have actually been really interesting if they put more thought into it. It feels kind of shitty that Korra's more based on European politics if anything. Asia was also interesting in the 1920s.

It was fucking bullshit how that whole thing ended, too. They just pretended the whole issue ended with the end of Amon. But the underlying problems that caused the rise of the Equalists was never actually dealt with.

The Fire Nation is clearly based on Imperial Japan, but with a pretty clear motive to start with; they industrialised, and need resources to expand and a burgeoning population that needs space to settle. Add a line of rulers with world-conquering ambitions and you get an empire.

More or less imperialism in general. (Makes sense, given Imperial Japan basically saw the European colonial empires and decided they'd better get in on the action before they ended up just another conquered colony)

It really looks like Bryke and Demartino were out to throw in whatever they throught was cool for either them, select areas of the internet (namely shippers, hence the Korra/Asami/Mako train wreck), or Korra's teen audience. The whole thing with Republic City being Avatar's version of New York comes off as a case of this. Especially considering how every season after largely ignored it.

All considered, I wonder if Korra might have turned out better if not only did more of TLA's team come back for Korra but they had it as a spirtitual successor instead of a sequel.

But what about President Raiko? He was a non-Bender who was president!

Probably. After Korra, I feel like they did so well with ATLA because they had other people to tell them when something was a dumb idea and to shape their ideas into better stuff.

He was, but they never really touched on that. You'd think after all the Amon stuff, benders would be hesitant to put a non-bender in power because they'd think he might be biased or something.

I loved those sickass portraits. Wish they'd released more of such art before they did LoK.

it would be the only way to convince them that there is no saving the lesser races. all must be purged

You left out how Raiko was portrayed as a two-bit politician getting in the way of Korra ala the Council from Mass Effect. Even though a large chunk of his shown plans were actually warranted (see not helping Korra and Zuko's grandson start a war).

Yall wrong, the Fire Nation was heavy inspired on Imperialistic Japan, very militaristic and centralized.

The Earth kingdom was based on China: Decentralized and more bucolic, with Ba Sin Se representing the Mainland as the culturally rich center of the empire
Notice how big their continent is, mirroring real life China`s huge land size

Now the Water Tribe and Wind Monks were based on Eskimo and Tibetan culture, with the Avatar being pretty much a copy of the Dalai Lama, Buda`s re-incarnation even the process of selecting the avatar is similar, as Aang chose toys that belonged to his past lifes

All mixed up with a healthy those of Kung-Fu

I meant Tibetan Monks, not tibetan culture

Not to be confused with Shaolin Monks, that`s an entire different thing

That too- they wanted him to be an inefficient leader, but half the time, he was right.

And that's a problem with Raiko. If he's suppposed to be a shoddy leader, then doesn't that defeat the point of framing his appoitment to president as some great leap forward for Bender and Non-Bender relations? Let alone how his actions more often than not were warranted for how Korra acted (see plotting to start a war and keeping the portals open which unsurprisingly led to havoc in Republic City).

Hell, one poster on Spacebattles pointed out that Raiko's portrayal was actually a part of trend where LoK, despite all the praise for how progressive it was, actually pushed reactionary politics. Namely for going with Hereditary Monachy Is Good, Other Governments Worse.

Legend of Korra season 1 has not!communism in the shape of Amon and his bender-hating cult. He was also himself a bender and thus an hypocrite.

...

Right up there with metaclorians and the force.

Yet they were the only brown ones in the LA movie

The whole thing with Raava and Vaatu was shoddy. Namely for how it shoehorned what is a manichean conflict into Avatar's setting.

Now, the Avatar is less of a Force for Balance than a Force for Good. Especially since Vaatu was presented as some flat ultimate darkness with no points going for him.

As was already noted, the Fire Nation also has clothing from the Tang Dynasty and some Maoist China (see the genocide of the Air Benders).

I would say the best description of the FN would be that it's a representation of East Asian despostism and conquest.

what is the stereotype for earthbenders and their nation? they're stubborn, like their element. Ozai decides the only way to deal with that indomitable spirit is crush it entirely.

#brutal lmao wow, so poignant, omg like really, i can't even, hashtag

they intended for Korra to be a more "mature" take on the Avatar world, and the best way to go about that is to remove any trace of nuance from the show's philosophy, and replace it with a shallow fairytale about good vs evil.

The Rape of Nanking never happened.

Oookay Holla Forums

Is that even a Holla Forums belief? They aren't Japanese nationalists. Those are the only people who say that the Rape of Nanking never happened.

How Legend of Korra handled the enemy factions managed to have less nuance than TLA.

The Fire Nation were presented as conquerors, but you had Zuko and Azula's journeys to show some perspective for them. You had the Season 3 where it was shown that the FN's populace was taught propaganda demonizing the Avatar and glorifying the war. And perhaps most importantly, you had villainous or at least questionable sorts in the sides opposing the FN like Jet.

In LoK, you never really had any serious attempts at providing perspective for the enemy factions. The Equalists were portrayed as a bloodthirsty mob used by a super-villain, Unalaq was a JRPG foe, Zaheer's Gang ultimate plan turned out to be muh chaos, and while they tried to put some spotlight onto Kuvira she ended up having too little focus.

And really, it's not like Korra herself ever really tried to engage with the grievances of her major foes. Sure, they had her talk with Toph where the latter went on about how about Korra's foes had points but went too far, but that's really putting a band-aid on a severed leg by that point. Even against Kuvira's army, Korra was still running around smashing her enemies and just had some amateur therapy session with Kuvira at the last minute.

Much like fire, which spreads and spreads until what it's consumed has burnt out. How often is a tree recognisable after it's been charred to cinders?

And there's propaganda.

If something's edgy enough you can bet Holla Forums will at least pretend to believe it. They're just contrarians that didn't get enough attention from their parents.

if that's true, how did they live in harmony with the other nations for so long? remember, it was "until the fire nation attacked". if their nature is to conquer, it would have always been perpetual

They are fantasy Imperial Japan after all.

I found him bland and forgettable, personally.

The fight with Aang was cool, but otherwise meh?

Prudent containment. If they really were perpetually pissing off every other nation, they'd be thin on resources and people awfully fast. It's better to stockpile things and let restless enmity build so you just steamroll shit that you spent the meanwhile convincing you're a pretty alright guy.

The joke is that as flat he may be, he still turned out better than whoever LoK had.

No, it's not. Ignore the "muh Holla Forums boogeyman" faggot.

I just finished watching the first three seasons of Avatar. According to the wiki, Azula's insanity should be progressing however this progress is only found in the books.

Are the books worth reading? And is Korra worth watching? I vaguely recall explicit lesbianism around Korra's ending as well as just general outrage.

No and no.

imagine what they could've done with that premise

a world where there is no war because there's too much good. the avatar, the only person capable of bending all four elements, is the one to bring back balance by basically being evil

yeah, the factions should have actually had more exploration done to them, but each season had less than 20 episodes iirc. combining that horrible pacing problems therein with enemies you'd need serious time to explore their possible depths, it's just set up to fail from the beginning

I do, however, think it's a clever idea for them to explore the themes of different governmental ideas (amon's communistically dragging down the advantaged, unalaq being so devout in his teachings that he can justify enslaving his sister tribe, the red lotus' hatred of authority and government, and kuvira's nationalistic and socialistic efforts to reunite and reconquer her homeland)

hell, they could've even brought zaheer back to fight against kuvira because of their differing ideals, having an air vs earth match in a similar vain as a fire vs water match. there's so much if they actually pushed for more episodes per season, and probably even more time between seasons, but their own shortcomings in the matter only served to make a mediocre show into a crap one

the other thing i'm surprised they never explored is the fact that she killed her blood relative, directly, in the second season, but what good is character development?

I do see Korra pulling an Arthas.

What teachings? He hops from sort of Southern Water Tribe supremacist Luddite to muh darkness. Even when looking at trying to reunite man and spirit it's never actually shown WHAT makes him figure that bringing Vaatu back would be a dandy idea.

Face it, Unalaq's a JRPG villain.

he's worse, he's that blue haired faggot from final fantasy x

She apologized to his kids and they said "Meh…oh wait, what about mother?" and that was that. The kids don't care. Even Korra doesn't care that they held back her allies so that Unalaq could come back in the fight and destroy the past lives. Korra's okay with her cousins who were fine with killing her.

What a train wreck.
Think of all that wasted potential

It has happened before. Oddly enough, with the past avatar from the Water tribe, Kuruk. He did fuckall and the most noteworthy thing of his incarnation was losing the love of his life to Koh.

Seems like the real avatar cycle goes like this:
Air Avatar does a pretty good job and the world enjoys peace
Water Avatar decides to be a lazy piece of shit. Best case scenario, he fucks his own life (Kuruk), worst case, fucks everybody else's (Korra)
Then Earth Avatar comes around and finds the mess Water Avatar created. So this avatar decides to be a hardass and stomp on all the evil (Kioshi)
After all that disaster had happened, Fire Avatar comes and tries to do things right, ultimately failing (Roku)

At least Seymour's real goal was just to be immortal and everything else was an excuse for that.

But who's worse?

In order to accomplish that, you need fully rounded and developed main characters, something LOK sorely lacked. This is mostly because they're so many main characters that none of them get any real development.

In the first season of Airbender, you had only 4 main characters, Aang, Katara, Sokka, and Zuko. 3 main protagonists and 1 main antagonist. Sure, you had characters like Iroh and Zhao, but the series main focus was on those 4. That small number allowed them to explore the characters naturally, creating a much stronger cartoon. As the audience got to know the main the characters in that first season, they could be bring on new characters for new dynamics.

How many main characters did LOK have in it's first season? 9. 9 main characters, Korra, Tenzin, Jinora, Ikki, Meelo, Lin Beifong, Mako, Bolin, and Asami. 9 characters vying for attention in only TWELVE EPISODES. This isn't even covering the ridiculously grey villains Amon, Tarrlok, and Hiroshi Sato. It's a fucking mess.

An over-focus focus on adult characters like Tenzin were a problem in the series. Sure, the series got too bloated with its major cast but it certainly had focused too much on junk like Tenzin's family drama.

Varrick in particular is an example of this. It looks like the makers both noticed that Varrick was one of the better accepted elements of Book 2 and had too much fun writing him, so they got him a free pass on his early dastardly schemes which led to him appearing in situations he really shouldn't have been in, complete with stealing the spotlight from the show's ostensible protagonists.

The Su-Lin-Toph drama in Books 3 and 4 drew focus away from little things like focusing on Kuvira as a character and was also weak. If only from how it goes like this: Lin is spot-on about her sister, but apparently the writers figure we'll catch that Suyin dindu nuffin' and so back her over Lin. And Lin ends up backing Suyin after all that happened between them for, something.

Then put in all of the characters like Opal or Kai who were introduced and then failed to become relevant. Their introductions and scenes took space that could have been used for screentime of the main cast. One of TLA's strengths (especially over LOK) was a close focus on its core characters (Aang, Zuko, etc.) with recurring and/or ancillary characters supporting them without getting in the way. TLA in turn, managed to keep its adult characters in check with the kid characters: Iroh is a top-notch character, but Iroh does not steal the spotlight from Zuko.

you know, i got to thinking about this show, and i thought of something

why are the all the dykes on the "good' side, but the only fag they introduce is a traitorous bastard on the "bad" side?

SJW pandering men like Bryke and DiMartino aren't down with man-on-man. Throwing in some chicks kissing at the last minute to save yourself from all your critics is a dandy plan.

As one poster on RPGCodex put it: "Progressive and open-minded lol, it's just a bunch of middle-aged nerds basing all the male characters on themselves, all the child characters on their kids, and all the female characters on their masturbation fantasies. Progressive. Lolololo."

The adult focused drama was especially egregious when you realize the shit between Su-yin, Lin and Toph was the same shit Tenzin and his siblings went through.

honestly all Korra has on Last Airbender is better animation, and arguably character design, but Airbender has way better art direction and execution.

I'd like to add that TLA also had a WAY better fight choreography than Korra could ever dream of. the removing of the traditional fighting in favor of a "punch, punch, kick, punch" mma style, much especially considering this is supposed to be less than 100 years after TLA at the end of the story, really helps to cheapen this world

hell, the fire nation was roughly close to early 20th century in much of its technology, but even they kept traditional fire bending

I know it was done to point out how the world was drifting from the traditions of the past to go in the 'does the world need the avatar anymore?' theme it tried to go with, which is ironic as you'd think that would be more accurate with TLA given that the world spent a century without Aang compared to Korra.

Honestly the problem with the combat in Korra isn't necessarily the style, it's that it emphasized the bending too much which is why a non-bending combatant like Asami got so few and no major battles over the course of the series. The combat is also less personal because even the fights with the flashiest bending like Zuko vs Azula were still leagues ahead of what we got from any fight in Korra.

I can't see what point you're trying to make here. The implication I'm seeing is that flashiness is bad and it degrades the combat. So, despite the badness of even the Zuko-Azula fight (in your eyes, it's a good example of a fight that was too flashy), it is somehow responsible for the fights in LOK being "less personal".
Can you clarify what you're trying to say here?

I guess they were trying to shift LOK into being more of a soap opera than TLA. I mean, they already tried to pander to shippers with the Korra/Mako/Bolin/Asami junk.

It didn't even feel like a Soap Opera. Nothing dramatic was treated like it was. It felt more like it was just excusing shitty decisions.
Mako was treated as perfectly reasonable for leading girls on and cheating, and when the adults were pushed into all this bullshit, what happens? They all go 'nah this is fine.'
Like, Lin was treated as a fucking bitch when we find out that she was led on by Tenzin while he was busy fucking a homewrecker that was like 20/30 years younger than him.

Lin is truly the only sympathetic character in the series. And whenever she's actually upset about how much her life and the people around her suck, everyone tells her to get the fuck over it.

...

Well there is a least one parallel, AtLA got better for a while then LoK tanked the fuck out of everything.

The real stupid shit is we've seen the same sort of character done very well in Logar from 40k, he honestly believed Chaose would save and empower mankind and the truth no matter how horrible even by his own admission must be told because otherwise it would destroy us.

Uncle Darkness pants never tries to give a reason for why he thinks what he is doing is necessary, and he doesn't even seem to have ambitions to use his power for anything. So he did it, just'cause.

The sad thing is by 1900 everybody knew Marxist was a kike faggot who never worked a day in his life but he still created a massive movement. Amon whose exposure was only witnessed by a few dozen at most and was otherwise totally anonymous just lost all power as an ideal overnight. There was no movement based around the idea that he was falsely discredited and murdered by the Avatar. There was no remnant of his [political philosophy floating around. It all died with him. If anything a leaderless movement is more dangerous because you cannot decapitate it.

wasn't the explanation supposed to be that he was following the red lotus' dumbass teaching of "FUCK THE WORLD!!!"

Why was this plan A? At least AirBane's plan merely involved destroying a force which arguably led to the stagnation of the world and whose absence saw technology leap from 300AD Qin China to 1830 Europe in 100 years. Uncle Darknesspants just seems to have no real motivations written for him, just a half hearted lie to start out the arc, wonder why that was.

Book Two was really a reboot of the show. Aside from the returning characters, the issue of Asami's company, Raiko's presidency, and shared setting Book Two really had little to do with what happened in Book One. Even the Asami/Mako/Bolin Trio were largely disconnected to what Korra was doing until Unalaq attacked Republic City.

The whole Unalaq was a member of the Red Lotus thing comes off as an attempt to make the Red Lotus look more impressive after shoehorning them into the setting as this dark rival of the White Lotus who tried to get Korra when she was little.

To be fair it's a common misconception that both socialism and communism originated with Marx, when the reality is that socialism predates him, and the communism we know today started with the bolsheviks. Both groups left marxism behind almost immediately, and the only reason it managed to survive is through the false idea that marxism is some kind of "purified" communism that socialism derided from.

I'm not talking about socialism, I'm talking about Marxis, you know the really kikey kind of socialism.

Like I said, Marx is given a lot of credit for something he didn't do thanks to a misconception about the origins of socialism, and where Marx gains, marxism gains as well. Marxism has basically spent the entire 20th and 21st centuries riding on socialism's coattails.

Both Zaheer and Unalaq are shoddy characters.

All of Korra's villains except Amon were shit-tier.

Unalaq was a generic bad guy with zero proper motivation. He's also supposed to be Korra's uncle, but the way she treats him, and he her, it has zero significance later on.

Vaatu is the Devil, except piss-poor weak, who would've been permanently locked away by Korra fifteen seconds into their fight if she didn't get sucker punched by Unalaq, and then had Raava pulled out of her via Deus Ex Machina.

Red Lotus were fanfiction-tier anarchists whose fucked about for eight episodes, did some shit in the last five, and then experience such extreme Villain Decay that two of their elite members get beaten by Mako and Bolin, who are mediocre fighters, AT BEST.

Kuvira is literally Azula 2.0, except inferior. She beats Korra because the latter conveniently forgot she had metalbending and still had convenient PTSD after getting a pep talk from Yoda, er, Toph.

Amon too, started off with potential, but then got wrecked. He was the only villain who could've actually worked as a four season antagonist, with all the themes of nature vs. technology, benders vs. non-benders, progress vs. tradition basically writing themselves, but instead he got shafted for the three losers above.

(Vaatu could've been cool if they actually made him into a proper "HOLY SHIT, THE END IS NIGH!" god-tier villain instead of a piss-poor weakling beaten with Deus Ex Machina, though.)

And finally, Korra basically never loses unless its via convenient plot device, which means that none of the villains ever really feel threatening, as none of them could take Korra in a straight fight. With Aang, you at least got the feeling that he was fighting for his life against all the villains, but an explanation of all the ways that Korra exhibited Mary Sue-ish traits would take all day.

*who fucked about

Zaheer was an anarchist, which is A REAL LIFE POLITICAL MOVEMENT. And he was trying to apply airbender ideology in a modernized way, without the pacifist part.

And I don't exactly see why in a world with thousands of people in it you absolutely need to have people know each other. I mean, the fact that Amon and Unalaq were related was the most bullshit thing about them - they were WORSE because of being linked.

Prancing homos are a classic villain archetype

you know, you're actually fucking right

look at her life. she spends her whole life trying to make her mother proud, trying to keep order. and when her sister fucks everything up, her mom leaves & runs & her sister is made a fucking ruler while she's only chief of police back home

let's face it. so was amon to a certain extent

when he was first introduced as this awesome martial artist who could dodge or resist everything thrown at him, even take away people's bending, dude was hardcore as fuck

then came the shit with bloodbending and how someone who supposedly resisted using any bending for years just up and uses it, in full view of the public no less, is the purest example of the writers shitting the bed with how to make this character work. wouldn't he have the type of control that Marvel's Black Bolt where he trained himself not to use it unless it's a last resort?

shit, imagine the themes they could play with if they actually did make amon the main antagonist. he could literally play himself off as an anti-Ozai, or at the least an anti-Zuko

it's because she was almost entirely a mary-sue character. look at her:
then again, this sounds exactly like the kind of feminist propaganda that these cucks would write. fuck me, thank you nick for putting it out of our misery

since when were uncle darkness and mr communism related? they came from the same country

did you mean amon's brother?

And yet he ended up being all muh chaos. With his master plan being to kill Korra until she's dead to get muh chaos.

He conveniently got Airbending and was quickly good at it.

Put in every other problem with Zaheer and you've have a character who's only better than Unalaq, at best.

Why did Azula try to hit Katara with lightning? How would it be advantageous to her to hit Katara? Surely, if she's struggling with Zuko then two-on-one is hardly any better.

Did she anticipate that Zuko would dive in front of the bolt in an attempt to protect Katara thus reducing the match to her against Katara? I've seen some people imply other reasons for why she used this desperate tactic and I just want to clarify that I fully understood it. Could it be that she, anticipating her loss, wanted to maximise the damage she could do by taking Katara down with her?

yes, she realized she couldn't beat Zuko. She probably thought that taking out Katara would throw Zuko off and allow her to win. Then again, she was crazy, who knows why she did it.

That's interesting. I never considered that. That actually makes much more sense. There was no guarantee that Zuko would dive into lightning strike. There is a guarantee that Katara's death would unsettle him though.

But she got crippled! And lost her bending! And Avater State! Got blamed for stuff! Mean jerks like Raiko were mean to her! She not a Mary Sue!

What about Asami? She gets cheated on and serves as the cheerleader of the girl who Mako cheated with in Books Three and Four.

But in Book 2, she kissed Mako while he and Korra were still going out.

she was in an agni-kai, meaning she was supposed to keep it a one-on-one fight for the crown, and she was already losing badly. look at the scene, she's far too out of breath to keep up with Zuko, so her fire couldn't possibly keep up with his anymore

her options were either: lose fairly and be banished, if not imprisoned or forfeit and either take out katara (water bending ain't blocking lightning) or possibly take out zuko. look at the fight between her, team avatar, and Zuko & Iroh. she did the same thing, but with Iroh instead of Katara

on top of losing a potential threat, it's also possible that having his friend and ally will make Zuko start going onto a full offensive with his firebending (he'd mostly been on the defensive in the match), tiring him out while she catches her breath

korra did the same fucking shit, and they didn't even have any kind of past relationship before that

Are you sure you meant to use that word?

Uh, no. Mako and Korra were fully broken up by that point. In fact, Book 3 managed to piss me off right off the bat by trying to equate Korra kissing Mako while he was still with Asami, to Asami kissing Mako after he had already broken up with Korra.

Yeah, it's hilarious how korrafags latch onto the most trivial shit to try to prove that their waifu is not an OP Mary Sue.

She seriously didn't need a Team Avatar. I mean, Asami is rich and has flawless kung fu, but Mako and Bolin routinely struggle with rank and file mooks and are not particularly good at anything else, so why are they still around?

dude, the "mean jerks" was proof enough that this is a fucking troll

Even Asami didn't really have grounds to follow Korra around. All she really amounted to was performing as Korra's cheerleader, having a brief attempt as gadget mule, and serving as internet panderer.

The Asami/Mako/Bolin Trio suffer from how they were designed for Book One's setting and overarching conflict, yet later seasons never actually found a place for them as Korra's answer to the non-Aang members of the Gaang. Mako for example went from street urchin to detective (and his detective work had nothing to do with Korra's family feud until Unalaq attacked Republic City) to bodyguard.

Now I'm wondering if LoK could have been noticeably better if they just ditched the Republic City cast altogether and went with Korra being a line wanderer ala Clint Eastwood.

...

I have a question about Ozai's supposed rejection of Azula. I have difficulty interpreting that scene.

Ozai argued that he didn't want Azula coming with him to raze the Earth Kingdom because he had "more important" duties for her. How was this a violation of her trust? Surely it's expected that sometimes, plans can suddenly change? Azula seemed convinced that when Ozai did this that he was pushing her away though, she even hints that he's repeatedly done this. What does she mean when she says that he can't keep treating her like Zuko? What similarities, if any are there between how Ozai treats Zuko and how he treats Azula?

Was her joining him on the raze supposed to be some sort of father-daughter bonding experience for her? Did she feel exploited for her ideas only to be discarded later? It just seemed strange to me because I always see these kind of battle plans as impersonal but for Azula, it was all very personal.

I want to say that's mostly because Korra was going to be a one season thing, but even in Book One, they didn't have much reason to help Korra.

I think they could've made them work, but with a lot of changes. I'd be cool with a lone wanderer Korra, too, though.

If I recall correctly she literally said something along the lines of "this was my idea, I should get to go with you". She dislike being tucked away, so to speak, similar to how Zuko had been discarded following his banishment. I'd imagine after Zuko got kicked out, she got it in her head that she was now the favorite child, and that she would never be cast aside like Zuko was. Plus she was starting to go unhinged at the time.

and she wanted the D

She was the favorite, until she lied to Ozai about the Avatar. Once he found that out, he knew he could trust her, so he promoted her to the window seat.

What episode is it when Ozai finds out that Azula lied to him? I had no idea that his discovery of the lie is what impacted his faith in her.

I thought Azula told Ozai that Zuko killed Aang, so that when Ozai found out he was still alive, Zuko would get blamed, not her

i think solar eclipse episode. zuko admits he never killed the avatar & I think he says it was azula

You are correct but your answer doesn't address my question.

Apparently, according to the poster I replied to, there's a point where Ozai discovers that it was Azula that killed the Avatar and that it wasn't Zuko (so this is after Azula has successfully lied to Ozai about Zuko supposedly killing the Avatar). The poster argues that this is what causes Ozai to drive Azula away from himself and keep her at bay as she cannot be trusted. I want to explore that argument.

I just checked that episode and yes, you are correct.

That excuse went out the window when the team got told they were up for more seasons.

Actually, Mako turned kind of sympathetic from how hard they pandered to the web crowd bashing on him. Bolin too for how they made him so pathetic.

Okay Holla Forums, that's quite enough.
Back to your containment board.

meant for

There's such irony in this. Fuck off back to Holla Forums. Neither of you are welcome, you've been shitting up too many threads by getting into arguments with each other recently.

He didn't. By the time they pandered to the crowd bashing him, you were already sure he was an asshole, and nothing he could do could redeem that. Which sucks, because he was named after the guy that voiced Iroh.

If I had to spread it out, I'd have made it like this:

Korra - The Avatar. Starts out knowing firebending, earthbending and waterbending. Struggles with learning airbending. She's stubborn, so earthbending should be her most common element instead of firebending. She also struggles with spirituality, but eventually gets over it, and masters the Avatar State. She's also much less selfish and more "for the people".

Mako - Police rookie like in Book 2. That, I thought, was pretty good. Works long hours, is a loner, is very perceptive and a good strategist and tactician. Gifted firebender, unlike his TV show counterpart, later on learns how to shoot and redirect lightning from old Zuko.

Asami - Rich girl heiress, very friendly, great kung-fu skills, is the wrench wench of the team with a technology obsession. Has a crush on Mako early on because he unintentionally gives off the "cool guy" vibe despite being a socially awkward dork, and because she's been sheltered for most of her life, with Korra, Mako and Bolin as her first real friends.

Bolin - Pro-bender like his TV show counterpart, has his own team, won several championships and has a fangirl club, but is on a bit of a downward spiral after his waterbending teammate quits, and he invites Korra to join. Is close and very defensive of Mako against those who bully him because of his firebender status (more on that later). Their situation is a bit awkward, as Bolin earns far more than Mako at his shitty police job, but Mako is the more mature and smarter one, and handles their finances. Is a very good earthbender who invented his own unorthodox style which proves useful against chi blockers, which he later teaches to Korra. Also learns metalbending later on.

Then you have shit like firebenders being discriminated against because of the Hundred Years War, Amon having much more sinister and deeper motivations than just "muh equality" which would be slowly revealed as he becomes a four season villain, while others like Kuvira, Unalaq, Vaatu and the Red Lotus either disappear or get incorporated into the story in other ways.

Honestly, I'd add on and say Korra shouldn't have already mastered waterbending. Maybe fire and earthbending, but not water. Obviously it'd be retarded if she didn't know it at all, but it'd be an interesting plot point if she's just like 'oh yeah right, i never actually mastered that' since it's what she should have learned first. For the same reasons she can't even begin to figure out airbending- the whole spiritual calmness part is something she has issues with.

That looks dandy so far. I can back keeping Kuvira as maybe a pawn of Amon.

Maybe because of her personality, she's proficient in firebending and it bites her in the ass later when she's trying to learn air and waterbending.

how about something like this

What evidence is there for the theory that Azula took Zuko back with her to the Fire Nation purely because she intended to use him as a scapegoat? This is something I'm stumbling upon frequently in discussions and I'd like to hear this.

The reason why I'm skeptical of it is because firstly, it seems that Azula only discovers the possibility of the Avatar's survival (and thus, the need for a scapegoat) during the pond scene in the first episode of the third book. By this point, the victory over Ba Sing Se was already two weeks ago or so.
Secondly, there seems to be signs that Azula genuinely trusted Zuko and was actually trying to look out for him.

b.. but muh strong empowerd wymn!

It's more fun to have a realistic woman than a 'strong' one.

i've got to ask, are any of the avatar comics good?

i remember reading about zuko & azula going off to find their mother in one

All 3 are bad, but the first one is the least terrible. The mother one is absolute garbage, easily the worst of the 3. The third is pretty bad, too.

Nobody has shown what's a "strong women" without trying to police creators.

The strongest and most empowered woman was by far the most obnoxious character and, second to Korra, the one who did the most things wrong.

Katara ran off with Aang, so she couldn't be sure if the Avatar was alive or not. Her lying about Zuko killing the Avatar was to cover her own ass and put Zuko under her control.

Did you watch the series?

The very first one about Zuko and Aang in that Earth Kingdom town was okay at best. Rest are pretty awful, though. Only good thing is the art.

I did. It seems that you've failed to understand my question. I don't know how my phrasing was so poor that you seemed to have completely missed my point. As far as I can see, it's right there:
>What evidence is there for the theory that Azula took Zuko back with her to the Fire Nation purely because she intended to use him as a scapegoat?
>purely because she intended to use him as a scapegoat
>purely
You're answering back to me as though my question was quite simply "Why did Azula lie to Ozai about Zuko killing the Avatar?" I'm not asking why she lied. I'm asking if her intention to use the lie was the sole reason why she took Zuko back with her to the Fire Nation.

Also:
How? How does this lie give Azula power over Zuko?
We can see in the episode at the start that Ozai already accepts Zuko back into the family. Only later in the episode does the pond scene occur (followed by Azula creating the lie). This means that Zuko's acceptance is not dependent on the lie. Yes, Azula can take Zuko's fame away at any time but ultimately, it's simply not necessary. Meanwhile, Azula is the one that fabricated the lie, not Zuko. My conclusion then is that Zuko doesn't really lose anything whereas Azula loses precious credibility from her own father, something which may be responsible for her (soon-to-be futile) coronation i.e. the lie gives Zuko power, not Azula.

Both Mai and Toph's parents get 21st century style divorces and the fathers are portrayed as the villains for trying to keep their families together.

They're shit.

That's exactly what I said.
And even the art is questionable

It's possible she took him back with her simply because he is her brother, regardless of how fucking nuts she is. Even if that wasn't the case, he saved her ass from Katara during the Season 2 climax, so maybe she felt she owed him.

her lying was probably to spare her own name above all else

the instant zuko showed doubt at aang's demise, she knew that it wasn't a sure thing. she already had all the glory she needed, having conquered the one city iroh couldn't, bringing back loyal agents from the earth nation, and captured a traitorous member of the royal family

zuko was still the formerly banished prince and was more or less the same person that ozai originally banished, so odds of him surpassing her for next in line for the throne was unlikely, even with the avatar's death

ultimately, this was a win-win for her. if aang died, she just has a new member of her entourage that she can take the rug out from whenever she wanted. if not, he looks like a total jackass. the only flaw in her plan was that she didn't expect zuko to willingly give up the honor he regained and straight up tell ozai that she lied

i thought toph's parents were still together by the time toph's kids were teenagers

She a good girl. She dindu nuffin'. And Sokka Toph baby daddy.

Two. Finale kinda bookends it with the worst future where Glimmer wins.
Basically "Gommunism leads to all dese ruins"

"Still a better asspull than anything out of Blech."
(with the obscene amount in the past arc and current arc I'm really surprised that isn't a meme yet. Here's a good one, the big big big ebil all-seasons badguy was hiding in Ichigo's sword all along. As his buddy/mentor, not his psycho alter ego. Aizen was just a more successful and intelligent Zhao who then tried to usurp Totally-Not-YHVH. Also Yoruichi's bankai doesn't make her stronger, just faster. So fast she burns her clothes off. So ah, yeah, endless storm of bullshit

Not even Japanese nationalists care all that much about it, they mostly just deny it to troll chinks. Very few of even the black vanners care all that much, since their government itself didn't care. There's no internal criticism of it, it's just "things stupid foreigners say/believe."
Source: one of them actually moderates a site I frequent. He's run with them for 12 years now. Suspects the same will happen going the other direction with the nukes in the next generation as all those that were affected die out, so pretty much they will only be shaming yanks for using the bombs simply because the yanks allow themselves to be shamed and give up the gibs.

They're all pretty bad though there is the one that has what happened to his mom at least, so you can find that out and put it to rest.

Like with the horsefuckers, the fancomics are billions of lightyears ahead in quality, even the shipper ones, and they're just drawn versions of bad standard fanfic. That should tell you how far they fall. Been awhile since the storytimes so I can't remember exactly why they were so terrible though.

Also see: The non-Genndy Clone Wars
Too many "visionaries" with lame overdone stories that deliver something good when under duress/instruction getting George Lucas'd these days.

actually what was mentioned before about there not being enough fucking time spread among all the leads fits for the Red Lotus too. Zaheer's trapped in the wrong fucking series. He's a classic chop-socky martial arts 'grey' but given no development time past "Wanting to stick it into the human candle lady is the only actual tie I have to being a normal man"
If you think about Zaheer alone, and not the Red Lotus along with him, he'd be pretty good as a Jet Li type. (think villainous Jet Li in that movie where he's fighting all his clones maybe.)

This makes sense, yes.

I'm not questioning the purpose of the lie. Simply if it was the only purpose (which would imply that she knew the Avatar might not be dead sooner than the pond scene).

Did Azula get all the glory for the capture of Ba Sing Se? I can't recall but it seemed like the glory was evenly distributed between them.

I disagree. I'm certain that the death of the Avatar was definitely a bigger boost to Zuko's fame than the capture of Ba Sing Se and Iroh was for Azula (assuming she did get all the glory for it) since the Avatar was the single, biggest threat to the Fire Nation's ambitions above all else. By comparison, the Fire Nation's failure to capture Ba Sing Se (and thus, Ba Sing Se's reputation of being impenetrable) stemmed purely from the fact that after Iroh lost his son during the siege, he quit the siege so Azula's victory wasn't as great since she simply didn't quit and used different methods.
I think it's also worth noting that Ozai banished Zuko because Zuko tried to protect the weak from being killed. Now, according to the grand speech given by Lo and Li, Zuko and Azula killed the Avatar together i.e. before Azula lied about Zuko being the sole killer, it was believed by the Fire Nation masses that Azula had merely cooperated with Zuko. Since Zuko (and Azula) killed the Avatar, this means that Zuko is willing to acknowledge the necessity of murder. This is more inline with Ozai's beliefs, something which Ozai can accept. I believe this is the meaning of Ozai's comment on how Zuko's travels have changed Zuko. I believe that this apparent paradigm shift combined with his (later) supposed murder of the Avatar would lead to Zuko being much closer to succeeding the throne than Azula.

Ultimately, this is a bad move for Azula. If the lie remains undiscovered, Zuko is closer to the throne. If the lie is discovered, Zuko isn't really hurt by it since his acceptance was not dependent on being the sole killer of the Avatar, it's dependent on him playing a role in the Avatar's demise whereas Azula would lose precious trust and credibility for (seemingly pointlessly) lying to her father.

I always took it that the opportunity to fuck with Zuko was THE reason she lied as she never actually seems THAT interested in succeeding the throne herself, despite her Speech about it in book 2, the "protect herself from fallout if he lived" thing being a very flimsy excuse.

I think you should approach her actions with the idea that for her the ability to enact familiar "petty" sibling torment was something more valuable then getting the throne for them to make sense.

Azula be Crazy though, so who the fuck knows.

Where do we see Azula fuck with Zuko purely for fun? Excusing her childhood antics, where do we see this? Admittedly, I don't think there was much chance for this but nonetheless, where do we see this? Where do we see her just fuck with people for fun?

I've never seen her explicitly express interest in the throne either but at the same time, I can't think of any opportunities she's had to do so either. Hell, Zuko's never explicitly expressed interest in succeeding the throne. He's only ever explicitly expressed interest in restoring his honour and being accepted by his father so in a way, Zuko doesn't seem that interested in being Fire Lord either.
What evidence is there to support the theory that Azula isn't very interested in being the next Fire Lord?

Why are you both such faggots?

I'm not against the possibility that she wanted to fuck with Zuko. I'm against the possibility of her doing something for the sole purpose of fucking with Zuko. I acknowledge that a character can be complex and can have multiple motivations behind a particular action and so I would like to explore those motivations. That's it.

Also, where does Azula explicitly state that she likes to fuck with Zuko? What conversation is this? What episode?

Why does it need to be explicitly stated? In the clip given she's fucking with him. Her entire childhood she fucked with him. Their entire relationship is built on Zuko being wary and not knowing if she's fucking with him or not. Of COURSE she likes fucking with him, you retard.

Assuming you're the same poster, it's literally written right here:

>Azula literally explains to Zuko how she did what she did to save her own ass and to fuck with Zuko
>Azula literally explains
>literally
Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you were using "literally" literally? From my understanding, the use of "literally" in that way is fairly informal and from what I can see, you and I aren't on such friendly terms.

Oh, and I accept your point. She does clearly like fucking with him.

Literally =/= explicitly. In that clip she literally explains to Zuko how she's doing it partially to fuck with him, she just didn't use those exact words. You're retarded, aren't you?

Oh I see. It's not "Azula literally explains to Zuko that…" so much as it's "what literally happened was that Azula explains to Zuko that…".

I watched the clip. At no point is there any kind of confession that she likes to fuck with him. The only kind of thing in that exchange that would allude to this is:

Zuko: You're lying
Azula: If you say so.

This would be a minor confession to fucking with him in that moment rather than a confession to enjoying fucking with him generally, as I was expecting and seeking. Of course, the fact that she generally likes fucking with him doesn't need to be stated but nonetheless, there was no overt declaration of it, as I felt you had implied.

You're autistic.
Cripplingly autistic. You agree with him, yet you argue about semantics so you can feel right and superior anyway.

>yet you argue about semantics so you can feel certain in yourself and your opinions and why they differ from everyone else's
FTFY. I can accept being hated or being seen as retarded for my opinions. I just can't accept not being able to see why this is the case. The kind of person I hate most is the sort that just strolls into a discussion, explicitly or implicitly tells you that you're wrong and then says nothing. They don't even try to explain how you've gone off-course, they just let you know that there's a problem and then go off on their merry way. They don't let you have the bliss of a fool's ignorance nor do they help you move towards a better perspective. It's as though they just shit on you and then go.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I showed up.
Later, fag.

What did I miss?

No, Amon not being able to remove airbending for some reason was the single most stupid fucking thing in the entire Book 1 finale. They never really explained how he does it either, so it's literally "because fuck you, that's why". Also, Amon wouldn't need to kill Zaheer, just practice on him until he learns how to remove airbending as well in that situation.

Here's some further details to expand:

The Lieutenant - Instead of being a chump, he's now basically an Avatar version of former spec ops (maybe former United Forces who got kicked out for unethical behavior), who is an elite fighter that, unlike Amon who fights in the open and relies on his sheer physical prowess and magic bending removal and chi blocking skills, operates primarily through the use of technology and stealth equipment, such as gas bombs, tranquilizer darts, specialized gadgets, camouflage gear and all that good shit. He is also kind of mentally unstable, and just likes violence for the sake of violence.

Tarrlok - Instead of Amon's brother (Amon, for now, remains an enigma), he is just a corrupt politician who does all the oppression of non-benders because, well, he is an asshole. He plays a much a bigger obstacle in Korra's adventures in Book 1, and towards the end of Book 1, the Equalists take over Republic City, defeated the United Forces reinforcements and the city police, and Korra and company flee with the retreating UF guys. Final shot is of Amon speaking to the crowds about how they will "liberate the world from the tyranny of benders" and how this is just the beginning, then they bring out Tarrlok, he talks shit to Amon, Amon says a badass one-liner and kicks Tarrlok into a crowd of Equalists, THIS IS SPARTA style. Camera then slowly pans up to Amon's emotionless face as Tarrlok tell the non-benders to get their hands off him, and then starts screaming, the implication being that he is literally getting torn apart by the angry mob.

Also, each of the four books would consist of 15 episodes, or 13 episodes AT MINIMUM.

I wonder what LOK would be like if it took a serious look at the notion of Korra being a force for balance as opposed to just a force for good.

I mean, Book 1 has some shades of this but the Equalists ended up as goons of a supervillain trying to paint Republic City red with blood. I'm talking about having the Equalists be more nuanced than how they turned out while Korra's still caught up in their plots. You can even have Asami be a full-time member who objects to the shadier members.

not sure where you would go from there but the potential for comparisons to late 19th-20th century europe is massive. hell, you could even have a faux world war of anti-bender nations vs bender-freindly nations with benders having to constantly flee anti-bender nations (sound familiar? :^))

In ATLA, are any comments made regarding benders and non-benders?

I mean, I knew Sokka couldn't bend and I suppose if Sokka could learn waterbending, he might've but nonetheless, I don't remember there being any kind of implication that people who don't bend cannot learn bending or that being a non-bender is inherently inferior. I assumed that it was because it was okay to not bend (or rather, I never even thought to question it). That there really are just a variety of different styles like how in One Piece, you don't need to be a Devil Fruit eater to fight well. The Kyoshi Warriors were defeated by Zuko but did well against the men he brought with them. Sokka also learnt how to fight well with his Space Sword so there's that too (his sword skill mastery improved abnormally fast though). Mai and Ty Lee also did well despite not being benders.

Thoughts?

I think the space sword episode was the most they ever talked about the differences between benders and non-benders.

There was nothing pointing to there being anything close to the hostility Benders we see in LOK Book 1.

And go figure. The whole "Benders VS Not Benders" schtick was an attempt to stick an X-Men style conflict into Avatar World.

In hindsight, burning the Earth Kingdom was a smart plan. He would've retroactively prevent the Earth Queen from coming to power and demolished the Dai Li

well don't just skate by that point like it's trivial. his lack of bending was a source of frustration and feelings of being useless during his time with Aang. the fact that he didn't learn waterbending means he probably couldn't. there is also Katara being recognized as a waterbender since she was a toddler, and protected by her mother. in the very first episode, Sokka expresses that his sister is "weird" for having powers, and she displays raw ability that we know did not come from study or training. it's just not treated like an acquired discipline such as swordfighting or archery or whatever.

so it's something of a parallel between them and Zuko and Azula

you forgot

Yes, I was afraid that I was just projecting myself into him and I couldn't think of any moments where Sokka expresses interest in learning waterbending but yes, you're right. He did reveal feelings of powerlessness in that episode as he was the only non-bender in the Gaang.

Since Sokka was so obsessed with having the strength necessary to defend his people, him not learning waterbending did seem odd. Katara also didn't really have a teacher either so it seemed like perhaps Sokka could learn it too if he just put time into it. But yeah, in that space-sword episode, I just realised that he didn't ask to learn bending. Not once in the entire series does he ask to learn bending. He asked to learn combat from the Kyoshi Warriors but he never asked to learn bending from his own friends.

Well actually, it was revealed in the Southern Raiders episode that all the waterbenders of the Southern Water Tribe were exterminated (except Katara who was saved by her mother) hence why her power was weird. (I also think Sokka was trying to hurt her and make her feel ashamed of her power because he felt insecure with his own powerlessness. He later goes on in that scene to state that her mistakes are due to her being a girl which I think served to highlight his feelings of failure as a man). It was also explained near the end of Season One where the Gaang are at the Northern Water Tribe that Katara did actually train regularly, it's just that she didn't have a teacher. It didn't come from study but it did come from training.

I don't think I recall any scenes where we see differences in the attitude between bending arts and non-bending arts (martial arts, sword arts, etc.). But I suppose it would make sense.

Some good observations there. I think I see why Zutarans exist:

Their inner demons are complementary as they've both gone through eerily similar circumstances.

They also had cheap imitations in LOK (Mako and Bolin).

What he's saying is that the ability to bend is something you're born with, not something anyone can develop through training. Sokka wasn't a waterbender not because he didn't want to be, but because he wasn't born with the inherent ability to do it. No amount of practicing waterbedning forms and masturbating to the moon would change this.

Pic related

Very simple, hetero males won't complain as much when it comes to lesbians (because fap fap fap)

meh. the whole tumblr movement ruined lesbians for me. it used to be all "oh man just two women and not a cock in sight, this is the greatest shit ever", then it became "oh look two dykes are going at it. does rubbing your cunts together make you feel all empowered? good for you"

why does my brain have to associate a beautiful, intimate moment with some political bullshit? i'm retarded.

can we all agree that LoK isn't cannon and that Sokka got with Suki and had like 50 babies?

Also, Aang was an awesome Dad who impregnated every girl from that Airbender club that followed the traditional teachings and that's how Airbending resurfaced instead.

NO

Sokka got with Toph.

jesus christ that picture

I like the idea of Aang asking Katara if she can share him with his Kyoshi fan club (for the good of his culture/avatar cycle) therefore making "neo" airbender males have many wives

The other thing to keep in mind is just how shitty the red lotus are as villains. They are a radical faction of violent war seekers which is supposed to be treated as some fringe group of the white lotus when they are completely opposite.

Asami was never really that important. Even in Book 1 she was largely there as an obstacle for Korra getting with Mako.

tumblr being a garbage dump doesn't help with the pandering to it and other internet bases of the Avatar crowd throughout LOK's production. The whole Korra/Mako/Asami schtick was trying to take advantage of all the shipping talk back in TLA's days (Namely for the Zuko/Katara pairing).

The Red Lotus were something out of a fanfic.

The only lead foe after Amon who didn’t come off as shoehorned in to draw out the series was Kuvira.

wouldn't that be because she was introduced in the previous book?

It's not just that. Kuvira's whole earth revanchist act did better at framing her and the conflict she spearheaded as a proper continuation from the state of the world we saw by TLA's ending. Unalaq/Vaatu and Zaheer in comparison came off as attempts to fish for directions to take the sequel show.

Is it true that not only was Azula originally going to be a prince but that Zuko was originally also going to be a princess? (This might give a whole new spin on the tension between Aang and Zuko)

Was Korrasami fanpandering or not? Because as far as I know, Bryan, co-creator of Korra, said he wanted to do it since Book 1 when they first got Asami designed.

He joked about it. But then it got popular and they realized they could make LoK go down in history for it.

But they said that the rest of the series was already written when Korrasami got popular…
"As per Sean Gantka, most of the show was already in the can before the fan feedback reached them. :"By the time the fans were posting about how much they like those two characters together [Asami and Korra throughout Book 3], we were already done with the series"."
avatar.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Love_Robin/Korrasami_Insights,_An_Interview_with_Sean_Gantka

What do you think?

...

That's what I say, there's no "proof" and apparently, what I say contradicts what they say.

Bryke and DiMartino have repeatedly contradicted themselves.

How so?

Considering that Korra's and Asami's voice actresses got called back exclusively just to redo the ending scene of Book Four, and that Bryke were calling everyone fags and retards for calling them out on their bullshit in Book One, and have a history of pandering, I'm more than confident that they are bullshitting to cover their asses. Not the first time they've done this.

I'll just get my questions out of the way because I've never really seen much of Korra but

Originally she was supposed to turn out to be a villain, but they decided that she wouldn't because they "liked her design"
The same way that somehow the world has made 100s of years of advancement in 70 years, they thought it looked cool.

wasn't her design based off Lust from Fullmetal Alchemist?

No, because apparently, neither Bryan Konietzko or Michael Dante DiMartino ever watched Fullmetal Alchemist. I think the sole reason she was changed from a villain was because people made Bryke aware of that fact.

If they never watched either of the FMAs, it makes me wonder what anime they do watch. I doubt it's shit like Gurren Lagann or Kill La Kill.

I think they said that Hokuto no Ken was misogynistic or some shit…

Is this fucker the sole reason Avatar was good? He was staff writer for fucking 59 episodes of Avatar.

I bring this up because I noticed he was writing Motorcity when Korra was in production.

Him an Ehaz were responsible, yes. They had a greater grasp of storytelling techniques and pacing, as well as character interaction. Bryke were basically glorified idea guys.

"Bryan Konietzko conceived her as a Hollywood Golden Age actress in the Avatar World, with her hair inspired by Rita Hayworth.[39] Although having designed her before watching the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist, Bryan Konietzko stated he was fine with saying that Asami's design was influenced by Lust and is flattered by the fact that people would think so, as "Lust is such a killer design".[40] He did, however, say that he used Lust's lipstick color for Asami.[39]"
And i don't recall them saying Hokuto no Ken was misogynistic.

Why the fuck did Nick keep Bryke around? They're just shipping faggots.

Korra is now even worse because they were idiots aping better writers! Goddamn.

They said Akira was misogynistic because a woman gets slapped by her boyfriend in it.
You can't make this shit up.

I assume that since they technically "created" the world they hold the rights to it, and the fanbase look to them as the franchise's infallible creators.

I can't find anything on that though, you have a sauce?

They should have kept her as a villain, or at least as a serious Equalist. They never did find a proper place for her in the Krew, bouncing from a rival for Korra over who gets Mako, gadget mule, cheerleader for Korra, and internet panderer.

Except the part about it coming from a woman. Most unrealistically written female in the entire series.

Apart from the scene where Toph kisses Suki due to her mistaken belief that it was Sokka (which I personally just took as a gag since Toph is never that emotional), what other signs are there of Toph's crush on Sokka?

You could trigger tumblrinas posting like that!

I'm glad to see another who says that Korra's setting came too fast. Especially since it because so Western.

I still get annoyed when I remember that people in Korra's time were apparently smart enough to build cars and airplanes, but don't have guns or any kind of artillery for some reason. They even have remotely-detonated explosives, for fuck's sake.

Granted, that would've made the whole Bender vs. Non-Bender conflict a bit too openly violent for a kid's show, but still.

I'm sure it's less too violent and more that they wouldn't figure out how to make firearms prominent and still keep hock sockey as a big thing.

If I'm deciphering your post correctly you're saying that peacetime is the reason that they haven't developed artillery, but history makes it very clear that the largest leaps of technology are during wartime. The fire nation would have never needed to make huge steel refineries or combustion/steam engines if they weren't trying to conquer the world, nor would they need air travel. There's no reason for that level of advancement in what is a period of peace in the world.

I was saying that the makers of the show wouldn't be able to figure out how to have firearms as a prominent element in the setting while still keeping in line with Avatar's kung-fu roots.

Ehasz was also the one who came up with Toph being a girl and I'm sure Azula also.

Ehasz was too busy with The Clone Wars at the time, IIRC.

Why am I not surprised?

it's true that all the benders would no longer be special snowflakes when everyone could sling lead at 2500 fps, but it'd still be a highly useful ability, and all the elite military positions would still be filled with benders. not to mention the endless uses outside of combat. i doubt a skilled bender would find his abilities unwanted/unappreciated even in the 21st century.

Daily reminder that, as election season draws nearer, shills are going to be coming out in greater numbers.They want to subvert threads so that they can get more recruits to vote for Trump/Clinton.

Fuck Holla Forums, fuck Holla Forums, fuck SJWs, and fuck Stormcucks. The only thing that should matter here is Comics And Cartoons.

While you have a point, you are missing that Bryke would find a way screw up how firearms would get handled in LOK.

Appealing to the middle ground accomplishes nothing user, it just leaves people in a state of apathy and the wrong people to win while going unchallenged. It draws you in regardless - and, by the looks of how we complain daily about the garbage here on Holla Forums, not even our comics and cartoons are spared from this fight.

haha take that you swiss bastards

Holla Forums was never the problem and trying to fight your neighbors and sling shit at them won't solve the issues caused by the invading reddit and tumblr users who think they must stop us be derailing every thread.

I repeat, Holla Forums is not the problem. We coexisted with them fine for years, but now this election has brought in outside forces, paid shitposters, and D&C shills.

Solidarity with our brethren is far more effective than this childish "fuck everyone" mentality.

It's in the Nick Podcast the two were in. 6 minutes in.

I'm as far as a tumblr poster as you could get, but I'd have to call bullshit on that.
There have been many fascist women in history, most recently Thatcher. In fact, the whole British Empire was born and thrived mainly under female rulers. Kuvira's character isn't implausible at all.

Talk about not enough screentime. She had to play double duty of being Korra's "dark mirror" (complete with getting described as a brash hothead) and the Avatar version of the dictators who came to power post-WW1 (if not just Hitler). We hear about concentration camps that are never shown. We see a giant robot. We get an amateur therapy session with Korra at the end for her background and how it drove what she did.

What COULDN'T have been axed in Part 4 to get Kuvira more focus and more exposure on what makes her so dastardly?

...

She was the only non-Amon lead foe who came off as having effort put into her instead of being a monster of the week.

This post brings up something I have been curious about. Exactly how old is the world in avatar? I mean the trademark saying(practically) is "I have mastered the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes." That is like even if we use a mean age of 60 knowing some benders like earth can easily live past a hundred, that is 60,000 years. And it's probably been much longer. Does anyone have any information on that? On top of that we have seen that the avatar is born almost exactly the time the previous avatar dies so that rules out avatars being alive at the same time

Apparently a bunch of avatars live well over 100 years old, some reaching up to 300. The only reason Aang died in his 60's/70's was because he was using the avatar state for 100 years, so was technically alive that whole time.

If that was the case he would have aged, he was in a state of suspended animation I believe. I think the reason he lived such a short life was because he was an air bender, having the shortest lifespan while the rugged earthbenders were like the element they use tough and long lasting

Good. Look at a certain country today that is wallowing in its own guilt and self-loathing. Who'd want that as their future? Japan was wise to protect its pride.

I wouldn't list Nick's interference for the issues of Book 4. I doubt Nick forced Bryke to overuse Varrick. Or do the whole Toph/Lin/Suyin family feud. Or fail to really show what made Kuvira such a dastardly lady she had to be stopped and Prince Wu a totally top-notch ruler who should be obeyed.

He lived a short life so that they could have Korra, and the reason why they didn't set her up further away in time is because they wanted to have old faces from ATLA show up. So Aang ends up dying while they live on to help out the new and better avatar.

Aang literally died so that you could have Korra as soon as possible in the timeline.

I'm sure that Katara's talk with Korra way back in Book One implied the other Gaang members were dead.

I always thought that the next step for the series would be to incorporate the West into the Avatar world some how. Where a new continent is discovered, and they bring advanced technology bringing a spiritual decadence to the world (meaning less benders). They could have the next Avatar be a westerner who learns of their past lives and go on a New Adventure™. I'm lost for what plot could be used in this scenario, and I don't have faith in our subverted entertainment industry to make anything good with integrating the West into Avatar without it being WHITEY BAD.
Any thoughts?

That's sort of what happened in LOK. Republic City was Avatar's version of New York City post-WW1. Even in Book 4 Zhu Li's wedding dress was more like a traditional European or European derived wedding dress than what's worn in traditional Sinosphere ceremonies.

To be blunt, I didn't dig the setting of LOK for how it was so Western. It's like Bryke really wished to do a series about some vigilante in a post-WW1 NYC stand-in but ended up using the plan for the sequel to TLA.

Can I get sauce on pic related?

Did you try Google?

No actually, I didn't. I tried google-image-searching thumbnails before and that backfired so I assumed that the method just doesn't work. Today, I've learnt something new.

Wouldn't a SJW say Japan dindu nuffin since the Japanese aren't European?

No, to them East Asians are the same as Europeans

This, sjws hate japan. A lot of it is that they see them as the whites of asia, another part is that they are still really traditionalist in the face of all the progressivism. That is changing though

Please tell me this isn't true.
One of the reasons why they still have a interesting culture right in the face of post-modernism is because they feel strongly about their traditions.
Fuck them if they replace innocent waifus with ill-manner bull-dykes that "need no man."

Toph and fucking Katara weren't dead though. Neither was Zuko. Are you too autistic to get a general point?

Really?

The scale of the Avatar world is pretty wonky when you get down to it. There should really be a few more continents in there.

If we toss out the odd retcons brought on by Korra and assume that bending is a spiritual talent, what kind of powers would a faux-European civilization have? Alchemy? Wizardry? Shamanistic Rituals?

It should also take a bit longer than a few months for people to trek from one pole to another. Although I guess they did have Appa

Well Europeans for the longest time did have a hidden interest in occultism or the black arts.
That would be pretty cool to see, especially if the group were dark worshipers, but I don't know how well that would blend in the Avatar world.

Actually there is a lot of christian theology that states that your words have a kind of power. So maybe europeans would have something close to the thuum that the nords have

I can back this.

well, there would be a ton of room for improvisation bringing the west in on this

first off there's the fact that the west was generally more technologically advanced than the east, so that would definitely bring an advantage

you could play around with several things using western culture

also, going off of what said, you could have a new style of bending that uses words. like, saying a certain "spell" before firebending an advanced move

adding onto that, you can easily see stuff in this world like a paladin who's a bender for a certain religion, a musketeer-bender, a privateer-bender, etc.

Nice ideas guys.
One issue that will probably have to be rethought is how the avatar reincarnation/state works. We've been lead to think that the cycle repeats between the four nations (Fire,Air,Water,Earth).
Bringing in the West means that in some point in the Avatar world there may have been a few Western avatars that were never realized or were great leaders in their time, i.e. Alexander The Great, The Bismark, Adolf, etc.

Hitler entering the avatar state is hilarious. Reminds me of that picture of hitler turning into a super saiyan.

you could always do something with western versions of the avatar

he's supposed to be a spirit of balance, so you could have other spirits who took human form and were able to learn bending and would reincarnate within their respective side of the world

if they ever fought, it'd be like a kickboxing match between buddha and jesus

Anyway. I think the best idea would be to have the series all about traveling outward from Asia. Maybe resources are running low, or there's a foreigner that washes up on shore of the Fire Nation. We get introduced to countries based on India, Arab nations, Slavic nations, and so on, going West.

Interestingly enough, a backstory for the Avatar they considered that was on the official TLA site but apparently was moved away from had the Avatar be the planet itself taking a human form.

Going with this, you could have a similar being in an analogue of the Occident be some other member of the Avatarverse's solar system in human form.

I think they should've had her be an Equalist the entire time, but have her change sides in the finale because she ended up befriending Korra and realizing the Equalists were going too far.

Honestly, I think the only awful ones were Kuvira and Unalaq. Red Lotus and Amon were meh, but not completely unsalvageable.

Both Amon/Vaatu and Zaheer/Red Lotus were fanficey.

They both come off as shoddy attempts to draw out the show after Amon got blown up. Kuvira in comparison comes off as at least a little bit more inspired. Even if she was mishandled.

I did wonder where that guru came from…

I thought that the airbenders were based if not on skin color the teachings and lifestyle of indian monks. Or was it chinese?
I was thinking it would possibly be based on a pseudo european/viking culture that used words as power, indian/mayan culture that used shamanistic/nature powers to start with. It might be cool

Tibetan. Tibetan monks. In looks and beliefs.
And the problem with using different powers is that it might pove away from being Avatar. I think a better way of doing it would be having different forms of the four elements, to mimic the difference in fighting styles.

Amon started out as an interesting villain because he had somewhat of a point- benders did have an advantage over non-benders. But then they just made him a crazy powerful waterbender who hated benders for no good reason other than daddy issues.
I think Kuvira could've been more interesting than him, but the writers didn't handle her correctly and she fell flat.

The only problem with that premise is that in Korra benders get the shit end of the stick every time. In their world firebenders work at power plants shooting lighting into rods. If they're not doing physical labor they're fighting in the arena for the entertainment of non-benders. Most of the police officers are benders, putting them at significantly more risk. The "benders have too much power" plot doesn't work in an industrialized world since all the advantages bending grants can be replicated or outperformed by new technology. If they'd set the series in a time period more like the early-mid 1800s where things like trains and electricity existed but not cars or portable batteries or combustion engines then you'd have more of an argument for benders having an advantage.

I think it might have made more sense if they spent some time actually interacting with Republic city, instead of wasting the entire series of a shitty sports tournament arc.

Like, if we saw that non-benders couldn't get jobs at restaurants because they only hire Waterbenders and Firebenders. Or the the construction industry was shown to be completely controlled by an insular group of prejudiced Earthbenders. Or if there was some line about all the city council members having some background that tied them to prestigious bending academies where they forged powerful social connections that netted them a guaranteed cushy lifestyle.

Y'know.. actually doing shit that mirrors real life, in some small way. Actual social commentary.

Instead, they half-assed it and almost made it a gun control allegory in the weirdest way possible
The fuck were they thinking?
Oh, that's right.. they weren't, because Aaron Ehasz had nothing to do with this series and couldn't stop them from being retarded.

I actually drew a closer line to the idea of the poor(nonbenders) hating the privileged rich(benders). In fact, it seemed so close to mirroring the liberal left I am shocked Nick actually let it air. They really must not be self aware at all

Seemed like the whole thing was a really, really half-assed knockoff of X-Men. And the writers had justified it to themselves but forgot to actually communicate it to the audience.

Everything I hear of Korra sounds like they either took too much time on it and got caught up in their own writing and forgot to actually make it coherent for the audience, or rushed it and failed to bring the threads together.

Uh what? If benders get the shit end of the stick every time, then the non-benders must be getting the digested and regurgitated shit end of the stick every time.

Assuming all else is equal, a bender is going to have an advantage over a non-bender.

That's the point Amon should've kept.

I still can't get over how badly that whole thing was treated. The poor fucks rallied against that treatment and were beaten and tried like terrorists and all given fucking curfews, Korra beat up their leader and exposed him as a bender, and then suddenly it was all fine and dandy. No one ever did anything to help them. Nothing more was ever said about them other than the non-bender president that hates Korra's guts.

It doesn't work even if you stick to the technology we saw in TLA since only the Fire Nation and Air Nomads could be said to be societies where Benders bloat up on positions in military command, central authority, etc.

It was, insofar they were doing the "use some superpowered humans or fantastic creatures" as a stand-in for Blacks/Gays/Jews/The Bourgeois/Whatever or otherwise be victims of waycis/saxcis/jealous/whatever Whiteys/Whitey Men/Humans.

And yet, Raiko ended up coming off as a capable leader having to deal with a spoiled girl and her helpers. All considered I can't list any plans he had that warranted objections.

Such nice ideas in this thread, wish we could buy the rights and do this great series justice.
Korra would be non-canon of course

Fucking no.

Avatar has elements of borrowing from non-Asian sources, but the setting is pretty much all kung fu and sushi. Implementing any of the ideas suggested would wreck the series beyond imagining, and is utterly, utterly retarded.

The funny thing is, Korra didn't even do shit, Amon technically exposed himself.

Amon sure turned out to be a train wreck didn't he?

Amon being Cabbage Guy's descendant would have been a superior twist.

...

They shouldn't have killed him and Equalist movement off when they did.

An idea for a better Amon that pops up is having him as a spurit of strife in humanoid form.

i dunno why she decided to fight katara though, the show did demonstrate multiple times that Katara could kick Azula's ass in a 1on1 (only for Azula to get saved at the last moment by somebody else).
granted, Azula wasn't exactly sane at that point

And desperate. Don't forget desperate.