Why didn't the Eagles simply carry Frodo and the One Ring into Mordor and drop the Ring in Mount Doom?

yeah exactly

Didn't the Germans have an Eagle as their symbol?

Most of Europe had eagle as a symbol at some point.

Because the Eye is equipped with anti-aircraft missiles.

I know you're memeing like it's some snarky teen question, but the answer is appalling and you're obviously a faggot for pretending it isn't. It's because the nazguls' fellbeasts would rape they eagles any day.

Those orcs seem genuinely sympathetic.

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The poor guys did nothing wrong.

what is that thing the guy is holding?

Except they fought the eagles at one point, and they'd have been able to get to mt doom before the fucking nazguls could even reach them.

Because there wouldn't be a plot.

So why didn't everyone launch an assault on Mordor then while Sauron is occupied, fly the eagles in?

I think you underestimate the power of Sauron.

The nazgul are stabled beasts. The eagles are faster than them. The eagles attatcked the nazgul at the Black Gate.
The answer is that it's a fucking plot hole. Case closed. The eagles are a literary device that are used sparingly, not exactly deus ex machina, but very powerful.

i heard from somewhere that if you read the books you would understand why

If you read any book you'd understand why. Because if you used a powerful device within the first hundred pages there wouldn't be any books.

Oi! Itz dem zoggin birdz again!

i dun get it

Because fantasy doesn't work if you have devices that magically solve the problems.

There's nothing preventing the eagles from lifting Frodo into fucking Mt. Doom in the books. Sauron is not omnipotent, and can't see everything all the time. And even if he could, the eagles are faster than the nazgul by the time the nature of the thread is determined, if it was determined at all (certainly didn't fucking determine that the two entering mordor were much of a threat.)

But mainly because Tolkien is human and it's a plot hole. That doesn't make the epic any less enjoyable.

have you read the books?

Yeah, I read them in high school.
Feel free to point out how this isn't a plot hole, but it's not something directly stated in the book. Which is why it's a plot hole from the starting from the Council onward.

Mission was supposed to be a secret operation that relied on element of surprise. That's why only 10 people instead of an army are being sent to Mt Doom. While flying, stealth and element of surprise are gone and you have to deal with being an easy target for felbeasts, arrows, spells, bolts, catapults, and boulders tossed by trolls. Eagles might be fast, but sooner or later they would get hit by something. Hell, Gandalf got in their good graces because he healed king of eagles who almost died after being hit by poisoned arrow.

You also underestimate Sauron's power. His ring alone was powerful enough to mess with minds of people who were in its proximity. Even millennia old elves, and Gandalf were not immune. Eagles would be no different. Few hobbits just happened to be somewhat resistant to the influence.

All of this, and more, was explicitly explained in the books and most of it was in the film too.

Sauron knew they entered Mordor immediately. It was, what, weeks until it was too late that the threat was actually determined?
no, it'd take a few hours for them to fly to mt. doom from the gate. distraction and you're golden.
Right, which is why they fucking attacked the Nazgul. Nah.

Again, plot hole. You can keep spinning it, but it wasn't even discussed at the council. The author is only human.

1: The eagles could have said no.
2: The eagles might have been hard for the band to reach to ask.
3: Gandalf might have known the eagles would be indisposed for a period of time, since he had just gotten a ride from one months before and never bothered mentioning them at the meeting.
4: The other members of the council either did not know about the eagles or were not on personal terms with them as Gandalf was.

There is no plot hole, you are just trying to create one.

lol bookfags

Everything I said is something you can glean from the movies as well. Characters do not automatically know about every other character, species, or know them well enough to ask them to help out.

Even in the movie this is brought up when Aragorn tries to suggest asking the elves for aid at Helm's Deep. Theoden rightfully pissed all over the suggestion, because from his experience the elves were stuck up assholes who didn't bother with the affairs of men.

A blobfish.

They very well could've, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility, and it's unlikely since there are no restrictions.
They very well could've, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility, and it's unlikely since there are no restrictions.
Again, not explicitly mentioned, leading to the next point.
Gandalf mentioned the rescue at the tower just prior to the plot being set up at the council.

The eagles are a powerful device. It doesn't make a good story, versus the development of hobbitses traveling on foot. Which, obviously, is a bit more of a risky plan than the eagles flying them for an hour or two from the gate.

It's not fun to pick apart good fantasy, but the fact is that this is a plot hole.

In fact, I'd say they're really too powerful. But at least they were used sparingly.

And it's not like this is the only fucking hole in Tolkien, there are at least a few more, but 'le eagles meme' is probably the most glaring if you have enough time to jerk off and discuss this shit on imageboards.

Except, you know, the free will of the eagles.

Except, you know, ring wraiths knowing the rings general location and tracking them. Remember the whole "we can't go near Rohan"? They took great pains to not be detected. Making a huge ass detour to the eagles on a chance they might help could have been fatal.

And in the story there is MONTHS between these two events. Gandalf didn't get dropped off by the eagles at Rivendell, he actually followed trying to catch up with the hobbits, stopping off in Bree and following after them. Again, for all you know, and should fucking assume, Gandalf knew the eagles wouldn't be able to help in the time frame the fellowship had.

You assuming that his not mentioning the eagles, or that the fellowship doesn't use the eagles, is a plot hole is nothing but a fabrication by your tiny mind. Yes, the eagles exist, yes they can and have helped out before, no you shouldn't fucking assume they would have or by them not doing so that it is a plot hole. You as the reader are supposed to employ some actual fucking intelligence and put the pieces of the story together, lending the benefit of the doubt to characters when appropriate. Gandalf knows about the eagles, and is not a dumbass, hence the benefit of the doubt for why the eagles were not used should be that Gandalf knew they couldn't be for that time frame.

Plot hole fags like yourself who try to invent plot holes instead of actually thinking are the worst.

That doesn't preclude mentioning it at the council, where everything was discussed to set up development.
They didn't need to meet the eagles until the gate, for example.
Which is why you've had to bring out a litany of easily disagreeable bullshit to defend it.
I've only read this shit in high school and I'm not a liberal arts fag either. It's a plot hole, that doesn't make it bad.
I dunno why faggots get upset that fantasy is imperfectly expressed. It's fantasy, and it's the product of imperfection. No need to get your panties in a twist.

So, you are saying that literally every possibility they could employ was discussed? You really believe they ran through everything they could possibly try, instead of getting the obvious ones out of the way and settling on the most sure fire (in a near hopeless task btw)?

And again, only Gandalf was on any personal terms with the eagles or know more about them than any other rare species. This is like expecting them to go ask the Ents for help when most of them would have been like "What the fuck is an ent?"

Gandalf knew them, and had been in contact with them recently, and doesn't mention them. So instead of giving him the fucking benefit of the doubt, you instead cry plot hole. I bet in real life people call you a dumbass for assuming shit all the time.

That's like saying they would have ran back to the shire for something. That's about how far the eagles and the gate are from each other.

so why did tolkien make all these OP characters only to do jack and shit with them?

I'm saying that it wasn't set up, and that the eagles are the most powerful device instead of the walkers, whereas the council deliberately set up the walkers.

That's the nature of fantasy.

The ents aren't a device that can literally fly to mount doom from the wall in an hour.

Gandalf visited the eagles after the Council, but before the walkers parted, as far as I remember.

No, it just wasn't set up, because "Eagles fly hobbitses" for an hour is less compelling than "hobbitses face danger and develop". I am so sorry to ruin Tolkien for you, fag.

Look, I get that you are a pseudo-intellectual who prides himself on all the mental masturbation about literature that you got from school. However, a good story doesn't treat characters and things as fucking devices. The Eagles are characters, not Gandalf's personal taxi service. They aren't at his beck and call. They aren't in Borromir's friend's list so he can hit them up for a ride, he doesn't even fucking know about them most likely. They weren't mentioned because they weren't relevant. That Gandalf knew them and doesn't mention them means that you should give Gandalf the benefit of the doubt as to why he did not.

The idea that has persisted that the reader needs to know everything and have their hands held or that it is a plot hole, is retarded. Plot hole should only be an accusation of last resort. As in if there was no logical explanation for why something happened or didn't happen, then it is a plot hole. I just gave you a shit load of logical realistic reasons for why the eagles were not brought up as a means to transport the ring of power on a near suicide mission, and all you can do about it is blubber on about literary devices.

Nevermind, he actually didn't, but he could have:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivendell
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misty_Mountains

And no Gandalf was rescued by one eagle, and dropped off so he could go after Frodo. He was in a hurry. He didn't stop off at the eagles' place and chat with all of them.

And yet literally the device saves not only Gandalf's ass multiple times but also just lifts Frodo right up.
I wasn't even being a faggot about it, and you were the one who felt the need to exhaust literally all avenues and resort to insults as an excuse for why there's a fucking hole in a plot.

Yes, the eagles decided to help out at the last minute. None of that changes Gandalf's motivation in not mentioning them or asking for their help. Again, some common sense and thinking on the reader's part isn't too much to ask. The Eagles are not his personal taxi service at his every beck and call, and when they rescued him from Saruman originally it was without him sending for them, and the same happens again when they decide to help at the very end. They chose to do so.

Yes, we know it is a story written by a guy, and thus certain elements of the story are there as a device to move it forward, but abusing this meta knowledge to invent plot holes is a disservice to suspension of disbelief.

It's not meta knowledge, it's knowledge held by someone on the fucking council. Not to mention, they didn't even know that Nazgul are now on winged, stabled beasts at council, so the eagles would've been an even better plan.
Ironic that you abuse meta knowledge in your analysis of why "MUH EAGLES IS NOT A PLOT HOLE" and bitch about how there's obviously some reason, yet nothing comes to fruition. Gandalf and the council could not have known at that point, and it'd have been an even better plan, although only slightly less risky than walking with meta knowledge.

Also, again, it needs to be said that autism of this level is just stupid.
Yeah, so there's a slight hole, who gives a shit? le eagles meme is tired.

Gandalf, again, who had been with the eagles recently and would know whether they would be able to help or not. He doesn't mention them, he doesn't mention a lot of other things as well. Why? Because they were irrelevant. In your mind the eagles are a literary device that could be used, so them not being used, or you not being explicitly told why they aren't used (despite a lot of fucking common sense shit), somehow makes it a plot hole.

I on the other hand realize that it makes perfect sense with what is presented that Gandalf did not believe the Eagles would help and didn't bother mentioning something irrelevant at the most important meeting of their age. I don't assume that the eagles were just forgotten, or put aside to make the story an epic journey. I assume that the characters living in that world know what they reasonably have at their disposal and what they do not have. Unless there is a contradiction in that I have no reason to assume that it is a plot hole.

You are an assumption making ass like most pseudo-intellectual consumers of media spouting the same stuck up bullshit higher criticism invented. "Oh, why didn't these free thinking people think of X or do Y, I mean I don't do B or think of C at various points of my life but fuck it the story has a plot hole because it didn't go as I the reader expected."

and are used, when it's convenient.
that's the question of the thread. you keep rambling on about 'reasons', but you don't even bother to speculate.
it'd be healthier for you to just admit that they're overpowered characters that are very convenient for other characters themselves, but not for the main plot.

just like there's a hole in the fact that the nazgul are afraid of water yet got to the shire. or saruman not taking the ring.

They are big birds. They are not overpowered, nor are they a requirement, nor are they at the disposal of the main characters. That they exist does not make them the personal airforce of Gandalf and Co. They do as they wish.

Sure they could have conveniently solved everything, but so could any contrivance that might have been written in. Tolkien could have written Elrond going with them and whooping ass all the way to Mordor, but that wasn't the story that was being told. He could have written in Gandalf the White being able to open a portal straight to Mount Doom, but he didn't.

The Eagles could have been written as faithful friends to the end and done what you think they should have, but that's not how they were written and their incidental helping toward the end of the quest shouldn't make you think that them not helping before is some kind of plot hole.

no one said they're the personal airforce of anyone.
the possibility exists to go to the mountains and ask them after the council, which isn't far. it seems to be open. it's internally a problem, regardless of whether you want to hand-wave it away.

there we go.
they weren't written that way, because the books would end at 1 or 2. the eagles themselves are deus ex machina.

you say the eagles aren't necessary, but they are. they've saved gandalf multiple times in hopeless situations.

that, and it just wouldn't be good fantasy. who the fuck wants to read about eagles lifting and flying several midgets to knock out the plot in a month or so, plus the hour in the end that it takes to actually do the deed.

What is your fucking point? Like I said any number of contrivances could be conjured up to quickly resolve the story. The eagles weren't written like you want, that doesn't make it a plot hole.

You must legitimately be retarded.

/thread

Also OP is fag but that's no mistery.

It's a plot hole. Your rabid fanboy defense of Tolkiens poor writing is unseemly.

It's not a plot hole, Tolkien even responded to that kind of asinine criticism while he was alive.

A plothole is something that is impossible, like how Slytherin put his basilisk in a girl's bathroom centuries before indoor plumbing was invented.

A question of why the Eagles didn't take Frodo to Mt Doom is not a plothole, because the story is not impossible in its absence.

There are explanations for why not: they would have been seen, and Sauron would have realized that the plan was to destroy the ring, something he never conceived someone would do until Frodo put the ring on.

Had he seen the Eagles and realized the ring was there (which he would), he would have deployed all the Nazgul to the entrance of Mt Doom. They almost made it there when Frodo was standing over it. The eagles would be shit inside the cave itself. The Nazgul would tear Frodo to ribbons.

Which brings us to another problem: you don't solve Frodo falling to the corruption of the ring at the last moment. Worse, Frodo had to leave because it was corrupting his party. Now he has a flying mount that the ring is going to actively try to corrupt.

In short, the Eagles could enter Mordor after Sauron and the Nazgul were destroyed, and the ring wasn't around. Before that, other options were considered, like dumping it in the sea, sending it to the Valinor, or giving it to Tom Bombadil.

The only option ruled feasible was a ground mission with a small footprint.

ISHYGDDT

lmaoing at ur life tbh

This one was excellent

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said the retard who think movies and television are good entertainment

#owned XD

Has anyone made a joke on the band the Eagles yet?

It's not exactly a plot hole but it is a problem with the story internally.
Sure, it'd be hitting you over the head with the set-up, but it's still an internal problem.
He didn't even realize it was on the 'spies' until it was too late.
And, the eagles are fast. Faster than the winged nazgul.
In the two hours it takes to fly to Mt. Doom?
They could always.
Every other option was considered except the obvious option which exposes the internal oversight.
At that point, which has already been said, the eagles would've been an even more optional plan. They had no idea that the nazgul were in flight by that time.

more feasible, rather.

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Nigger you dumb

What about them? The fact that Tolkien decided to use his deus ex machina only when it was convenient?
:^)

No u

Because all of the different races were based off of different countries and the actions they took during WW1. The eagles were meant to represent Americans who didn't want to get officially involved until the very end when the conflict was already almost over. The eagles were the same way. The eagles were the same way. They may have helped Gandalf because they knew him personally and owed him one, but that didn't mean they were willing to get involved in a massive conflict, until the very end at least when it pretty obvious who was going to win.

I thought Tolkien never intended for his work to have allegories and hated allegories himself.

I wonder who could be behind this post.

Yup. He expressively wrote in his many letters and in response to critics that it was purely a fantastical tale and held nothing in common with reality beyond the real myths and stories he was inspired by. Naturally one can't help but to pour your personal experiences into your writing but there was no symbolism or parallels.

This

YALL SHOULD READ SILMARILLION

The Eagles are an emissary of Manwë and might as well represent him in the Middle Earth. And Manwë is the head Valar(a god in the service of the demiurge Iluvatar) in the ME universe, similar to Odin.
THE ONLY ONE that could ASK for their help was Gandalf. NO OTHER. Since he was a Maiar in the service of Manwë, Varda, Irmo and Nienna.
Even then, Manwë would probably reluctantly answer since the Valar said that since the War of the Wrath they won't be meddling in ME again.

The hobbits, men, a dwarf or an elf couldn't have summoned them. Heck, I doubt that anyone besides Legolas and Frodo even knew that they existed.
But if you wanna criticize the fucking eagles, you should at least label them as a controllable deus ex machina. Tolkien was a little too good of a writer to leave such story breaking plot holes.

He can say that all he wants, but the allegories to real-world nations and events are clearly there.

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